Why is toxic patriarchy making a comeback?

[Tennesseer]

Why is toxic patriarchy making a comeback?

Toxic, Christian patriarchy is making a comeback with younger millennials and Gen Z. Scroll through Christian Twitter, and you’ll find men and women ideologically and radically committed to traditional gender roles, lamenting the sins of yoga pants, makeupless wives, and feminized masculinity. The men extol the virtues of virility, headship, and physical labor, admonishing women to become quiet, submissive homemakers.

Women proudly don the title “patriarchalist” in their bios and share memes obsessing over hyper-feminine images of homemaking mothers. Some even follow accounts like this one, which encourages women not to hold marital rape against their husbands.

In a viral tweet, one rising star in the movement wrote that the only “acceptable occasion” to wear yoga pants is when a woman is “alone in the house” with her husband. Another writes regularly of Christian women who are chaste, gentle, and feminine.

A woman may feel called by God to eliminate yoga pants from her public wardrobe, but the explicit claim on their morality is concerning. Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with the virtues in the latter example, but many women simply don’t fit the stereotypical examples of femininity, and that’s OK.

This leads me to Turning Point USA’s recent Young Women’s Leadership Conference. An audience member asked TPUSA founder Charlie Kirk how she could balance her career ambitions with those of motherhood. Quick to crush her dreams, Kirk told her she’d have to choose, and if she wanted happiness, a career wasn’t the answer.

Rest of article here: Why is toxic patriarchy making a comeback?

[tractor]

Strange, but we see swings in likes/dislikes throughout all generations.

[toomuchreality]

Tennesseer
Did you find a rabbit hole to go down? What's with the wacky religious articles?

People can be weird. Not saying you are. But the people in this article sound pretty out there.

[Tennesseer]

Jun 19, 2023 12:51:06 GMT -5 toomuchreality said:

Tennesseer
Did you find a rabbit hole to go down? What's with the wacky religious articles?

People can be weird. Not saying you are. But the people in this article sound pretty out there.

Just people acting badly day. That is all.

[toomuchreality]

Jun 19, 2023 13:26:38 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jun 19, 2023 12:51:06 GMT -5 toomuchreality said:

Tennesseer
Did you find a rabbit hole to go down? What's with the wacky religious articles?

People can be weird. Not saying you are. But the people in this article sound pretty out there.

Just people acting badly day. That is all.

Okay. Just checking.
I don't wear yoga pants out in public, but God and religion have nothing to do with it. I'd be embarrassed.

[billisonboard]

Jun 19, 2023 11:14:56 GMT -5 tractor said:

Strange, but we see swings in likes/dislikes throughout all generations.

There are also swings in media attention. "Is something actually experiencing a comeback or is it simply receiving current media attention" is always a good question. That being said, it is an interesting happening.

[anciana]

I don’t think it’s necessarily making a comeback as it’s always been there, I don’t think it ever disappeared

[djAdvocate]

fetishes are fine with me.  as long as you don't demand that i indulge in yours.

[chiver78]

this stuff makes me absolutely crazy. 

and, without hijacking the thread, have any of you watched Shiny Happy People? it's the docu of the IBLP (Duggar family cult) that's available on Amazon Prime. it explored more than just the Duggars, and dove deeper into the basis of the cult and its founder. I never watched any of the TLC shows, but somehow started following the news when the oldest son came under scrutiny for having molested his sisters. I'm so happy the married daughters have gotten away from all of it, and I'm really hoping the oldest "old maid" daughter can escape as well. 

[djAdvocate]

i know just enough about the Duggar boy to think nothing positive of the Duggars.

the quiverfull/evangelical movement in the US is more terrifying than radical Islam.

[tallguy]

Why is toxic patriarchy making a comeback?

Weak men, with very misguided opinions and values and little real belief in themselves.  And no, fake bravado doesn't count.  Society is changing, becoming more open and equal.  They can't abide that, knowing that it will cost them power and privilege.  They also know that they cannot "climb the rungs of society" legitimately, so need to beat others down and pile the corpses in front to use as stepping stones.  Weak women go along, ensuring their own privilege by association.  Doing it under the guise of religion merely adds another layer of exploitation.  

How's that for the short version?

[chiver78]

Jun 19, 2023 14:33:12 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Why is toxic patriarchy making a comeback?

Weak men, with very misguided opinions and values and little real belief in themselves.  And no, fake bravado doesn't count.  Society is changing, becoming more open and equal.  They can't abide that, knowing that it will cost them power and privilege.  They also know that they cannot "climb the rungs of society" legitimately, so need to beat others down and pile the corpses in front to use as stepping stones.  Weak women go along, ensuring their own privilege by association.  Doing it under the guise of religion merely adds another layer of exploitation.  

