Is this enough if I die when my kids are still minors?

[raeoflyte]

Feb 21, 2024 13:30:09 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Feb 21, 2024 13:20:30 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

That's a good point.  My parents still wouldn't mix funds.  But if there is any concern for that they would I would go with a 3rd party. 

I would still leave the money to the kids in their names though, with your parents as the custodians instead of directly leaving it to them. Just in case there is a Medicaid spend down situation ever. 

Yes, what I meant is that she could leave a life insurance policy directly to the ex specifically for making life easier if she wanted to.  But that the money ear marked for the kids be kept separate.  

Assuming there is a Canadian version of SS benefits for the kids that would also be used as household funds for whoever is raising the kids, and the funds left be tagged for specific purposes.  

Of course not dying is always plan A.  

[minnesotapaintlady]

Feb 21, 2024 13:48:31 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Feb 21, 2024 13:30:09 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I would still leave the money to the kids in their names though, with your parents as the custodians instead of directly leaving it to them. Just in case there is a Medicaid spend down situation ever. 

Of course not dying is always plan A.  

That's 100% my main plan.  Before it was because I didn't want Carrot to live with Ex.  Now it's because Carrot just does not WANT to live with Ex. 

Plus, I just don't want to die yet. 

[raeoflyte]

Feb 21, 2024 13:54:12 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Feb 21, 2024 13:48:31 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Of course not dying is always plan A.  

That's 100% my main plan.  Before it was because I didn't want Carrot to live with Ex.  Now it's because Carrot just does not WANT to live with Ex. 

Plus, I just don't want to die yet. 

Me too.  Realizing that we haven't revisited our plans for several years and our old plans do not work any more is scary.  My parents are too old and too sick to be exposed to kids daily.  SIL/BIL became too conservative and religious (which is ironic), and my sister while perfect 1 day a week could not handle full time care to say nothing of her 11+ cats.  

Just can't die for at least 8 more years.  It's really the only option.  

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Feb 21, 2024 14:19:00 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Feb 21, 2024 13:54:12 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

That's 100% my main plan.  Before it was because I didn't want Carrot to live with Ex.  Now it's because Carrot just does not WANT to live with Ex. 

Plus, I just don't want to die yet. 

Me too.  Realizing that we haven't revisited our plans for several years and our old plans do not work any more is scary.  My parents are too old and too sick to be exposed to kids daily.  SIL/BIL became too conservative and religious (which is ironic), and my sister while perfect 1 day a week could not handle full time care to say nothing of her 11+ cats.  

Just can't die for at least 8 more years.  It's really the only option.  

I used to stress about this alot! 

SPOILER: Click to show

I didn't die!!

[TheOtherMe]

DN3's stepson receives Social Security because his biological father died just before they got married.  The money goes in to a fund for his college.

His parents received his 401(K) and they set it up so that will also go to the stepson.  

[geenamercile]

Put it all in a trust for the kids, with ex being able to have X percent payment from the trust for each minor kid.  Then have that payment switch to the kid at 18, until they hit 27 when they can dissolve the trust. Kind of like a retirement plan, but instead a death plan. 

[seriousthistime]

When my kids were in college, my will left everything to a testamentary trust with education expenses to be paid through a bachelor's degree, and the remaining funds to be divided equally when the youngest turned 25.  I obviously lived to see my youngest turn 25, so I rewrote the will at that point. 

[Sunnyday]

Feb 21, 2024 15:52:00 GMT -5 geenamercile said:

Put it all in a trust for the kids, with ex being able to have X percent payment from the trust for each minor kid.  Then have that payment switch to the kid at 18, until they hit 27 when they can dissolve the trust. Kind of like a retirement plan, but instead a death plan. 

Yes, when I get the mental bandwidth, I will do this!

[giramomma]

We need to update our will too.

We did our will/trust when the peanut was gestating.

I'm also lazy.  I don't want to redo our will every time another one of our kids becomes of age.

I don't want to saddle the older two with caring for the younger two kids if something happens to DH and I.

And, it could be the better option then uprooting the younger two away from their siblings and friends and being raised 1K miles away.

I dunno.

