GOP bullshittery

[tallguy]

Apr 7, 2023 10:57:45 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Apr 7, 2023 0:29:16 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Do everything you can to ensure that neither you nor anyone you know ever vote Republican again?

'It's worth it': Charlie Kirk calls school shootings 'a prudent deal' to protect the Second Amendment


There is a lot of nonsense coming from Mr. Kirk in the article.  Rather than quoting him, I'd rather quote a different part of it, where the Washington Post refuted Mr. Kirk's contentions:
No solution to the problems of guns and gun violence will ever come from Republicans.  They are far too invested in denying facts that disagree with their preferred narrative.  They are also far too dependent on the campaign cash and votes that come from catering to the crazies on the issue. 

simply laying out point number two is insufficient.  people need to understand WHY they (or specifically, Jefferson) felt this way.

Jefferson felt that standing armies were a danger to a "free state".  if you read the second amendment with this in mind, it makes rock solid sense why it is there.  but you can also explore WHY he felt that way.  and there were several reasons.  one is that federal armies are almost universally used to CAUSE trouble rather than prevent it.  another is that it drains resources from "protecting the general welfare".  but finally, standing armies are OFTEN deployed AGAINST citizens.

what the US did under Wilson forever undermined our safety as citizens.  so long as our leaders had the public interest in mind, it works out fine.  as soon as you have someone in the WH that has his OWN interests in mind, no matter what the impact on the public, standing armies are a menace to everyone OTHER than that leader.

this is what Jefferson feared.  and it was staring us right in the face on or around January 6th 2021.  but rather than having a robust debate about it and highlighting the danger, we have not even discussed it.

these are perilous times for the US.  

Authoritarians and fascists rarely care, and can even more rarely be convinced.  

[djAdvocate]

Apr 7, 2023 11:09:06 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Apr 7, 2023 10:57:45 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

simply laying out point number two is insufficient.  people need to understand WHY they (or specifically, Jefferson) felt this way.

Jefferson felt that standing armies were a danger to a "free state".  if you read the second amendment with this in mind, it makes rock solid sense why it is there.  but you can also explore WHY he felt that way.  and there were several reasons.  one is that federal armies are almost universally used to CAUSE trouble rather than prevent it.  another is that it drains resources from "protecting the general welfare".  but finally, standing armies are OFTEN deployed AGAINST citizens.

what the US did under Wilson forever undermined our safety as citizens.  so long as our leaders had the public interest in mind, it works out fine.  as soon as you have someone in the WH that has his OWN interests in mind, no matter what the impact on the public, standing armies are a menace to everyone OTHER than that leader.

this is what Jefferson feared.  and it was staring us right in the face on or around January 6th 2021.  but rather than having a robust debate about it and highlighting the danger, we have not even discussed it.

these are perilous times for the US.  

Authoritarians and fascists rarely care, and can even more rarely be convinced.  

the lesson is not for authoritarians and fascists.  it is for those that oppose them
hopefully we are still in the majority.  if not, the US is doomed.

[kadee79]

What Kirk said NEEDS to be pointed out over & over & over & over until EVERYONE understands what he is saying.  He is saying that lives of all ages are not worth as much as the Second Amendment of the US Constitution.   So it's ok for anyone to shoot your kids, your grandkids, your parents, your siblings...anyone & everyone....as long as the Second Amendment still stands.

THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH THAT SHOULD NOT VOTE FOR ANY GOPer ever again.

[grumpyhermit]

I feel like most people still voting GOP have already made their peace with what they consider the acceptable cost of keeping gun laws lax. Partly because they actually believe the bullshit propaganda about guns, and partly because, in their heart of hearts, they likely don't think it will actually impact THEM. 

Just like we saw with the abortion issues, they won't wake up until they feel the impacts directly, and by then it will be far too late. 

[djAdvocate]

Apr 7, 2023 11:33:48 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

What Kirk said NEEDS to be pointed out over & over & over & over until EVERYONE understands what he is saying.  He is saying that lives of all ages are not worth as much as the Second Amendment of the US Constitution.   So it's ok for anyone to shoot your kids, your grandkids, your parents, your siblings...anyone & everyone....as long as the Second Amendment still stands.

THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH THAT SHOULD NOT VOTE FOR ANY GOPer ever again.

right, so making the reducio ad absurdum argument, we should line up all of our kids and shoot them with AR-15's rather than banning that class of weapons.

