School vacations

[ripvanwinkle]

Now that the summer vacation is over I have 2 grand kids in School. In December my daughter wants to come and see her mom and me. The kids have a 3 week vacation. Why do schools have such a long vacation. It seems there is a learning loss. I've heard other countries have year round schools. Why don't we? Is this a thing with the teachers unions?

[billisonboard]

Sept 4, 2023 15:01:43 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Now that the summer vacation is over I have 2 grand kids in School. In December my daughter wants to come and see her mom and me. The kids have a 3 week vacation. Why do schools have such a long vacation. It seems there is a learning loss. I've heard other countries have year round schools. Why don't we? Is this a thing with the teachers unions?

Yes, there is documented learning loss.

I think tradition is the first major issue. America was still an agricultural society when public schools were established and kids were needed in the fields. An additional issue tied to tradition is the need for teachers to take continuing education classes. Colleges were available for having them on campus during summers. Online options make this not a big deal any longer. I know that the expense of air conditioning has been an issue in some areas.

[Tiny]

It's not a thing with teacher unions (but they may have some say in it).  I know my State has requirements for how many days (and what constitutes a "day in the classroom") kids have to be in school. OK. Public School. Maybe private schools are different. I think there are also some requirements for students being in the classroom X amount of time for the Public schools to be eligible for Federal money. Maybe it's State money. It's been awhile since I went down the rabbit hole of how exactly it works for my State/School Districts.   Teacher unions can't change the number of days kids are in school.  They can effect what days the kids are in school though. 

Rip can easily go down the Rabbit Hole and can find the information on the how the "school year" works and how funding works for his grandkid's State/city/school district. Even if it's a Private School. That will tell him WHY the kids get a 3 week winter break.



One of the weirder things I remember from that very bumpy unpleasant tumble down public school education and "requirements" was for some school districts in my State often time, handfuls of miss days before and after breaks like Christmas/Winter or Easter/Spring were happening because many families were leaving early for "vacation" or returning late from "vacation". Lots of kids were missing days of school around the winter/spring breaks. And depending on the school district and the requirements - having X number of kids missing from school more than Y number of days of school - meant the PUBLIC school might loose some of it's eligibility for state/federal money. Kids leaving early and/or returning late from breaks (missing days of school) counted towards that required number of kids/days to be eligible for money for the school(s).  

There is A LOT of bureaucracy when it comes to Public Schools in America - and I'm sure some of it effects Private Schools.

I'm guessing longer winter/spring breaks (and a slightly longer school year - so the kids get their allotted "in school" days) is perhaps ONE reason for the longer breaks. f


I could be totally off base with the above.... I went down the rabbit hole about 10 years ago and things change/perhaps I misunderstood/misinterpreted what I was reading.

(I still find it kind of goofy that kids in my local public grade school district won't have 5 full days of school in a row until the middle of October. They start out with three 1/2 days of schools, and then there are 2 "institute days" where they are not in the classroom and then additional 1/2 days of school thru the month of September and early October.

[TheOtherMe]

I don't think any district in my state has year round school.  A big reason is the buildings are not air conditioned.  

The Christmas break may seem long but with the entitled children of today and parents who have kids who never do anything wrong, teachers need a break.  

Our governor downgraded the educational requirements to teach and sub.  No education courses are needed if you want to be a teacher.  No college degree is required if you want to sub.

Changed continuing education rules too.  DN3's wife has been teaching for 10 years.  This is her 11th year.  After 10 years, she no longer has to do continuing education.  

[ripvanwinkle]

My daughter last week sent me the girls school calendar. I was amazed at how many partial days there were and Friday "Instructional" days for the teachers there were. I read them as just wanting a 3 day weekend.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 4, 2023 15:01:43 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Now that the summer vacation is over I have 2 grand kids in School. In December my daughter wants to come and see her mom and me. The kids have a 3 week vacation. Why do schools have such a long vacation. It seems there is a learning loss. I've heard other countries have year round schools. Why don't we? Is this a thing with the teachers unions?

Here's a tip to help you in your own research:

Chances are the posters here don't have children or grandchildren in the same school district as your grandchildren. So I suggest you ask your grand children's mother to find out why her kids' school district has a three week vacation.

Good luck.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Sept 4, 2023 16:10:09 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

My daughter last week sent me the girls school calendar. I was amazed at how many partial days there were and Friday "Instructional" days for the teachers there were. I read them as just wanting a 3 day weekend.

