Pence has dropped out

[shelley413]

“This isn’t his time”. (Posted by The Hill)

[thyme4change]

Because it isn’t 1708?

[djAdvocate]

[djAdvocate]

this is the second best reverse lyric sync i have ever seen.

in this case, Weird Al actually learned the mouth the words backwards to do the backward scene starting at 2:51.  pretty genius move, and it comes off beautifully.  i especially like the chickens walking backwards.  good touch.

[happyhoix]

I respect Pences integrity, although I disagree with him on most policy.

He’s one of the rare politicians who claims to be a Christian and actually is.

The GOP is not receptive to that right now. They want a loudmouth who will own the libs.

[NastyWoman]

Oct 28, 2023 17:09:36 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I respect Pences integrity, although I disagree with him on most policy.

He’s one of the rare politicians who claims to be a Christian and actually is.

The GOP is not receptive to that right now. They want a loudmouth who will own the libs.

Let's just say we disagree about these points. His refusal to speak up about the loser kind of puts him in a group of cowards rather than those with "integrity" and as far as being a "Christian" goes - let's no even talk about his rather vile (IMO) position regarding women. 

He might be less of a MAGA zealot than most of the others but he is a zealot nonetheless

[Tennesseer]

Oct 28, 2023 18:37:54 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Oct 28, 2023 17:09:36 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I respect Pences integrity, although I disagree with him on most policy.

He’s one of the rare politicians who claims to be a Christian and actually is.

The GOP is not receptive to that right now. They want a loudmouth who will own the libs.

Let's just say we disagree about these points. His refusal to speak up about the loser kind of puts him in a group of cowards rather than those with "integrity" and as far as being a "Christian" goes - let's no even talk about his rather vile (IMO) position regarding women. 

He might be less of a MAGA zealot than most of the others but he is a zealot nonetheless

At the time trump selected him as his vp, pence was the governor of Indiana. His Indiana state approval ratings were falling into the 40s. Not well liked in the state.

Mike Pence: What Are His Approval Ratings as Indiana Governor?
August 2016

Indiana Governor Mike Pence’s approval ratings in Indiana have dropped into the 40s in 2016 polling, which experts in that state largely attribute to his socially conservative positions on LGBTQ issues and abortion, souring women on his leadership.

Mike Pence: What Are His Approval Ratings as Indiana Governor?

[tallguy]

Oct 28, 2023 18:37:54 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Oct 28, 2023 17:09:36 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I respect Pences integrity, although I disagree with him on most policy.

He’s one of the rare politicians who claims to be a Christian and actually is.

The GOP is not receptive to that right now. They want a loudmouth who will own the libs.

Let's just say we disagree about these points. His refusal to speak up about the loser kind of puts him in a group of cowards rather than those with "integrity" and as far as being a "Christian" goes - let's no even talk about his rather vile (IMO) position regarding women. 

He might be less of a MAGA zealot than most of the others but he is a zealot nonetheless

Yeah, I don't believe in Pence either.  I have said many times that the majority of people in this country who claim to be Christian have no idea what it means to actually be one.  Of those in the public eye (such as politicians and TV preachers) who make their faith a primary component of their public persona, the vast majority are lying about their faith in order to exploit true believers.  The ONLY politician who comes immediately to mind as someone who truly lived his faith is/was Jimmy Carter.  With anyone else it is pretty easy to have questions.  LOTS of questions in some cases.    

[happyhoix]

Oct 28, 2023 18:37:54 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Oct 28, 2023 17:09:36 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I respect Pences integrity, although I disagree with him on most policy.

He’s one of the rare politicians who claims to be a Christian and actually is.

The GOP is not receptive to that right now. They want a loudmouth who will own the libs.

Let's just say we disagree about these points. His refusal to speak up about the loser kind of puts him in a group of cowards rather than those with "integrity" and as far as being a "Christian" goes - let's no even talk about his rather vile (IMO) position regarding women. 

