Opti
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Post by Opti on May 3, 2023 7:06:53 GMT -5
Long article, so only snippets posted. I like what the author wrote. I got grief in my last job because many black people seem to believe white people cannot be poor. I guess some don't do math? And others wondering why I was in the position I was with my obvious intelligence. It has been my experience should I be allowed to get a low paying job with my obvious intelligence that most bosses will try to get rid of me or promote around me simply because of their biases. That I would be middle-aged, well-educated, well-spoken and struggling financially offends their sensibilities of how the world works. However, I've experienced first hand the number of people like myself forced out of jobs and then the struggle to be hired because of the persistent belief we must have done something wrong to deserve this. As if mergers, acquisitions, and businesses folding don't affect everyone who works there. As if magically in major downturns there are good paying jobs for everyone. www.msn.com/en-us/money/personalfinance/poor-people-are-not-stupid-i-grew-up-in-poverty-earned-14-an-hour-and-inherited-150-000-here-s-what-i-have-learned-from-my-windfall/ar-AA1aEllM?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=fb48ab06ed524484a857bae60eaa4f98&ei=19However, I’d also like to address some of the comments that were less encouraging. Several people insisted that my letter was obviously fake because of how well I wrote, and that someone with my education level could not possibly be in the financial situation I’m in. I was less hurt by this attitude as I was utterly astounded by it. That people genuinely believe the educated cannot struggle financially just floored me.
‘There are more ‘poor’ Americans than there are ‘rich’ Americans, and we are not stupid or lazy. We’re trying to make it work.’
Poor people are not stupid. We’re not illiterate country bumpkins struggling to figure out how to work a computer. We’re the nurse that lives down the street with two roommates to be able to afford rent. We’re the teachers still living with their parents because they can’t find enough roommates to qualify for an apartment. We’re the cops working at Home Depot on the side trying to save up for a baby. We’re the lawyers doing Uber just to afford student-loan payments.
There is a financial crisis in this country. I believe it comes from unchecked capitalism. When corporations are allowed to buy up single-dwelling homes and drastically raise rents, and banks/lending institutions are allowed to prey on people with obscenely high interest rates, you foster an environment of exploitation. Our society allows for the targeting of young people before they even graduate high school. Credit-card companies and college-loan institutions begin preying on people as soon as they hit 18.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 3, 2023 7:35:55 GMT -5
I would like to challenge your first statement. Having biases regarding folks in different socio-economic statuses just exists. It does not rely on skin color, math abilities, or anything else. This was a lesson I learned in my early 30s. That children taught me. I can still remember the kids' first name. When I shared with her that we had a kiddo sleeping in our living room, just like her family and the other low income families I worked with...I could literally watch the cogs move in her brain as she sat and really thought about that. And I was like, huh. I guess we are all biased. I would also like to challenge that lawyers are poor. By what metric? The federal poverty limit for a one person household is 14K in terms of income. I really cannot believe that lawyers make 14K a year. I would be interested to see that data point. Even lawyers hired by the state to represent folks that can't afford a lawyer make 50-60K. that's not poverty level wages.
I would also like to challenge that people also simply just have no agency in their lives. That they are puppets of society, big corporations, the big machine, whatever. Do you know that my alma mater now has programs for lawyers to go part time for the first couple years of law school so they can work and go to school? It's a newer program. My alma mater isn't some obscure tiny school. It's actually ranked in the top 50 law schools. So, it shouldn't take a lot of effort to find that information. Do you know that teachers in my district make 45K a year? Yes, you have to share an apartment (horrors). Two teachers in a relationship that have 5-7 years of teaching experience can gross over 100K a year. And, again, in my district, teachers just had to start paying for health insurance within the last 5 years. Before then, they paid nothing for health insurance coverage and like 1% towards their full pension.
And. no one "makes" teachers go to the dream school to get 100K in debt. That is a choice.
My oldest girl wants to be a teacher. For the past 2-3 years, we've been telling her her 529 money has to last for undergrad and grad school. She needs to choose wisely. Yes. I know she has privilege for having money for school. She also has that privilege because I asked for that instead of toys for traditional gift giving events. I knew toys would not serve my kids like an education would.