How's that for the short version?

but why are the women buying into it? that's what I can't wrap my brain around. 

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Jun 19, 2023 14:46:47 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jun 19, 2023 14:33:12 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Weak men, with very misguided opinions and values and little real belief in themselves.  And no, fake bravado doesn't count.  Society is changing, becoming more open and equal.  They can't abide that, knowing that it will cost them power and privilege.  They also know that they cannot "climb the rungs of society" legitimately, so need to beat others down and pile the corpses in front to use as stepping stones.  Weak women go along, ensuring their own privilege by association.  Doing it under the guise of religion merely adds another layer of exploitation.  

How's that for the short version?

but why are the women buying into it? that's what I can't wrap my brain around. 

I suspect they have been cultured into it from childhood by their own families and don’t realize their own empowering options. Call it brainwashing if you will. Some time ago, wasn’t there a topic of conversation on here regarding the creepiness of those chastity events? (I can’t quite remember the term)

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 19, 2023 14:46:47 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jun 19, 2023 14:33:12 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Weak men, with very misguided opinions and values and little real belief in themselves.  And no, fake bravado doesn't count.  Society is changing, becoming more open and equal.  They can't abide that, knowing that it will cost them power and privilege.  They also know that they cannot "climb the rungs of society" legitimately, so need to beat others down and pile the corpses in front to use as stepping stones.  Weak women go along, ensuring their own privilege by association.  Doing it under the guise of religion merely adds another layer of exploitation.  

How's that for the short version?

but why are the women buying into it? that's what I can't wrap my brain around. 

I forgot which book I was reading but it's like this:

I am a white cis-heterosexual female who was baptized Christian.  I got three things going for me in society that put me above other people and give me crumbs of privilege.  If I decide to pull the Christian card I got four.

In exchange for "knowing my place" as a woman these men deem to let me continue having the crumbs I get for only having four out of five approved traits for holding power and privilege in our society.  If I do not want those crumbs to go away it is in my best interest to look the other way regarding how they treat me because I have a uterus.

I may be second class as a woman but I am still above the brown women, lesbians, atheists and transexual people on the social ladder.   I know statistically speaking I am still more likely to get the job or promotion or raise.  I won't get as much as the white dudes but I still get "more" even if "more" is an illusion.

It's the same fear that motivates the men to join these groups.  Someone else getting the same opportunities as me means I must be getting less.  I cannot compete against that person on truly equal footing so I must do everything I can to keep them as far underneath me as possible even if it means attaching my star to the very people who seek to oppress me because of my gender.

I get the benefit of keeping the status quo in place and any favor tossed my way for being a good little lap dog.

[chiver78]

Jun 19, 2023 15:02:18 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jun 19, 2023 14:46:47 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

but why are the women buying into it? that's what I can't wrap my brain around. 

I forgot which book I was reading but it's like this:

I am a white cis-heterosexual female who was baptized Christian.  I got three things going for me in society that put me above other people and give me crumbs of privilege.  If I decide to pull the Christian card I got four.

In exchange for "knowing my place" as a woman these men deem to let me continue having the crumbs I get for only having four out of five approved traits for holding power and privilege in our society.  If I do not want those crumbs to go away it is in my best interest to look the other way regarding how they treat me because I have a uterus.

I may be second class as a woman but I am still above the brown women, lesbians, atheists and transexual people on the social ladder.   I know statistically speaking I am still more likely to get the job or promotion or raise.  I won't get as much as the white dudes but I still get "more" even if "more" is an illusion.

It's the same fear that motivates the men to join these groups.  Someone else getting the same opportunities as me means I must be getting less.  I cannot compete against that person on truly equal footing so I must do everything I can to keep them as far underneath me as possible even if it means attaching my star to the very people who seek to oppress me because of my gender.

I get the benefit of keeping the status quo in place and being a good little lap dog.

oh, I get that. but at some point, you've gotta have some sort of goals. I hold a BS degree, I know you do as well. the house I currently live in is the fourth property I have purchased as a single woman. I can't fathom wrapping my own self worth around relying on anyone else. I guess these people would blame my mom for bringing me up to be self-supportive, after she lost her own dad at age 11. b/c my god-fearing RC dad apparently didn't have a loud enough voice to keep my mom in line. 

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 19, 2023 15:02:18 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jun 19, 2023 14:46:47 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

but why are the women buying into it? that's what I can't wrap my brain around. 