He might be less of a MAGA zealot than most of the others but he is a zealot nonetheless

Yes -BUT - he was Trumps toady right up until it mattered most- on J6.

Up until then he was a useless background player, but by refusing to do Trumps bidding and certifying the vote, he gets some admiration from me.

Imagine the relentless pressure Trump subjected him to, trying to make him comply. The enormous backlash he got from the MAGA lunatics. Remember how they brought a noose with them to the Capitol specifically for Pence. Remember that his family was there with him, and how he refused to let the secret service cart him off site to a safe space because he was afraid they wouldn’t bring him back so he could certify the vote?

So I give him some credit for that. How much easier it would have been if he just done what Trump wanted, but how much more chaos would that have brought to the transition?

[tallguy]

Oct 28, 2023 20:38:32 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Oct 28, 2023 18:37:54 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Let's just say we disagree about these points. His refusal to speak up about the loser kind of puts him in a group of cowards rather than those with "integrity" and as far as being a "Christian" goes - let's no even talk about his rather vile (IMO) position regarding women. 

He might be less of a MAGA zealot than most of the others but he is a zealot nonetheless

Yes -BUT - he was Trumps toady right up until it mattered most- on J6.

Up until then he was a useless background player, but by refusing to do Trumps bidding and certifying the vote, he gets some admiration from me.

Imagine the relentless pressure Trump subjected him to, trying to make him comply. The enormous backlash he got from the MAGA lunatics. Remember how they brought a noose with them to the Capitol specifically for Pence. Remember that his family was there with him, and how he refused to let the secret service cart him off site to a safe space because he was afraid they wouldn’t bring him back so he could certify the vote?

So I give him some credit for that. How much easier it would have been if he just done what Trump wanted, but how much more chaos would that have brought to the transition?

Yes, he had one good day.  But don't forget that in the leadup to that day he was trying desperately to find someone to tell him it was acceptable under the laws and the Constitution to go along with Trump's demands.  Only after not finding any justification did he stand firm.  So yes, he gets credit for that one day.  For the rest of his political career aside from that day?  Not a chance in hell, which coincidentally is a place I'm pretty sure he will become intimately familiar with someday. 

[shelley413]

There are several things about Pence that bothered me.  After the tapes of Trump and Billy Bush came out I really thought he would not run for VP.  I really think he chose to run because he thought that if Trump won the election, he would be forced at some point to resign and Pence would become president. Also, it was sickening to me watching him stand behind Trump smiling and bobbing his head up and down.  

Even though he knew he could not refuse the electoral votes, he made sure to check with Dan Quayle (sp?) and someone else I can’t remember right now to see if there was some way he could. That’s not being a hero and saving the election.  He only did his job.

[NastyWoman]

Oct 28, 2023 20:38:32 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Oct 28, 2023 18:37:54 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Let's just say we disagree about these points. His refusal to speak up about the loser kind of puts him in a group of cowards rather than those with "integrity" and as far as being a "Christian" goes - let's no even talk about his rather vile (IMO) position regarding women. 

He might be less of a MAGA zealot than most of the others but he is a zealot nonetheless

Yes -BUT - he was Trumps toady right up until it mattered most- on J6.

Up until then he was a useless background player, but by refusing to do Trumps bidding and certifying the vote, he gets some admiration from me.

Imagine the relentless pressure Trump subjected him to, trying to make him comply. The enormous backlash he got from the MAGA lunatics. Remember how they brought a noose with them to the Capitol specifically for Pence. Remember that his family was there with him, and how he refused to let the secret service cart him off site to a safe space because he was afraid they wouldn’t bring him back so he could certify the vote?

So I give him some credit for that. How much easier it would have been if he just done what Trump wanted, but how much more chaos would that have brought to the transition?

