Texas shut down a border crossing

[Tennesseer]

Jan 17, 2024 11:34:56 GMT -5 scgal said:

Jan 16, 2024 13:43:52 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I will ask again. Were the Texas authorities who prevented the feds from intervening yo save their lives acting correctly? Simple question

Yes they were. They did not say do kit rescue them they just secured an area that the feds were using for weak policy.from what I read they already drowned before us knowing about it. If someone is in distress they should get help thru an approved access point

Death: They are in a state of clinical death if their respiration and heart have stopped. However, prompt medical intervention and CPR may be able to preserve the patient.

Drowning Victim CPR: Lifesaving Steps to Know

[Tennesseer]

Johnson: Now is not ‘the time for comprehensive immigration reform’

Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) voiced his skepticism of a deal being crafted in the Senate to pair border and migration policy changes with Ukraine aid, and said that now is not the time for comprehensive immigration reform.

Johnson said in a press conference Wednesday morning that while there has been a lot of “thoughtful and deliberative discussion and debate” surrounding the potential deal, he has not seen any final proposal and was “anxious” to see text of the proposal.

But he dismissed any “comprehensive” immigration changes.

“It’s a complex issue. I don’t think now is the time for comprehensive immigration reform because we know how complicated that is,” Johnson said.

“You can’t do that quickly. I do think it’s past time to secure the border. And that’s what H.R. 2 reflects,” Johnson added, referring to the House GOP border and migration policy bill that the chamber passed last year.

Rest of article here: Johnson: Now is not ‘the time for comprehensive immigration reform’

[djAdvocate]

why can't they do it now? it is not like they are getting anything ELSE done.

[pulmonarymd]

You mean they are supposed to actually pass laws. Who knew! I thought they got elected so they can appear on Fox News and get on the gravy train.

[grumpyhermit]

If they actually passed reform, how would they beat the drum that Biden did nothing on immigration? It's all optics and gamesmanship with them.

[djAdvocate]

it also undermines their argument that government is the enemy.

the only way to manifest that is to make it utterly dysfunctional.

[scgal]

Jan 17, 2024 11:47:33 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jan 17, 2024 11:34:56 GMT -5 scgal said:

Yes they were. They did not say do kit rescue them they just secured an area that the feds were using for weak policy.from what I read they already drowned before us knowing about it. If someone is in distress they should get help thru an approved access point

How odd. You are all about saving unborn embroys from abortion but okay with letting children drown.

No i'm not ok with children drowning. That is absurd. What i'm saying is the feds need to look at this as where are my access points and make sure they are equipt at those points. Clearly Texas made known this is no longer an access point. This is a failure on the govt no one else

[Tennesseer]

Jan 19, 2024 7:29:25 GMT -5 scgal said:

Jan 17, 2024 11:47:33 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

How odd. You are all about saving unborn embroys from abortion but okay with letting children drown.

No i'm not ok with children drowning. That is absurd. What i'm saying is the feds need to look at this as where are my access points and make sure they are equipt at those points. Clearly Texas made known this is no longer an access point. This is a failure on the govt no one else

But you don't care if children drown. Your exact words:

"If anyone drowns trying to come here illegally (meaning not thru an legal point) then that is on them we are under no obligation to use our resources to help."

[scgal]

Jan 19, 2024 8:19:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jan 19, 2024 7:29:25 GMT -5 scgal said:

No i'm not ok with children drowning. That is absurd. What i'm saying is the feds need to look at this as where are my access points and make sure they are equipt at those points. Clearly Texas made known this is no longer an access point. This is a failure on the govt no one else

But you don't care if children drown. Your exact words:

"If anyone drowns trying to come here illegally (meaning not thru an legal point) then that is on them we are under no obligation to use our resources to help."

