scgal
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Post by scgal on Jun 23, 2023 14:00:55 GMT -5
1. you would be suprised how accepted it is (kinda makes you scared) 2. Exactly 3. No its not you are. At least my opinion saves babies 60% of people think abortion should be legal in some fashion. That appears to be a majority. Getting close that is only a 20% spread with only 11% to tip the scale. Another decade or so we may get this done yet |
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 23, 2023 14:04:35 GMT -5
That is your opinion. It is not universally accepted. You just refuse to accept that It is interesting that the above ends with no punctuation. I could finish it in a few ways: 1) ... it is not universally accepted, 2) ... public policy should allow for individuals to act on their own opinion, 3) ... your opinion is wrong. 1. you would be suprised how accepted it is (kinda makes you scared) 2. Exactly 3. No its not you are. At least my opinion saves babiesMY opinion is that there should be much stricter gun control in the US. MY opinion would save school chidren. What's that? Only YOUR opinion mtters? |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 23, 2023 14:06:58 GMT -5
In your opinion. The definition of life is not provable, no matter what you wish to be the case. That is what you either are unable or unwilling to understand. A 12 week fetus is not viable. It is at the edge of viability in another 12 weeks, but only with incredibly aggressive intervention and with an uncertain outcome. Much can happen between week 12 and 24 that could affect its potential survival, and many pregnancies do not make it.
Nothing to say about forced organ donation? You sure have a lot t say about forcing a uterus to be used regardless of whether a women wants to or not. Exactly that is why it should be left alone if the mothers health is not in danger Again in your opinion. Why does that trump my opinion? Just reiterating that a fetus is a live human isn't a valid point, since that point is up for debate. Why does your opinion matter more? |
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Jun 23, 2023 14:07:33 GMT -5
That there is what you're truly scared of. I'm not alone in my thinking there are alot of people who think the same way about abortion. You make your argument and I make mine this is not personal to me although I'm sure some on here actually hate me just because of my position on a few hot topics. No, and please don't think that. Any liberal worthy of the name defends your right to think whatever you want, whether it is guns, abortion, or whatever. The reason you are not respected is because you want to act on that. Because you think your opinion should outweigh other people's reality. You think your opinion outweighs other people's rights. You do not have that right. You will never have that right in a free society. Ergo, the only conclusion is that you, like most typical social conservatives, do not believe in a free society and do not even grant much less respect the rights of anyone who believes different from you. Why should that be respected? So you think. One can believe what they want just don't act upon it becasue it goes against what you believe and of course a liberal opinion matters more. Sanctimonious bullshit |
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 23, 2023 14:07:47 GMT -5
In your opinion. The definition of life is not provable, no matter what you wish to be the case. That is what you either are unable or unwilling to understand. A 12 week fetus is not viable. It is at the edge of viability in another 12 weeks, but only with incredibly aggressive intervention and with an uncertain outcome. Much can happen between week 12 and 24 that could affect its potential survival, and many pregnancies do not make it.
