If everyone over 70 died

[NastyWoman]

Oct 27, 2023 15:09:30 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

more than half this board, i would wager.

If that is true, and it well may be, that is proof that there are quite a few of us old fogeys who definitely are not all that conservative 

[laterbloomer]

Oct 28, 2023 14:03:31 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

the death industry is, for lack of a better term, evil.

i am doing everything in my power to ensure they will not extract one thin dime from me.  not.....one....dime.

What is the death industry? Funeral homes?

[laterbloomer]

Oct 28, 2023 14:33:02 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Oct 28, 2023 14:03:31 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

the death industry is, for lack of a better term, evil.

i am doing everything in my power to ensure they will not extract one thin dime from me.  not.....one....dime.

This.

Mom was in a memory care facility for the last five years of her life. Nope.

What is a memory care facility?

[billisonboard]

Oct 28, 2023 18:03:12 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Oct 28, 2023 14:33:02 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

This.

Mom was in a memory care facility for the last five years of her life. Nope.

What is a memory care facility?

Damn, I used to know but can't remember it now.

[Tennesseer]

Oct 28, 2023 18:03:12 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Oct 28, 2023 14:33:02 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

This.

Mom was in a memory care facility for the last five years of her life. Nope.

What is a memory care facility?

For folks with dementia, advanced Alzheimer's disease, and the like. At the point my mom entered one, she had no idea who her children (including me) were and few words came out of her mouth.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Oct 28, 2023 18:03:12 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Oct 28, 2023 14:33:02 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

This.

Mom was in a memory care facility for the last five years of her life. Nope.

What is a memory care facility?

It's nursing home care for people with advanced dementia and Alzheimers.

It's more secure so patients can't wander off and involves more skilled care than a regular nursing home.

There are rules and regulations for things like staffing to patient level, licensing, types of care provided that distinguish betwen assisted living, nursing home and memory care.

Most facilities do not provide all three often requiring patients be moved as their care needs increase.

As much as I butt heads with them finding out the place my grandma is in is now licensed for memory care is one less worry.

[laterbloomer]

I don't know if I want to keep living in that circumstance. I'm not sure if I want to keep living if I have to go into assisted living. Maybe I would change my mind if the situation were more imminent, but right now it sounds like torture to me. Not any diss on the care, but it seems like a very depressing existence. Just hanging out around the residence, never really going anywhere or doing anything.

[djAdvocate]

Oct 28, 2023 16:10:39 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Oct 27, 2023 15:09:30 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

more than half this board, i would wager.

If that is true, and it well may be, that is proof that there are quite a few of us old fogeys who definitely are not all that conservative 

yeah, we bend the curve here.  

[djAdvocate]

Oct 28, 2023 18:17:05 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Oct 28, 2023 18:03:12 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

What is a memory care facility?

It's nursing home care for people with advanced dementia and Alzheimers.

It's more secure so patients can't wander off and involves more skilled care than a regular nursing home.

There are rules and regulations for things like staffing to patient level, licensing, types of care provided that distinguish betwen assisted living, nursing home and memory care.

Most facilities do not provide all three often requiring patients be moved as their care needs increase.

As much as I butt heads with them finding out the place my grandma is in is now licensed for memory care is one less worry.

we should give our kids specific instructions what to do with us, so they can prepare, and so you don't have to choose the path of least resistance.  i know none of like end of life planning.  but think of the burden that puts upon our families.  it is really unfair and selfish.

[happyhoix]

Oct 28, 2023 20:39:00 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I don't know if I want to keep living in that circumstance. I'm not sure if I want to keep living if I have to go into assisted living. Maybe I would change my mind if the situation were more imminent, but right now it sounds like torture to me. Not any diss on the care, but it seems like a very depressing existence. Just hanging out around the residence, never really going anywhere or doing anything.

I wouldn’t mind assisted living if I still had my mind. I can see getting too frail/tired to cook and clean for myself, but could still enjoy watching TV, reading, talking to friends, etc. 