I'm actually convinced if well off people actually lowered themselves to roll their hands up, and go into depressed neighborhoods, and work along side others that are having a rough time, there would be some pretty significant attitude change. Instead, we decide we don't want to get caught up in that. We like our NIBMY. We like our safety. We like to judge. We like to feel superior. And, we like to take no individual responsibility to do better. It's just so much easier to point fingers at everything that we perceive controls us.
Life's always been shitty. For most people. In different ways,yes. My grandparents didn't have great lives. It was different than my parents really having quite a shitty life. Which is different than the way my life has been shitty. And, no doubt. my kids will have a shitty life, too.
That's life. You do your best under what ever circumstances you are dealt and you hope you've made things in your neck of the woods better before you leave.
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susana1954
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Post by susana1954 on May 3, 2023 7:47:43 GMT -5
Some of this must be relative as well as regional because around here, neither teachers or nurses are "poor." Those are two of the examples in the bottom snippets. Teachers here start at $40,000. While that still may mean you need a roommate, etc., that is not poverty.
Opti, you have a tendency to generalize about other races. You really shouldn't. You have no idea what "many" black people believe; at best, you know what "some" believe, and I am not sure about even that. What does race have to do with your argument, anyway? Recast it as many poor people believe that college-educated people cannot be poor, and you have a real discussion starter. We have been sold the idea that college is the ticket to wealth, and it isn't.
The argument loses me, though, when the writer starts railing against capitalism, etc. I don't think government as Big Brother, Supreme Protector of All, is the answer.
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scgal
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Post by scgal on May 3, 2023 8:35:46 GMT -5
I was thinking about this for the past few days. Although we are not struggling I work with many that are and we were in our younger years.
Some may say i'm judgemental but my opinions are only from what I see on the surface. First off bad shit does happen. Bad health, job loss, personal family issues. Then most other reasons can be changed or avoided. People may be educated and poor thru bad situations but staying there can be their fault also thru poor Poor education that includes an education in a non desirable field that doesn't pay well, staying in a hcol area and not willing to relocate, living beyond ones means. Not having a budget. The list can go on and on.
The I can't or better yet I don't want to will keep a person down more than societal influence.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on May 3, 2023 9:20:56 GMT -5
From personal experience, I can tell you people aren't always poor by choice, or due to bad decisions. I used to participate in a group of moms who all had kids with special needs. The system will suck you dry financially. Heaven help you if your child needs a wheelchair, therapy, or prescription medications, because the prices are much higher than they need to be. I'm in a "good" state for getting some help, but you still live on the edge because you really don't get compensated for everything your child needs. For example, when DS was little, some of the therapy he needed required 2 copays a day. My part-time job literally only paid for his therapy copays. I've met parents whose child battled, for example, cancer. You can't plan for stuff like this, and you have to dig deep to even keep what you have. The truth is, we're blessed with what we have, and while we have more than some, we still have less than if we hadn't had to pay for so much extra stuff that parents of normal kids don't have to deal with. People who don't have special needs kids truly don't know how lucky they are.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2023 9:32:40 GMT -5
Just a couple of thoughts. First, unless we are measuring against a finite number such as the Fed poverty index, the perception of poverty or wealthy is relative. There will always be someone with more or less than you have. What is "stupid"? To me, stupid indicates a lack of intelligence, an inherent inability to acquire and use knowledge. Then there is "ignorance", which I consider to be a lack of knowledge on a topic which can be addressed by learning in some way. The author of the article learned about financial management and had a positive outcome. Life has never been and will never be a level playing field for all. Shit does indeed happen with drastic disregard for your intelligence or education. Industries collapse, disease strikes, spouses leave. Some are fortunate to receive a windfall such as the author did, others don't inherit. I know several lawyers who choose to practice in relatively low-income levels of the profession, accepting indigent clients and doing a lot of pro-bono work. That fits with their personal ethic. I know one amazing teacher who chooses to work in extremely low-income areas of extremely low-income states because she believes that education is the only way to break the cycle of poverty in areas where child marriage is legal, high school completion is uncommon, and childbirth at 14 is very common. Again, this fits her personal ethic. I also know a highly-educated (Ph.D) retired teacher who considers herself abjectly poor. She owns her house outright, has a pension albeit small, collects SS, and has insurance coverage. She told me she chose not to save a dime during her work life, instead enjoying many wonderful vacations. Now, in her mid-80's, she is legally blind with other health challenges. Maybe the vacations weren't a bad choice
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on May 3, 2023 10:41:47 GMT -5
We live in a competitive society, kind of the whole foundation of Capitalism. In a competition some win and some lose. Everyone needs to come up with a reason people lose so they can comfort themselves that they can be sure it doesn't happen to them or they can work their way out of it. Some reason other than somebody has to lose in a competition. I don't believe intelligence is the deciding factor, I know too many stupid rich people.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 6, 2023 10:18:16 GMT -5
I don’t understand “I got grief in my last job…” about poverty and race.