However you seem to forget that he actually consulted conservative lawyer and former federal judge about the legality of refusing to certify the votes.  Michael Luttig strongly advised Pence against doing so. It is my personal opinion that Pence's actions that day were far less a matter of him wanting to do the right thing but rather a case of protecting his own hide. And it is too big of a leap for me to give him credit  for having some basic survival skills

[billisonboard]

Oct 28, 2023 21:42:32 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Oct 28, 2023 20:38:32 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Yes -BUT - he was Trumps toady right up until it mattered most- on J6.

Up until then he was a useless background player, but by refusing to do Trumps bidding and certifying the vote, he gets some admiration from me.

Imagine the relentless pressure Trump subjected him to, trying to make him comply. The enormous backlash he got from the MAGA lunatics. Remember how they brought a noose with them to the Capitol specifically for Pence. Remember that his family was there with him, and how he refused to let the secret service cart him off site to a safe space because he was afraid they wouldn’t bring him back so he could certify the vote?

So I give him some credit for that. How much easier it would have been if he just done what Trump wanted, but how much more chaos would that have brought to the transition?

However you seem to forget that he actually consulted conservative lawyer and former federal judge about the legality of refusing to certify the votes.  Michael Luttig strongly advised Pence against doing so. It is my personal opinion that Pence's actions that day were far less a matter of him wanting to do the right thing but rather a case of protecting his own hide. And it is too big of a leap for me to give him credit  for having some basic survival skills

Wish Trump would have actually consulted Luttig. Certainly not going to fault Pence for doing it.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Oct 28, 2023 22:26:41 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Oct 28, 2023 21:42:32 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

However you seem to forget that he actually consulted conservative lawyer and former federal judge about the legality of refusing to certify the votes.  Michael Luttig strongly advised Pence against doing so. It is my personal opinion that Pence's actions that day were far less a matter of him wanting to do the right thing but rather a case of protecting his own hide. And it is too big of a leap for me to give him credit  for having some basic survival skills

Wish Trump would have actually consulted Luttig. Certainly not going to fault Pence for doing it.

Trump would never have listened to him. He has a habit of pushing aside or denigrating anyone who does not agree with him or go along with what he wants.

[happyhoix]

Oct 29, 2023 3:48:39 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

Oct 28, 2023 22:26:41 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Wish Trump would have actually consulted Luttig. Certainly not going to fault Pence for doing it.

Trump would never have listened to him. He has a habit of pushing aside or denigrating anyone who does not agree with him or go along with what he wants.

True, but wouldn’t it have been great if he would have? 

Imagine what the four years of his tyranny would have been like, if he had listened to anyone other than his toadies. 

I’m terrified at how well he’s running in the polls. Four more years of pure retribution is unthinkable. 

[Opti]

Oct 29, 2023 7:42:08 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Oct 29, 2023 3:48:39 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

Trump would never have listened to him. He has a habit of pushing aside or denigrating anyone who does not agree with him or go along with what he wants.

True, but wouldn’t it have been great if he would have? 

Imagine what the four years of his tyranny would have been like, if he had listened to anyone other than his toadies. 

I’m terrified at how well he’s running in the polls. Four more years of pure retribution is unthinkable. 

You are imagining an alternate universe where Trump is not the Trump we know. 

[tallguy]

Oct 28, 2023 22:26:41 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Oct 28, 2023 21:42:32 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

However you seem to forget that he actually consulted conservative lawyer and former federal judge about the legality of refusing to certify the votes.  Michael Luttig strongly advised Pence against doing so. It is my personal opinion that Pence's actions that day were far less a matter of him wanting to do the right thing but rather a case of protecting his own hide. And it is too big of a leap for me to give him credit  for having some basic survival skills

Wish Trump would have actually consulted Luttig. Certainly not going to fault Pence for doing it.

Would give Pence more credit if he hadn't bothered.  Anyone worthy of the office he occupied had to know it would have been horribly wrong.  Morally, intellectually, legally, and constitutionally wrong.  The fact that he tried to find a way around those is a failure in all four areas.  It may not be a complete failure, since he ultimately did not fold, but neither is he a paragon of strength, honor, and virtue.

