Men are from Venus and Women are from Mars

[WannabeWealthy]

This is a thread spawned off from an original topic in the "Your money" thread.  It entails differences between husbands being unattracted to spouses after several years of marriage and how mentioning the inner struggle among men would be out of place.

Me stating that "men are visual creatures" led to personal attacks to my character as well as being told I'm wrong.  Why should we avoid the obvious?  I have a sister and several family members that are female.  I have seen divorces and their reasons.  I've seen two people falling in love and then one spouse complaining about how the other spouse has become unattractive as if that shouldn't be.

Why do we deny that attraction isn't an option by stating it's a choice?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

You were "attacked" as you put it because you decided to have this debate on a thread where a poster was very open about the fact that she is recovering from an upsetting divorce and trying to get her life back in order.

Here comes your smug ass to kick her while she is down insisting that her husband was right to divorce her if she wasn't fixing what was unattractive about her.

Have all the opinions you want just don't come stomping in mansplaining that women deserve to end up divorced if we don't keep up our appearances for our husbands.  Meanwhile the said husband has a pot belly and doesn't exactly sound like he took any care to make himself attractive but that's not his "job" according to you since apparently women aren't visual creatures like men are.

There are plenty of other places both on this board and elsewhere you can be free to spread your misogyny.  It doesn't need to be that particular thread.

It's called empathy.  Try it sometime.


ETA: And to answer your question I've had two kids.  DH and I met when I was 20.  I am now 40.   Of course I do not look like I did when I was 20 nor am I going to go through the expense to try to do so.  If he divorced me for that then he is not the man I thought I married. 

Especially considering he was overweight and was going prematurely bald/grey when we met.   He is not REMOTELY close to what he looked like in his 20s.   What kind of POS human being am I to throw away everything we have because he looks like a normal 50 year old man?

We married each other for far more than our appearances.  Appearances that unless you want to look like Joan Rivers or the living Ken doll are going to change eventually.  You cannot stop time from progressing.

We've been married 15 years.  If he's willing to throw that away because I don't have a cute perky flat stomach anymore then he's more than welcome to.  Good luck finding a hot 20 something that'll want him.  He's not wealthy like Trump and can have one shipped fresh from Eastern Europe for him.

[Opti]

Jan 15, 2024 11:55:01 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

This is a thread spawned off from an original topic in the "Your money" thread.  It entails differences between husbands being unattracted to spouses after several years of marriage and how mentioning the inner struggle among men would be out of place.

Me stating that "men are visual creatures" led to personal attacks to my character as well as being told I'm wrong.  Why should we avoid the obvious?  I have a sister and several family members that are female.  I have seen divorces and their reasons.  I've seen two people falling in love and then one spouse complaining about how the other spouse has become unattractive as if that shouldn't be.

Why do we deny that attraction isn't an option by stating it's a choice?

You realize your personal experience is very localized I hope. I have read the book you reference and several of the books by John Gray. I also read books from his first wife.


www.ebay.com/itm/392225289031?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1WdZUSHIxTy-a7erZ_bGGxw40&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=392225289031&targetid=4581046492584087&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=603247544&mkgroupid=1239150598504493&rlsatarget=pla-4581046492584087&abcId=9316119&merchantid=51291&msclkid=c3b4747272a711937a8911d716e9b3fd

Attraction is a reaction that does not have to be acted on. (Opti) Any one can learn to modify or manage their attractions including men. Having the visual click in first is no excuse. Otherwise you should be out there supporting pedophiles because they can't help their attraction or rapists if you decide its OK for men or anyone in power to take without permission.

Who I was attracted to in my twenties and who I am attracted to in the recent past has evolved. In spite of men being visual creatures as you put it, many leave the high maintenance looks only woman for greener pastures after living with that type of person. So even for men, visual or not, it is not looks only. 

And gay men realize if much of your focus in on looks, you need to be very equivalent in many cases if its going to stick. And that's what you seem to be missing. Is it your programming? It wouldn't be surprising that a woman who got forced to have a bad body by the act of childbirth might be less attracted to a man who intentionally over drinks beer and develops a beer belly. Imagine, a person who wrecked their body by their own choice feels justified to exclaim how you are less attractive since your body got wrecked cuz childbirth. The woman's body is going to change during pregnancy and after. Despite the glossy magazine spreads it is not usual for one to return to a pre first pregnancy body. The celebs can pay trainers and get plastic surgery because they can afford it. Not in the cards for many other people with less funding and fewer resources.