That is not a conversation to have with coworkers! Especially not trying to convince someone to the point of getting grief. Work is a place to be neutral and professional, not discuss your philosophy on society, particularly with political or racial overtones.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 6, 2023 11:55:50 GMT -5
This what the author meant.
Dear Moneyist,
There are a lot more Americans making less than $50,000 a year than there are those who make more. I feel like we aren’t really represented in the financial-advice world.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on May 6, 2023 12:33:14 GMT -5
This what the author meant. Dear Moneyist, There are a lot more Americans making less than $50,000 a year than there are those who make more. I feel like we aren’t really represented in the financial-advice world.Well that's definitely true. I'm not sure that's what the letter-writer wrote but that's definitely true. It's kinda a financial-advice desert out there if you're making a modest living or struggling.
Only part of the problem is that different parts of the country have wildly different costs of living which mean that making $50K means wildly different things depending on where you live. I'm often tempted to believe that disinterest and contempt and lack of knowledge regarding the financial lives of the bottom half of earners are the more important reasons for the void.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on May 6, 2023 13:51:42 GMT -5
This what the author meant. Dear Moneyist, There are a lot more Americans making less than $50,000 a year than there are those who make more. I feel like we aren’t really represented in the financial-advice world.Well that's definitely true. I'm not sure that's what the letter-writer wrote but that's definitely true. It's kinda a financial-advice desert out there if you're making a modest living or struggling.
Only part of the problem is that different parts of the country have wildly different costs of living which mean that making $50K means wildly different things depending on where you live. I'm often tempted to believe that disinterest and contempt and lack of knowledge regarding the financial lives of the bottom half of earners are the more important reasons for the void.
Unless you know where to look on reddit.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 6, 2023 14:29:57 GMT -5
This what the author meant. Dear Moneyist, There are a lot more Americans making less than $50,000 a year than there are those who make more. I feel like we aren’t really represented in the financial-advice world.Well that's definitely true. I'm not sure that's what the letter-writer wrote but that's definitely true. It's kinda a financial-advice desert out there if you're making a modest living or struggling.
Only part of the problem is that different parts of the country have wildly different costs of living which mean that making $50K means wildly different things depending on where you live. I'm often tempted to believe that disinterest and contempt and lack of knowledge regarding the financial lives of the bottom half of earners are the more important reasons for the void.
True, yet federally the poverty level is the same for everywhere except for I think Hawaii and perhaps Alaska which is exceedingly unfair.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 7, 2023 12:17:30 GMT -5
Well that's definitely true. I'm not sure that's what the letter-writer wrote but that's definitely true. It's kinda a financial-advice desert out there if you're making a modest living or struggling.
Only part of the problem is that different parts of the country have wildly different costs of living which mean that making $50K means wildly different things depending on where you live. I'm often tempted to believe that disinterest and contempt and lack of knowledge regarding the financial lives of the bottom half of earners are the more important reasons for the void.