But living with dementia - nope. My mom was angry a lot, because she wanted to be at her home, driving her car, etc., and was furious at us for making her stay at the facility. Then as the disease got worse, she lot the ability to do all the things she loved to do. Do crosswords, knit, do cross stitch, watch TV, read - she couldn’t even carry on a conversation with anyone anymore. She thought I was one of her sisters or her mother, when I visited. Imagine a whole nursing home with people stuck in that sad limbo. No thanks. 

[thyme4change]

Oct 28, 2023 20:39:00 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I don't know if I want to keep living in that circumstance. I'm not sure if I want to keep living if I have to go into assisted living. Maybe I would change my mind if the situation were more imminent, but right now it sounds like torture to me. Not any diss on the care, but it seems like a very depressing existence. Just hanging out around the residence, never really going anywhere or doing anything.

I remember vividly reading an article about a woman who had Alzheimer’s- probably early onset, and she and her crew figured out at what point she wanted to be done. Apparently she had clear health markers to decide her quality of life. When she reaches that point, they threw a 3 day party where everyone came and told her stories and said goodbye. After it was over she took a cocktail of drugs to induce death. For legal reasons, she was alone when she took the pills and then she and her husband laid together and hugged until she was gone. It seemed a mix of clinical, logical, reasonable and emotional. But her family grieved with her. She had to be cognizant enough to make the decision - but progressed with disease enough that her quality of life was basically gone. That is a super fine line with memory care patients. Ugh - not super excited to watch my parents deteriorate, nor am I happy to go through it myself.

[chiver78]

Oct 29, 2023 22:00:54 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Oct 28, 2023 20:39:00 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I don't know if I want to keep living in that circumstance. I'm not sure if I want to keep living if I have to go into assisted living. Maybe I would change my mind if the situation were more imminent, but right now it sounds like torture to me. Not any diss on the care, but it seems like a very depressing existence. Just hanging out around the residence, never really going anywhere or doing anything.

I remember vividly reading an article about a woman who had Alzheimer’s- probably early onset, and she and her crew figured out at what point she wanted to be done. Apparently she had clear health markers to decide her quality of life. When she reaches that point, they threw a 3 day party where everyone came and told her stories and said goodbye. After it was over she took a cocktail of drugs to induce death. For legal reasons, she was alone when she took the pills and then she and her husband laid together and hugged until she was gone. It seemed a mix of clinical, logical, reasonable and emotional. But her family grieved with her. She had to be cognizant enough to make the decision - but progressed with disease enough that her quality of life was basically gone. That is a super fine line with memory care patients. Ugh - not super excited to watch my parents deteriorate, nor am I happy to go through it myself.

I'm pretty sure I read the same article. I can't imagine having to face that sort of decision. 

[mollyanna58]

Remember the poster Milee? She said she had an envelope of pills taped to her mirror with a note something like "If you ever don't remember what these are for, swallow them".

[laterbloomer]

Oct 30, 2023 10:06:21 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

Remember the poster Milee? She said she had an envelope of pills taped to her mirror with a note something like "If you ever don't remember what these are for, swallow them".

I can't decide if I think that is a brilliant idea or awful.

[happyhoix]

Anyone who has ever watched a loved one die slowly from Alzheimer’s or dementia would be 100 percent pro euthanasia.

They put animals down when their lives are a misery. We’re animals too.

[hurley1980]

Oct 30, 2023 14:41:10 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Anyone who has ever watched a loved one die slowly from Alzheimer’s or dementia would be 100 percent pro euthanasia.

They put animals down when their lives are a misery. We’re animals too.

I have never understood why euthanasia for pets is okay, but not for terminally ill, elderly with a poor quality of living, etc. 