[busymom]

I'm sure I would be attacked as being shallow in the relationship I have with my husband if I said I was leaving him because he is losing his hair.  In fact, most of it is gone.  But, I'm a mature human being, and I noticed when I was dating him that most of the men in his family lost their hair.  It doesn't change who he is.  He is the same thoughtful, funny guy I married.  You have to allow for changes as you age if you want to be married for the long haul.  I know I'm not the same girl who married him many years ago, but DH supports me and encourages me (at least, most of the time).  DH has NEVER criticized my body.  And seriously, would anyone want to be married to someone like Trump, who is never happy with the woman they have, and always looking to "trade younger"?  I'd rather have the balding guy who has my back, thank you very much.  And yes, while younger men might make interesting eye candy at times, I'd rather have "old faithful" by my side.  You have to look at the entire package when you're married, not focus on "what they used to look like".  None of us looks as good as we did in our twenties.  

[Opti]

I was wrong about the first wife, it was Barbara De Angelis. I haven't followed his books or him since b4 the turn of the century. So my knowledge of him and his philosophy is dated. I always tossed out what seemed not right to me like I do with anything I read.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gray_(American_author)

Criticism

In 2002, author Julia T. Wood published a critical response to Gray's portrayals of men and women in Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus.[20] In 2007 Deborah Cameron published a book-length critique of Gray, and other self-help ventures premised on gender difference stereotypes, in The Myth of Mars and Venus: Do Men and Women Really Speak Different Languages?[21]



Gray was accused of borrowing from the work of author Deborah Tannen and he acknowledges some similarities but says, "I was teaching those ideas before I'd heard of her" and that he did not read her book.[22] Other critics have accused Gray of limiting human psychology to stereotypes.[5][23][24][25][26]



Personal life

Gray married self-help author Barbara De Angelis. They divorced in 1984. Gray married his second wife, Bonnie, in 1986; she died of cancer in 2018.[27]

Publications

In 1992, Gray published Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus, which has sold more than 15 million copies[8][10] and, according to a CNN report, it was the "highest ranked work of non-fiction" of the 1990s.[11] The book has been published in more than 40 languages.[2][12]

[WannabeWealthy]

Jan 15, 2024 12:06:51 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

You were "attacked" as you put it because you decided to have this debate on a thread where a poster was very open about the fact that she is recovering from an upsetting divorce and trying to get her life back in order.

Here comes your smug ass to kick her while she is down insisting that her husband was right to divorce her if she wasn't fixing what was unattractive about her.

Have all the opinions you want just don't come stomping in mansplaining that women deserve to end up divorced if we don't keep up our appearances for our husbands.  Meanwhile the said husband has a pot belly and doesn't exactly sound like he took any care to make himself attractive but that's not his "job" according to you since apparently women aren't visual creatures like men are.

There are plenty of other places both on this board and elsewhere you can be free to spread your misogyny.  It doesn't need to be that particular thread.

It's called empathy.  Try it sometime.


ETA: And to answer your question I've had two kids.  DH and I met when I was 20.  I am now 40.   Of course I do not look like I did when I was 20 nor am I going to go through the expense to try to do so.  If he divorced me for that then he is not the man I thought I married. 

Especially considering he was overweight and was going prematurely bald/grey when we met.   He is not REMOTELY close to what he looked like in his 20s.   What kind of POS human being am I to throw away everything we have because he looks like a normal 50 year old man?

We've been married 15 years.  If he's willing to throw that away because I don't have a cute perky flat stomach anymore then he's more than welcome to.  Good luck finding a hot 20 something that'll want him.  He's not wealthy like Trump and have one shipped fresh from Eastern Europe for him.

I never once told her that her husband was right to divorce her!  I specifically talked about understanding the unattractiveness of a physical feature in people.

Why am I being "smug"?  Just because I mentioned it?

[WannabeWealthy]

Jan 15, 2024 12:11:18 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jan 15, 2024 11:55:01 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

This is a thread spawned off from an original topic in the "Your money" thread.  It entails differences between husbands being unattracted to spouses after several years of marriage and how mentioning the inner struggle among men would be out of place.

