Student (and professors) demonstrations against Israel

[jerseygirl]

Lots of on campus demonstrations by students and statements by professors against Israel , anti Semitic and for Hamas. Although the pro Hamas seems to be intermingled with pro Palestine
I’m horrified and reminded of beginnings of Nazi state when Brown Shirts were demonstrating and abusing Jews. In NYC demonstrations have shut down bridges, Grand Central station and damages to NY Times building. Growing numbers of anti Semitic attacks on Jews and synagogues
br]
I see students as being naive and uneducated on history and being a shameful reflection of their lack of education. However I’m really appalled at the the professors and administrators who are older and have responsibilities

[Tennesseer]

Israel has gotten their pound of flesh from Gaza.  Death toll now stands over 11,000 in Gaza versus 1,200 in Israel.  Shame on Hamas for hiding under hospitals which Israel is targeting to drive out Hamas.  Not all Palestinians in Gaza want death to Israel.  At least they didn't prior to Hamas' October 7th attack on Israel.

US voices concern over killing of Palestinians as Gaza death toll tops 11,000

Israel revises down toll from October 7 attack to ‘around 1,200’

I am sympathetic to Israel's cause. I am also sympathetic to the innocents in Gaza. We must find a solution so this bloodshed stops.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 11, 2023 13:26:08 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Israel has gotten their pound of flesh from Gaza.  Death toll now stands over 11,000 in Gaza versus 1,200 in Israel.  Shame on Hamas for hiding under hospitals which Israel is targeting to drive out Hamas.  Not all Palestinians in Gaza want death to Israel.  At least they didn't prior to Hamas' October 7th attack on Israel.

US voices concern over killing of Palestinians as Gaza death toll tops 11,000

Israel revises down toll from October 7 attack to ‘around 1,200’

I am sympathetic to Israel's cause. I am also sympathetic to the innocents in Gaza. We must find a solution so this bloodshed stops.

if that is true.
Al Jezeera claims it is NOT true.  and has backed it up with first hand accounts.
it probably is not true, imo.

i could articulate WHY i think it is not true, if you are interested.
but the easiest way to illustrate why logically is who has the most to lose if it is not true?

[djAdvocate]

has anyone seen the protests in London?
massive.

[jerseygirl]

London has a very large Muslin population.
But I’m interested in why the large protests in colleges with generally small Muslin population. And administrations using weasel wording
Seems to uncover pretty strong bias against Jewish students. Also seem to have more aggressive anti Jewish Israeli even overlooking the hideous events by Hamas
Apartheid?? No Jews in Gaza lots of Muslims in Israel
Occupation? Israel abandoned Gaza in 2005

[djAdvocate]

Nov 11, 2023 18:29:28 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

London has a very large MusliM population.
But I’m interested in why the large protests in colleges with generally small MusliM population. And administrations using weasel wording
Seems to uncover pretty strong bias against Jewish students. Also seem to have more aggressive anti Jewish Israeli even overlooking the hideous events by Hamas
Apartheid?? No Jews in Gaza lots of Muslims in Israel
Occupation? Israel abandoned Gaza in 2005

the US has 50% more Muslims.  

maybe the smaller colleges are not as steeped in the American sauce as the larger ones.
maybe they see Gazans as human beings, not as deer, whose population needs thinning.
who knows?

go ask.

[chiver78]

Nov 11, 2023 13:17:33 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Lots of on campus demonstrations by students and statements by professors against Israel , anti Semitic and for Hamas. Although the pro Hamas seems to be intermingled with pro Palestine
I’m horrified and reminded of beginnings of Nazi state when Brown Shirts were demonstrating and abusing Jews. In NYC demonstrations have shut down bridges, Grand Central station and damages to NY Times building. Growing numbers of anti Semitic attacks on Jews and synagogues
br]
I see students as being naive and uneducated on history and being a shameful reflection of their lack of education. However I’m really appalled at the the professors and administrators who are older and have responsibilities

I've seen a lot of coverage of college protests here in the US, but I have yet to see a pro-Hamas one. can you share a link to coverage of what you're talking about? please and thank you. 