My aunt is 86 years old, she feels bad every single day.  She can't do anything herself anymore, something always hurts, she's always tired, she feels like a total burden on her family, and she would leave this world now if it was her choice.  But its not, so she's just waiting around in pain, bored, depressed, until her time comes. I feel so bad for her, but there is nothing I can do.  I will have a nice cocktail to take when I am ready to leave this world, so I don't have to live the way she does. 

[chiver78]

Oct 30, 2023 15:58:39 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Oct 30, 2023 14:41:10 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Anyone who has ever watched a loved one die slowly from Alzheimer’s or dementia would be 100 percent pro euthanasia.

They put animals down when their lives are a misery. We’re animals too.

I have never understood why euthanasia for pets is okay, but not for terminally ill, elderly with a poor quality of living, etc. 

My aunt is 86 years old, she feels bad every single day.  She can't do anything herself anymore, something always hurts, she's always tired, she feels like a total burden on her family, and she would leave this world now if it was her choice.  But its not, so she's just waiting around in pain, bored, depressed, until her time comes. I feel so bad for her, but there is nothing I can do.  I will have a nice cocktail to take when I am ready to leave this world, so I don't have to live the way she does. 

same. I remember my college roommate's GGma (her parents were super young) was the last one of her friends at the home where she lived, and she woke up every morning all sunny and smiley until she realized she was still alive by herself. I never met GGma, but I remember seeing Gma for family gatherings* after she'd gone to see her mom, and it was so tough to see. 

*this fam and mine were close to campus, and were both "home" for our group. 

[dondubble]

Oct 28, 2023 15:14:15 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

man, there is just no pleasant words for any of this.  other than these.

get real before you get old.

[Tennesseer]

Oct 30, 2023 15:58:39 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Oct 30, 2023 14:41:10 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Anyone who has ever watched a loved one die slowly from Alzheimer’s or dementia would be 100 percent pro euthanasia.

They put animals down when their lives are a misery. We’re animals too.

I have never understood why euthanasia for pets is okay, but not for terminally ill, elderly with a poor quality of living, etc. 

My aunt is 86 years old, she feels bad every single day.  She can't do anything herself anymore, something always hurts, she's always tired, she feels like a total burden on her family, and she would leave this world now if it was her choice.  But its not, so she's just waiting around in pain, bored, depressed, until her time comes. I feel so bad for her, but there is nothing I can do.  I will have a nice cocktail to take when I am ready to leave this world, so I don't have to live the way she does. 

I have told this story before.

My mom had Alzheimer's disease. Prior to me retiring, I contacted my empoloyer's People Help line about my mom's current condition. Mom was not at end state AD but I told the People Help folks that my mom knew she was in deep trouble during her dwindling times she was in the present. I aske People Help if it would be ethical to stop giving mom her AD meds so that the AD would get her quicker to the end of her battle with it. People Help asked me why would I do that. I replied because her state does not allow physician assisted suicide. And that having no mind at all was better than just a little.

People Help said no. Not a good idea. I could live with it.

[NastyWoman]

Oct 30, 2023 14:41:10 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Anyone who has ever watched a loved one die slowly from Alzheimer’s or dementia would be 100 percent pro euthanasia.

They put animals down when their lives are a misery. We’re animals too.

It has been available since the mid80s at least in the Netherlands. It started with a "gedoog" policy, which basically meant it was not covered under the law but it was not prosecuted either. Later is was formalized under the law. And despite what all the nay sayers voice as their biggest fear, we have not taken to killing off our old or sick people.
When my mom was very sick from lung cancer she told us and her doctor she did not want euthanasia so her treatment was focussed on pain control and it was never brought up again. My grandmother had my sister and me promise we would "pull the plug" rather than let her linger. Grandma (oma) died in her sleep at age 99. Oma knew she could count on my sister and me for her right to die. I was just living on the other side of the world so less a available.


Even before I made my decision to move back it has always been my plan to move somewhere where euthanasia was available if I ever am diagnosed with a disease that will take away my quality of life

[laterbloomer]

In Canada it's called M.A.I.D.- medical assistance in dying. I've known 2 people that accessed it. I was invited to one death. I couldn't do it.