DH's answer is that he won't die. In a month it will be 3 years since I was diagnosed. It's actually very odd. Every year that I tick off, even though I'm getting older, anyway, it's another step towards knowing that my expiration date might not be so soon. So, there's relief in aging. 

[countrygirl2]

I have always worried about this. Our will is updated, but hubs and I think when we have to rewrite it to fit Washington law, we may have it so half of the remainder goes to grandson in a trust. As he says son won't need it and grandson likely will.
He is kind of worried DIL will unknowingly get help from some "friends" who will fleece her. She just has no concept of the laws here and I'm not so sure we understand it all either. But that is to be seen, may not be anything left by then.

We have seen attorneys here clean out trusts and the kids end up with nothing. Yep, they are in jail, but how does that help?

[zibazinski]

If you die, your children, if minors, receive a monthly check. Do not, under any circumstances, leave your ex husband any money for your children. They’ll never see a dime of it. Find a trustee and a successor trustee that you trust to dole out the money for college or trade school.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Mar 11, 2024 11:32:49 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

If you die, your children, if minors, receive a monthly check. Do not, under any circumstances, leave your ex husband any money for your children. They’ll never see a dime of it. Find a trustee and a successor trustee that you trust to dole out the money for college or trade school.

She's in Canada though.  Surprisingly, the US actually has a lot better survivors benefit for minor children.

They still would get some though.

[zibazinski]

Mar 11, 2024 12:15:11 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Mar 11, 2024 11:32:49 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

If you die, your children, if minors, receive a monthly check. Do not, under any circumstances, leave your ex husband any money for your children. They’ll never see a dime of it. Find a trustee and a successor trustee that you trust to dole out the money for college or trade school.

She's in Canada though.  Surprisingly, the US actually has a lot better survivors benefit for minor children.

They still would get some though.

The ex would no longer pay child support so they helps. I had my money so tightly tied up if I died before the kids were 18 that all he could get was my SS which as a poorly paid teacher didn’t amount to much. My Aunt held the purse strings and she’s definitely a Scot. Thankfully they’re all older now and that worry is over.

[Firebird]

Just chiming in to say that I totally get where you're coming from, OP.  I still have my daughter's dad listed on all my accounts.  He's listed as the beneficiary if I croak - actually, I think I did change it to list my daughter as primary and him as secondary, but the intent is the same. 

That money is for them to take care of each other.  

My former partner is still my family just as much as my daughter is.  I still love him, he still loves me, and he's a wonderful father so of course I trust him to do right by Babybird in the event of my death and of course I want to make that as easy as possible, financially speaking.  I want them taken care of, including his new partner/Babybird's stepsiblings if that's the case one day (and I hope it is).  In that event, the money from my estate would obviously serve the new family as a whole, not just Babybird and her dad.  That's perfectly okay.  That's how it should be.  

I might change it when she turns 18/21/whatever, or I might not.  Got a lot of years to go before then and many things could change.  But at the moment, this is our arrangement (he has his accounts set up exactly the same way I do and we share the same financial advisor who is aware of the whole situation).

I understand that this level of trust isn't normally present in divorce situations, but I'm very glad we have it and I like to see others who do too!   

[minnesotapaintlady]

Mar 14, 2024 7:30:52 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I understand that this level of trust isn't normally present in divorce situations, but I'm very glad we have it and I like to see others who do too!   

It isn't just about trusting the ex though.  A new spouse can really gum up the works, especially if they also end up divorced.

[Firebird]

Mar 14, 2024 7:44:17 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Mar 14, 2024 7:30:52 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I understand that this level of trust isn't normally present in divorce situations, but I'm very glad we have it and I like to see others who do too!   

It isn't just about trusting the ex though.  A new spouse can really gum up the works, especially if they also end up divorced.

Trusting my former spouse means trusting and supporting his choice of a new spouse (at least this is part of the definition for me).  

Sure, I get what you're saying.  New spouse could end up getting all the money and running out on them, and then my daughter doesn't benefit the way I intend.  And that's possible.  Anything is possible.  But it's not a huge risk, in my mind.  Babybird's dad isn't going to marry someone who would do that to them - and if he is worried about that for some reason, he can always put the money directly into a trust for Babybird and protect it that way.  