Me stating that "men are visual creatures" led to personal attacks to my character as well as being told I'm wrong.  Why should we avoid the obvious?  I have a sister and several family members that are female.  I have seen divorces and their reasons.  I've seen two people falling in love and then one spouse complaining about how the other spouse has become unattractive as if that shouldn't be.

Why do we deny that attraction isn't an option by stating it's a choice?

You realize your personal experience is very localized I hope. I have read the book you reference and several of the books by John Gray. I also read books from his first wife.


www.ebay.com/itm/392225289031?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1WdZUSHIxTy-a7erZ_bGGxw40&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=392225289031&targetid=4581046492584087&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=603247544&mkgroupid=1239150598504493&rlsatarget=pla-4581046492584087&abcId=9316119&merchantid=51291&msclkid=c3b4747272a711937a8911d716e9b3fd

Attraction is a reaction that does not have to be acted on. (Opti) Any one can learn to modify or manage their attractions including men. Having the visual click in first is no excuse. Otherwise you should be out there supporting pedophiles because they can't help their attraction or rapists if you decide its OK for men or anyone in power to take without permission.

Who I was attracted to in my twenties and who I am attracted to in the recent past has evolved. In spite of men being visual creatures as you put it, many leave the high maintenance looks only woman for greener pastures after living with that type of person. So even for men, visual or not, it is not looks only. 

And gay men realize if much of your focus in on looks, you need to be very equivalent in many cases if its going to stick. And that's what you seem to be missing. Is it your programming? It wouldn't be surprising that a woman who got forced to have a bad body by the act of childbirth might be less attracted to a man who intentionally over drinks beer and develops a beer belly. Imagine, a person who wrecked their body by their own choice feels justified to exclaim how you are less attractive since your body got wrecked cuz childbirth. The woman's body is going to change during pregnancy and after. Despite the glossy magazine spreads it is not usual for one to return to a pre first pregnancy body. The celebs can pay trainers and get plastic surgery because they can afford it. Not in the cards for many other people with less funding and fewer resources.

I think people here are totally misunderstanding what I'm trying to say and quickly taking offense for nothing.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  That actually means something.

If I'm out by myself in public, I'm not going to be attracted to 100% of the women that are in the world.  It's not by choice at all!  Some of the posters here act like it's s choice to be attracted to someone.  If you can agree with that statement, then you must agree with the statement that that same woman can become attractive or unattractive over time.  It can go both ways.

It's literally NOT a choice how attractive we are to people.  We can't control it.  All I said about the husband of the OP was that he's not a scum bag for not being attracted to his spouse.  I then mentioned that I agree with him being a scumbag on how he delivered his message.

[chiver78]

and you don't at all understand why your mansplaining was inappropriate for that thread? did you really think that what you had to say was going to help? 🤦‍♀️

[busymom]

But staying in love with someone IS a choice.  If you give yourself permission to cheat, or leave someone, you've already decided not to stick it out.  Where do you think the line "for better or for worse" comes from in wedding vows?  You have to choose to love someone, imperfections and all.  There is a difference between lust and love.  Real love ignores imperfections and sees the best in the other person.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Everyone becomes "unattractive" eventually. It's called old age.

If you want to spend your nursing home days counting the notches on your belt and thinking the 19 year old CNA likes it when you grab her ass that's your choice.   

Sure there are things I may not like about DH and vice versa we're human but we didn't marry each other because of looks.  They may have attracted us to each other initially but by the time marriage rolled around we were beyond focusing on superficial attributes.

We see the entire picture.  He sees all of me not just my stomach post kids.  I see all of him not just his bald head.  When we see the entirety of who we are those things don't matter in the grand scheme of life.  I am attracted to so much more than just his physical appearance. 

Don't get me wrong I am sure a hottie would be fun but if we have nothing else in common beyond I find him hot that's going to get boring fast and is certainly not what I would base a marriage on.

You have every right to make that a hill to die on in relationships but as time goes on unless you got enough money you'll eventually find yourself the uggo no one wants to be with because the people you're picking are just as shallow as you.

I can't imagine that being a very fulfilling life but if it makes you happy go for it.

[WannabeWealthy]

Jan 15, 2024 13:25:18 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

and you don't at all understand why your mansplaining was inappropriate for that thread? did you really think that what you had to say was going to help? 🤦‍♀️

Perhaps not in hindsight.  I was only trying to defend the name-calling.