[Opti]

Oct 29, 2023 8:35:25 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Oct 28, 2023 22:26:41 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Wish Trump would have actually consulted Luttig. Certainly not going to fault Pence for doing it.

Would give Pence more credit if he hadn't bothered.  Anyone worthy of the office he occupied had to know it would have been horribly wrong.  Morally, intellectually, legally, and constitutionally wrong.  The fact that he tried to find a way around those is a failure in all four areas.  It may not be a complete failure, since he ultimately did not fold, but neither is he a paragon of strength, honor, and virtue.

I don't blame Pence for reaching out as dealing with a screaming yelling Trump constantly must be very hard. While he was probably hoping an official answer would stop Trump from pressing the issue, it did help him clarify the legal ramifications to him if he did illegal things like Trump expects of all his minions.

He was employed by an abuser who called for his death because he wouldn't illegally steal the election for Trump. 2017 felt five years long to me, can you imagine the agony of working with the screaming angry toddler that is Trump for four years? Many in Trump's orbit turn crazy, i.e. Rudy G., Michael Cohen etc. Maybe Michael snapped out of it, or maybe self-preservation did it for him IDK. But Pence lived a very high stress existence as VP. 

[djAdvocate]

Oct 29, 2023 11:09:44 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 29, 2023 8:35:25 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Would give Pence more credit if he hadn't bothered.  Anyone worthy of the office he occupied had to know it would have been horribly wrong.  Morally, intellectually, legally, and constitutionally wrong.  The fact that he tried to find a way around those is a failure in all four areas.  It may not be a complete failure, since he ultimately did not fold, but neither is he a paragon of strength, honor, and virtue.

I don't blame Pence for reaching out as dealing with a screaming yelling Trump constantly must be very hard. While he was probably hoping an official answer would stop Trump from pressing the issue, it did help him clarify the legal ramifications to him if he did illegal things like Trump expects of all his minions.

He was employed by an abuser who called for his death because he wouldn't illegally steal the election for Trump. 2017 felt five years long to me, can you imagine the agony of working with the screaming angry toddler that is Trump for four years? Many in Trump's orbit turn crazy, i.e. Rudy G., Michael Cohen etc. Maybe Michael snapped out of it, or maybe self-preservation did it for him IDK. But Pence lived a very high stress existence as VP. 

turn crazy?  no.  i think these people all have an "inner crazy" that Trump unleashed.  they are opportunistically crazy.  if you listen to Trump on the bench, or any of those "crazy" lawyers, they don't sound so crazy in court.  they are not claiming that the election was rigged by dead dictators, for example.  and they are not claiming that NOT because they have disavowed those "truths", but because it has no benefit to them to do it in court.  that means that they are CAPABLE of acting in a responsible, coherent way when it is demanded of them.

they choose not to.

this must be what it is like to have some deep weird fetish and finding another 10 people that share it.  that must be fun for them.  before, they felt alone and ashamed, and now, they can just be as freaky as they want to.

[NastyWoman]

Oct 29, 2023 11:09:44 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 29, 2023 8:35:25 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Would give Pence more credit if he hadn't bothered.  Anyone worthy of the office he occupied had to know it would have been horribly wrong.  Morally, intellectually, legally, and constitutionally wrong.  The fact that he tried to find a way around those is a failure in all four areas.  It may not be a complete failure, since he ultimately did not fold, but neither is he a paragon of strength, honor, and virtue.

I don't blame Pence for reaching out as dealing with a screaming yelling Trump constantly must be very hard. While he was probably hoping an official answer would stop Trump from pressing the issue, it did help him clarify the legal ramifications to him if he did illegal things like Trump expects of all his minions.

He was employed by an abuser who called for his death because he wouldn't illegally steal the election for Trump. 2017 felt five years long to me, can you imagine the agony of working with the screaming angry toddler that is Trump for four years? Many in Trump's orbit turn crazy, i.e. Rudy G., Michael Cohen etc. Maybe Michael snapped out of it, or maybe self-preservation did it for him IDK. But Pence lived a very high stress existence as VP. 