[Firebird]

Also, if Babybird's dad happened to remarry while I was still alive and *I* didn't trust his new partner to be on the same page with us about all of this, I'd make different arrangements. 

But I honestly don't see that happening.  Like I said, anything is possible - but I chose my current partner in no small part because she honors and respects Babybird's dad.  She knows he comes with the package and she's coming to love him in much the same way I do (because he's a great person). 

If she didn't get along with him or resented his ongoing role in my life, then I would not be able to envision a long term future with her.  Period.  I think most parents feel this way about anyone who can't accept their children as being part of the deal (at least I hope so).  I just happen to feel the same way about my daughter's dad, and this is a huge consideration for him too. 

We've always been and continue to be in agreement on this - partners who can't deal with our relationship as it exists now are not the right partners for us.  We're not about to invite people into our lives who aren't on board with being peaceful, collaborative, friendly coparents whose top priority is the ongoing welfare of the kid(s).  We don't necessarily need to all be best friends, but we do need to work together.  It's bad enough when we have to deal with people who aren't on board with this (such as DGF's former spouse, but that's another story), we're not going to create that situation on purpose. 

[minnesotapaintlady]

All I'm saying is it's really hard to predict the future and relationships change.  Nobody ever expects when they get married that they'll be getting divorced either, but here we are!  I have two ex's and there's been a lot of evolving the past 20 some years. 

[Firebird]

Mar 14, 2024 8:33:20 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

All I'm saying is it's really hard to predict the future and relationships change.  Nobody ever expects when they get married that they'll be getting divorced either, but here we are!  I have two ex's and there's been a lot of evolving the past 20 some years. 

Absolutely, things could totally change and I'm willing to adjust if that happens.  I hope it doesn't, though (and it hasn't so far, but it's only been about nine months so I acknowledge that we're fairly early days still). 

[minnesotapaintlady]

Mar 14, 2024 8:45:52 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Mar 14, 2024 8:33:20 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

All I'm saying is it's really hard to predict the future and relationships change.  Nobody ever expects when they get married that they'll be getting divorced either, but here we are!  I have two ex's and there's been a lot of evolving the past 20 some years. 

Absolutely, things could totally change and I'm willing to adjust if that happens.  I hope it doesn't, though (and it hasn't so far, but it's only been about nine months so I acknowledge that we're fairly early days still). 

You can't adjust if you're dead though!  You get hit by a bus tomorrow and 3 years later he takes up with someone that has totally different ideas of how to spend Baby Bird's (your) money. 

Not trying to be negative, but it's the reason trusts exist.

[Firebird]

I mean yes... I can't control what Babybird's dad chooses to do after I'm dead, that is true. Hopefully I'll have other things to think about at that point. If I'm still trying to control what he does from the afterlife, I would say that means I have pretty major control issues 🤣

I wouldn't be able to control what my parents do with my money either (or anyone else who is supposed to be using it for Babybird's good). Or even what Babybird does when it becomes hers. She can take it to Vegas and put it all on red if she feels the need.

I wouldn't leave the money with anyone I didn't trust to do right by her and my former spouse is in that category. That doesn't mean he'll do exactly what I would do with it, but it does mean I expect and trust him to do what HE thinks is right for the two of them.

[raeoflyte]

I would want to protect college/launching funds. If I'm dead, financial support is the only thing I have left to give so I want that to be intact for its intended purposes.

But if there is enough money, then some funds to help the new household I would see as likely to benefit my kids. And trust that I've chosen well and that their luck holds.

Damnit...now I'm wondering who on earth I'd trust with my kids if dh and I both kicked the bucket. There just isn't any great option.

[WannabeWealthy]

Mar 15, 2024 17:55:54 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I mean yes... I can't control what Babybird's dad chooses to do after I'm dead, that is true. Hopefully I'll have other things to think about at that point. If I'm still trying to control what he does from the afterlife, I would say that means I have pretty major control issues 🤣

I wouldn't be able to control what my parents do with my money either (or anyone else who is supposed to be using it for Babybird's good). Or even what Babybird does when it becomes hers. She can take it to Vegas and put it all on red if she feels the need.

I wouldn't leave the money with anyone I didn't trust to do right by her and my former spouse is in that category. That doesn't mean he'll do exactly what I would do with it, but it does mean I expect and trust him to do what HE thinks is right for the two of them.