[WannabeWealthy]

Jan 15, 2024 13:32:46 GMT -5 busymom said:

But staying in love with someone IS a choice.  If you give yourself permission to cheat, or leave someone, you've already decided not to stick it out.  Where do you think the line "for better or for worse" comes from in wedding vows?  You have to choose to love someone, imperfections and all.  There is a difference between lust and love.  Real love ignores imperfections and sees the best in the other person.

Yup.  Agree on all fronts.  However, in reality it's not always so clean cut.  People are murderers, abusers, alcoholics, drug abusers, child molesters, financial monsters, etc..  So we aren't always sticking to that "better or worse" saying. 

[WannabeWealthy]

Jan 15, 2024 13:43:36 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Everyone becomes "unattractive" eventually. It's called old age.

If you want to spend your nursing home days counting the notches on your belt and thinking the 19 year old CNA likes it when you grab her ass that's your choice.   

Sure there are things I may not like about DH and vice versa we're human but we didn't marry each other because of looks.  They may have attracted us to each other initially but by the time marriage rolled around we were beyond focusing on superficial attributes.

We see the entire picture.  He sees all of me not just my stomach post kids.  I see all of him not just his bald head.  When we see the entirety of who we are those things don't matter in the grand scheme of life.  I am attracted to so much more than just his physical appearance. 

Don't get me wrong I am sure a hottie would be fun but if we have nothing else in common beyond I find him hot that's going to get boring fast and is certainly not what I would base a marriage on.

You have every right to make that a hill to die on in relationships but as time goes on unless you got enough money you'll eventually find yourself the uggo no one wants to be with because the people you're picking are just as shallow as you.

I can't imagine that being a very fulfilling life but if it makes you happy go for it.

Well said.

I only see this being a problem if the attraction to each person makes them not want to be intimate with the spouse.  If a husband wants to be intimate or a wife wants to and they can't find each other attractive in order to do that, then there is a problem.  And of course we see these type of divorces all the time (i.e. affairs).

[tractor]

I'm glad my wife doesn't look like she did in her 20's, there's more to snuggle with now 😊

Honestly, we all age, and the key to a lasting relationship is more than just how someone looks. I wouldn't trade her in for anything (although offer her $5 and a new pool boy, and I might be out on the streets....)

[chiver78]

Jan 15, 2024 14:48:54 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

Jan 15, 2024 13:25:18 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

and you don't at all understand why your mansplaining was inappropriate for that thread? did you really think that what you had to say was going to help? 🤦‍♀️

Perhaps not in hindsight.  I was only trying to defend the name-calling.

I'll go back and sanity check this, but I didn't see any name-calling. if I had, I'd have offered a mod warning. just a lot of supportive posts, offering advice on what may be better first steps. and then here swoops in this condescending mansplainer, offering up why she was inadequate and her DH was right to divorce. somehow I don't think this thread is going as you'd expected, either. 

as someone said over there - if everyone else disagrees with you, perhaps it's time to reassess your opinion/attitude/presentation. just my two cents. 

-chiver mod

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jan 15, 2024 14:51:06 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

Jan 15, 2024 13:32:46 GMT -5 busymom said:

But staying in love with someone IS a choice.  If you give yourself permission to cheat, or leave someone, you've already decided not to stick it out.  Where do you think the line "for better or for worse" comes from in wedding vows?  You have to choose to love someone, imperfections and all.  There is a difference between lust and love.  Real love ignores imperfections and sees the best in the other person.

Yup.  Agree on all fronts.  However, in reality it's not always so clean cut.  People are murderers, abusers, alcoholics, drug abusers, child molesters, financial monsters, etc..  So we aren't always sticking to that "better or worse" saying. 

Ending up married to a child molester does not equal to deciding to leave your spouse and mother of your kids because you don't like that pregnancy resulted in a poochy.

If you expect a woman to maintain her pre-pregnancy body so you can continue to be horny for her otherwise you'll divorce her then MAYBE just MAYBE you should decide to remain childless.  I'd recommend getting snipped just to be sure.

Cause I got news for you, unless you are the elite who can afford all the personal chefs and trainers money can buy ain't no woman going to look EXACTLY the same as she did pre-kids.  Pregnancy and childbirth change everything.

You divorce your wife over it you are a giant fucking asshole who deserves karma to come bite you in the ass.   "Well he's not attracted to it" is just "boys will be boys" bullshit.   Same with the "Well that's how affairs happen!".  Way to blame the victim dude.  There is no way to justify Sunnyday's husband.