You equate that to not caring if children die. I'd say it is the same thing as if a parent who does not put their kid in a car seat and they get into an accident and the child dies it is on the parent. I don't want the kid to die but the parent put them in harms way

[pulmonarymd]

Except in that scenario no one is preventing the authorities from trying to save the child. The problem is that you do not care(and appear to support) the decision by Texas authorities to not intervene AND to prevent the federal government from intervening. That is the problem we all have, and the issue you either are avoiding or agree with their behavior. And that is what is inhumane.

People make all kind of bad decisions every day, but we attempt to help them regardless. You are saying, sucks to be you, if you wind up in a bad situation and do not believe that the authorities have any obligation to help. That is the problem

[djAdvocate]

Jan 19, 2024 14:38:34 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Except in that scenario no one is preventing the authorities from trying to save the child. The problem is that you do not care(and appear to support) the decision by Texas authorities to not intervene AND to prevent the federal government from intervening. That is the problem we all have, and the issue you either are avoiding or agree with their behavior. And that is what is inhumane.

People make all kind of bad decisions every day, but we attempt to help them regardless. You are saying, sucks to be you, if you wind up in a bad situation and do not believe that the authorities have any obligation to help. That is the problem

furthermore, driving around without a seatbelt is not the same thing as attempting to reach a safe place at risk of your own life.

i agree that we are under no obligation to save the idiot that shoots themselves while cleaning their gun, or overdoses on pain pills, or any number of other things.  but i think there IS some obligation to look out for the interests of those that are desperate AND SEEKING OUR HELP.

"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

-The New Colossus
-Lazarus

[djAdvocate]

the problem with the bootstrapping argument is that not everyone has bootstraps.

in fact, some people don't even have boots.

[pulmonarymd]

Jan 19, 2024 14:47:15 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jan 19, 2024 14:38:34 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Except in that scenario no one is preventing the authorities from trying to save the child. The problem is that you do not care(and appear to support) the decision by Texas authorities to not intervene AND to prevent the federal government from intervening. That is the problem we all have, and the issue you either are avoiding or agree with their behavior. And that is what is inhumane.

People make all kind of bad decisions every day, but we attempt to help them regardless. You are saying, sucks to be you, if you wind up in a bad situation and do not believe that the authorities have any obligation to help. That is the problem

furthermore, driving around without a seatbelt is not the same thing as attempting to reach a safe place at risk of your own life.

i agree that we are under no obligation to save the idiot that shoots themselves while cleaning their gun, or overdoses on pain pills, or any number of other things.  but i think there IS some obligation to look out for the interests of those that are desperate AND SEEKING OUR HELP.

"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

-The New Colossus
-Lazarus

That is not the expectation of society. We expect help to be there even if we do stupid things. And I guarantee the people who are saying we have no obligation to save those children who were drowning would be howling in protest if we refused to save their relative who was overdosing

[billisonboard]

Jan 19, 2024 14:59:32 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Jan 19, 2024 14:47:15 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

furthermore, driving around without a seatbelt is not the same thing as attempting to reach a safe place at risk of your own life.

i agree that we are under no obligation to save the idiot that shoots themselves while cleaning their gun, or overdoses on pain pills, or any number of other things.  but i think there IS some obligation to look out for the interests of those that are desperate AND SEEKING OUR HELP.

"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

-The New Colossus
-Lazarus

That is not the expectation of society. We expect help to be there even if we do stupid things. And I guarantee the people who are saying we have no obligation to save those children who were drowning would be howling in protest if we refused to save their relative who was overdosing

Yes, that. I carry a dose of Narcan in my vehicle for "just in case".

[Tennesseer]

Everyone should read the complete article below.

What we know about the drownings of 3 Mexican migrants near Eagle Pass, Texas

The drowning deaths of a woman and two children from Mexico near the US-Mexico border have magnified the rift between Texas and federal officials over who has jurisdiction in that part of the Rio Grande area and how to tackle the migrant crisis.

The tragedy happened days after state authorities blocked the US Border Patrol from accessing 2.5 miles of the US-Mexico border near Eagle Pass, Texas – which was recently the epicenter of the migrant crisis. The area includes Shelby Park, a city park on the Rio Grande that Texas authorities blocked off with fencing, gates and razor wire – effectively denying access to federal Border Patrol agents.