All of this "protecting" after death just seems weird to me.  All of this mistrust of ex-spouses is also weird.  There is absolutely no way to look into the future, let alone someone's internal consciousness to determine whether plans that we have for our kids will be carried out.  We don't even know how our own kids might end up.  They could become drug addicts or involved in a controlling relationship as well.

Life is about making decisions and seeing how the chips fall.  In the grave, you are no longer in existence so worrying about what will happen when you are dead is futile.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Apr 9, 2024 8:14:39 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

Mar 15, 2024 17:55:54 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I mean yes... I can't control what Babybird's dad chooses to do after I'm dead, that is true. Hopefully I'll have other things to think about at that point. If I'm still trying to control what he does from the afterlife, I would say that means I have pretty major control issues 🤣

I wouldn't be able to control what my parents do with my money either (or anyone else who is supposed to be using it for Babybird's good). Or even what Babybird does when it becomes hers. She can take it to Vegas and put it all on red if she feels the need.

I wouldn't leave the money with anyone I didn't trust to do right by her and my former spouse is in that category. That doesn't mean he'll do exactly what I would do with it, but it does mean I expect and trust him to do what HE thinks is right for the two of them.

All of this "protecting" after death just seems weird to me.  All of this mistrust of ex-spouses is also weird.  There is absolutely no way to look into the future, let alone someone's internal consciousness to determine whether plans that we have for our kids will be carried out.  We don't even know how our own kids might end up.  They could become drug addicts or involved in a controlling relationship as well.

Life is about making decisions and seeing how the chips fall.  In the grave, you are no longer in existence so worrying about what will happen when you are dead is futile.

Well, there is...that's kind of the whole point of setting up trusts.  And you might trust your ex, I most certainly do NOT trust mine. That's why he's my ex.

[WannabeWealthy]

Apr 9, 2024 8:25:38 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Apr 9, 2024 8:14:39 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

All of this "protecting" after death just seems weird to me.  All of this mistrust of ex-spouses is also weird.  There is absolutely no way to look into the future, let alone someone's internal consciousness to determine whether plans that we have for our kids will be carried out.  We don't even know how our own kids might end up.  They could become drug addicts or involved in a controlling relationship as well.

Life is about making decisions and seeing how the chips fall.  In the grave, you are no longer in existence so worrying about what will happen when you are dead is futile.

Well, there is...that's kind of the whole point of setting up trusts.  And you might trust your ex, I most certainly do NOT trust mine. That's why he's my ex.

If you don't trust your ex, then why would you even consider leaving him/her to adhere to your wishes.  The OP stated many times that she trusted her ex.  Yet, people are still talking as if she shouldn't.  To me, that's weird.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Apr 10, 2024 6:11:44 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

Apr 9, 2024 8:25:38 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Well, there is...that's kind of the whole point of setting up trusts.  And you might trust your ex, I most certainly do NOT trust mine. That's why he's my ex.

If you don't trust your ex, then why would you even consider leaving him/her to adhere to your wishes.  The OP stated many times that she trusted her ex.  Yet, people are still talking as if she shouldn't.  To me, that's weird.

I was responding to your statement that there is no way to ensure the wishes with your money is carried out.  I was talking about a legal trust, where an attorney or financial entity doles it out according to your wishes. 

I PERSONALLY would not want my 14 year old coming into a million dollars without a lot of guidance and gatekeeping and no, I do not PERSONALLY trust my ex to do that.  Not one bit.

[WannabeWealthy]

Apr 10, 2024 7:19:14 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Apr 10, 2024 6:11:44 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

If you don't trust your ex, then why would you even consider leaving him/her to adhere to your wishes.  The OP stated many times that she trusted her ex.  Yet, people are still talking as if she shouldn't.  To me, that's weird.

I was responding to your statement that there is no way to ensure the wishes with your money is carried out.  I was talking about a legal trust, where an attorney or financial entity doles it out according to your wishes. 

I PERSONALLY would not want my 14 year old coming into a million dollars without a lot of guidance and gatekeeping and no, I do not PERSONALLY trust my ex to do that.  Not one bit.