Unless you know where to look on reddit. Or Suzy orman, dave ramsey, et al. Seems a gazillion books as well. Google will give a gazillion blogs as well, of various quality for sure.....and the books and internet could be accessed maybe via the library so cost free. Going back to when I was making about 10-15k on my own with 2 kids.....there really isn't a lot you can do if you don't have enough to pay basic bills. That is what "struggling" is. There is no amount of financial "advice" that is going to make this situation rosy. But the basic message of live below your means is step one. If you are not there there and have no extras to cut, there is nothing you can do but try to maximize income and be as frugal as possible. Once you get to a place where you have some money there is no end of information on buidling an EF, then investing in 401k, roth, etc. So cut costs as much as you can, build an EF, then use 401k if you have one or do an IRA if you don't - roth or reg depends on person. Maybe ibonds for the EF is a more "advanced" topic? But just having the EF in the first place is the important thing. Overall, the basics are out there, and if you have a modest to struggling budget, the basics is all you can do. Within the basics, there are certainly ways to maximize things, and one could argue that those in this category need to mazimize as much as possible. But the thing to do is just get er done. Like the EF. Then you can get fancy within that as you learn more. And if someone doesn't have access to the internet and won't/can't go to the library for it, then I don't know what to say! But live below your means has been sage advise since....benjamin franklin?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 7, 2023 12:32:10 GMT -5
Rukh O'Rorke posted: But live below your means has been sage advise since....benjamin franklin? I am thinking since the first human being suggested drying some meat when it was plentiful.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on May 8, 2023 16:49:13 GMT -5
There are a lot of lines of work, where the salary doesn’t justify the cost of the education. And some of these are pretty damn important, like teachers and social workers.
There are also certain parts of the country, where it’s just very difficult to make a go of it. I have a cousin who graduated on time and debt-free, with a degree in accounting, and worked steadily and hard, her whole life. By the time she was 50, all she had to show for it was a 300 square-foot condo, because she chose to live in a very expensive city. It isn’t how much you make that matters as much as how much you make in relation to housing and taxes. The first thing I would tell someone who works in ordinary job in the expensive city is to look around. There are plenty of small cities in the middle of the country that have a decent job market and a more reasonable cost of living.
And I can tell you from experience that having a special-needs kid makes it more difficult to get ahead. It isn’t just the medical bills that get you,. It’s having the second income and going back to school delayed or outright prevented. You just don’t have the energy.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on May 8, 2023 19:08:41 GMT -5
Poor people definitely aren't stupid but they are faced with some decisions where their choice might seem stupid to those who come from a place of financial privilege.
Like, I have a friend who already has two checking accounts and when I suggested she transfer her rent from her primary to her secondary so that she can pay via routing and account number from the second vs paying $10 to use her debit card from the first, she said it was easier for her to just pay using the latter method, never mind that she doesn't really make enough to be able to afford the $10 fee.
She also has an ADHD brain and I do not which also leads to some head-scratching when she explains why she does some of the things she does.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on May 8, 2023 19:41:14 GMT -5
Some people are also just terrible with money/get stressed out or overwhelmed.
I wouldn't classify my mother as stupid, but I can't talk money with her. She just shuts down/doesn't get it. She recently went to the bank for something mortgage related, and the person was trying to explain a rewards credit card to her. Pretty standard stuff, but she was asking me about it like it was some deep mystery.
She is NOT good with credit. Never has been. So while in theory, paying cash throughout the month, and putting stuff on a card, and paying the balance at the end, should be the same, I know for a fact she would get herself into troubles if she took it out. So whatever "rewards" she would earn would be wiped out by the interest I know she would end up paying when she financed something.
She used to carry a balance on her Kohl's card (shudder). Why, I don't know as she had the cash to pay it off. I was like..please do not do this, for the love of god you are paying obscene interest. I think she was trying to "build her credit" but that ship has well and truly sailed.
I don't dig too deeply into her finances as I know it would just stress me out. She is currently trying to navigate her retirement/SS and I am in constant dread that she doesn't fully understand her benefit/budget.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 9, 2023 3:02:45 GMT -5
Poor people definitely aren't stupid but they are faced with some decisions where their choice might seem stupid to those who come from a place of financial privilege.Like, I have a friend who already has two checking accounts and when I suggested she transfer her rent from her primary to her secondary so that she can pay via routing and account number from the second vs paying $10 to use her debit card from the first, she said it was easier for her to just pay using the latter method, never mind that she doesn't really make enough to be able to afford the $10 fee. She also has an ADHD brain and I do not which also leads to some head-scratching when she explains why she does some of the things she does. Don’t necessarily agree with this. My brother is a prime example. We were raised alike, but he was never able to think of the big picture. An example of this is my brother. He’s educated, but he CHOSE not to pay his dues. He was a manager of a Pizza Hut, who also waited tables. Corporate tapped him to become salaried, with benefits. He turned it down because he made more waiting tables, for no benefits. Fast forward 10 years, he’s bartending for the Cheesecake Factory and making waaay more than I was (that is, unless you count benefits). He got tapped to move to another location, and go corporate. Again, he turned it down to remain a bartender. More money, no benefits. Fast forward another 15 years, and like all of us, he’s starting to break down. His body isn’t handling bartending as well as it did 15 years ago. Now he is 58, and those chances are not going to happen anymore. Despite him having an income pushing 6 figures bartending, the vast majority of this income was tip income. He has no retirement, but does have a paid off townhouse. I took the $$ that I received from dad’s house and put it in dividend producing income. It’s rolling off about $6k/year. This is going to be used as a slush fund to supplement him……but he doesn’t know it, and won’t.
