Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,772
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
Member is Online
|
Post by Opti on Jun 6, 2023 19:14:07 GMT -5
i can't figure out if they are trolling us or if they actually believe that crap. Given the discussions I have had with patients, scientific illiteracy is rampant. There is no doubt they believe this stuff. And the more you try to show them they are wrong, the more entrenched they become Unless I work with them often, I now just raise an eyebrow and change the subject.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,772
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
Member is Online
|
Post by Opti on Jun 6, 2023 19:16:52 GMT -5
I'll have to find the title but I just read a book about Flat earthers. People who already believe in conspiracy theories are more prone to believe it because if the government lied about X what else are they lying about? It's also becoming a thinly veiled disguise for hate groups who have found an easily manipulated and highly suggestive audience. Things like Holocaust denial are showing up hand in hand with things like flat earth. Anti vaccine is another one. It was a fascinating book and a truly frightening book. We're in freaking trouble as a society if we don't start slapping this shit down. They aren't fringe looney tunes anymore they are elected officials.ETA: Found it it's called Off The Edge by Kelly Weill Strongly disagree, they are fringe looney tunes folks that have figured out how to get elected in their part of crazy town. How else do we explain Ted Cruz, MGT, DeSantis (he's shark jumped so much its a wonder he has any underwear at all at this point), etc.
|
|
teen persuasion
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:49 GMT -5
Posts: 4,055
|
Post by teen persuasion on Jun 7, 2023 21:14:32 GMT -5
This may be out there, but is the reason they object to the earth being a "globe" somehow related to the idea of globalism?
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,231
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jun 7, 2023 22:00:16 GMT -5
there is so little in terms of what i think is possible for people to think that i will say NO to, anymore.
|
|
laterbloomer
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 26, 2018 0:50:42 GMT -5
Posts: 4,350
|
Post by laterbloomer on Jun 8, 2023 8:51:29 GMT -5
I still get stuck on why anyone would lie about it. What could possibly be gained by saying the world is round if it was really flat? Or what is gained if the world is flat.
I don't really spend much time thinking about it. There are so many more important current issues to focus on.
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,372
|
Post by Tiny on Jun 8, 2023 9:08:49 GMT -5
I had asked one to show me a picture of the ice wall and he said he had a bunch of them, so he comes back with a pic that is obviously the Antarctic ice wall and when I pointed that out, this is what I got. I mean where do you even start?!?
This made my brain hurt.... but it does seem to illustrate the "logic" being used... it feels counter intuitive that if the earth was round and spinning that something "on the bottom half of the sphere" would act the same as we can see it here (on what appears to be a flat surface.). I guess this is an example of where an explanation of the scientific method might come in handy - but I suspect the quoted writer won't want to hear it (it might conflict with their religious or cultural beliefs). I think you should really blow this person's mind by mentioning solar cooking - I routinely put a box with a black interior with a glass hinged door for it's top on the sidewalk during the day in my back yard and cook food in it... chicken, rice, cookies, meatloaf, hotdogs, mmmm tender pot roast, etc... Oh, it does have some reflectors attached at the top to help direct sunlight into the box. Tell them I'm a powerful Magus. After all you can't cook a pot roast in your car on a sunny day (a box with glass that lets sunlight into the box) . Solar cooking is so NOT intuitive it looks like magic. There's NO heat source for that box. There's no connection to electric or propane or charcoal or anything. It's a box with a glass (or tempered glass) top and a black interior.
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,372
|
Post by Tiny on Jun 8, 2023 9:14:52 GMT -5
This may be out there, but is the reason they object to the earth being a "globe" somehow related to the idea of globalism? I think most of the "proof" that the earth is flat consists of semantics and partial truths and limited first hand experience (personal experience). After all when you look around and travel any great distance by car - the earth looks and feels "flat". A friend taught 4th graders - and the kids had been so use to seeing the world laid out flat (maps, etc) that some of them did think the world was flat - that it looked like the maps on the class room wall. They also had trouble realizing that Canada was attached to America (or that Mexico was attached - even if they had come from Mexico or a South American Country) and that Alaska was an island like Hawaii - when they where learning the States and their Capitols - because of the worksheets AND the way weather maps are presented on TV and such. We talk about the earth as being round and countries being connected - but we often show/talk about the earth in a different way to illustrate different things about it - or to "put info in an easy to digest way". There's some weird truth to "seeing is believing".