[thyme4change]

Oct 30, 2023 15:58:39 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Oct 30, 2023 14:41:10 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Anyone who has ever watched a loved one die slowly from Alzheimer’s or dementia would be 100 percent pro euthanasia.

They put animals down when their lives are a misery. We’re animals too.

I have never understood why euthanasia for pets is okay, but not for terminally ill, elderly with a poor quality of living, etc. 

. 

Probably because pets don’t have assets and estates that their children are anxious to get their grubby little paws on.

It is too bad that some people ruin it for everyone else.

[happyhoix]

Oct 31, 2023 22:14:12 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Oct 30, 2023 15:58:39 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

I have never understood why euthanasia for pets is okay, but not for terminally ill, elderly with a poor quality of living, etc. 

. 

Probably because pets don’t have assets and estates that their children are anxious to get their grubby little paws on.

It is too bad that some people ruin it for everyone else.

The right to lifers get involved too.

Years ago there was a young woman who had a catastrophic brain incident that left her bedridden and immobile other than the ability to move her eyes. Zero cognitive ability. Her husband wanted to pull her feeding tube but her mother sued to keep her alive, and a bunch of right to life people jumped on board. Husband insisted his wife would not want to continue existing like that and he ultimately prevailed after many legal hoops.

I don’t don’t think Jesus wants us to suffer like that. Just because we can medically do something doesn’t mean we should.

[chiver78]

Nov 1, 2023 7:44:25 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Oct 31, 2023 22:14:12 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Probably because pets don’t have assets and estates that their children are anxious to get their grubby little paws on.

It is too bad that some people ruin it for everyone else.

The right to lifers get involved too.

Years ago there was a young woman who had a catastrophic brain incident that left her bedridden and immobile other than the ability to move her eyes. Zero cognitive ability. Her husband wanted to pull her feeding tube but her mother sued to keep her alive, and a bunch of right to life people jumped on board. Husband insisted his wife would not want to continue existing like that and he ultimately prevailed after many legal hoops.

I don’t don’t think Jesus wants us to suffer like that. Just because we can medically do something doesn’t mean we should.

yes - Terri Schiavo

[thyme4change]

Nov 1, 2023 7:44:25 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Oct 31, 2023 22:14:12 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Probably because pets don’t have assets and estates that their children are anxious to get their grubby little paws on.

It is too bad that some people ruin it for everyone else.

The right to lifers get involved too.

Years ago there was a young woman who had a catastrophic brain incident that left her bedridden and immobile other than the ability to move her eyes. Zero cognitive ability. Her husband wanted to pull her feeding tube but her mother sued to keep her alive, and a bunch of right to life people jumped on board. Husband insisted his wife would not want to continue existing like that and he ultimately prevailed after many legal hoops.

I don’t don’t think Jesus wants us to suffer like that. Just because we can medically do something doesn’t mean we should.

I remember her - those fights will still occur if euthanasia was a common practice. People in families will always disagree. There are lots of people who go through the same disagreement but someone backs down before court and/or publicity. Shivo was only unusual because they activated the pro-life movement and there was no other news that week.

Policy wise, I understand why offing grandma the first time she shows a hint of decline is problematic. I think we have already proven we don’t trust doctors to make medical decisions in the gray areas. There are doctors that are willing to say anything or sign untrue statements (Covid, vaccines, masks, etc) and doctors aren’t capable of deciding when a woman’s life or safety is at risk. How do we have some level of standards to keep things ethical?

That said - put me down when things start to look bad.

[laterbloomer]

Nov 1, 2023 7:44:25 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Oct 31, 2023 22:14:12 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Probably because pets don’t have assets and estates that their children are anxious to get their grubby little paws on.

It is too bad that some people ruin it for everyone else.

The right to lifers get involved too.