[Pink Cashmere]

This is not directed at the OP, because I don’t know him or what he looks like, this is just something I’ve noticed about some (a lot of) men. They can be a 4 at best, with a pot belly, receding hairline, diabetes and high blood pressure and their equipment doesn’t work properly, and they dress funny, and think they deserve at least a 7 in a woman. A woman that is attractive and shapely, takes care of herself and her health, and has her own life and money. I find it amusing.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jan 15, 2024 16:26:18 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

This is not directed at the OP, because I don’t know him or what he looks like, this is just something I’ve noticed about some (a lot of) men. They can be a 4 at best, with a pot belly, receding hairline, diabetes and high blood pressure and their equipment doesn’t work properly, and they dress funny, and think they deserve at least a 7 in a woman. A woman that is attractive and shapely, takes care of herself and her health, and has her own life and money. I find it amusing.

Have you watched Kevin can F*ck himself on AMC?  I didn't sign up for the second season because I didn't want another streaming service but I caught the first season.  It explores this in the form of sitcom couples.  Where it's usually a not that attractive incompetent man child married to a smoking hot brillant wife.

It was GOOD.  I wonder how many men who watched it totally missed the subtext?

[chiver78]

that show was set and filmed around here, and it was fantastic. I found it on my regular streaming service with YTTV. highly recommend watching season 1. I have to go back and watch season 2, thanks for the reminder! 

[Pink Cashmere]

Jan 15, 2024 17:08:11 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jan 15, 2024 16:26:18 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

This is not directed at the OP, because I don’t know him or what he looks like, this is just something I’ve noticed about some (a lot of) men. They can be a 4 at best, with a pot belly, receding hairline, diabetes and high blood pressure and their equipment doesn’t work properly, and they dress funny, and think they deserve at least a 7 in a woman. A woman that is attractive and shapely, takes care of herself and her health, and has her own life and money. I find it amusing.

Have you watched Kevin can F*ck himself on AMC?  I didn't sign up for the second season because I didn't want another streaming service but I caught the first season.  It explores this in the form of sitcom couples.  Where it's usually a not that attractive incompetent man child married to a smoking hot brillant wife.

It was GOOD.  I wonder how many men who watched it totally missed the subtext?

No, I’ve never even heard of that show lol.

[Opti]

Jan 15, 2024 17:26:15 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Jan 15, 2024 17:08:11 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Have you watched Kevin can F*ck himself on AMC?  I didn't sign up for the second season because I didn't want another streaming service but I caught the first season.  It explores this in the form of sitcom couples.  Where it's usually a not that attractive incompetent man child married to a smoking hot brillant wife.

It was GOOD.  I wonder how many men who watched it totally missed the subtext?

No, I’ve never even heard of that show lol.

I have. I hope its popular enough it goes to DVD and I can get it from the library.

[Opti]

Jan 15, 2024 14:51:06 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

Jan 15, 2024 13:32:46 GMT -5 busymom said:

But staying in love with someone IS a choice.  If you give yourself permission to cheat, or leave someone, you've already decided not to stick it out.  Where do you think the line "for better or for worse" comes from in wedding vows?  You have to choose to love someone, imperfections and all.  There is a difference between lust and love.  Real love ignores imperfections and sees the best in the other person.

Yup.  Agree on all fronts.  However, in reality it's not always so clean cut.  People are murderers, abusers, alcoholics, drug abusers, child molesters, financial monsters, etc..  So we aren't always sticking to that "better or worse" saying. 

My midwestern values say you should walk and get the divorce. Then you can play with whomever. Lifetime marriage is great if you find a good enough one to go until death, but if you find you need to leave to save yourself, I personally think it's OK. I think ethically and spiritually its better than some Catholics who stay to together but think cheating or even killing your spouse is better than divorce. 

[Opti]

Jan 15, 2024 13:04:28 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

Jan 15, 2024 12:11:18 GMT -5 Opti said:

You realize your personal experience is very localized I hope. I have read the book you reference and several of the books by John Gray. I also read books from his first wife.


www.ebay.com/itm/392225289031?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1WdZUSHIxTy-a7erZ_bGGxw40&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=392225289031&targetid=4581046492584087&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=603247544&mkgroupid=1239150598504493&rlsatarget=pla-4581046492584087&abcId=9316119&merchantid=51291&msclkid=c3b4747272a711937a8911d716e9b3fd

Attraction is a reaction that does not have to be acted on. (Opti) Any one can learn to modify or manage their attractions including men. Having the visual click in first is no excuse. Otherwise you should be out there supporting pedophiles because they can't help their attraction or rapists if you decide its OK for men or anyone in power to take without permission.

