Biden student loan relief

[ripvanwinkle]

I read this today. Biden announces more student loan relief - www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-to-announce-9-billion-more-in-student-debt-relief/ar-AA1hHvXA?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=948170653d17466d98612867333f0d83&ei=88

But wait. The Supreme Court back in June shot down Biden's earlier plan. - www.scotusblog.com/2023/06/supreme-court-strikes-down-biden-student-loan-forgiveness-program/ and this - www.cnn.com/2023/06/30/politics/supreme-court-student-loan-forgiveness-biden/index.html

What changed to allow him to do this?

[minnesotapaintlady]

Nothing changed.  The forgiveness was for people that would have already qualified under other programs like PSLF program and for those in IDR that had met their 20 years of payments. 

[pulmonarymd]

Now rip is concerned about the constitution. He didn’t seem worried when Trump was shitting all over it when he wanted to fund his wall despite congress not allocating any funds

[Tiny]

Perhaps what changed was Biden's ability to work within the system and remove some of the road blocks to getting debt relief to people who really need it?

Kind of the way trump put a bunch of road blocks into place to keep that debt in place (even if the debt was due to fraud).

www.nytimes.com/2021/03/19/business/student-loan-forgiveness-betsy-devos.html

Former Education Secretary Betsy DeVos made no secret of her disdain for a program intended to forgive the federal student loans of borrowers who were ripped off by schools that defrauded their students. She called it a “free money” giveaway, let hundreds of thousands of claims languish for years and slashed the amount of relief granted to some successful applicants to $0.

Then, after a class-action lawsuit made it impossible to stall any longer, her agency built what amounted to an assembly line of rejection.

In Ms. DeVos’s final year in office, her agency denied nearly 130,000 claims — far surpassing the 9,000 rejections in the prior five years — with a system that pressured workers to speed through applications in a matter of minutes, according to internal Education Department documents filed in federal court.

[Tiny]

Perhaps what changed was Biden's ability to work within the system and remove some of the road blocks to getting debt relief to people who really need it?

Kind of the way trump put a bunch of road blocks into place to keep that debt in place; Even if the debt was due to fraud. Even if the borrowers had faithfully followed rules that would have granted them loan forgiveness but who were denied forgiveness due to errors in the system.

www.nytimes.com/2021/03/19/business/student-loan-forgiveness-betsy-devos.html

Former Education Secretary Betsy DeVos made no secret of her disdain for a program intended to forgive the federal student loans of borrowers who were ripped off by schools that defrauded their students. She called it a “free money” giveaway, let hundreds of thousands of claims languish for years and slashed the amount of relief granted to some successful applicants to $0.

Then, after a class-action lawsuit made it impossible to stall any longer, her agency built what amounted to an assembly line of rejection.

In Ms. DeVos’s final year in office, her agency denied nearly 130,000 claims — far surpassing the 9,000 rejections in the prior five years — with a system that pressured workers to speed through applications in a matter of minutes, according to internal Education Department documents filed in federal court.

[ripvanwinkle]

Oct 4, 2023 21:35:00 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Now rip is concerned about the constitution. He didn’t seem worried when Trump was shitting all over it when he wanted to fund his wall despite congress not allocating any funds

That's different. That was more of a national security issue.

[Opti]

Oct 4, 2023 22:44:48 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Oct 4, 2023 21:35:00 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Now rip is concerned about the constitution. He didn’t seem worried when Trump was shitting all over it when he wanted to fund his wall despite congress not allocating any funds

That's different. That was more of a national security issue.

And that 4% of the border that he added a wall to doesn't have seemed to make much difference, has it? Still most of the southern border has no physical manmade barrier on it.

[Opti]

Oct 4, 2023 22:25:24 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Perhaps what changed was Biden's ability to work within the system and remove some of the road blocks to getting debt relief to people who really need it?

Kind of the way trump put a bunch of road blocks into place to keep that debt in place (even if the debt was due to fraud).

www.nytimes.com/2021/03/19/business/student-loan-forgiveness-betsy-devos.html

Former Education Secretary Betsy DeVos made no secret of her disdain for a program intended to forgive the federal student loans of borrowers who were ripped off by schools that defrauded their students. She called it a “free money” giveaway, let hundreds of thousands of claims languish for years and slashed the amount of relief granted to some successful applicants to $0.

