Amazon faces landmark monopoly lawsuit by FTC

[nidena]

How do you think the landscape will change if this is successful?

www.reuters.com/technology/us-sues-amazoncom-breaking-antitrust-law-harming-consumers-2023-09-26/

Amazon is a monopoly and misuses its powers, according to the FTC, which quotes a seller as saying: "We have nowhere else to go and Amazon knows it."

The lawsuit had been expected after years of complaints that Amazon.com and other tech giants abused their dominance of search, social media and online retailing to become gatekeepers on the most profitable aspects of the internet.

The need to take action against Big Tech has been one of the few ideas that Democrats and Republicans have agreed on, and the FTC chief has been particularly concerned about Amazon's power.
The lawsuit, which was joined by 17 state attorneys general, follows a four-year investigation and federal lawsuits filed against Alphabet's (GOOGL.O) Google and Meta Platforms' (META.O) Facebook.

The FTC said that it was asking the court to issue a permanent injunction ordering Amazon to stop its unlawful conduct. The lawsuit was filed in federal court in Seattle, where Amazon is based.

"Left unchecked, Amazon will continue its illegal course of conduct to maintain its monopoly power," the FTC said in its complaint which asked the court "to put an end to Amazon's illegal course of conduct, pry loose Amazon's monopolistic control, deny Amazon the fruits of its unlawful practices, and restore the lost promise of competition."
The FTC complaint asked for the court to consider "any preliminary or permanent equitable relief, including but not limited to structural relief, necessary to restore fair competition."

Structural relief in antitrust jargon generally means a company sells an asset, such as a part of its business.

[Tennesseer]

Tough to imagine a scaled down Amazon.  The vast majority of my online purchases come from Amazon.  Ease of purchase. 

[nidena]

Sept 27, 2023 19:37:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Tough to imagine a scaled down Amazon.  The vast majority of my online purchases come from Amazon.  Ease of purchase. 

I haven't bought anything off amazon in years...not since my boss gave me a $500 gift card and I used it to get a smart watch.  I mainly just use it as a place to put all the books that I want to read.  But, now that I'm using goodreads more often, that won't be necessary any longer.  It's going to take me awhile to find all 100+ books on goodreads, select "Want to Read", and then delete from my amazon shopping cart.  

[TheOtherMe]

I receive packages from Amazon at least once a week.  I don't want it to go away.  I like one stop shopping.  

For people in rural places or who live in the mountains, it's a great way to shop rather than drive several hours each way to shop.

[wvugurl26]

It's also very useful for people who don't have transportation or can't get out of the house easily. Sam's Club and Amazon saved me multiple times with my grandma. She could get the packages off the porch or out of the mailbox. It helped her to not have to rely on my aunt/uncle so much and she could take her time searching options. Going into a store and looking at options was often draining for her.

She was comfortable finding things online but relied on me to do the actual ordering.

[nidena]

I buy lots of stuff online.  VitaminShoppe, Sephora, Chewy, Staples, and numerous other places that AREN'T amazon.  lol

[billisonboard]

Sept 28, 2023 20:15:20 GMT -5 nidena said:

I buy lots of stuff online.  VitaminShoppe, Sephora, Chewy, Staples, and numerous other places that AREN'T amazon.  lol

There certainly are a lot of places other than Amazon to shop online.

[TheOtherMe]

I buy from Chewy for prescription cat food.  Most other things come from Etsy or Amazon.  

[bean29]

I buy plenty of stuff from Amazon, but I do a lot of online shopping elsewhere.

Walmart for Dog Treats. Target for household stuff, Sams Club (we have plus membership, includes free shipping), also Menards, Home Depot, Lowes for various things, Since I am petite and many stores have petite on line but not in store-White House Black Market, Talbots, Eddie Bauer (mostly outerwear), Express, Ann Taylor.

Order online pick up in store saved time. Now my husband will ask me to place a home depot order for him to pick up sometimes.

[nidena]

Sept 28, 2023 21:52:05 GMT -5 bean29 said:

I buy plenty of stuff from Amazon, but I do a lot of online shopping elsewhere.