You know what they say about assuming.

[MarionTh230]

We get close to 3 weeks at the end of the year.  It's 13 total school days they will be out for.  It wasn't always that way and it has changed over the years to get us to this long of a break over the holidays.  If we get bad weather (hurricane) the kids miss a lot of school.  There are extra non-school days built into the academic calendar because of that.  They will claw those days back and make them in-school-instructional-days if something really severe happens since we have to have a certain number of instructional days per year to satisfy both the state and federal governments.

While all districts are indeed different, most districts have taken the approach of setting the calendar up so that they can have a certain number of "extra" days built into the year.  Some districts do that by having more actual school days than they need and then cancelling school for weather (say like snow days).  Districts like ours take the approach of building in extra non-school days that they can then turn into instructional days if needed.

We have one school in our district that is on a year round calendar.  I have not chosen to move my child to that school.  I like the breaks.  As a person working in corporate America, I am allowed, and expected in most cases, to take a certain number of vacation days throughout the calendar year.  Kids in public school are expected to be there for just about every day.  Excused absences are extremely limited.  Having sufficient breaks during the year - not just summer vacation - allow for appropriate stress free down time and the opportunity for us to take a vacation as a family. 

My child has no living grandparents.  If I would have known what I know now, I would have used every single out of school day for me and my child to spend with my child's grandparent.  Unfortunately, life doesn't work that way.

[Tiny]

Sept 4, 2023 16:10:09 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

My daughter last week sent me the girls school calendar. I was amazed at how many partial days there were and Friday "Instructional" days for the teachers there were. I read them as just wanting a 3 day weekend.

Depending on your State - teachers may be required to complete some amount of hours of professional development work.   In Illinois it's 120 hours.  That's required every year along with teaching.  That's 15 eight hour days over the course of a year.     Some of the Instructional days for teachers help them fulfill that requirement.    I  believe they are required to accomplish any remaining professional development work on their own time.     
 

[TheOtherMe]

In the district where I live, school stars an hour late on Friday.  The staff reports at the regular time for professional development.

Here there must be so many instructional hours per school year.  If kids are in school for an hour or two, that day doesn't count.

Schools have been open here for 2 weeks.  They have had 3 early outs for heat.  Not all buildings are air conditioned and the temps were 100 degrees.  They already have hours to make up.  They do have a certain number of days built in to the schedule for those.  

If it's a really bad year, they have gone to school over Christmas and Spring break.  They also had the school day last an hour longer and they have had classes on Saturday.

The district where I live is the largest in square miles.  It's very hilly farmland so if there is much snow or ice, the buses can't run and school is called off.  

The heat days are usually at the end of the school year, not in the beginning of the school year.

Teachers have so many hours they have been contracted to work.  They are not getting weekend on "instructional" days.

[TheOtherMe]

Schools have a 2 hour early out because of the heat today.  

[Tennesseer]

Sept 4, 2023 16:20:28 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 4, 2023 15:01:43 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Now that the summer vacation is over I have 2 grand kids in School. In December my daughter wants to come and see her mom and me. The kids have a 3 week vacation. Why do schools have such a long vacation. It seems there is a learning loss. I've heard other countries have year round schools. Why don't we? Is this a thing with the teachers unions?

Here's a tip to help you in your own research:

Chances are the posters here don't have children or grandchildren in the same school district as your grandchildren. So I suggest you ask your grand children's mother to find out why her kids' school district has a three week vacation.

Good luck.

No response, Rip?

Did your daughter call the school board's office yet and ask them about the three week vacation?

[thyme4change]

Three weeks doesn’t seem like a lot to me. I think everyone could benefit from a decent break every year. Summer is long and definitely has a learning loss.

As far as the agrarian calendar - I have heard it isn’t true - it was really just rich white families that wanted to summer at the beach that influenced the calendar. I don’t know anything about farming - but it seems quite dependent on region and crop.

www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/09/04/myth-behind-summer-break/

www.pbs.org/newshour/education/debunking-myth-summer-vacation

Here is another article questioning the validity of farming as the reason for summer - this one is talking about the UK.

www.hotelchocolat.com/uk/blog/events/why-do-summer-holidays-exist.html#:~:text=The%20most%20common%20argument%20used,their%20parents%20in%20the%20fields.