Then, after a class-action lawsuit made it impossible to stall any longer, her agency built what amounted to an assembly line of rejection.

In Ms. DeVos’s final year in office, her agency denied nearly 130,000 claims — far surpassing the 9,000 rejections in the prior five years — with a system that pressured workers to speed through applications in a matter of minutes, according to internal Education Department documents filed in federal court.

That's evil. She never struck me as a good person or even a fair one. Those predatory schools/loan programs do not deserve free money.

[pulmonarymd]

Oct 4, 2023 22:44:48 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Oct 4, 2023 21:35:00 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Now rip is concerned about the constitution. He didn’t seem worried when Trump was shitting all over it when he wanted to fund his wall despite congress not allocating any funds

That's different. That was more of a national security issue.

Doesn’t matter. If Congress didn’t appropriate the money, he cannot spend it. It is what the constitution says. It is why a shutdown is an issue. If we have no budget and we are attacked, the president ask the defense department to spend money to get more weapons? Even if it a national security issue.

But since you are “comfortably uninformed” I shouldn’t expect you to understand. But Trump shot all over the constitution, most notably by trying to overturn the constitution, and you don’t care. And he continues to tell you how he will ignore it if te-elected, and you will still vote for him. So excuse me if I do not take your concerns about whether Biden can do this with a grain of s as lt

[tbop77]

Oct 4, 2023 21:21:08 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

I read this today. Biden announces more student loan relief - www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-to-announce-9-billion-more-in-student-debt-relief/ar-AA1hHvXA?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=948170653d17466d98612867333f0d83&ei=88

But wait. The Supreme Court back in June shot down Biden's earlier plan. - www.scotusblog.com/2023/06/supreme-court-strikes-down-biden-student-loan-forgiveness-program/ and this - www.cnn.com/2023/06/30/politics/supreme-court-student-loan-forgiveness-biden/index.html

What changed to allow him to do this?

Nothing has changed.  President Biden is working to help the American people while Trump and the conservative party are busy providing a shit show.  

[djAdvocate]

the student loan debt bubble is the next one to pop, unless it gets fixed.

[happyhoix]

Oct 4, 2023 22:44:48 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Oct 4, 2023 21:35:00 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Now rip is concerned about the constitution. He didn’t seem worried when Trump was shitting all over it when he wanted to fund his wall despite congress not allocating any funds

That's different. That was more of a national security issue.

So was giving all the wealthy people and large corporations a big tax break the moment he became president a good idea? 

In case you think that big tax break was important to rev up the economy, imagine how hot the economy will get if all the people struggling to pay off student loan debt now have the budge to buy a house or new car? 

[thyme4change]

The bubble of student loans is going to be different from previous bubbles. The dot-com bust every Tom, Dick and Harry was out there buying any stock that sounded internetty. The companies had no fundamentals, and no profit. When the market crashed a bunch of average Joes were holding useless stock and lost money - some of it real. When the housing crisis happened many average homeowners got screwed because they paid the elevated prices. Also, every Tom, Dick and Harry were out there declaring themselves real estate investors and buying houses. When the bubble popped, people lost any down payments or money to do upgrades. A bunch of flippers and landlords went under. Regular people lost real money.

The student loan crisis is a little different because individuals aren’t out there buying up student loans and telling everyone how easy it is to make money doing so. The loans that will get forgiven were probably paid already, with some interest. So even the companies who hold them are really only losing paper money. And the average Joe is only benefiting from any erasure. There is only 130 billion in private loans - while a lot of money - not the kind that sinks the US economy. The big money (1.5 trillion I think) is held by the government, so would that amount just disappear? Would it create a bigger deficit?

[djAdvocate]

Oct 5, 2023 19:45:44 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

The bubble of student loans is going to be different from previous bubbles. The dot-com bust every Tom, Dick and Harry was out there buying any stock that sounded internetty. The companies had no fundamentals, and no profit. When the market crashed a bunch of average Joes were holding useless stock and lost money - some of it real. When the housing crisis happened many average homeowners got screwed because they paid the elevated prices. Also, every Tom, Dick and Harry were out there declaring themselves real estate investors and buying houses. When the bubble popped, people lost any down payments or money to do upgrades. A bunch of flippers and landlords went under. Regular people lost real money.