Years ago there was a young woman who had a catastrophic brain incident that left her bedridden and immobile other than the ability to move her eyes. Zero cognitive ability. Her husband wanted to pull her feeding tube but her mother sued to keep her alive, and a bunch of right to life people jumped on board. Husband insisted his wife would not want to continue existing like that and he ultimately prevailed after many legal hoops.

I don’t don’t think Jesus wants us to suffer like that. Just because we can medically do something doesn’t mean we should.

What gets to me is that in that situation the person is being kept alive by artificial means. That's not assisted suicide, it's just letting someone die. Let nature take it's course already!

[chiver78]

Nov 1, 2023 14:46:11 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Nov 1, 2023 7:44:25 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

The right to lifers get involved too.

Years ago there was a young woman who had a catastrophic brain incident that left her bedridden and immobile other than the ability to move her eyes. Zero cognitive ability. Her husband wanted to pull her feeding tube but her mother sued to keep her alive, and a bunch of right to life people jumped on board. Husband insisted his wife would not want to continue existing like that and he ultimately prevailed after many legal hoops.

I don’t don’t think Jesus wants us to suffer like that. Just because we can medically do something doesn’t mean we should.

What gets to me is that in that situation the person is being kept alive by artificial means. That's not assisted suicide, it's just letting someone die. Let nature take it's course already!

but, BUT! the SANCTITY OF LIFE! nevermind that there's something so important as dying with dignity, if one chooses that. 

part of the living will I've set up (with my sister as the gatekeeper. I'm hers, as she doesn't think her DH could honor our similar choices) states that I will not ever be a patient at a Catholic hospital, as they won't honor my wishes to not be kept alive by artificial means. if that means transporting me b/c that's where an ambulance brought me, take the $ out of my estate. I won't miss it. 

[happyhoix]

Nov 1, 2023 13:21:12 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Nov 1, 2023 7:44:25 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

The right to lifers get involved too.

Years ago there was a young woman who had a catastrophic brain incident that left her bedridden and immobile other than the ability to move her eyes. Zero cognitive ability. Her husband wanted to pull her feeding tube but her mother sued to keep her alive, and a bunch of right to life people jumped on board. Husband insisted his wife would not want to continue existing like that and he ultimately prevailed after many legal hoops.

I don’t don’t think Jesus wants us to suffer like that. Just because we can medically do something doesn’t mean we should.

I remember her - those fights will still occur if euthanasia was a common practice. People in families will always disagree. There are lots of people who go through the same disagreement but someone backs down before court and/or publicity. Shivo was only unusual because they activated the pro-life movement and there was no other news that week.

Policy wise, I understand why offing grandma the first time she shows a hint of decline is problematic. I think we have already proven we don’t trust doctors to make medical decisions in the gray areas. There are doctors that are willing to say anything or sign untrue statements (Covid, vaccines, masks, etc) and doctors aren’t capable of deciding when a woman’s life or safety is at risk. How do we have some level of standards to keep things ethical?

That said - put me down when things start to look bad.

Mom had a living will stating she didn’t want to be kept alive by machines. I gave that to the hospital when she went in with kidney failure- ended up not mattering because they weren’t able to insert the needle for dialysis, her veins were shot.

DH and I both have living wills, saying what we do and don’t want. Hopefully they will be honored.

[toomuchreality]

Oct 30, 2023 14:41:10 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Anyone who has ever watched a loved one die slowly from Alzheimer’s or dementia would be 100 percent pro euthanasia.

They put animals down when their lives are a misery. We’re animals too.

My thoughts exactly.
Quality of life comes into play.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 1, 2023 15:38:11 GMT -5 toomuchreality said:

Oct 30, 2023 14:41:10 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Anyone who has ever watched a loved one die slowly from Alzheimer’s or dementia would be 100 percent pro euthanasia.

They put animals down when their lives are a misery. We’re animals too.

My thoughts exactly.
Quality of life comes into play.

in the US that term only applies to the death industry.
their quality of life is excellent.
who cares about yours?