Ok. But let's be blunt here for a moment. Many of us, knowing only what the loser was like based on media releases - in other words what his campaign allowed us to see, knew in 2016 what an unqualified POS the loser was. Pence had a front seat to that what was kept hidden. Do you really like think the loser was any more palatable in the privacy  of his campaign? Yet knowing all that Pence voluntarily aligned himself with the loser. And when the loser just kept getting worse he did not resign from his post either. 
There is neither pity in me for Pence being in a "high stress existence" nor admiration for ultimately saving his own skin by doing what the law required of him.

All this stress was of his own making IMO.

[Opti]

Play acting in a courtroom does not make these lawyers or Trump sane or normal, but I get your point. Michael Cohen and Rudi were already flawed people ripe for Trump to exploit. Both were very willing and one remains so.

[Opti]

Oct 29, 2023 14:51:00 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Oct 29, 2023 11:09:44 GMT -5 Opti said:

I don't blame Pence for reaching out as dealing with a screaming yelling Trump constantly must be very hard. While he was probably hoping an official answer would stop Trump from pressing the issue, it did help him clarify the legal ramifications to him if he did illegal things like Trump expects of all his minions.

He was employed by an abuser who called for his death because he wouldn't illegally steal the election for Trump. 2017 felt five years long to me, can you imagine the agony of working with the screaming angry toddler that is Trump for four years? Many in Trump's orbit turn crazy, i.e. Rudy G., Michael Cohen etc. Maybe Michael snapped out of it, or maybe self-preservation did it for him IDK. But Pence lived a very high stress existence as VP. 

Ok. But let's be blunt here for a moment. Many of us, knowing only what the loser was like based on media releases - in other words what his campaign allowed us to see, knew in 2016 what an unqualified POS the loser was. Pence had a front seat to that what was kept hidden. Do you really like think the loser was any more palatable in the privacy  of his campaign? Yet knowing all that Pence voluntarily aligned himself with the loser. And when the loser just kept getting worse he did not resign from his post either. 
There is neither pity in me for Pence being in a "high stress existence" nor admiration for ultimately saving his own skin by doing what the law required of him.

All this stress was of his own making IMO.

I agree Pence was an idiot to agree to be Trump's VP. Pence and his people hoped Trump would resign and he would become President. And for that reason, wanting to become President, is I think the big reason Pence did not resign. I don't see a successful campaign for President from a VP who resigns no matter the circumstances (unfortunately).

I had Trump pegged for various things prior to the election, but trying to illegally change the results of the next election was not one of them. Do worse with classified docs than Hillary did and I was a bit surprised to the lengths Trump went to keep them. Storing them in a bathroom!

It is not admiration but compassionate understanding from me. I don't think Pence went in as VP assuming the endgame was Trump trying to overturn a legal election. Now if I can be proven wrong on that point, I would change my opinion. If Pence resigned prior to January 6th Trump's coup could have succeeded. So I am glad he was there to stop the cheater even if it was mainly for self-preservation and a future shot at the Presidency. 

[djAdvocate]

Oct 29, 2023 14:51:00 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Oct 29, 2023 11:09:44 GMT -5 Opti said:

I don't blame Pence for reaching out as dealing with a screaming yelling Trump constantly must be very hard. While he was probably hoping an official answer would stop Trump from pressing the issue, it did help him clarify the legal ramifications to him if he did illegal things like Trump expects of all his minions.

He was employed by an abuser who called for his death because he wouldn't illegally steal the election for Trump. 2017 felt five years long to me, can you imagine the agony of working with the screaming angry toddler that is Trump for four years? Many in Trump's orbit turn crazy, i.e. Rudy G., Michael Cohen etc. Maybe Michael snapped out of it, or maybe self-preservation did it for him IDK. But Pence lived a very high stress existence as VP. 