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minnesotapaintlady
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on May 9, 2023 7:49:44 GMT -5
Poor people definitely aren't stupid but they are faced with some decisions where their choice might seem stupid to those who come from a place of financial privilege.Like, I have a friend who already has two checking accounts and when I suggested she transfer her rent from her primary to her secondary so that she can pay via routing and account number from the second vs paying $10 to use her debit card from the first, she said it was easier for her to just pay using the latter method, never mind that she doesn't really make enough to be able to afford the $10 fee. She also has an ADHD brain and I do not which also leads to some head-scratching when she explains why she does some of the things she does. Don’t necessarily agree with this. My brother is a prime example. We were raised alike, but he was never able to think of the big picture. An example of this is my brother. He’s educated, but he CHOSE not to pay his dues. He was a manager of a Pizza Hut, who also waited tables. Corporate tapped him to become salaried, with benefits. He turned it down because he made more waiting tables, for no benefits. Fast forward 10 years, he’s bartending for the Cheesecake Factory and making waaay more than I was (that is, unless you count benefits). He got tapped to move to another location, and go corporate. Again, he turned it down to remain a bartender. More money, no benefits. Fast forward another 15 years, and like all of us, he’s starting to break down. His body isn’t handling bartending as well as it did 15 years ago. Now he is 58, and those chances are not going to happen anymore. Despite him having an income pushing 6 figures bartending, the vast majority of this income was tip income. He has no retirement, but does have a paid off townhouse. I took the $$ that I received from dad’s house and put it in dividend producing income. It’s rolling off about $6k/year. This is going to be used as a slush fund to supplement him……but he doesn’t know it, and won’t. I see this all the time where siblings are complete opposites in the ability to handle finances. No rhyme or reason to it besides different ways of thinking and different choices along the way. Definitely not one being raised with privilege and the other not. My 48 year old cousin is going to be poor and a renter until her parents die and she gets an inheritance. Her brother is doing quite well for himself even though he started his family young and didn't have any education beyond the National Guard.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on May 9, 2023 8:03:29 GMT -5
Poor people definitely aren't stupid but they are faced with some decisions where their choice might seem stupid to those who come from a place of financial privilege.Like, I have a friend who already has two checking accounts and when I suggested she transfer her rent from her primary to her secondary so that she can pay via routing and account number from the second vs paying $10 to use her debit card from the first, she said it was easier for her to just pay using the latter method, never mind that she doesn't really make enough to be able to afford the $10 fee. She also has an ADHD brain and I do not which also leads to some head-scratching when she explains why she does some of the things she does. Don’t necessarily agree with this. My brother is a prime example. We were raised alike, but he was never able to think of the big picture. An example of this is my brother. He’s educated, but he CHOSE not to pay his dues. He was a manager of a Pizza Hut, who also waited tables. Corporate tapped him to become salaried, with benefits. He turned it down because he made more waiting tables, for no benefits. Fast forward 10 years, he’s bartending for the Cheesecake Factory and making waaay more than I was (that is, unless you count benefits). He got tapped to move to another location, and go corporate. Again, he turned it down to remain a bartender. More money, no benefits. Fast forward another 15 years, and like all of us, he’s starting to break down. His body isn’t handling bartending as well as it did 15 years ago. Now he is 58, and those chances are not going to happen anymore. Despite him having an income pushing 6 figures bartending, the vast majority of this income was tip income. He has no retirement, but does have a paid off townhouse. I took the $$ that I received from dad’s house and put it in dividend producing income. It’s rolling off about $6k/year. This is going to be used as a slush fund to supplement him……but he doesn’t know it, and won’t. I feel like that's a different issue. People make bad/dumb choices, and the decision not to get insurance may result in your brother being "poor". Decisions he makes now could compound that bad choice and at that point he could be at the point where being poor only leaves him with not good options.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on May 9, 2023 9:28:14 GMT -5
DD used to be an ER nurse at an inner city hospital. A nice grocery store opened across the street from the hospital, the only grocery store in the city.