But whether a lack of access may have played a role in the deaths is in dispute.

Those who died were Victerma de la Sancha Cerros, 33; Yorlei Rubi, 10; and Jonathan Agustín Briones de la Sancha, 8, authorities with Mexico’s National Institute of Migration said Monday.

And new details about what happened to them have emerged from a US Supreme Court filing – part of the Biden administration’s ongoing legal battle against Texas to regain access to the border area.

Here’s what we know and what’s still unclear:

Rest of article here: What we know about the drownings of 3 Mexican migrants near Eagle Pass, Texas

[Tennesseer]

Abbott's army is blocking the U.S. Border Patrol, aka the U.S. Goverment, from doing their job and deaths occur. And Abbott's army has every reason to lie.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 19, 2024 16:42:17 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Everyone should read the complete article below.

What we know about the drownings of 3 Mexican migrants near Eagle Pass, Texas

The drowning deaths of a woman and two children from Mexico near the US-Mexico border have magnified the rift between Texas and federal officials over who has jurisdiction in that part of the Rio Grande area and how to tackle the migrant crisis.

The tragedy happened days after state authorities blocked the US Border Patrol from accessing 2.5 miles of the US-Mexico border near Eagle Pass, Texas – which was recently the epicenter of the migrant crisis. The area includes Shelby Park, a city park on the Rio Grande that Texas authorities blocked off with fencing, gates and razor wire – effectively denying access to federal Border Patrol agents.

But whether a lack of access may have played a role in the deaths is in dispute.

Those who died were Victerma de la Sancha Cerros, 33; Yorlei Rubi, 10; and Jonathan Agustín Briones de la Sancha, 8, authorities with Mexico’s National Institute of Migration said Monday.

And new details about what happened to them have emerged from a US Supreme Court filing – part of the Biden administration’s ongoing legal battle against Texas to regain access to the border area.

Here’s what we know and what’s still unclear:

Rest of article here: What we know about the drownings of 3 Mexican migrants near Eagle Pass, Texas

“In responding to a distress call from the Mexican government, Border Patrol agents were physically barred by Texas officials from entering the area,” a DHS spokesperson told CNN in a Saturday statement. “The Texas governor’s policies are cruel, dangerous, and inhumane, and Texas’s blatant disregard for federal authority over immigration poses grave risks.”



“Texas officials blocked US Border Patrol agents from doing their job and allowed two children to drown in the Rio Grande,” Democratic US Rep. Joaquin Castro of Texas said in a statement Saturday.

ok.  i don't want to EVER hear anyone who is anti "illegal" immigration EVER complaining about SANCTUARY STATES again.  EVER.  

this is one step beyond what California does.  California law enforcement does not BLOCK the use of force by the INS or Border Patrol.  they simply don't assist.  what Texas has done here is....i think it could be prosecuted as malicious negligence.  it might even be beyond that.  rather than "not assisting", they BLOCKED officials from assisting.

sorry, but that is just not acceptable to me.  it should not be acceptable to anyone.  but at a MINIMUM, i want the whining about "Sanctuary States" to end.  what Texas is doing is FAR MORE OBSTRUCTIVE than anything we Californicators are doing.

[djAdvocate]

oh, and don't get me started on the DOJ's Uvaldi report.
Texas is a hell hole of neglect, imo.

[Tennesseer]

Snippets from the article.

The Supreme Court Is Now Complicit in Texas’ Armed Standoff With the Feds

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott is inciting a conflict between Border Patrol and the state’s National Guard that is inching closer and closer toward a violent clash between armed agents of state and federal law enforcement. The governor, as commander in chief of the Texas Guard, has directed his soldiers to block Border Patrol’s access to migrants, physically preventing federal officers from performing the duties assigned to them by Congress and the president. Abbott has received key assistance from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit, which cleared the way for him to obstruct federal border enforcement.