Ok. But let's be blunt here for a moment. Many of us, knowing only what the loser was like based on media releases - in other words what his campaign allowed us to see, knew in 2016 what an unqualified POS the loser was. Pence had a front seat to that what was kept hidden. Do you really like think the loser was any more palatable in the privacy  of his campaign? Yet knowing all that Pence voluntarily aligned himself with the loser. And when the loser just kept getting worse he did not resign from his post either. 
There is neither pity in me for Pence being in a "high stress existence" nor admiration for ultimately saving his own skin by doing what the law required of him.

All this stress was of his own making IMO.

i am with Nasty on this.  the man is no hero.  

he did the absolute minimum required of him by the constitution.  he could have strenuously objected to Trump, declaring him unfit for office under the 25th amendment.  there was SOME discussion of this, and Pence could have led the charge. 

he is, after all, the executive of Indiana.  he must have ENOUGH leadership experience to manage something that basic.

[tallguy]

Oct 29, 2023 15:42:36 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Oct 29, 2023 14:51:00 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Ok. But let's be blunt here for a moment. Many of us, knowing only what the loser was like based on media releases - in other words what his campaign allowed us to see, knew in 2016 what an unqualified POS the loser was. Pence had a front seat to that what was kept hidden. Do you really like think the loser was any more palatable in the privacy  of his campaign? Yet knowing all that Pence voluntarily aligned himself with the loser. And when the loser just kept getting worse he did not resign from his post either. 
There is neither pity in me for Pence being in a "high stress existence" nor admiration for ultimately saving his own skin by doing what the law required of him.

All this stress was of his own making IMO.

i am with Nasty on this.  the man is no hero.  

he did the absolute minimum required of him by the constitution.  he could have strenuously objected to Trump, declaring him unfit for office under the 25th amendment.  there was SOME discussion of this, and Pence could have led the charge. 

he is, after all, the executive of Indiana.  he must have ENOUGH leadership experience to manage something that basic.

Yes.  That would have shown something.

[Opti]

Being glad Pence did his VP duties is not the same as seeing him as a hero. I don't know where you all are pulling up such glowing ideas as I am certainly not expressing them.

I am happy Michael Cohen is testifying even though I feel he is only doing so for self-preservation. he is an additional tool for the prosecution which I hope prevails. I think he would still be toadying up to Trump now if Trump hadn't thrown his under the bus.


I have some compassion for people who are willing to steal and not kill and then discover during the job murder was on the table. Flawed people sometimes do the right thing, and I am thankful for that. Do you really wish Pence had resigned, a compliant VP was picked and the fake elector scheme was successful? 

Michael Cohen is not a hero, but a tool. Pence luckily was at least willing to do one right thing when needed. Not a hero, but at least not a Trump tool that day. Chris Christie is several years late IMO, he really should have spoke out about Trump during the 2020 campaign not only after J6 happened. Where was all his talking points post J6 when fake elector schemes and no proof election lawsuits where filed in various states?

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/i-think-all-these-other-candidates-are-better-chris-christie-makes-a-bombshell-announcement-his-stern-refusal-to-support-trump-sparks-speculation-of-gop-s-internal-trouble/ss-AA1j35U0?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=5eb0b825ac3d4425bdb8519e85e95cb8&ei=7#image=8


Trump was disrespectful to the Constitution

Bolling probed further, asking if Christie would support Trump if he became the nominee.



Christie replied, “The former president has conducted himself in a way which I think has been disrespectful to the Constitution, violates the Constitution, and I just can’t be supportive of a guy who does those things and then just recently said that Mark Milley should be subject to execution. No. I can’t do that.”

[happyhoix]

Oct 29, 2023 16:19:57 GMT -5 Opti said:

Being glad Pence did his VP duties is not the same as seeing him as a hero. I don't know where you all are pulling up such glowing ideas as I am certainly not expressing them.

I am happy Michael Cohen is testifying even though I feel he is only doing so for self-preservation. he is an additional tool for the prosecution which I hope prevails. I think he would still be toadying up to Trump now if Trump hadn't thrown his under the bus.