I forgot which book I was reading but it's like this:

I am a white cis-heterosexual female who was baptized Christian.  I got three things going for me in society that put me above other people and give me crumbs of privilege.  If I decide to pull the Christian card I got four.

In exchange for "knowing my place" as a woman these men deem to let me continue having the crumbs I get for only having four out of five approved traits for holding power and privilege in our society.  If I do not want those crumbs to go away it is in my best interest to look the other way regarding how they treat me because I have a uterus.

I may be second class as a woman but I am still above the brown women, lesbians, atheists and transexual people on the social ladder.   I know statistically speaking I am still more likely to get the job or promotion or raise.  I won't get as much as the white dudes but I still get "more" even if "more" is an illusion.

It's the same fear that motivates the men to join these groups.  Someone else getting the same opportunities as me means I must be getting less.  I cannot compete against that person on truly equal footing so I must do everything I can to keep them as far underneath me as possible even if it means attaching my star to the very people who seek to oppress me because of my gender.

I get the benefit of keeping the status quo in place and any favor tossed my way for being a good little lap dog.

Nice of us to be so generous, isn't it?

I think this is part of the larger culture going on now. It is the grievances the Republicans are feeding their flock. You are having a hard time getting ahead, well that must be the woke, liberal, coastal elite liberals who are helping those black and brown people and women getting an unfair advantage. Through in conservative christianity, and you get these backwards looking ideas about how things should be. I have worked with so many talented women physcians, the idea that they should know their place is absurd.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 19, 2023 15:06:35 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jun 19, 2023 15:02:18 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I forgot which book I was reading but it's like this:

I am a white cis-heterosexual female who was baptized Christian.  I got three things going for me in society that put me above other people and give me crumbs of privilege.  If I decide to pull the Christian card I got four.

In exchange for "knowing my place" as a woman these men deem to let me continue having the crumbs I get for only having four out of five approved traits for holding power and privilege in our society.  If I do not want those crumbs to go away it is in my best interest to look the other way regarding how they treat me because I have a uterus.

I may be second class as a woman but I am still above the brown women, lesbians, atheists and transexual people on the social ladder.   I know statistically speaking I am still more likely to get the job or promotion or raise.  I won't get as much as the white dudes but I still get "more" even if "more" is an illusion.

It's the same fear that motivates the men to join these groups.  Someone else getting the same opportunities as me means I must be getting less.  I cannot compete against that person on truly equal footing so I must do everything I can to keep them as far underneath me as possible even if it means attaching my star to the very people who seek to oppress me because of my gender.

I get the benefit of keeping the status quo in place and being a good little lap dog.

oh, I get that. but at some point, you've gotta have some sort of goals. I hold a BS degree, I know you do as well. the house I currently live in is the fourth property I have purchased as a single woman. I can't fathom wrapping my own self worth around relying on anyone else. I guess these people would blame my mom for bringing me up to be self-supportive, after she lost her own dad at age 11. b/c my god-fearing RC dad apparently didn't have a loud enough voice to keep my mom in line. 

I don't get it either because I never have been that way and never will.   I see through the illusion.  I want a seat at the table and I know the only way to get it is to demand it.  I refuse to lick a man's shoes for crumbs.

These people do have goals, dangerous goals.  To continue to consolidate power and privilege into the hands of an elite few.  In exchange they get whatever that few toss their way.  It is a fair trade off to make sure that those "others" never forget their place.  It's about dominance over someone, anyone and the ability to say at least you are better than that person over there.

That's why Trump is so appealing.  He promises a return to the good old days.  When men could work 40 hour jobs for $5/hr and afford a white picket fence house and two kids.  Women could stay home and be wives/mothers without a care in the world.  Everyone else stayed on the back of the bus or in the closet where God intended them to be.  No need to be forced to question everything you believe in because what you believe is the only acceptable way to think.

They really believe they are doing God's work.  That is the goal.  Too bad like my contemporary religion professor said in order to achieve that goal they are ignoring 99.9% of the teachings of Jesus.

[chiver78]

Jun 19, 2023 15:30:05 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jun 19, 2023 15:06:35 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

oh, I get that. but at some point, you've gotta have some sort of goals. I hold a BS degree, I know you do as well. the house I currently live in is the fourth property I have purchased as a single woman. I can't fathom wrapping my own self worth around relying on anyone else. I guess these people would blame my mom for bringing me up to be self-supportive, after she lost her own dad at age 11. b/c my god-fearing RC dad apparently didn't have a loud enough voice to keep my mom in line. 