Tensions on the ground are escalating by the hour, as the Texas Guard—emboldened by the 5th Circuit—is wiring off an ever-greater portion of the border. The Guard is refusing entry to all federal law enforcement and to active duty service members. Even in an emergency, like the potential drowning of a migrant, the Texas Guard will not let federal officers or service members through to the border. If the Supreme Court does not reverse the 5th Circuit very soon, there is a real possibility that Abbott’s partisan stunt will spiral into open battle between the state and federal governments.


The current dispute is yet another consequence of Operation Lone Star, Abbott’s cynical effort to usurp authority over immigration from the Biden administration. It’s also symptomatic of the failure of our judiciary and the Supreme Court’s inability, or lack of desire, to check radical Trump-placed judges below it that issue far-right rulings with devastating consequences for democracy and human rights. The multibillion-dollar “operation” in question here directs Texas Guardsmen and state troopers to police the southern border and arrest migrants who cross over without authorization. It has utterly failed to reduce unlawful border crossings, though it has produced egregious acts of cruelty toward migrants; guardsmen have tried to drown these individuals, deprived them of water, and left them to suffer heat exhaustion in the tangle of razor wire set up by the state.

This case should be one of the easiest that the Supreme Court has ever confronted. For more than 200 years, SCOTUS has forbidden state authorities from interfering with the execution of federal law. Texas, abetted by the 5th Circuit, has disobeyed that foundational principle. It has done so by nullifying border policy enacted by Congress, which holds constitutional authority over immigration. Why has the Supreme Court taken so long to respond? Why did the justices not immediately freeze the 5th Circuit’s decision? Their delay may have encouraged the radical court, which allowed Texas to maintain a dangerous, 1,000-foot barrier in the Rio Grande on Wednesday. It seems unlikely that five justices agree that Abbott can void Congress’ commands. But what else explains the delay? Does the court’s 2021 decision to let Texas nullify Roe v. Wade suggest that the conservatives are open to more mutinous nullification?

Complete article here:  The Supreme Court Is Now Complicit in Texas’ Armed Standoff With the Feds

[djAdvocate]

are they complicit because they are not acting quickly, Tenn?

is that what the article is saying?

i am having a bit of trouble understanding it.

[Tennesseer]

Jan 19, 2024 17:54:29 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

are they complicit because they are not acting quickly, Tenn?

is that what the article is saying?

i am having a bit of trouble understanding it.

Yes. SCOTUS is sitting on it. What's the political makeup of SCOTUS again?

[Tennesseer]

'They failed': House Freedom Caucus member blames Trump and GOP for border struggles

An ultra-conservative member of the House Republican majority is laying blame for the surge of immigrants at the Southern border not at the feet of President Joe Biden, but on his fellow Republicans — namely, former President Donald Trump.

During a recent interview with Fox Business' Neil Cavuto, Rep. Chip Roy (R-Texas), who sits on the far-right House Freedom Caucus, took his party to task for failing to take decisive action on the border while they were in power.

"Look, this stuff matters. It adds up. I call balls and strikes. This is not hard," he added.

The 2018 legislation Roy is referring to is what triggered the federal government shutdown of 2018-2019, which stretched on for more than a month and is officially regarded the longest federal shutdown in US history. The origins of that shutdown stem from then-President Trump insisting that he wouldn't sign legislation to keep the government open unless he got an additional $5 billion for border wall construction.

"I would acknowledge President Trump failed along with Republicans Paul Ryan and the guys, they failed in 2018 to actually move a border security bill to tighten this so we aren't dealing with this crisis right now," Roy said. "They failed to actually get the wall built. President Trump signed 12 continuing resolutions — after he said he would never sign another one — if they didn't give him the money to finish building the wall."

Rest of article here:  'They failed': House Freedom Caucus member blames Trump and GOP for border struggles

[djAdvocate]

i am not sure i would use that word (complicit), but i understand the sentiment.