Walmart for Dog Treats. Target for household stuff, Sams Club (we have plus membership, includes free shipping), also Menards, Home Depot, Lowes for various things, Since I am petite and many stores have petite on line but not in store-White House Black Market, Talbots, Eddie Bauer (mostly outerwear), Express, Ann Taylor.

Order online pick up in store saved time. Now my husband will ask me to place a home depot order for him to pick up sometimes.

If you're ever in Indy, we have petites in store at Talbots.  

[bean29]

Yes Talbots and Chicos are about the only stores that have Petites in stores here too. Used to have Ann Taylor also, but they left around Jan 1. Word is they will reopen for Christmas shopping season, but don’t think they are open yet. Kohls has a very limited Petites Dept now, and our Macy’s does not cary Petites in store anymore.

[chiver78]

Sept 28, 2023 20:21:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 28, 2023 20:15:20 GMT -5 nidena said:

I buy lots of stuff online.  VitaminShoppe, Sephora, Chewy, Staples, and numerous other places that AREN'T amazon.  lol

There certainly are a lot of places other than Amazon to shop online.

this is true, but I already pay for Prime to fully utilize the fire sticks on my TVs. so if it shows up in the search results when I'm looking for something to buy online, I'll at least price check to see if it's close/in line. if it is, I usually buy there as there's no free shipping minimum for me as a Prime subscriber. 

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Sept 28, 2023 20:15:20 GMT -5 nidena said:

I buy lots of stuff online.  VitaminShoppe, Sephora, Chewy, Staples, and numerous other places that AREN'T amazon.  lol

yeah, target and vitacost for me.

[Ryan]

I started selling on Amazon in 2010 and ramped up in 2013.  Around 2015-2018, Amazon was an amazing place to sell.  They took 15% of the sales, but the other fees were somewhat reasonable and you could sell SO MUCH more than any other channel.  Now Chinese manufacturers sell direct on China, so the prices have come way down.  Amazon has also started to squeeze sellers by really killing them with fees.   I think people could deal with this, but Amazon is very, very difficult to deal with.  I've heard some horror stories from sellers on them just holding sellers inventory hostage or treating them very poorly.  

But, I will say that online sellers are always going to be beholden to someone.  I have been selling online since 2004. First 10 years, pretty much all my business came through Google and other search engines. Google was so different back then, it served 10 organic results, ads were clearly labeled. Now if you search google for any product focused search, it's ALL ads.  Back then Google could pretty much wreck your business if they deranked you.

[toomuchreality]

I had 3-4 issues in a row, with purchases made on Amazon, that were caused by Amazon. Then I had issues using the credit(s) on my account. That was 4-5 years ago. So I quit using them.
I've never had a prime account, because I didn't make enough purchases to be worth the cost.

I've probably bought 3 things since then and my DD purchased them, on her prime account. And I paid her. She gets several packages every day from them. Sometimes more. But some of it is for the business they own.
Still, I'm always surprised at the number of packages and boxes that are delivered, every time I'm there.

[TheOtherMe]

I have Prime and it's well worth what I save in shipping charges.  

I did remove all of my credit cards when they charged the cost of Prime to a credit card other than my Amazon card.  I want all of my Amazon purchases on one card.  That way I know how much I am spending.

[raeoflyte]

I like Amazon but less and less of the stuff I want is there. And more and more places are offering free shipping with pretty reasonable ordering limits.

[jerseygirl]

I wouldn’t classify Amazon as a monopoly since there are many competitors. Although Amazon covers multiple categories while eg, Chewy only pets

Thinking bringing suit against Amazon is overbearing government FTC

[nidena]

Nov 15, 2023 23:50:42 GMT -5 Ryan said:

I started selling on Amazon in 2010 and ramped up in 2013.  Around 2015-2018, Amazon was an amazing place to sell.  They took 15% of the sales, but the other fees were somewhat reasonable and you could sell SO MUCH more than any other channel.  Now Chinese manufacturers sell direct on China, so the prices have come way down.  Amazon has also started to squeeze sellers by really killing them with fees.   I think people could deal with this, but Amazon is very, very difficult to deal with.  I've heard some horror stories from sellers on them just holding sellers inventory hostage or treating them very poorly.  