Well if someone calls emergency for an ambulance they are obligated to bring the person to the hospital. People who were brought to the ER by ambulance started to disappear. They discovered these ‘poor people’ were using the ambulance to get to ER then walking over to grocery shop. Then they only needed to pay for a taxi going home. Not stupid but worried only about themselves not all the time money and resources wasted by doing this. I forgot how the hospital stopped this
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 9, 2023 9:33:25 GMT -5
Don’t necessarily agree with this. My brother is a prime example. We were raised alike, but he was never able to think of the big picture. An example of this is my brother. He’s educated, but he CHOSE not to pay his dues. He was a manager of a Pizza Hut, who also waited tables. Corporate tapped him to become salaried, with benefits. He turned it down because he made more waiting tables, for no benefits. Fast forward 10 years, he’s bartending for the Cheesecake Factory and making waaay more than I was (that is, unless you count benefits). He got tapped to move to another location, and go corporate. Again, he turned it down to remain a bartender. More money, no benefits. Fast forward another 15 years, and like all of us, he’s starting to break down. His body isn’t handling bartending as well as it did 15 years ago. Now he is 58, and those chances are not going to happen anymore. Despite him having an income pushing 6 figures bartending, the vast majority of this income was tip income. He has no retirement, but does have a paid off townhouse. I took the $$ that I received from dad’s house and put it in dividend producing income. It’s rolling off about $6k/year. This is going to be used as a slush fund to supplement him……but he doesn’t know it, and won’t. I see this all the time where siblings are complete opposites in the ability to handle finances. No rhyme or reason to it besides different ways of thinking and different choices along the way. Definitely not one being raised with privilege and the other not. My 48 year old cousin is going to be poor and a renter until her parents die and she gets an inheritance. Her brother is doing quite well for himself even though he started his family young and didn't have any education beyond the National Guard. What's wrong with being a renter? Does everyone have to own their own home? I did own a home, and the property taxes, roof repairs, hot water heater crapping out, well/septic tank needing to be relocated, etc, cost me way more than renting. Quebec has always been a renters’ province, Statistics Canada observed in a September 2022 study on the housing market. More than half of residential construction built in Montreal between 2016 and 2021 was rental, the highest share among Canada’s three largest cities financialpost.com/real-estate/montreal-rent-cheaper-than-toronto#:~:text=Quebec%20has%20always%20been%20a,among%20Canada's%20three%20largest%20cities.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on May 9, 2023 9:42:16 GMT -5
By financial privilege, I'm meaning not in poverty or even close to it. My friend makes about half of what I do and I make ~$40,000/yr. I'm not meaning a silver spoon level of income. I also have very good credit and don't have generational poverty or poorness in my history, unless you count my grandparents during the depression but we're 80 years removed from that. I've also had the benefit of a steady income since I was 20 years old with any part-time job being supplemental income and not primary source. THAT is what I mean by financial privilege.