I have a very mixed and confused opinion on this topic as a whole, because I'm admittedly very ignorant on the politics and history of that area. zero part of my heritage is Jewish, and what little I know came from public school and a Catholic upbringing. but nothing I've seen in the past month has been pro-Hamas, and I just needed to call that out there. please provide a link/source. thank you.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 11, 2023 18:29:28 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Apartheid?? No Jews in Gaza lots of Muslims in Israel
Occupation? Israel abandoned Gaza in 2005

i just had to comment on this.  sorry.  it is a bit of a detour.

the population of South Africa in 1981 was 30M.
the black population of South Africa* in 1981 was 26M.

the Apartheid government (NP) was busily putting black South Africans into homelands.  as of 1981, four "independent homelands" were created, which had about 2.2M people each in them, ALL of which were black.  it seems clear that the objective, creating 10 of these, was to drive down the black population in South Africa* from 26M to less than 4M, while the white population continued to grow to a point where they became a majority.

so, yes. there are no Jews in Gaza, but that is intentional, and for the same political reason as it was done in South Africa: to make Gaza a "homeland" for the Muslim population, and make them politically impotent in Israel.  it is not a mere coincidence that this system resembles Apartheid.  it was copied from it.  furthermore, Israel and South Africa are pretty tight allies, even sharing military technology.  Israel was one of the few US Alliesto NOT join the anti-Apartheid boycott.

in other words, it is not just lefty liberal whackoes making this case.  there are STRONG parallels between Apartheid and what is happening with Israel/Gaza/WB.  the idea is to push Muslims into "independent states" and make Israel majority governable by non-Muslims.  i don't enjoy being that blunt, but sometimes it is really the only way to discuss these things.

i will entertain any disagreement.  fire away.

[djAdvocate]

PS- no homelands were created after 1981.  the international pressure just got too great to continue it.

[jerseygirl]

Not many ‘purely’ pro Hamas rallies but intermixed with pro Palestinian

But see links below

www.campusreform.org/article/yale-students-held-monday-rally-praising-use-of-force-by-hamas-during-horrifying-weekend-attacks/24150

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/college-students-justice-for-palestine-chapters-hamas/675640/

[djAdvocate]

PS- if you are wondering what united Israel and (Dutch) South Africa in the post WW2 period, it is CALVINISM.

specifically, the idea of "the chosen land and the chosen people".

the US also has deep roots in this tradition.  compare John Winthrop's "City On The Hill" to Reagan's similar speech.  that had to be a citation, imo.  i have never looked it up.  but it has to be.  which is why Reagan defended apartheid, imo.

we have a lot of learning to do, and we seem like we are in no mood to learn it.
nor the lessons thereof.

this is not an uncommon problem, by the way.  the only country i can think of that has done exactly the opposite of this is Germany.  they have "embraced" their awfulness with a degree of shame that i have never seen in any nation.  and they are the better country for it.  pretty much every country on Earth, including this one, has massacred it's native population to become what it is.  it is such a common thread that people like Trump look at it and mistakenly think it leads to "greatness".

[Spellbound454]

 so, yes. there are no Jews in Gaza, but that is intentional, and for the same political reason as it was done in South Africa: to make Gaza a "homeland" for the Muslim population, and make them politically impotent in Israel

It was part of the Palestinians wanting self determination under the Oslo accords.
Hamas does not accept the Oslo accords and wants Israel off the face of the Earth to make an Islamic state..... from the "river to the sea" contained in the Hamas charter.
What the heck, why not just go out and support ISIS, or Al Qaeda?


Many students just want an end to the fighting.
... but most of the protests, in London at least, are organised by Hamas.
with the students being what is termed "useful idiots.

There is even people from LGBT supporting the protests.... which is odd, because Hamas would almost certainly kill them as soon as they set eyes on them. 

Hamas do have bases underneath hospitals, they are also used to house munitions and combatants.
Under international law the hospitals lose their special status.

"The laws of war prohibit direct attacks on civilian objects, like schools. They also prohibit direct attacks against hospitals and medical staff, which are specially protected under IHL. That said, a hospital or school may become a legitimate military target if it contributes to specific military operations of the enemy and if its destruction offers a definite military advantage for the attacking side.