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jun 8, 2023 13:43:08 GMT -5
This may be out there, but is the reason they object to the earth being a "globe" somehow related to the idea of globalism? I think most of the "proof" that the earth is flat consists of semantics and partial truths and limited first hand experience (personal experience). After all when you look around and travel any great distance by car - the earth looks and feels "flat". A friend taught 4th graders - and the kids had been so use to seeing the world laid out flat (maps, etc) that some of them did think the world was flat - that it looked like the maps on the class room wall. They also had trouble realizing that Canada was attached to America (or that Mexico was attached - even if they had come from Mexico or a South American Country) and that Alaska was an island like Hawaii - when they where learning the States and their Capitols - because of the worksheets AND the way weather maps are presented on TV and such. We talk about the earth as being round and countries being connected - but we often show/talk about the earth in a different way to illustrate different things about it - or to "put info in an easy to digest way". There's some weird truth to "seeing is believing". There are no globes in classrooms any more?
|
|
|
Post by minnesotapaintlady on Jun 8, 2023 14:17:39 GMT -5
I think most of the "proof" that the earth is flat consists of semantics and partial truths and limited first hand experience (personal experience). After all when you look around and travel any great distance by car - the earth looks and feels "flat". A friend taught 4th graders - and the kids had been so use to seeing the world laid out flat (maps, etc) that some of them did think the world was flat - that it looked like the maps on the class room wall. They also had trouble realizing that Canada was attached to America (or that Mexico was attached - even if they had come from Mexico or a South American Country) and that Alaska was an island like Hawaii - when they where learning the States and their Capitols - because of the worksheets AND the way weather maps are presented on TV and such. We talk about the earth as being round and countries being connected - but we often show/talk about the earth in a different way to illustrate different things about it - or to "put info in an easy to digest way". There's some weird truth to "seeing is believing". There are no globes in classrooms any more? According to Kandiss Taylor they're everywhere!
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,327
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 8, 2023 14:45:44 GMT -5
I think most of the "proof" that the earth is flat consists of semantics and partial truths and limited first hand experience (personal experience). After all when you look around and travel any great distance by car - the earth looks and feels "flat". A friend taught 4th graders - and the kids had been so use to seeing the world laid out flat (maps, etc) that some of them did think the world was flat - that it looked like the maps on the class room wall. They also had trouble realizing that Canada was attached to America (or that Mexico was attached - even if they had come from Mexico or a South American Country) and that Alaska was an island like Hawaii - when they where learning the States and their Capitols - because of the worksheets AND the way weather maps are presented on TV and such. We talk about the earth as being round and countries being connected - but we often show/talk about the earth in a different way to illustrate different things about it - or to "put info in an easy to digest way". There's some weird truth to "seeing is believing". There are no globes in classrooms any more? I haven't seen one personally in a while but that 4th graders thought the world was flat is shitty education. And I am also going to hazard a guess that not a lot of reading and learning go on in the house either because you're going to eventually stumble on literature somewhere that shows a dang globe. Abby is in 3rd grade and learned the Earth is freaking round a LONG time ago.
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,372
|
Post by Tiny on Jun 8, 2023 15:13:39 GMT -5
I think most of the "proof" that the earth is flat consists of semantics and partial truths and limited first hand experience (personal experience). After all when you look around and travel any great distance by car - the earth looks and feels "flat". A friend taught 4th graders - and the kids had been so use to seeing the world laid out flat (maps, etc) that some of them did think the world was flat - that it looked like the maps on the class room wall. They also had trouble realizing that Canada was attached to America (or that Mexico was attached - even if they had come from Mexico or a South American Country) and that Alaska was an island like Hawaii - when they where learning the States and their Capitols - because of the worksheets AND the way weather maps are presented on TV and such. We talk about the earth as being round and countries being connected - but we often show/talk about the earth in a different way to illustrate different things about it - or to "put info in an easy to digest way". There's some weird truth to "seeing is believing". There are no globes in classrooms any more? IDK. My Catholic grade school didn't have any that I remember.... this was in the late 60's early 70's. When I was a pre-tween, I found a globe in the basement (old house - dark, low ceiling, the place were stuff went to die - fun place to hang out on hot summer days). I remember messing with it and it came off it's stand and then it was a ball. I found it fascinating and fun! I would toss and catch it and where ever my index finger was pointing to that "was where I would travel to" and I would look to see how far away it was from where I lived (well the State I lived in) - and what was in the way to getting to the pointed to place. I would make up stories. I spent way too much time alone as a kid. I think there might have been a big fancy globe in a protected area in my HS library or maybe it was in the jr. College Library/Media center (or maybe at the Public library). I know I saw one somewhere -- I would want to spin it and see where my finger landed... but you couldn't touch it to go with a good childhood memory.