The student loan crisis is a little different because individuals aren’t out there buying up student loans and telling everyone how easy it is to make money doing so. The loans that will get forgiven were probably paid already, with some interest. So even the companies who hold them are really only losing paper money. And the average Joe is only benefiting from any erasure. There is only 130 billion in private loans - while a lot of money - not the kind that sinks the US economy. The big money (1.5 trillion I think) is held by the government, so would that amount just disappear? Would it create a bigger deficit?

the federal government BACKED about 28% of student loans as of 12/31/22.  my student loan was with a private lender, but had federal BACKING.

the total burden that is NOT backed by US Government is about $1T.

[djAdvocate]

i could go on a long winded tirade about student debt, it's general unfairness, and it's long term cost to the US economy, but why bother?  it is really too subtle an analysis to survive "why should we give away money to Humanities Majors?".  i get sick of defending against narrow attacks like that.

not that you would do that, thyme.  you're one of the good ones.
very thoughtful reply, as usual.

[thyme4change]

Oct 5, 2023 20:29:18 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Oct 5, 2023 19:45:44 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

The bubble of student loans is going to be different from previous bubbles. The dot-com bust every Tom, Dick and Harry was out there buying any stock that sounded internetty. The companies had no fundamentals, and no profit. When the market crashed a bunch of average Joes were holding useless stock and lost money - some of it real. When the housing crisis happened many average homeowners got screwed because they paid the elevated prices. Also, every Tom, Dick and Harry were out there declaring themselves real estate investors and buying houses. When the bubble popped, people lost any down payments or money to do upgrades. A bunch of flippers and landlords went under. Regular people lost real money.

The student loan crisis is a little different because individuals aren’t out there buying up student loans and telling everyone how easy it is to make money doing so. The loans that will get forgiven were probably paid already, with some interest. So even the companies who hold them are really only losing paper money. And the average Joe is only benefiting from any erasure. There is only 130 billion in private loans - while a lot of money - not the kind that sinks the US economy. The big money (1.5 trillion I think) is held by the government, so would that amount just disappear? Would it create a bigger deficit?

the federal government BACKED about 28% of student loans as of 12/31/22.  my student loan was with a private lender, but had federal BACKING.

the total burden that is NOT backed by US Government is about $1T.

You and I have conflicting information, although mine is definitely Google based. I did check several reputable links.




That said - I guess we need more information. We have all heard the stories that people have paid 2x the amount of their original loans, but still owe more than they started with. Is that the debt that will be bounced? Of the loans that are eligible for forgiveness how much is backed and/or owned by the government? Even if it costs a trillion real dollars, add it to the debt! If the Rs can give rich people a trillion dollars, the Ds can give a trillion to the poor people.

The real question is what percentage of the regular population is held in student loans? The total amount of wealth is 150T, and I don’t think the whole trillion in student loans is sold in traunches like mortgages were. I just don’t think a student loan bubble pop will sink the value of the average person.

[djAdvocate]

interesting.  that is definitely in conflict.

i think it makes more SENSE if you are right.  i mean, if Biden was demanding that COMPANIES unwind those loans, the courts would be packed with companies suing the government.

i am more inclined to take your word for it.

[teen persuasion]

Does any of this help?

Lending tree student loan stats

Americans own $1.77 trillion in federal and private student loan debt as of the second quarter of 2023. That’s up 1.25% from the second quarter of 2022. $128.77 billion of that total through March 31, 2023, is private student loan debt.
Students and parents borrowed an estimated $94.7 billion in the 2021-22 academic year. 46% of this was federal unsubsidized loans, 16% was federal subsidized loans, 13% was Grad PLUS loans, 13% was private or other nonfederal loans and 11% was Parent PLUS loans.
...
45.3 million borrowers have federal student debt as of the second quarter of fiscal year 2022. That’s down slightly from 45.4 million in the second quarter of fiscal year 2021.

[djAdvocate]

not exactly.  it is the private/public funds question that we were debating.