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minnesotapaintlady
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on May 9, 2023 9:56:08 GMT -5
I see this all the time where siblings are complete opposites in the ability to handle finances. No rhyme or reason to it besides different ways of thinking and different choices along the way. Definitely not one being raised with privilege and the other not. My 48 year old cousin is going to be poor and a renter until her parents die and she gets an inheritance. Her brother is doing quite well for himself even though he started his family young and didn't have any education beyond the National Guard. What's wrong with being a renter? Does everyone have to own their own home? I did own a home, and the property taxes, roof repairs, hot water heater crapping out, well/septic tank needing to be relocated, etc, cost me way more than renting. Quebec has always been a renters’ province, Statistics Canada observed in a September 2022 study on the housing market. More than half of residential construction built in Montreal between 2016 and 2021 was rental, the highest share among Canada’s three largest cities financialpost.com/real-estate/montreal-rent-cheaper-than-toronto#:~:text=Quebec%20has%20always%20been%20a,among%20Canada's%20three%20largest%20cities. Nope. But, if renting is so much cheaper she should be rolling in it by now no? Instead she's always broke and has nothing of any value to show for it and nothing in retirement accounts. Plus, she's paying twice as much for rent as I pay for a house payment for a tiny crap house and that rent will only go up as the years go by. I guarantee her landlord is making money hand over fist on that rental. My cousin has been there for 14 or 15 years now so probably paid over 150K in rent on what was probably a 50K house when the landlord bought it. If her parents wouldn't be leaving her a house she'd be paying rent all through retirement instead of having a paid off house to live in.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 9, 2023 10:07:04 GMT -5
Don’t necessarily agree with this. My brother is a prime example. We were raised alike, but he was never able to think of the big picture. An example of this is my brother. He’s educated, but he CHOSE not to pay his dues. He was a manager of a Pizza Hut, who also waited tables. Corporate tapped him to become salaried, with benefits. He turned it down because he made more waiting tables, for no benefits. Fast forward 10 years, he’s bartending for the Cheesecake Factory and making waaay more than I was (that is, unless you count benefits). He got tapped to move to another location, and go corporate. Again, he turned it down to remain a bartender. More money, no benefits. Fast forward another 15 years, and like all of us, he’s starting to break down. His body isn’t handling bartending as well as it did 15 years ago. Now he is 58, and those chances are not going to happen anymore. Despite him having an income pushing 6 figures bartending, the vast majority of this income was tip income. He has no retirement, but does have a paid off townhouse. I took the $$ that I received from dad’s house and put it in dividend producing income. It’s rolling off about $6k/year. This is going to be used as a slush fund to supplement him……but he doesn’t know it, and won’t. I feel like that's a different issue. People make bad/dumb choices, and the decision not to get insurance may result in your brother being "poor". Decisions he makes now could compound that bad choice and at that point he could be at the point where being poor only leaves him with not good options. This isn’t exactly what I’m talking about. Insurance is important, but my brother chose the paths he took looking at only the immediate period now, and not what it could bring him in the future, not quite understanding that being a waiter and bartender were jobs hard on the body. He wasn’t looking at the fact that the corporate jobs not only included insurance, they included sick and vacation time, a retirement plan and possibly stock options. He had the degree.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 9, 2023 15:29:58 GMT -5
A lot of people can't see the big picture. They are only concerned with the here and now.
I'm shocked at how many people don't understand, or are even familiar with, a 401K or an IRA.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 9, 2023 15:53:40 GMT -5
What's wrong with being a renter? Does everyone have to own their own home? I did own a home, and the property taxes, roof repairs, hot water heater crapping out, well/septic tank needing to be relocated, etc, cost me way more than renting. Quebec has always been a renters’ province, Statistics Canada observed in a September 2022 study on the housing market. More than half of residential construction built in Montreal between 2016 and 2021 was rental, the highest share among Canada’s three largest cities financialpost.com/real-estate/montreal-rent-cheaper-than-toronto#:~:text=Quebec%20has%20always%20been%20a,among%20Canada's%20three%20largest%20cities. Nope. But, if renting is so much cheaper she should be rolling in it by now no? Instead she's always broke and has nothing of any value to show for it and nothing in retirement accounts. Plus, she's paying twice as much for rent as I pay for a house payment for a tiny crap house and that rent will only go up as the years go by. I guarantee her landlord is making money hand over fist on that rental. My cousin has been there for 14 or 15 years now so probably paid over 150K in rent on what was probably a 50K house when the landlord bought it. If her parents wouldn't be leaving her a house she'd be paying rent all through retirement instead of having a paid off house to live in. I think every area and region are different. Welts and I living in expensive areas have a very different experience than those of you living in cheaper areas especially if you have stable jobs. I did own a home with my XH, however at the time of the divorce the real estate market was in a downturn. Did not make money on it nor did I get back some of what I sunk into the purchase. Even though he was a couple years older than me, I sunk more money into our home because he was finishing up his PhD while I was working a year or so after I completed my Master's. And my second home bought by myself did not go the way I hoped. Bought just before the US wide downturn in home prices because of the credit crisis. Lost 10's of thousands on that. Buying a home does not guarantee a good return. Not all of us are in or stay in the position to do buy and hold.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 9, 2023 15:58:35 GMT -5