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,372
|
Post by Tiny on Jun 8, 2023 15:22:53 GMT -5
FWIW: there was the TV show: big blue marble I remember watching it as a kid. The google sez it was on TV from 1974–1983). I think there were other nature or travel tv shows that alluded to the Earth being round back then. It was a "duh" of course the earth is round kind of thing. You didn't need "proof" - everyone said it was so. Kind of like the Trinity and Jesus rising from the dead... everyone said it was so - so it was. Didn't matter if you thought it was hooey. I grew up Catholic surrounded by Catholics in a neighborhood of Catholics. There was ONE Catholic Hispanic family that moved into the neighborhood when I was in 7th grade and they were such a "oh my gosh!" someone who is different!! we only see different people on TV!! it was wild. Being Catholic - you just learn to accept that people think weird shit is "real". As I got older there was proof that the Earth was round (and that it went around the Sun) there never was any proof of the Trinity or Jesus coming back from the dead. (although I did discover that Jesus wasn't the only god who came back from the dead. Some gods did it routinely not just once. and there are some other 3 in 1 kind of gods - not just the Catholic one. The 3 Fates and the Morrighan and I can't remember if there's a Hindu 3 in 1 diety/demigod or if it's a Chinese one... ) no actual scientific method proof for any of them. I know - it's a matter of Faith.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jun 8, 2023 15:30:40 GMT -5
I remember globes in every classroom in elementary school.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,510
|
Post by billisonboard on Jun 8, 2023 16:26:23 GMT -5
I am currently in a 2rd/3th classroom looking at a globe.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,510
|
Post by billisonboard on Jun 8, 2023 16:35:52 GMT -5
Checked k/1, 4/5, 6/7/8. Globes in all. No flat maps in amy.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,231
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jun 8, 2023 16:41:05 GMT -5
globes are cool is the best answer to the idiot in the OP. that is why everyone has one.
globes are cool, and you aren't. that is the best answer for her.
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,372
|
Post by Tiny on Jun 8, 2023 17:12:13 GMT -5
Checked k/1, 4/5, 6/7/8. Globes in all. No flat maps in amy. In my grade school each room had a storage thing on the ceiling - you could pull down a screen for the projector OR a variety of other large panels with educational stuff on them (teaching aides) - I know there were maps. When you were done with the lesson what ever panel you pulled down would get rolled back up into the thing on the ceiling. It might have been 1950's technology. I have an old American flag with 48 stars on it.
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,191
|
Post by tallguy on Jun 8, 2023 18:20:25 GMT -5
I am currently in a 2rd/3th classroom looking at a globe. I am guessing you wrote 3rd/4th originally and then just changed the numbers, didn't ya?
|
|
teen persuasion
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:49 GMT -5
Posts: 4,055
|
Post by teen persuasion on Jun 8, 2023 21:07:06 GMT -5
There are no globes in classrooms any more? IDK. My Catholic grade school didn't have any that I remember.... this was in the late 60's early 70's. When I was a pre-tween, I found a globe in the basement (old house - dark, low ceiling, the place were stuff went to die - fun place to hang out on hot summer days). I remember messing with it and it came off it's stand and then it was a ball. I found it fascinating and fun! I would toss and catch it and where ever my index finger was pointing to that "was where I would travel to" and I would look to see how far away it was from where I lived (well the State I lived in) - and what was in the way to getting to the pointed to place. I would make up stories. I spent way too much time alone as a kid. I think there might have been a big fancy globe in a protected area in my HS library or maybe it was in the jr. College Library/Media center (or maybe at the Public library). I know I saw one somewhere -- I would want to spin it and see where my finger landed... but you couldn't touch it to go with a good childhood memory. We have a globe in my library, and everybody is encouraged to explore with it. It doesn't spin on an axis, it's a ball that sits in a base, and can be removed from the base to be repositioned. It's in the children's section.