Nothing to say about forced organ donation? You sure have a lot t say about forcing a uterus to be used regardless of whether a women wants to or not. Exactly that is why it should be left alone if the mothers health is not in danger Does mother's health - also include their mental health? I read about a woman who had twins and a very difficult pregnancy and birth and who was struggling with postpartum depression. She found herself pregnant 9 months after the birth of her twins. She didn't think her mental health OR her marriage would survive having 3 kids under the age of two. She was terrified to face another possible difficult pregnancy while caring for 2 infants - not to mention the terror of a difficult labor/birth (what if she died during childbirth??) . What would this do to her marriage? She had to travel to another state to have an abortion. Should this woman be forced to carry this clearly unwanted child to term? And then what - give it up for adoption? What does that do to her and husband and her two children? What's the best solution for this FAMILY?? |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 23, 2023 14:07:59 GMT -5
60% of people think abortion should be legal in some fashion. That appears to be a majority. Getting close that is only a 20% spread with only 11% to tip the scale. Another decade or so we may get this done yet The spread is going in the wrong direction for you. Maybe you would be surprised by how many people feel that way. |
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Jun 23, 2023 14:09:10 GMT -5
1. you would be suprised how accepted it is (kinda makes you scared) 2. Exactly 3. No its not you are. At least my opinion saves babiesMY opinion is that there should be much stricter gun control in the US. MY opinion would save school chidren. What's that? Only YOUR opinion mtters? You have every right to your opinion I just differ. If you lived in the US you can even lobby for it, and I will lobby against you. |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 23, 2023 14:09:34 GMT -5
No, and please don't think that. Any liberal worthy of the name defends your right to think whatever you want, whether it is guns, abortion, or whatever. The reason you are not respected is because you want to act on that. Because you think your opinion should outweigh other people's reality. You think your opinion outweighs other people's rights. You do not have that right. You will never have that right in a free society. Ergo, the only conclusion is that you, like most typical social conservatives, do not believe in a free society and do not even grant much less respect the rights of anyone who believes different from you. Why should that be respected? So you think. One can believe what they want just don't act upon it becasue it goes against what you believe and of course a liberal opinion matters more. Sanctimonious bullshit Who is the one who wants to force their belief on others. It sure isn't liberals in this case, unless you consider yourself a liberal. You seem awfully confused. |
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Jun 23, 2023 14:10:16 GMT -5
Exactly that is why it should be left alone if the mothers health is not in danger Does mother's health - also include their mental health? I read about a woman who had twins and a very difficult pregnancy and birth and who was struggling with postpartum depression. She found herself pregnant 9 months after the birth of her twins. She didn't think her mental health OR her marriage would survive having 3 kids under the age of two. She was terrified to face another possible difficult pregnancy while caring for 2 infants - not to mention the terror of a difficult labor/birth (what if she died during childbirth??) . What would this do to her marriage? She had to travel to another state to have an abortion. Should this woman be forced to carry this clearly unwanted child to term? And then what - give it up for adoption? What's the best solution for this FAMILY?? The new baby is part of the FAMIlY |
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Jun 23, 2023 14:12:21 GMT -5
Getting close that is only a 20% spread with only 11% to tip the scale. Another decade or so we may get this done yet The spread is going in the wrong direction for you. Maybe you would be surprised by how many people feel that way. That is why anti-abortionist have to work extra hard. 40% is still alot of people. If your not worried then why all the hoopla |
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Jun 23, 2023 14:13:34 GMT -5
So you think. One can believe what they want just don't act upon it becasue it goes against what you believe and of course a liberal opinion matters more. Sanctimonious bullshit Who is the one who wants to force their belief on others. It sure isn't liberals in this case, unless you consider yourself a liberal. You seem awfully confused. Your the one telling me I shouldn't act upon my opinion because it doesn't align with your beliefs |
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 23, 2023 14:22:46 GMT -5
Who is the one who wants to force their belief on others. It sure isn't liberals in this case, unless you consider yourself a liberal. You seem awfully confused. Your the one telling me I shouldn't act upon my opinion because it doesn't align with your beliefs You still don't get it. You can act on your belief. I will not force you to have an abortion. You, on the other hand, want to force women to continue an unwanted pregnancy because of you belief. How can you not understand that. That is the issue. You seem to understand that with owning a gun. |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 23, 2023 14:24:06 GMT -5