I don't get it either because I never have been that way and never will.   I see through the illusion.  I want a seat at the table and I know the only way to get it is to demand it.  I refuse to lick a man's shoes for crumbs.

These people do have goals, dangerous goals.  To continue to consolidate power and privilege into the hands of an elite few.  In exchange they get whatever that few toss their way.  It is a fair trade off to make sure that those "others" never forget their place.  It's about dominance over someone, anyone and the ability to say at least you are better than that person over there.

That's why Trump is so appealing.  He promises a return to the good old days.  When men could work 40 hour jobs for $5/hr and afford a white picket fence house and two kids.  Women could stay home and be wives/mothers without a care in the world.  Everyone else stayed on the back of the bus or in the closet where God intended them to be.  No need to be forced to question everything you believe in because what you believe is the only acceptable way to think.

They really believe they are doing God's work.  That is the goal.  Too bad like my contemporary religion professor said in order to achieve that goal they are ignoring 99.9% of the teachings of Jesus.

this is what frosts my ass about all of this. they wave around this book, written by man, that none of them follow. and then they expect us to follow their book as law, and we're heathens when we protest. I'll proudly wear that heathen badge as I question why their god is the correct one, when there's so many others people worship. I don't worship any of them, but recognize the right to worship as you choose. and none of those holy books belong in our laws. 

[djAdvocate]

Jun 19, 2023 14:33:12 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Why is toxic patriarchy making a comeback?

Weak men, with very misguided opinions and values and little real belief in themselves.  And no, fake bravado doesn't count.  Society is changing, becoming more open and equal.  They can't abide that, knowing that it will cost them power and privilege.  They also know that they cannot "climb the rungs of society" legitimately, so need to beat others down and pile the corpses in front to use as stepping stones.  Weak women go along, ensuring their own privilege by association.  Doing it under the guise of religion merely adds another layer of exploitation.  

How's that for the short version?

cannot?  i am not sure about that.

i think they can.  but they are afraid that if they HAVE TO they will fail.

guess what?  everyone else other than white dudes fear that as their birthright.

this is why the word FAIR doesn't resonate with Trump voters.  they don't believe in FAIR.

i agree with everything else you said, tho.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 19, 2023 14:46:47 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jun 19, 2023 14:33:12 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Weak men, with very misguided opinions and values and little real belief in themselves.  And no, fake bravado doesn't count.  Society is changing, becoming more open and equal.  They can't abide that, knowing that it will cost them power and privilege.  They also know that they cannot "climb the rungs of society" legitimately, so need to beat others down and pile the corpses in front to use as stepping stones.  Weak women go along, ensuring their own privilege by association.  Doing it under the guise of religion merely adds another layer of exploitation.  

How's that for the short version?

but why are the women buying into it? that's what I can't wrap my brain around. 

because they cynically believe it is their best path forward.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 19, 2023 15:06:35 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jun 19, 2023 15:02:18 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I forgot which book I was reading but it's like this:

I am a white cis-heterosexual female who was baptized Christian.  I got three things going for me in society that put me above other people and give me crumbs of privilege.  If I decide to pull the Christian card I got four.

In exchange for "knowing my place" as a woman these men deem to let me continue having the crumbs I get for only having four out of five approved traits for holding power and privilege in our society.  If I do not want those crumbs to go away it is in my best interest to look the other way regarding how they treat me because I have a uterus.

I may be second class as a woman but I am still above the brown women, lesbians, atheists and transexual people on the social ladder.   I know statistically speaking I am still more likely to get the job or promotion or raise.  I won't get as much as the white dudes but I still get "more" even if "more" is an illusion.

It's the same fear that motivates the men to join these groups.  Someone else getting the same opportunities as me means I must be getting less.  I cannot compete against that person on truly equal footing so I must do everything I can to keep them as far underneath me as possible even if it means attaching my star to the very people who seek to oppress me because of my gender.

I get the benefit of keeping the status quo in place and being a good little lap dog.

oh, I get that. but at some point, you've gotta have some sort of goals. I hold a BS degree, I know you do as well. the house I currently live in is the fourth property I have purchased as a single woman. I can't fathom wrapping my own self worth around relying on anyone else. I guess these people would blame my mom for bringing me up to be self-supportive, after she lost her own dad at age 11. b/c my god-fearing RC dad apparently didn't have a loud enough voice to keep my mom in line. 

consecutive or cumulative?