If there is any doubt, they cannot be attacked. Hospitals only lose their protection in certain circumstances - for example if a hospital is being used as a base from which to launch an attack, as a weapons depot, or to hide healthy soldiers/fighters. And there are certain conditions too."

www.icrc.org/en/document/ihl-rules-of-war-FAQ-Geneva-Conventions

[Tennesseer]

Nov 14, 2023 18:00:25 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 so, yes. there are no Jews in Gaza, but that is intentional, and for the same political reason as it was done in South Africa: to make Gaza a "homeland" for the Muslim population, and make them politically impotent in Israel

It was part of the Palestinians wanting self determination under the Oslo accords.
Hamas does not accept the Oslo accords and wants Israel off the face of the Earth to make an Islamic state..... from the "river to the sea" contained in the Hamas charter.
What the heck, why not just go out and support ISIS, or Al Qaeda?


Many students just want an end to the fighting.
... but most of the protests, in London at least, are organised by Hamas.
with the students being what is termed "useful idiots.

There is even people from LGBT supporting the protests.... which is odd, because Hamas would almost certainly kill them as soon as they set eyes on them. 

Hamas do have bases underneath hospitals, they are also used to house munitions and combatants.
Under international law the hospitals lose their special status.

"The laws of war prohibit direct attacks on civilian objects, like schools. They also prohibit direct attacks against hospitals and medical staff, which are specially protected under IHL. That said, a hospital or school may become a legitimate military target if it contributes to specific military operations of the enemy and if its destruction offers a definite military advantage for the attacking side.



If there is any doubt, they cannot be attacked. Hospitals only lose their protection in certain circumstances - for example if a hospital is being used as a base from which to launch an attack, as a weapons depot, or to hide healthy soldiers/fighters. And there are certain conditions too."

www.icrc.org/en/document/ihl-rules-of-war-FAQ-Geneva-Conventions

I am assuming the LGBT people you mentioned are in London/United Kingdom and do the LGBT folks support Hamas or the non-Hamas Palestinian people. There is a difference.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 14, 2023 18:00:25 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 so, yes. there are no Jews in Gaza, but that is intentional, and for the same political reason as it was done in South Africa: to make Gaza a "homeland" for the Muslim population, and make them politically impotent in Israel

It was part of the Palestinians wanting self determination under the Oslo accords.
www.icrc.org/en/document/ihl-rules-of-war-FAQ-Geneva-Conventions

it is not self determination when the determiner tells you where to go, and then cuts you off from the life you once had.

but sure.  blame the Oslo accords.

[Spellbound454]

 I am assuming the LGBT people you mentioned are in London/United Kingdom and do the LGBT folks support Hamas or the non-Hamas Palestinian people. There is a difference.

Hamas aren't a side show, they are the government of Gaza

So even if you hear from the health ministry, fire brigade, police or any official.... they work for Hamas


I did see an interview with some protesters who has never heard of Hamas and thought perhaps they had better look in to it.

and another denying they attacked Israel at all and called them (instead of terrorists) freedom fighters.

So I think our young "LGBT supports Palestine" protester...... was probably just clueless.

They want an end to the fighting..... but don't understand the consequences of it stopping and then coming back twice as bad.

Hamas wont stop: They want Israel off the face of the map,.... its in their charter.
There will be no two state solution, no peace deals, no nothing, until the whole area is an Islamic State.

Its an existential threat to Israel and they wont stop until the threat is neutralised.

[Spellbound454]

it is not self determination when the determiner tells you where to go, and then cuts you off from the life you once had.

There is a problem with self determination if it gives you free reign to wipe another Country off the face of the map.

There has been restrictions ..... but to limit the buying of weapons. Money has poured in from all over the world but Hamas have used it to build tunnels and up grade their military.

Israel even built an iron dome so that it didn't have to fire in to Gaza...... from the thousands of rockets which have been launched at them every day for the last 16 years.

It must be very difficult to live with a jihadi enclave in your midst

No other country would put up with that tbh.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 15, 2023 12:12:55 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 I am assuming the LGBT people you mentioned are in London/United Kingdom and do the LGBT folks support Hamas or the non-Hamas Palestinian people. There is a difference.