The spread is going in the wrong direction for you. Maybe you would be surprised by how many people feel that way. That is why anti-abortionist have to work extra hard. 40% is still alot of people. If your not worried then why all the hoopla You have lost support in the last year. Every abortion restriction put up to popular vote lost, even in conservative states. Yet you think this is winning? |
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 23, 2023 14:25:42 GMT -5
Does mother's health - also include their mental health? I read about a woman who had twins and a very difficult pregnancy and birth and who was struggling with postpartum depression. She found herself pregnant 9 months after the birth of her twins. She didn't think her mental health OR her marriage would survive having 3 kids under the age of two. She was terrified to face another possible difficult pregnancy while caring for 2 infants - not to mention the terror of a difficult labor/birth (what if she died during childbirth??) . What would this do to her marriage? She had to travel to another state to have an abortion. Should this woman be forced to carry this clearly unwanted child to term? And then what - give it up for adoption? What's the best solution for this FAMILY?? The new baby is part of the FAMIlY It's not a baby yet. It has no idea it has siblings or a mother or a father. Yes, IF it's born it would be part of the family. But, that family that will most likely disintegrate either during the pregnancy or after it's born. So there won't be any family to be a part of. And now 5 humans get to go thru life picking up the pieces. Wouldn't it be heroic to end the pregnancy and potentially save the family?? |
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Jun 23, 2023 14:26:54 GMT -5
The spread is going in the wrong direction for you. Maybe you would be surprised by how many people feel that way. That is why anti-abortionist have to work extra hard. 40% is still alot of people. If your not worried then why all the hoopla Because the minority is taking away the rights of the majority! |
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 23, 2023 14:28:26 GMT -5
That is your opinion. It is not universally accepted. You just refuse to accept that It is interesting that the above ends with no punctuation. I could finish it in a few ways: 1) ... it is not universally accepted, 2) ... public policy should allow for individuals to act on their own opinion, 3) ... your opinion is wrong. 1. you would be suprised how accepted it is (kinda makes you scared) 2. Exactly 3. No its not you are. At least my opinion saves babies This was not meant to be personal. 1) the counter argument here is there is a universally accepted opinion (clearly an ignorant opinion) 2) the counter argument here is that public policy should enforce a community standard. 3) this is where the whole messy argument takes place. I am frequently confused concerning in which of the three people are attempting to argue. |
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 23, 2023 14:35:39 GMT -5
Exactly that is why it should be left alone if the mothers health is not in danger Again in your opinion. Why does that trump my opinion? Just reiterating that a fetus is a live human isn't a valid point, since that point is up for debate. Why does your opinion matter more? And then there is my opinion which is that neither of you have an opinion that should impact the decision that an individual makes for themselves when a decision must be made. |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 23, 2023 14:38:21 GMT -5
Again in your opinion. Why does that trump my opinion? Just reiterating that a fetus is a live human isn't a valid point, since that point is up for debate. Why does your opinion matter more? And then there is my opinion which is that neither of you have an opinion that should impact the decision that an individual makes for themselves when a decision must be made. I agree. The opinion that matters is the individual, since what you do has no impact on me. However,scgal does not appear to agree with that opinion. She seems to be of the opinion that you must do what she believes. Therein lies the problem. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 23, 2023 14:45:12 GMT -5
And then there is my opinion which is that neither of you have an opinion that should impact the decision that an individual makes for themselves when a decision must be made. I agree. The opinion that matters is the individual, since what you do has no impact on me. However,scgal does not appear to agree with that opinion. She seems to be of the opinion that you must do what she believes. Therein lies the problem. Actually her opinion is not the problem. The problem is that voters have put into office people who have voted for and judges who have ruled for restrictions. |
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 23, 2023 15:07:14 GMT -5
scgal doesn't have an opinion. She has a belief. She believes NO woman should be able to have an abortion (unless it's some carefully defined dire situation.) It's better to ruin a marriage, to let a woman die, to keep a family in poverty, to end the hopes and dreams of women and young girls and the men (and boys) effected by an unwanted pregnancy.
If she's willing to die on a hill for that belief - she'd watch her own family members or friends struggle with an UNWANTED pregnancy and be content. I guess it's all about "God's will". It must be their fault if they cannot turn that unwanted pregnancy into a happy ending.
ScGal - if someone you loved and treasured is adversely effected by the ban on abortions - is YOUR belief strong enough to die on that hill and watch your loved one suffer - maybe for the rest of their life? will you accept "God's Will" and be happy for your loved one and that unwanted child?