Who I was attracted to in my twenties and who I am attracted to in the recent past has evolved. In spite of men being visual creatures as you put it, many leave the high maintenance looks only woman for greener pastures after living with that type of person. So even for men, visual or not, it is not looks only. 

And gay men realize if much of your focus in on looks, you need to be very equivalent in many cases if its going to stick. And that's what you seem to be missing. Is it your programming? It wouldn't be surprising that a woman who got forced to have a bad body by the act of childbirth might be less attracted to a man who intentionally over drinks beer and develops a beer belly. Imagine, a person who wrecked their body by their own choice feels justified to exclaim how you are less attractive since your body got wrecked cuz childbirth. The woman's body is going to change during pregnancy and after. Despite the glossy magazine spreads it is not usual for one to return to a pre first pregnancy body. The celebs can pay trainers and get plastic surgery because they can afford it. Not in the cards for many other people with less funding and fewer resources.

I think people here are totally misunderstanding what I'm trying to say and quickly taking offense for nothing.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  That actually means something.

If I'm out by myself in public, I'm not going to be attracted to 100% of the women that are in the world.  It's not by choice at all!  Some of the posters here act like it's s choice to be attracted to someone.  If you can agree with that statement, then you must agree with the statement that that same woman can become attractive or unattractive over time.  It can go both ways.

It's literally NOT a choice how attractive we are to people.  We can't control it.  All I said about the husband of the OP was that he's not a scum bag for not being attracted to his spouse.  I then mentioned that I agree with him being a scumbag on how he delivered his message.

Given he was attracted to her when he married her, he is not blameless either. Yes people both sexes can become more and less attractive over time. However, he broke the social contract by letting himself go. The OP had children. There is a huge difference with that.

While its said men are visual creatures it is also a trope that men will sleep with any woman or close to. So how do you reconcile that? Being less attracted to her after her childbirth experience is one thing, but not doing anything at all positive like things I and others have mentioned is a sign of a bad person. Like another poster said, maybe he should have made the active choice to remain childless and get snipped. 

[Opti]

Is it creepy guy day again? There was a guy down in the parking lot smoking in the dark. When I came back out after moving my laundry into the dryer this guy wanted to chat me up. The cigarette smoke was quite heavy to my nose when I walked in, so I wanted none of that.
I don't know what he looked like, but I just said Hi and something to the effect of not going to chat with you, don't like smoking and walked away quickly. Maybe I should wear my less bright jacket for my last trip. Ick.

[raeoflyte]

I can't seem to find the post in either thread now, but I think lurkyloo summed up the OP's thoughts in the original thread.  Along the lines that men can't help themselves so women should not only expect that attitude but pander to it, but men don't need to keep themselves attractive for their partners.  

OP never responded to it that I saw either.  

Along with the title, its all a bunch of tired of BS.  Men can help themselves.  Women have just as many physical wants and desires as men.  

If you're not attracted to your partner to the point that you would hurt them, just leave.  Because what are the chances that if you're that unattracted to them that 1 superficial surgery is going to fix it?  There will always be something else.  Attraction isn't a given, but especially when we're talking about relationships that span years if not decades its not an on/off switch.  

[raeoflyte]

Jan 15, 2024 17:56:29 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jan 15, 2024 14:51:06 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

Yup.  Agree on all fronts.  However, in reality it's not always so clean cut.  People are murderers, abusers, alcoholics, drug abusers, child molesters, financial monsters, etc..  So we aren't always sticking to that "better or worse" saying. 

My midwestern values say you should walk and get the divorce. Then you can play with whomever. Lifetime marriage is great if you find a good enough one to go until death, but if you find you need to leave to save yourself, I personally think it's OK. I think ethically and spiritually its better than some Catholics who stay to together but think cheating or even killing your spouse is better than divorce. 

I must have missed that day in confirmation...

[swamp]

Jan 15, 2024 18:24:44 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jan 15, 2024 17:56:29 GMT -5 Opti said:

My midwestern values say you should walk and get the divorce. Then you can play with whomever. Lifetime marriage is great if you find a good enough one to go until death, but if you find you need to leave to save yourself, I personally think it's OK. I think ethically and spiritually its better than some Catholics who stay to together but think cheating or even killing your spouse is better than divorce. 