Hamas aren't a side show, they are the government of Gaza

So even if you hear from the health ministry, fire brigade, police or any official.... they work for Hamas


I did see an interview with some protesters who has never heard of Hamas and thought perhaps they had better look in to it.

and another denying they attacked Israel at all and called them (instead of terrorists) freedom fighters.

So I think our young "LGBT supports Palestine" protester...... was probably just clueless.

They want an end to the fighting..... but don't understand the consequences of it stopping and then coming back twice as bad.

Hamas wont stop: They want Israel off the face of the map,.... its in their charter.
There will be no two state solution, no peace deals, no nothing, until the whole area is an Islamic State.

Its an existential threat to Israel and they wont stop until the threat is neutralised.

I quote posts to get your (and others) attention. Please show me the curtesy of doing the same with my posts so that I know you have replied to them. Heck-show all the posters the same courtesy as they have shown you when it comes to quoting posts.

Having said all that. Prior to Hamas' invasion of Israel, most Palestinians were aware of Hamas but did not support their violent cause as Israel's retaliation would rain down on them (which it dramatically has done). I do blame Hamas for all that has happened in the area. It is now time for Israel to ease up on the innocent Palestinian people. Israel should continue to go after Hamas but leave the Palestinian people alone.

[grumpyhermit]

Being against the actions of the state of Israel is not the same as being antisemitic. There are a number of Jewish people also against Israel's actions; some on these same college campuses. 

I'm not sure why people are confused that people are upset about the indiscriminate slaughter of a civilian population. I don't know if you are mainly following main stream news sources, or are also following accounts on social media (Twitter, TikTok, etc), but there is a lot of horrifying accounts from the Palestinian people and what they are enduring. 

Young people, better or worse, are much more engaged on social media. It is a highlight real of atrocities on a daily basis. Hard to support that. 

[Spellbound454]

They are probably only showing one side to be fair
A lot of media outlets are. Balanced reporting is not needed when you have an agenda.

Lets not forget the monstrous attack on 1400 Israelis

Raping, murdering, killing beheading children in their cots ... parading naked dead young women so that old women could spit on their bodies.
The sort of barbarism that belongs in the dark ages,

and still they hold 210 hostages.

We saw this with ISIS and their horrific killings.
Is that what you want? 

It is Anti semitic because Saudi Arabia recently killed 150,000 in Yemen when they went after the Houthis.(another proxy of Iran)

Where were all the protests then?

The Saudis have been awarded hosting the FIFA World cup in 2034 ...... Like nothing happened.

Nobody cares about that at all.

but when its Israel...well

[Spellbound454]

I post like this, from an explanation moon gave when this board was new.

Its never meant to cause offence, its merely a way of getting to the point.

If it bothers you, I'll courteously not reply.

[grumpyhermit]

Nov 15, 2023 17:35:34 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

They are probably only showing one side to be fair
A lot of media outlets are. Balanced reporting is not needed when you have an agenda.
Lets not forget the monstrous attack on 1400 Israelis

Indeed. There is an alarming amount of propaganda floating around. From both sides. I'm taking all reports with a grain of salt until they can be confirmed.

Raping, murdering, killing beheading children in their cots ... parading naked dead young women so that old women could spit on their bodies.
The sort of barbarism that belongs in the dark ages,


It does. But barbarism from one group, does not justify barbarism from another. The loss of Israeli life was tragic. So too is the ongoing loss of Palestinian life.

and still they hold 210 hostages.

We saw this with ISIS and their horrific killings.
Is that what you want? 

Is what what I want? I wish they could find a way to get the hostages home. Not sure carpet bombing Gaza is the best way to go about it.

It is Antisemitic because Saudi Arabia recently killed 150,000 in Yemen when they went after the Houthis.(another proxy of Iran)

Not sure I follow what you are trying to say here. Protests against Israel's actions in Gaza are antisemitic because Saudi Arabia killed people in Yemen?

Where were all the protests then?

The Saudis have been awarded hosting the FIFA World cup in 2034 ...... Like nothing happened.

Nobody cares about that at all.