DD used to be an ER nurse at an inner city hospital. A nice grocery store opened across the street from the hospital, the only grocery store in the city. Well if someone calls emergency for an ambulance they are obligated to bring the person to the hospital. People who were brought to the ER by ambulance started to disappear. They discovered these ‘poor people’ were using the ambulance to get to ER then walking over to grocery shop. Then they only needed to pay for a taxi going home. Not stupid but worried only about themselves not all the time money and resources wasted by doing this. I forgot how the hospital stopped this Some people of any income level will take advantage though. There was a patient once that was notorious for not liking any rehab he was put into. His solution was to manufacture a crisis and be taken by Ambo to the hospital or elsewhere. Guaranteed he was going elsewhere. Was a heck of liar as well as you might expect. Pretended to be in distress somewhere but would not give a location. The entire building had to be searched. I saw games being played at all income levels. I think its more the person than their current finances.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 9, 2023 16:21:39 GMT -5
Nope. But, if renting is so much cheaper she should be rolling in it by now no? Instead she's always broke and has nothing of any value to show for it and nothing in retirement accounts. Plus, she's paying twice as much for rent as I pay for a house payment for a tiny crap house and that rent will only go up as the years go by. I guarantee her landlord is making money hand over fist on that rental. My cousin has been there for 14 or 15 years now so probably paid over 150K in rent on what was probably a 50K house when the landlord bought it. If her parents wouldn't be leaving her a house she'd be paying rent all through retirement instead of having a paid off house to live in. I think every area and region are different. Welts and I living in expensive areas have a very different experience than those of you living in cheaper areas especially if you have stable jobs. I did own a home with my XH, however at the time of the divorce the real estate market was in a downturn. Did not make money on it nor did I get back some of what I sunk into the purchase. Even though he was a couple years older than me, I sunk more money into our home because he was finishing up his PhD while I was working a year or so after I completed my Master's. And my second home bought by myself did not go the way I hoped. Bought just before the US wide downturn in home prices because of the credit crisis. Lost 10's of thousands on that. Buying a home does not guarantee a good return. Not all of us are in or stay in the position to do buy and hold. I've been avoiding you in a few places since you went off the rails the other day. and I realize that's not the best way to start a post, b/c you're going to going to get defensive and tune me out on what I'm about to say and tell me all about how I don't understand what you're dealing with rn. but, I'll bite on this one. I'm okay with not responding again if you go that route. just don't come at me or PM me for it, b/c I'm not here for that, and I won't answer it. I live in a VHCOLA as well. and I made a lot of stupid life choices that put me in a spot where people on this board (MPL was one) were aghast that I didn't just file for bankruptcy and start fresh. MY reality is that I *do* pull in a sizable income for my job, and I just needed to pull my head out of my ass about it. the housing market was favorable so I knew that I'd be able to reset my shit once I sold and was able to use those proceeds to make a sizable dent in the debt so that my payments were paying down more than just the interest. I did so, and I'm close to winning my WIRR race now. I've looked at moving elsewhere a few times in my adult life, by my own choice, and I decided to stay here for a number of reasons. but, I've looked into it enough to understand COL around the country, and if I was as strapped as you are, I'd consider hunkering down and finding a job suited to my skills somewhere way lower on the COL scale than NJ. what I'm about to say, this is where I expect defensiveness. but I'm gonna say it anyway. you've posted about how you have no support system in NJ, and you're "underfunded*" in the jobs you've held. WHY are you still bent on living in NJ? you haven't had anything positive to say about NJ in awhile, although I'll admit I scroll past most of your posts these days. I won't ask what is keeping you in NJ, b/c your exchange with Ava in another thread is what set me off the other day. *I hate this NON-word. if you don't have enough income to fund your life, you can't afford where you live. /stepsoffsoapbox
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on May 9, 2023 16:53:32 GMT -5
I have known some very intelligent people who have developed an attitude about people that they don't perceive as being as smart as they are for whatever reason. These leads to them dismissing co-workers, supervisors, etc because they are so sure they know better then this other person on what needs to be done, or don't consider them to be worthy of their time. In the end it usually costs these people their jobs and after a while word gets around, or it shows on their resume and they aren't able to pull in those high paying jobs anymore.
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