I must have missed that day in confirmation...

Me too.  

[lurkyloo]

Jan 15, 2024 18:23:59 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I can't seem to find the post in either thread now, but I think lurkyloo summed up the OP's thoughts in the original thread.  Along the lines that men can't help themselves so women should not only expect that attitude but pander to it, but men don't need to keep themselves attractive for their partners.  

OP never responded to it that I saw either.  

Along with the title, its all a bunch of tired of BS.  Men can help themselves.  Women have just as many physical wants and desires as men.  

If you're not attracted to your partner to the point that you would hurt them, just leave.  Because what are the chances that if you're that unattracted to them that 1 superficial surgery is going to fix it?  There will always be something else.  Attraction isn't a given, but especially when we're talking about relationships that span years if not decades its not an on/off switch.  

You rang? 
(sarcasm) Nobody, at least nobody female, deserves a loving romantic relationship unless they’re 8/10 or better.  Because men’s visual needs 

What the OP is apparently too immature to realize is that marriage isn’t entirely about sex, or taut stomachs.  It’s choosing a life partner, someone who will be on your team and have your back.  Being deliberately hurtful to the person you are married to about their appearance means you shouldn’t be married, because you suck and they deserve better.

There’s a lot more, including the fact that the part where you’re doing it like bunnies typically lasts two years at most; that if sex is literally all you’re interested in then go ahead and change partners like shirts.  Just don’t be surprised when the PYTs start snort-laughing a “no thanks” bc you’re an old man with a sagging stomach and haven’t taken the time to build a relationship beyond sex-or adjusted your targeted range of potential partners accordingly.  You and your libido are not owed a sex partner that matches your ideal.

Signed, the 5/10 that still gets woken up more mornings than not by snuggle-groping from her 9/10 husband.  Oh, and as part of that building a life together thing…we can easily afford a plane.  Although if we wanted more than 3 of them we might need to liquidate some stocks before writing a check.  

[chiver78]

Jan 15, 2024 18:23:59 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I can't seem to find the post in either thread now, but I think lurkyloo summed up the OP's thoughts in the original thread.  Along the lines that men can't help themselves so women should not only expect that attitude but pander to it, but men don't need to keep themselves attractive for their partners.  

OP never responded to it that I saw either.  

Along with the title, its all a bunch of tired of BS.  Men can help themselves.  Women have just as many physical wants and desires as men.  

If you're not attracted to your partner to the point that you would hurt them, just leave.  Because what are the chances that if you're that unattracted to them that 1 superficial surgery is going to fix it?  There will always be something else.  Attraction isn't a given, but especially when we're talking about relationships that span years if not decades its not an on/off switch.  

I may have removed it as I cleaned up the thread. nothing is ever deleted, though. shoot me a PM for the keywords you're looking for, and I'll see what I can find for you. 😃

[Pink Cashmere]

A personal story….

The first time I went out with Mister, I was very curious about what was under the long sleeves of his shirt. He clearly had big arms, and I am very attracted to big, muscular arms on men, so I was curious as to whether his arms were big from muscle or from fat. 

I suspected muscle at the time, and eventually saw that I was correct. OOH WEE!

BUT by then, he had stopped lifting weights, so a lot of the muscle turned into youknowwhat since then.

And for this reason or that one, his body is not the same as when I first met him. He has gained weight, including in his midsection, but even with that, he is as attractive to me as he was when I first met him. 

I do fuss about the weight he is and has been gaining, but not to try to make him be more attractive to me or to try to encourage him to get back to the muscles he had when I first met him, I fuss because I am concerned about his health. His family history and his own physical issues are why I feel like he needs to be more mindful about his diet and exercising. 

I can fantasize about the muscles he use to have if that is just that important to me (it’s not). My commitment to life with him never had anything to do with how attractive he was, it was about how compatible I felt we were as partners for life.

Mister doesn’t like my natural hair. But we have an unspoken agreement that he doesn’t say anything negative about it to me. I’m okay with that. Because if we start picking apart each other’s physical appearance, I have some ammo I can fire back with. But  going there and doing all of that is just not conducive to a good relationship imo. This isn’t Instagram, with filters and shit, this is real life.