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 23, 2023 15:12:03 GMT -5
scgal doesn't have an opinion. She has a belief. She believes NO woman should be able to have an abortion (unless it's some carefully defined dire situation.) It's better to ruin a marriage, to let a woman die, to keep a family in poverty, to end the hopes and dreams of women and young girls and the men (and boys) effected by an unwanted pregnancy. If she's willing to die on a hill for that belief - she'd watch her own family members or friends struggle with an UNWANTED pregnancy and be content. I guess it's all about "God's will". It must be their fault if they cannot turn that unwanted pregnancy into a happy ending. ScGal - if someone you loved and treasured is adversely effected by the ban on abortions - is YOUR belief strong enough to die on that hill and watch your loved one suffer - maybe for the rest of their life? will you accept "God's Will" and be happy for your loved one? What you need to understand is this- The only moral abortion is my abortion. Everybody else's abortions are immoral |
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 23, 2023 15:24:24 GMT -5
I think about my personal exposures to the elective abortion issue as I read shit written here. I just shake my head.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 23, 2023 16:00:39 GMT -5
No, and please don't think that. Any liberal worthy of the name defends your right to think whatever you want, whether it is guns, abortion, or whatever. The reason you are not respected is because you want to act on that. Because you think your opinion should outweigh other people's reality. You think your opinion outweighs other people's rights. You do not have that right. You will never have that right in a free society. Ergo, the only conclusion is that you, like most typical social conservatives, do not believe in a free society and do not even grant much less respect the rights of anyone who believes different from you. Why should that be respected? Ok lets play...You say I think my opinion outweighs other peoples rights. What about if there was a ban on elective non-medical abortion, and the SC said there is baby rights here. It is no longer just my opinion correct then does your opinion matter just because you don't agree with me? After all its just your opinion The Supreme Court has erred multiple times in the past. They will do so again. This particular Court, manned as it is with small-minded bigots like Clarence Thomas, and perhaps to a somewhat lesser extent Samuel Alito, is prone to err more than most. I would not put any credence into their rulings that undermine human or civil rights. Your example, were it to ever happen, would just prove another error of a politically-minded Court. And my opinion doesn't matter, if it is only my opinion. I've said that. Logic, reason, and an accurate reading of the Constitution matter. It just so happens that my public opinion on an issue always winds up in agreement with logic, reason, and an accurate reading of the Constitution. |
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Post by tallguy on Jun 23, 2023 16:06:37 GMT -5
No, and please don't think that. Any liberal worthy of the name defends your right to think whatever you want, whether it is guns, abortion, or whatever. The reason you are not respected is because you want to act on that. Because you think your opinion should outweigh other people's reality. You think your opinion outweighs other people's rights. You do not have that right. You will never have that right in a free society. Ergo, the only conclusion is that you, like most typical social conservatives, do not believe in a free society and do not even grant much less respect the rights of anyone who believes different from you. Why should that be respected? So you think. One can believe what they want just don't act upon it becasue it goes against what you believe and of course a liberal opinion matters more. Sanctimonious bullshit I really wish you were able to understand the questions involved here. Things would be so much better all around for everybody. |
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 23, 2023 17:27:54 GMT -5
scgal doesn't have an opinion. She has a belief. She believes NO woman should be able to have an abortion (unless it's some carefully defined dire situation.) It's better to ruin a marriage, to let a woman die, to keep a family in poverty, to end the hopes and dreams of women and young girls and the men (and boys) effected by an unwanted pregnancy. If she's willing to die on a hill for that belief - she'd watch her own family members or friends struggle with an UNWANTED pregnancy and be content. I guess it's all about "God's will". It must be their fault if they cannot turn that unwanted pregnancy into a happy ending. ScGal - if someone you loved and treasured is adversely effected by the ban on abortions - is YOUR belief strong enough to die on that hill and watch your loved one suffer - maybe for the rest of their life? will you accept "God's Will" and be happy for your loved one? What you need to understand is this- The only moral abortion is my abortion. Everybody else's abortions are immoral That might not be true for scgal. I've witnessed people turn against love ones who didn't toe the "morally acceptable line". God asks a lot from his followers - namely that God comes first, ALWAYS. Most religions are about what humans OWE God - not what God owes to humans. Heck the all beloved ten commandments the first 3 are about human duties and obligations to God. It's easy to have a belief - but when it comes right down to it ... do you pay the price/accept the consequences of it or do you modify your belief (or come to some new and different understanding of it.) Everyone should have a crisis of faith - more than once (heck lots of times!) in their lifetime. It's part of becoming a better person (or I guess growing in your "faith"). It isn't about losing your faith or your belief in God (but that might happen). I can respect someone who is willing to stick to their belief no matter what it costs them (and others). Their mind will not be changed. |