|
|
|
Post by minnesotapaintlady on Jun 9, 2023 7:31:46 GMT -5
My son has a globe in his bedroom. It's pretty old...still has the USSR on it...but serves its purpose (to indoctrinate my kids )
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,604
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jun 9, 2023 10:38:09 GMT -5
From Neil deGrasse Tyson's Facebook page.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,604
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jun 9, 2023 10:39:06 GMT -5
And this one too.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,231
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jun 9, 2023 12:01:18 GMT -5
yeah. that is a pretty serious problem. flat Earther's should explain why it is night in Japan right now, at 10AM Pacific time. if the Earth were truly flat, there would be no time zones, and we would all experience day and night the same way.
|
|
|
Post by minnesotapaintlady on Jun 9, 2023 12:14:55 GMT -5
This is their explanation for sunrise and sunset. I'm feeling very unfulfilled.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,231
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jun 9, 2023 12:27:04 GMT -5
This is their explanation for sunrise and sunset. I'm feeling very unfulfilled. sure. that explains it from one fixed position. it does nothing to explain why everyone does not experience sunset the same way at the same time. this is like a blind man and the elephant. you experience things from your perspective, but you really have no perspective. so you don't actually see it.
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,372
|
Post by Tiny on Jun 9, 2023 12:35:03 GMT -5
I get the whole Spaghetti Monster and the Invisible Pink Unicorn as ways to highlight the fallacies and downright weird rationalizations that some of the religious use to "prove" their god exists.
Are the religious using the Flat Earth thing as a way to justify their holy texts? Or to get their followers to accept fallacies as truth? basically to encourage a way to reconcile reality with a holy text when reality contradicts the holy text?
I'm not sure if the Flat Earthers are actually saying the scientific method is wrong or if they are using the fallacies and weird rationalizations for their belief that the earth is flat as a way to justify, um, using God Spackle to reconcile their holy texts with reality. God Spackle is what is used by the religious to fill in the gaps or cracks or holes in their religious teachings - because since God doesn't make mistakes the flawed texts or beliefs MUST be made to work. It's not really the God of the Gaps... but rather something used to fill in the cracks between reality and what a holy text says.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jun 9, 2023 12:36:00 GMT -5
This is their explanation for sunrise and sunset. I'm feeling very unfulfilled. I was reading some of their forums. While they SOUND scientifically literate, they're not.
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,372
|
Post by Tiny on Jun 9, 2023 12:45:13 GMT -5
This is their explanation for sunrise and sunset. I'm feeling very unfulfilled. But why is it 3am in Sydney Australia? It was noon here EST when we were advised that their servers were down - why did we have to deal with the "after hours support people"?? why is it the middle of the night in Australia when those of us in the US are in the middle of our work day?? Are there really big mountains somewhere blocking the sun from Australia (so it's dark there? when it's mid day here??) as the sun passes over the Flat Earth??
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,231
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jun 9, 2023 13:04:04 GMT -5
This is their explanation for sunrise and sunset. I'm feeling very unfulfilled. But why is it 3am in Sydney Australia? It was noon here EST when we were advised that their servers were down - why did we have to deal with the "after hours support people"?? why is it the middle of the night in Australia when those of us in the US are in the middle of our work day?? Are there really big mountains somewhere blocking the sun from Australia (so it's dark there? when it's mid day here??) as the sun passes over the Flat Earth?? yeah! of course there are some big mountains! they are approximately 4000 miles high, and in nearly a perfect arc. ie, a circle.
|
|
teen persuasion
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:49 GMT -5
Posts: 4,055
|
Post by teen persuasion on Jun 9, 2023 14:29:32 GMT -5
This is their explanation for sunrise and sunset. I'm feeling very unfulfilled. Yeah, that didn't explain anything. But, oy, Celestial Spheres? Really? The stars are all just projected on a single sphere like a bowl above the *flat* earth? No depth? Something something about bending visual lines tricking our eyes at great distances...
|
|