I understand your situation.. but the OP's situation is not the same.  She does trust her ex.  But yet, people are still trying to impose doubt with her decision to trust her ex.  That was my point.

[Firebird]

Apr 11, 2024 7:44:11 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

Apr 10, 2024 7:19:14 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I was responding to your statement that there is no way to ensure the wishes with your money is carried out.  I was talking about a legal trust, where an attorney or financial entity doles it out according to your wishes. 

I PERSONALLY would not want my 14 year old coming into a million dollars without a lot of guidance and gatekeeping and no, I do not PERSONALLY trust my ex to do that.  Not one bit.

I understand your situation.. but the OP's situation is not the same.  She does trust her ex.  But yet, people are still trying to impose doubt with her decision to trust her ex.  That was my point.

I'm with you, I totally understand that many people wouldn't trust their exes with the financial well-being of their children, but that's not the OP's situation.

I think people project all kinds of things when former spouses are involved.

[haapai]

Feb 21, 2024 21:07:48 GMT -5 Sunnyday said:

Feb 21, 2024 15:52:00 GMT -5 geenamercile said:

Put it all in a trust for the kids, with ex being able to have X percent payment from the trust for each minor kid.  Then have that payment switch to the kid at 18, until they hit 27 when they can dissolve the trust. Kind of like a retirement plan, but instead a death plan. 

Yes, when I get the mental bandwidth, I will do this!

I hope that you find that bandwidth soon.  You'd be doing yourself a huge favor by getting it done. 

It's not something that you want to be doing when you are doing chemotherapy.  It's not something that you'll want to be doing when your ex is remarrying, even if you have no qualms about their new spouse.  It's not something you'll want to be doing when your parents or siblings (i.e. your plan B folks) are showing signs of not being up to the task because they are in poor health, showing cognitive decline, or spiraling in some other way.  Bandwidth is kinda scarce when things like that are going on. 

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Apr 10, 2024 7:19:14 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Apr 10, 2024 6:11:44 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

If you don't trust your ex, then why would you even consider leaving him/her to adhere to your wishes.  The OP stated many times that she trusted her ex.  Yet, people are still talking as if she shouldn't.  To me, that's weird.

I was responding to your statement that there is no way to ensure the wishes with your money is carried out.  I was talking about a legal trust, where an attorney or financial entity doles it out according to your wishes. 

I PERSONALLY would not want my 14 year old coming into a million dollars without a lot of guidance and gatekeeping and no, I do not PERSONALLY trust my ex to do that.  Not one bit.

 I think trusting or not trusting the x is largely beside the point.

The focus should be to protect your childrens best interest in your final wishes. No matter what may happen or not to other people. Your x may die shortly after you do. Your x may die shortly after remarrying and the as yet unknown step parent may or may not take on the child rearing. Your parents may or may not be able to step up or step in. Your trusted x may have a head injury resulting in changed personality with low impulse control and new gambling addiction. Set up your affairs so that your children are protected with what asset you have for them throughout.

And how about for those who do trust their x - trust your x to be able to care and provide for their own child like millions of single parent do without the need for your funds. Check your social security statement and see how much the x will get monthly for the child through HS grad/18. Is that enough? Looking at my last social security statement from before I cracked 6 figures is from 2019. My minor child would have gotten 1600/month in benefits, they also would get covered by medicare if they can't get on x employee insurance, right? (looking at you MPL for the final word here!)

That is more than enough to feed and clothe and care for most healthy children, and for any rent/mortgage upgrade for a modest bedroom. It would pay for a few additional activities, but would not be enough for FT daycare. So take that benefit and add on if you think it is needed. Provide more while the child is preschool age, or more for HS for activiteis, or whatever. 

This could also function to guide and/or protect your x. If your x is the most humble and trustworthy or the lot - they might appreciate the guidance on how you want your money used throughout your child's life, saving so much of it for college, and then house down payment, etc. Providing extra during HS for extracurriculars, or whatnot. Also - what if super wonderful x is targeted or completely swindled out of all the money they have access to? or there is a judgement against them via court proceedings and they lose everything?

having a trust maintains a steady income for the support of your child. I think it is naive to just say your trust your x, life is not static nor are people. Focusing on the trustability of the x is a red herring. Do what you need to do to protect your kids if you aren't there to do it.