I have some compassion for people who are willing to steal and not kill and then discover during the job murder was on the table. Flawed people sometimes do the right thing, and I am thankful for that. Do you really wish Pence had resigned, a compliant VP was picked and the fake elector scheme was successful? 

Michael Cohen is not a hero, but a tool. Pence luckily was at least willing to do one right thing when needed. Not a hero, but at least not a Trump tool that day. Chris Christie is several years late IMO, he really should have spoke out about Trump during the 2020 campaign not only after J6 happened. Where was all his talking points post J6 when fake elector schemes and no proof election lawsuits where filed in various states?

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/i-think-all-these-other-candidates-are-better-chris-christie-makes-a-bombshell-announcement-his-stern-refusal-to-support-trump-sparks-speculation-of-gop-s-internal-trouble/ss-AA1j35U0?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=5eb0b825ac3d4425bdb8519e85e95cb8&ei=7#image=8


Trump was disrespectful to the Constitution

Bolling probed further, asking if Christie would support Trump if he became the nominee.



Christie replied, “The former president has conducted himself in a way which I think has been disrespectful to the Constitution, violates the Constitution, and I just can’t be supportive of a guy who does those things and then just recently said that Mark Milley should be subject to execution. No. I can’t do that.”

Barr was another one I think turned far too late, could have done a lot if he’d spoken up sooner. 

I think he realizes how things are turning on Trump and wants to make sure he ultimately comes out on the right side of history. 

Yes it’s good he’s speaking out against Trump now, but he should have been speaking out before J6th (he surely knew something was up). 

[djAdvocate]

Oct 29, 2023 16:19:57 GMT -5 Opti said:

Being glad Pence did his VP duties is not the same as seeing him as a hero. I don't know where you all are pulling up such glowing ideas as I am certainly not expressing them.

I am happy Michael Cohen is testifying even though I feel he is only doing so for self-preservation. he is an additional tool for the prosecution which I hope prevails. I think he would still be toadying up to Trump now if Trump hadn't thrown his under the bus.


I have some compassion for people who are willing to steal and not kill and then discover during the job murder was on the table. Flawed people sometimes do the right thing, and I am thankful for that. Do you really wish Pence had resigned, a compliant VP was picked and the fake elector scheme was successful? 

Michael Cohen is not a hero, but a tool. Pence luckily was at least willing to do one right thing when needed. Not a hero, but at least not a Trump tool that day. Chris Christie is several years late IMO, he really should have spoke out about Trump during the 2020 campaign not only after J6 happened. Where was all his talking points post J6 when fake elector schemes and no proof election lawsuits where filed in various states?

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/i-think-all-these-other-candidates-are-better-chris-christie-makes-a-bombshell-announcement-his-stern-refusal-to-support-trump-sparks-speculation-of-gop-s-internal-trouble/ss-AA1j35U0?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=5eb0b825ac3d4425bdb8519e85e95cb8&ei=7#image=8


Trump was disrespectful to the Constitution

Bolling probed further, asking if Christie would support Trump if he became the nominee.



Christie replied, “The former president has conducted himself in a way which I think has been disrespectful to the Constitution, violates the Constitution, and I just can’t be supportive of a guy who does those things and then just recently said that Mark Milley should be subject to execution. No. I can’t do that.”

i disagree with the "only" part.  if it were only for self preservation, he would have sunk back into the darkness that once consumed him.  instead, he is out there every day, warning us about Trump.  this is the trajectory for MANY people.  they sat on the fence, in silence, or maybe lukewarm enthusiasm for Trump, then they had a Come To Jesus moment, and realized that he is the equivalent of the Black Plague, rampaging through the heartland, and taking out 1/3 of our Democracy.


we can either come to our senses, or we can fall to ashes and chaos.

[djAdvocate]

i think that Cohen has done far more to redeem himself than Barr.

but Barr never went to jail for Trump.