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 23, 2023 18:47:20 GMT -5
Seat belt laws save lives of actual humans. If that was all there was, a libertarian argument would be adequate. However, there are societal costs to accidents. Injured people wind up in the hospital, many times needing expensive medical care. We all pay for that. So, someone not wearing a seatbelt costs me money. If they are uninsured, someone, usually the government, meaning the taxpayer pays. I thought conservatives didn’t like to pay taxes for other people. Now, how does someone having an abortion affect you? Don’t worry, I won’t hold my breath waiting for an answer, since you don’t like answering these sort of questions Yet an aborton (sic) ends the live (sic) of an actual human. you keep moving the goalposts. at one point you called it a developing human. i can go along with that. at least i think you did. now you are saying an "actual human". i will ask you again: what defines that? most people think it is consciousness. some thing it is the ability to stay alive without the assistance of a host. what do you think? |
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 23, 2023 18:48:57 GMT -5
60% of people think abortion should be legal in some fashion. That appears to be a majority. Getting close that is only a 20% spread with only 11% to tip the scale. Another decade or so we may get this done yet except for two things: 1) that number is increasing. 2) you already "got it done" WITHOUT the majority. |
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 23, 2023 18:57:30 GMT -5
Getting close that is only a 20% spread with only 11% to tip the scale. Another decade or so we may get this done yet except for two things: 1) that number is increasing. 2) you already "got it done" WITHOUT the majority. I don't thinking it will be "done" until all performed abortions in the US are illegal and use medically unsound practices. |
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Post by Opti on Jun 23, 2023 19:06:09 GMT -5
What you need to understand is this- The only moral abortion is my abortion. Everybody else's abortions are immoral That might not be true for scgal. I've witnessed people turn against love ones who didn't toe the "morally acceptable line". God asks a lot from his followers - namely that God comes first, ALWAYS. Most religions are about what humans OWE God - not what God owes to humans. Heck the all beloved ten commandments the first 3 are about human duties and obligations to God. It's easy to have a belief - but when it comes right down to it ... do you pay the price/accept the consequences of it or do you modify your belief (or come to some new and different understanding of it.) Everyone should have a crisis of faith - more than once (heck lots of times!) in their lifetime. It's part of becoming a better person (or I guess growing in your "faith"). It isn't about losing your faith or your belief in God (but that might happen). I can respect someone who is willing to stick to their belief no matter what it costs them (and others). Their mind will not be changed. Yet forbidding abortion is not biblical no matter what the Catholic church or the Evangelicals say. People have misused the Bible for their agenda as long as it existed, and I believe while it was being written as well. It's been used to justify slavery, keeping women as lesser beings, to forbid birth control and abortion, and other non-biblical stuff. Yes, there were slaves in biblical times, but I do not remember a single passage attributed to Jesus or God imploring people to get slaves. At best, the letter writers of the time told Christians at the very least they had to treat their slaves well. Abortion is not immoral. It's hard for me to see abortion as a moral issue given everyday abortions (miscarriages and removal of ectopic pregnancies occur). I think forced birth people may be immoral because they don't really understand what they want to happen. They are so focused on that a zygote MAY become a full functioning human being they ignore that like all of the animal kingdom, many possible young never make it that far. Why do they think they are above nature and God? That's what I would like to know. When did you think you were God and could tell other people what they could do with their bodies and be willing to condemn them simply because they did not want to die with a rotting fetus in them? |
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Post by tallguy on Jun 23, 2023 21:02:57 GMT -5
1. you would be suprised how accepted it is (kinda makes you scared) 2. Exactly 3. No its not you are. At least my opinion saves babies 60% of people think abortion should be legal in some fashion. That appears to be a majority. New poll last week is that 69% think that first-trimester abortions should be legal. 34% say it should be legal in all circumstances. Another 51% say it should be legal in some circumstances, making it 85% showing some support for abortion. 13% say it should be illegal in all circumstances. It was 21% in 2019, so 40% of those people changed their minds in four years. I'd be willing to bet that almost all did so in the last year. Thanks, Republicans.  Broader Support for Abortion Rights Continues Post-Dobbs |
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