I wonder why this didn’t make the press?

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Clearing the channel to ship traffic is more important than rebuilding the bridge. It just completes the beltway around Baltimore. We have 2 tunnels nearby that also complete the loop.

[Spellbound454]

I haven't seen any conspiracies on this, the film footage is really clear.
The container ship was massive and bridges aren't built to withstand that sort of collision force.

Thanks goodness someone had the presence of mind to close the bridge.... or it could have been a lot worse.

[billisonboard]

Apr 3, 2024 9:47:16 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I haven't seen any conspiracies on this, the film footage is really clear.
The container ship was massive and bridges aren't built to withstand that sort of collision force.

Thanks goodness someone had the presence of mind to close the bridge.... or it could have been a lot worse.

Point of clarification: Bridges weren't built to withstand that sort of collision force. There are new standards in place. Older bridges don't have the updates. www.cbsnews.com/news/francis-scott-key-bridge-collapse-impact-protection-u-s-bridges/

[chiver78]

let me share an example of one of these newer bridges, it had some interesting design constraints based on its location - Confederation Bridge, linking Prince Edward Island to New Brunswick in mainland Maritime Canada. 

I've jumped to the design/construction section for brevity, but the full article is interesting. there's some sketches to go with the explanation of those newer design standards here - link

[daisylu]

I was surprised to learn that there were not precautions in the water to avoid the bridge taking such a hit, that is negligible at this point. Also, this was a bridge to one of the biggest ports in the US. The boats that travel there to unload cargo are near 3Xs bigger than the biggest cruise ships.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

The bridge was built in 1977 before the port was expanded to except the large ships. Additional safety features were turned down during that time. This was under the 8 year term of Governor Hogan who is pro business. 

[Spellbound454]

Apr 3, 2024 10:06:57 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 3, 2024 9:47:16 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I haven't seen any conspiracies on this, the film footage is really clear.
The container ship was massive and bridges aren't built to withstand that sort of collision force.

Thanks goodness someone had the presence of mind to close the bridge.... or it could have been a lot worse.

Point of clarification: Bridges weren't built to withstand that sort of collision force. There are new standards in place. Older bridges don't have the updates. www.cbsnews.com/news/francis-scott-key-bridge-collapse-impact-protection-u-s-bridges/

I'm no engineer but that container ship massed in excess of a 100,000 tonnes travelling at 8 knots.

I don't think there is many bridges in the World that would have a chance against that force.

Be interesting to see what they come up with.


Apparently the "dolphin" fender (wood and concrete) disintegrated right before impact.

theconversation.com/baltimore-bridge-collapse-a-bridge-engineer-explains-what-happened-and-what-needs-to-change-226716

[billisonboard]

Apr 4, 2024 2:47:50 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Apr 3, 2024 10:06:57 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Point of clarification: Bridges weren't built to withstand that sort of collision force. There are new standards in place. Older bridges don't have the updates. www.cbsnews.com/news/francis-scott-key-bridge-collapse-impact-protection-u-s-bridges/

I'm no engineer but that container ship massed in excess of a 100,000 tonnes travelling at 8 knots.

I don't think there is many bridges in the World that would have a chance against that force.

Be interesting to see what they come up with.


Apparently the "dolphin" fender (wood and concrete) disintegrated right before impact.

theconversation.com/baltimore-bridge-collapse-a-bridge-engineer-explains-what-happened-and-what-needs-to-change-226716

Here is one solution that they already came up with and are utilizing: "... many newer bridges protect their piers with entire human-made islands." (If interested, I got that from your link.)

The issue is older bridges, newer bigger ships, and the money to pay for necessary updated protections.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 4, 2024 2:47:50 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Apr 3, 2024 10:06:57 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Point of clarification: Bridges weren't built to withstand that sort of collision force. There are new standards in place. Older bridges don't have the updates. www.cbsnews.com/news/francis-scott-key-bridge-collapse-impact-protection-u-s-bridges/

I'm no engineer but that container ship massed in excess of a 100,000 tonnes travelling at 8 knots.