[Opti]

Jan 19, 2024 18:24:16 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jan 19, 2024 17:54:29 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

are they complicit because they are not acting quickly, Tenn?

is that what the article is saying?

i am having a bit of trouble understanding it.

Yes. SCOTUS is sitting on it. What's the political makeup of SCOTUS again?

Trump leaning? 

[Opti]

Jan 19, 2024 17:07:43 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

oh, and don't get me started on the DOJ's Uvaldi report.
Texas is a hell hole of neglect, imo.

Case study on how to treat underfunded people like crap in the US. (Texas)

[djAdvocate]

i wonder if ANY law enforcement present that day had a kid at that school.

guessing not.

[jerseygirl]

Have been reading that Texas agents stopped Border Patrol from helping the mother and 2 children who were drowning. Disgraceful inhuman etc

But, now DOJ report says these 3 people were already dead an hour before Texas agents stopped Customs

Inaccurate news blaming Texas agents who ‘stood by watching’ while the mother and 2 children drowned and wouldn’t let BP help the struggling family. But guess this wrong info gets hyped because it plays into the Texas v. Biden government image br]


www.nationalreview.com/news/doj-filing-shows-texas-did-not-stop-border-patrol-from-saving-drowning-migrants/amp/

[pulmonarymd]

Jan 20, 2024 14:33:49 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Have been reading that Texas agents stopped Border Patrol from helping the mother and 2 children who were drowning. Disgraceful inhuman etc

But, now DOJ report says these 3 people were already dead an hour before Texas agents stopped Customs

Inaccurate news blaming Texas agents who ‘stood by watching’ while the mother and 2 children drowned and wouldn’t let BP help the struggling family. But guess this wrong info gets hyped because it plays into the Texas v. Biden government trope



www.nationalreview.com/news/doj-filing-shows-texas-did-not-stop-border-patrol-from-saving-drowning-migrants/amp/

CNN article from same day does not definitively state that. Says the facts are in dispute


www.cnn.com/2024/01/15/us/what-we-know-about-the-drownings-of-3-migrants-in-eagle-pass-texas/index.html

Regardless of whether they were dead or not, the CNN article states there were other people who were in trouble, and Texas officials did not come to their assistance in those cases. The question is, does Texas have an official policy of not rendering aide to those in trouble? And if so, do they also have a policy to prevent the Feds from providing assistance? Is that in any way OK?

[Tennesseer]

Jan 20, 2024 14:33:49 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Have been reading that Texas agents stopped Border Patrol from helping the mother and 2 children who were drowning. Disgraceful inhuman etc

But, now DOJ report says these 3 people were already dead an hour before Texas agents stopped Customs

Inaccurate news blaming Texas agents who ‘stood by watching’ while the mother and 2 children drowned and wouldn’t let BP help the struggling family. But guess this wrong info gets hyped because it plays into the Texas v. Biden government image br]


www.nationalreview.com/news/doj-filing-shows-texas-did-not-stop-border-patrol-from-saving-drowning-migrants/amp/

Drowned people can be revived. Depends upon the conditions. Please scroll back to one of my previous posts in this thread.

[ripvanwinkle]

Jan 20, 2024 14:33:49 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Have been reading that Texas agents stopped Border Patrol from helping the mother and 2 children who were drowning. Disgraceful inhuman etc

But, now DOJ report says these 3 people were already dead an hour before Texas agents stopped Customs

Inaccurate news blaming Texas agents who ‘stood by watching’ while the mother and 2 children drowned and wouldn’t let BP help the struggling family. But guess this wrong info gets hyped because it plays into the Texas v. Biden government image br]


www.nationalreview.com/news/doj-filing-shows-texas-did-not-stop-border-patrol-from-saving-drowning-migrants/amp/

I'm glad the DOJ set the record straight. Of course any loss of life is tragic. Sadly this incident reminds me of 30ys ago a family friend died rock climbing. No ropes. Fell 150ft to his death. He knew the risks but did it anyway. Personal responsibility.