I'm sure some people care. Just like some care about what is happening in Gaza. Unfortunately the World Cup is a huge financial endeavor, and FIFA is known to be corrupt as fuck.

but when its Israel...well

[Tennesseer]

Nov 15, 2023 17:53:28 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I post like this, from an explanation moon gave when this board was new.

Its never meant to cause offence, its merely a way of getting to the point.

If it bothers you, I'll courteously not reply.

Quote the post and highlight the sentence(s) you are going to reply to just like I did in your quote above.  . Real easy to use the B as in Bold function.

[laterbloomer]

Nov 15, 2023 20:45:58 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Nov 15, 2023 17:53:28 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I post like this, from an explanation moon gave when this board was new.

Its never meant to cause offence, its merely a way of getting to the point.

If it bothers you, I'll courteously not reply.

Quote the post and highlight the sentence(s) you are going to reply to just like I did in your quote above.  . Real easy to use the B as in Bold function.

What has gotten into you lately? They can post how they prefer to post, just like you can. When did you become.e the posting police? I've seen you doing it to a few people now including me. Is everything okay with you?

[laterbloomer]

I really don't know what to say about Gaza. I can't figure out the history of it and from what I know there are no good guys. As bad as it sounds I understand the Palestinians wanting to oust the Jewish people that took over their territory. I also understand the Israeli response to the Oct 6 attack. This is the meanest war I've ever known this much about. It makes me grateful to live somewhere that has not had even a threat of war in my lifetime.

So I just watch

[djAdvocate]

Nov 15, 2023 12:21:02 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

it is not self determination when the determiner tells you where to go, and then cuts you off from the life you once had.

There is a problem with self determination if it gives you free reign to wipe another Country off the face of the map.

clearly.  which is what Israel is doing right now.

glad we agree on this subject.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 15, 2023 21:35:59 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Nov 15, 2023 20:45:58 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Quote the post and highlight the sentence(s) you are going to reply to just like I did in your quote above.  . Real easy to use the B as in Bold function.

What has gotten into you lately? They can post how they prefer to post, just like you can. When did you become.e the posting police? I've seen you doing it to a few people now including me. Is everything okay with you?

As you told others (including me) several weeks, sit down and let the adults converse here.

[laterbloomer]

Nov 16, 2023 12:57:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Nov 15, 2023 21:35:59 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

What has gotten into you lately? They can post how they prefer to post, just like you can. When did you become.e the posting police? I've seen you doing it to a few people now including me. Is everything okay with you?

As you told others (including me) several weeks, sit down and let the adults converse here.

In response to exactly the same kind of behaviour. I usually enjoy reading you but something has changed, you are more petty lately. Maybe I just didn't notice it before.

[Spellbound454]

 clearly. which is what Israel is doing right now.



glad we agree on this subject.

What did you expect Israel to do?

They were living in peace then....

1,400 people murdered in the most barbaric and savage way....
220 people taken hostage

From a land from within, who have no objective other than to wipe them all off the face of the World.


I know some people are calling for a ceasefire

but that would only be a ceasefire from one side, Hamas have never kept any ceasefire agreement..... or any agreement.

and ceasefire would be a victory for Hamas.

Hamas would only regroup re-arm and come back twice as strong. They have openly said they would do it again and again.

It doesn't get the hostages back, it doesn't protect Israel from being attacked in the future, and it doesn't solve the problem.

but of course the protesters know this ...... or their terrorist supporting puppet masters do.

So forgive me for being suspicious of intentions.


Hamas need to be ousted and a more stable government settled in. That would benefit the Palestinians, Israel and Countries in the region.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 19, 2023 4:28:27 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 clearly. which is what Israel is doing right now.



glad we agree on this subject.

What did you expect Israel to do?.

the same thing i expect of Great Britan and the US.  to minimize civilian casualties, and to act in accordance with international law.

i noted that you didn't address the actual point there.  but it is just as well, since Hamas does not have the firepower to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth.

if you could manage to not engage in hyperbole, this discussion might be more fruitful.

[djAdvocate]

to be clear, the US did the same thing in Iraq, for ZERO reason. so this is not me claiming the preachers sheets are white. we are as filthy as anyone.