But, I will say that online sellers are always going to be beholden to someone.  I have been selling online since 2004. First 10 years, pretty much all my business came through Google and other search engines. Google was so different back then, it served 10 organic results, ads were clearly labeled. Now if you search google for any product focused search, it's ALL ads.  Back then Google could pretty much wreck your business if they deranked you.

I used to sell used books and movies on amazon back in 2006ish.  Then, however many years later, they made it so that you had to subscribe to be a marketplace seller.  If you're selling dozens of items, that wouldn't be a problem but I was selling just a few things now and then.  Certainly not enough to justify paying $29.95 to subscribe to the service.

Then I transitioned to ebay.  Ebay used to be a great place to sell EUC and NWT items.  Nowadays, though, it seems it's loaded with corporate kinds of resellers.  Companies that buy huge quantities of returns from other companies and then resell them.  So, where I used to be able to resell the EUC Elomi sports bra, that had only three wearings, for close to what I paid for it...those companies are selling them for 1/3 of the original price because they bought 100 of them at a time. 

So...I don't sell on either any more and haven't for more than a decade.

[TheOtherMe]

I do use Chewy for the cats, except for litter.  I can't handle the size of bags they sell.  

Once upon a time, backing in the early 2000's, I sold a lot on eBay and made money at it.  As fees for both it and Paypal increased, it became no longer profitable.

I tried selling some Beatles stuff a few years ago (when I started decluttering) and wasn't getting enough for the individual items to make it worth my time.  My time has value, too, and if you are not getting much for the item, it's not worth it.

[nidena]

Nov 16, 2023 14:18:30 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I do use Chewy for the cats, except for litter.  I can't handle the size of bags they sell.  

Once upon a time, backing in the early 2000's, I sold a lot on eBay and made money at it.  As fees for both it and Paypal increased, it became no longer profitable.

I tried selling some Beatles stuff a few years ago (when I started decluttering) and wasn't getting enough for the individual items to make it worth my time.  My time has value, too, and if you are not getting much for the item, it's not worth it.

Oh my gosh!  They are terrible about packing heavy boxes.  They SAY their boxes won't exceed 40lbs (or something like that) but if you order two 24-lb bags of litter, they sure as shit will put them BOTH in the same box.

[TheOtherMe]

Yes, they do that.  I have to open the boxes on the front porch because they are two heavy to drag in the house.  
 
Once the shipment got delayed.  When it arrived FedEx had put a note in it that a bag of litter had burst and been returned to Chewy for replacement.  It looked like Chewy used the same because because there was cat litter all over the box.  That box went to the garage when it was empty and not through the house.

[NoNamePerson]

Sept 27, 2023 9:57:50 GMT -5 nidena said:

How do you think the landscape will change if this is successful?

www.reuters.com/technology/us-sues-amazoncom-breaking-antitrust-law-harming-consumers-2023-09-26/

Amazon is a monopoly and misuses its powers, according to the FTC, which quotes a seller as saying: "We have nowhere else to go and Amazon knows it."

The lawsuit had been expected after years of complaints that Amazon.com and other tech giants abused their dominance of search, social media and online retailing to become gatekeepers on the most profitable aspects of the internet.

The need to take action against Big Tech has been one of the few ideas that Democrats and Republicans have agreed on, and the FTC chief has been particularly concerned about Amazon's power.
The lawsuit, which was joined by 17 state attorneys general, follows a four-year investigation and federal lawsuits filed against Alphabet's (GOOGL.O) Google and Meta Platforms' (META.O) Facebook.

The FTC said that it was asking the court to issue a permanent injunction ordering Amazon to stop its unlawful conduct. The lawsuit was filed in federal court in Seattle, where Amazon is based.

"Left unchecked, Amazon will continue its illegal course of conduct to maintain its monopoly power," the FTC said in its complaint which asked the court "to put an end to Amazon's illegal course of conduct, pry loose Amazon's monopolistic control, deny Amazon the fruits of its unlawful practices, and restore the lost promise of competition."
The FTC complaint asked for the court to consider "any preliminary or permanent equitable relief, including but not limited to structural relief, necessary to restore fair competition."