[scgal]

From what I gather these people are living their lives the way they want. I tcan be a growing community. I think the frosting of asses is because they contradict what is the societal norm now. I view it like transgenders in a traditional marriage it works for them. The people who can't stand that is because it goes against their perception of tradition marriage. 

[chiver78]

Jun 19, 2023 15:54:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 19, 2023 14:46:47 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

but why are the women buying into it? that's what I can't wrap my brain around. 

because they cynically believe it is their best path forward.

that's more pitiful to me than maddening. have faith in your own intelligence and ambition. 

[chiver78]

Jun 19, 2023 15:59:05 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 19, 2023 15:06:35 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

oh, I get that. but at some point, you've gotta have some sort of goals. I hold a BS degree, I know you do as well. the house I currently live in is the fourth property I have purchased as a single woman. I can't fathom wrapping my own self worth around relying on anyone else. I guess these people would blame my mom for bringing me up to be self-supportive, after she lost her own dad at age 11. b/c my god-fearing RC dad apparently didn't have a loud enough voice to keep my mom in line. 

consecutive or cumulative?

consecutive, although the next moves will become cumulative. I bought my first condo at age 22. 

[chiver78]

Jun 19, 2023 16:02:55 GMT -5 scgal said:

From what I gather these people are living their lives the way they want. I tcan be a growing community. I think the frosting of asses is because they contradict what is the societal norm now. I view it like transgenders in a traditional marriage it works for them. The people who can't stand that is because it goes against their perception of tradition marriage. 

then they can live their lives the way they want. leave the laws alone and don't expect the rest of us to live OUR lives to THEIR book. 

[Opti]

Jun 19, 2023 16:02:55 GMT -5 scgal said:

From what I gather these people are living their lives the way they want. I tcan be a growing community. I think the frosting of asses is because they contradict what is the societal norm now. I view it like transgenders in a traditional marriage it works for them. The people who can't stand that is because it goes against their perception of tradition marriage. 

I think mostly the men in charge are living their lives the way they want. Women escape from these cults and write tell all books about the abuse and the rules. If you are born into something like this, you aren't making an informed choice to live this way. It is chosen for you by the leaders of the cult du jour. Men on the bottom generally don't live that great either. Many are forced/told to give up a wife and or daughter for a fearless leader's sexual pleasure. These cults are almost textbook on how to groom young people to be taken advantage of sexually.

The Amish at least are more honest and have rumspringa to allow their young people at least a taste of another reality.
I'm guessing you've missed the Duggar daughters who have escaped and how some of their husbands have talked about the crazy?

[Tennesseer]

Jun 19, 2023 14:31:34 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i know just enough about the Duggar boy to think nothing positive of the Duggars.

the quiverfull/evangelical movement in the US is more terrifying than radical Islam.

Ditto.

[Tennesseer]

If anyone has not seen the movie Women Talking, they should. Won the 2023 Academy Award for best adapted screenplay. Excellent movie. Well worth one's time.

Subect matter is very similar to this thread's subject.

[scgal]

Jun 19, 2023 16:07:56 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jun 19, 2023 16:02:55 GMT -5 scgal said:

From what I gather these people are living their lives the way they want. I tcan be a growing community. I think the frosting of asses is because they contradict what is the societal norm now. I view it like transgenders in a traditional marriage it works for them. The people who can't stand that is because it goes against their perception of tradition marriage. 

then they can live their lives the way they want. leave the laws alone and don't expect the rest of us to live OUR lives to THEIR book. 

I didn't see anything mentioned about changing the laws for acceptance

[scgal]

Jun 19, 2023 16:08:12 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jun 19, 2023 16:02:55 GMT -5 scgal said:

From what I gather these people are living their lives the way they want. I tcan be a growing community. I think the frosting of asses is because they contradict what is the societal norm now. I view it like transgenders in a traditional marriage it works for them. The people who can't stand that is because it goes against their perception of tradition marriage. 

I think mostly the men in charge are living their lives the way they want. Women escape from these cults and write tell all books about the abuse and the rules. If you are born into something like this, you aren't making an informed choice to live this way. It is chosen for you by the leaders of the cult du jour. Men on the bottom generally don't live that great either. Many are forced/told to give up a wife and or daughter for a fearless leader's sexual pleasure. These cults are almost textbook on how to groom young people to be taken advantage of sexually.

The Amish at least are more honest and have rumspringa to allow their young people at least a taste of another reality.
I'm guessing you've missed the Duggar daughters who have escaped and how some of their husbands have talked about the crazy?

It doesn't mean that every family is like that. You mentioned the Duggars they are not the rule.