I don't think there is many bridges in the World that would have a chance against that force.

Be interesting to see what they come up with.


Apparently the "dolphin" fender (wood and concrete) disintegrated right before impact.

theconversation.com/baltimore-bridge-collapse-a-bridge-engineer-explains-what-happened-and-what-needs-to-change-226716

not to be a dick, but the correct word here is impact, or if you want to talk in the vernacular, shock load.

and yes, you are absolutely right.  nothing is designed to withstand that.  nothing.  it would have to be so overdesigned that it would be cost prohibitive and massive.

this is a MOMENTUM problem.  if the freight is moving at zero knots it has no momentum and no impact.  

everyone knows the equation F=ma. another way of expressing this is F = m(dv/dt). in other words, the force that is sustained is equal to the amount of time it has to sustain it coupled with the initial velocity.  the momentum of that freighter was 800000 ton-knots.  stopping that instantaneously is impossible.  stopping it quickly is nearly impossible.  it would take MINUTES to stop that load in a practical way.

really the only thing that could have been done here is to get a fleet of tugs to assist before it hit the pier.

[billisonboard]

Apr 2, 2024 12:12:40 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Clearing the channel to ship traffic is more important than rebuilding the bridge. It just completes the beltway around Baltimore. We have 2 tunnels nearby that also complete the loop.

Is it necessary to rebuild it?

[pulmonarymd]

The bridge carries traffic around the east side of Baltimore on the beltline. The only superhighway through Baltimore has tunnels-hazardous materials cannot be transported through it, so those trucks used the bridge. All traffic would have to go west of the city. Traffic would surely worsen if it is not rebuilt. I-95 between Baltimore and Washington is already a nightmare. Can't imagine this making it better

[ken a.k.a OMK]

 Answered billisonboard question.

[Spellbound454]

 really the only thing that could have been done here is to get a fleet of tugs to assist before it hit the pier.

The pylon appeared to be hit at an angle as well... (a weaker point) So, add that to a huge impact .. and you have a clear explanation for the collapse.

I understand the container ship was escorted at first by tugs... then they left.

Some ports have their big ships escorted by tugs until they are clear of all the infrastructure .....  and if the bridge was rebuilt, that would have to be a given.


Seen a quote for the new bridge to be in the region of several billion. Its not like locals could could just reach into their pockets and find that kind of money.

  many newer bridges protect their piers with entire human-made islands

The ship has grounded

When I first saw this, I did wonder why it had stopped at all...... and how they were going to stop it sinking.

(imagine having to get all that freight off the sea bed, some of it hazardous)

but yes, underwater channels and islands which would only allow for exact navigation could be a solution.

Though presumably that area is tidal, so that might be a consideration.

[billisonboard]

Apr 5, 2024 3:43:11 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 really the only thing that could have been done here is to get a fleet of tugs to assist before it hit the pier.

The pylon appeared to be hit at an angle as well... (a weaker point) So, add that to a huge impact .. and you have a clear explanation for the collapse.

I understand the container ship was escorted at first by tugs... then they left.

Some ports have their big ships escorted by tugs until they are clear of all the infrastructure .....  and if the bridge was rebuilt, that would have to be a given.


Seen a quote for the new bridge to be in the region of several billion. Its not like locals could could just reach into their pockets and find that kind of money.

  many newer bridges protect their piers with entire human-made islands

The ship has grounded

When I first saw this, I did wonder why it had stopped at all...... and how they were going to stop it sinking.

(imagine having to get all that freight off the sea bed, some of it hazardous)

but yes, underwater channels and islands which would only allow for exact navigation could be a solution.

Though presumably that area is tidal, so that might be a consideration.

I can find nothing to suggest that it is "grounded".

It stopped because it's momentum was reduced to zero. I can find nothing to suggest that the watertight integrity of the ship was compromised.

Below is a picture of how man-made islands are used to help protect bridge pillars.



www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2024/03/27/how-safety-measures-protect-floridas-sunshine-skyway-bridge-and-what-can-go-wrong/