Structural relief in antitrust jargon generally means a company sells an asset, such as a part of its business.

Amazons Anonymous Meetings on porch at 7AM and 6PM. Feel free to wear a Amazon Box if need to disguise yourself  

[TheOtherMe]

Chewy has delivered a bag of prescription cat food this morning.  They are less costly than the vet and the bags are bigger.  Vet said they could special order the bigger bag, but it would still cost more than what Chewy charges.

Except for cat trees, etc., I get their toys off Etsy.

[jerseygirl]

OP will the landscape change?

Yes, on paper recycle day no more smiles and frowns as I drive down the street!

[Ryan]

Nov 16, 2023 13:11:27 GMT -5 nidena said:

Nov 15, 2023 23:50:42 GMT -5 Ryan said:

I started selling on Amazon in 2010 and ramped up in 2013.  Around 2015-2018, Amazon was an amazing place to sell.  They took 15% of the sales, but the other fees were somewhat reasonable and you could sell SO MUCH more than any other channel.  Now Chinese manufacturers sell direct on China, so the prices have come way down.  Amazon has also started to squeeze sellers by really killing them with fees.   I think people could deal with this, but Amazon is very, very difficult to deal with.  I've heard some horror stories from sellers on them just holding sellers inventory hostage or treating them very poorly.  

But, I will say that online sellers are always going to be beholden to someone.  I have been selling online since 2004. First 10 years, pretty much all my business came through Google and other search engines. Google was so different back then, it served 10 organic results, ads were clearly labeled. Now if you search google for any product focused search, it's ALL ads.  Back then Google could pretty much wreck your business if they deranked you.

I used to sell used books and movies on amazon back in 2006ish.  Then, however many years later, they made it so that you had to subscribe to be a marketplace seller.  If you're selling dozens of items, that wouldn't be a problem but I was selling just a few things now and then.  Certainly not enough to justify paying $29.95 to subscribe to the service.

Then I transitioned to ebay.  Ebay used to be a great place to sell EUC and NWT items.  Nowadays, though, it seems it's loaded with corporate kinds of resellers.  Companies that buy huge quantities of returns from other companies and then resell them.  So, where I used to be able to resell the EUC Elomi sports bra, that had only three wearings, for close to what I paid for it...those companies are selling them for 1/3 of the original price because they bought 100 of them at a time. 

So...I don't sell on either any more and haven't for more than a decade.

When I was selling in 2010, it was relatively easy to deal with but I don't think the volume was that crazy. It didn't really take off until Amazon Prime started becoming commonplace. At that point, if you got your product into the Amazon warehouse, it just sold itself.  

Ebay, Etsy, Walmart, and Amazon pretty much have the same sellers at this point.  

[movingforward]

I mainly use Amazon for stuff I can't find anywhere else. For example, I have very sensitive skin and the face wash I use was suddenly not available anywhere but I can find it on Amazon. Same with my hair conditioner. I also use it for the "oh, crap I forgot to get X when I was at Target yesterday. Don't feel like going back just for one item. I'll just order it on Amazon."

The fact I can get things the next day, and sometimes even the same day, definitely makes it even more appealing.

Even though I still like shopping in person not having the convenience of Amazon would really suck.

ETA: And I Love Chewy!

[bean29]

I saw that amazon will start selling Hyundai cars soon. Hows that for a monopoly

[billisonboard]

Nov 18, 2023 13:36:12 GMT -5 bean29 said:

I saw that amazon will start selling Hyundai cars soon. Hows that for a monopoly

Are they going to become the only way to buy a car or even a Hyundai?

[soupandstew]

While I recognize the concerns about Amazon as a monopoly, for me they are a major convenience.  I needed 2, 5-inch binders, 32 erasable tabbed dividers, and 3 reams of copy paper.  I had a choice to drive 25 minutes each way to an OfficeMax/Office Depot thing which might or might not have the binders or dividers, or to have Amazon put it on my doorstep in a couple of days.  Ditto my a/c filters, my air purifier filters and a lot of other basics so I don't spend 1/2 my day behind the wheel and the other 1/2 behind a shopping cart at 15 different stores.