[tallguy]

I'm still of the opinion that anyone wanting to vote to expand gun rights should have to volunteer to be shot first, so they know what really happens when guns are used.  

[pulmonarymd]

If we are now admitting we are not going to solve problems(and not even try), why not go further. We aren’t going to solve immigration, so why are conservatives upset. Same with the debt. If we can’t solve any problems anymore, why are they upset about tha above 2 issues

[happyhoix]

Saw the GOP leader of the TN House claiming on TV this AM that what these three dems did was far worse than what happened on J6.

It’s not the fact that they stood up and shouted on a bullhorn, disrupting the session. It’s that they were insisting on enacting gun control, which is unAmerican and traitorous - and that was how they disgraced their office.

By suggesting we have a gun problem.

So now if you disagree with the GOP majority you’re a traitor.

What’s next, mandatory loyalty oaths? Everyone has to wear pins on their clothing supporting the GOP or risk getting beaten up? Put your hand on your heart as a GOP House member passes or get arrested for treason?

Deja vu all over again.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 7, 2023 14:44:58 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

If we are now admitting we are not going to solve problems(and not even try), why not go further. We aren’t going to solve immigration, so why are conservatives upset. Same with the debt. If we can’t solve any problems anymore, why are they upset about tha above 2 issues

well, ever since Reagan poisoned us against our own government we have been heading in one of two directions: anarchy or fascism.  since fascism is well organized compared to anarchism, it generally wins.

we either need to start trusting our institutions again, or the end is not good.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 7, 2023 15:29:14 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Saw the GOP leader of the TN House claiming on TV this AM that what these three dems did was far worse than what happened on J6.

i have seen DOZENS claim that what the GOP did was worse than J6.

so, let's have an honest debate about it, and see who wins.

[billisonboard]

Apr 7, 2023 16:03:54 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Apr 7, 2023 15:29:14 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Saw the GOP leader of the TN House claiming on TV this AM that what these three dems did was far worse than what happened on J6.

i have seen DOZENS claim that what the GOP did was worse than J6.

so, let's have an honest debate about it, and see who wins.

I say J6. Over a thousand people have been charged with crimes for their behavior on/around January 6th. The GOP followed existing procedures in Tennessee.

[happyhoix]

Sorry Tenn, your state is the least democratic in the nation.

www.vox.com/policy/2023/4/7/23673998/tennessee-expulsions-state-democracy-measure

“Democrats are so efficiently packed in a handful of strongly Democratic districts that Republicans have a near-guaranteed super-supermajority (over 80 percent of seats) in the statehouse’s upper chamber.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 7, 2023 16:28:12 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Sorry Tenn, your state is the least democratic in the nation.

www.vox.com/policy/2023/4/7/23673998/tennessee-expulsions-state-democracy-measure

“Democrats are so efficiently packed in a handful of strongly Democratic districts that Republicans have a near-guaranteed super-supermajority (over 80 percent of seats) in the statehouse’s upper chamber.

if TN has a referendum system, they should put a public redistricting commission on the ballot.  it has done wonders in CA.  our electorate pretty much reflects the population perfectly, here.

[Tennesseer]

Apr 7, 2023 16:28:12 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Sorry Tenn, your state is the least democratic in the nation.

www.vox.com/policy/2023/4/7/23673998/tennessee-expulsions-state-democracy-measure

“Democrats are so efficiently packed in a handful of strongly Democratic districts that Republicans have a near-guaranteed super-supermajority (over 80 percent of seats) in the statehouse’s upper chamber.

It's appalling.

I expect Tennessee to ask Louisiana to dig up John Thomas Scopes remains and send them to Tennessee so they can put him on trial again.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Apr 5, 2023 12:19:34 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Apr 5, 2023 10:01:00 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

As the chants echoed throughout the Capitol, Jones, Johnson and Pearson approached the front of the House chamber with a bullhorn.

As the three shared the bullhorn and cheered on the crowd, Sexton, a Republican, quickly called for a recess. (From the link in the OP)

I think the three earned sanctions. They are sworn members of a deliberative body that they disrupted in an inappropriate way while it was in session. If they had been in the hall with the protesters, that would be different. Then they would have been citizens raising their voices. But on the chamber floor, they are in an official role and should have behaved in accordance with its rules.

Isn't this along the lines of what Republican politicians have been doing right along- being disruptive, pushing their own misinformation agenda, etc?   

Well...I don't think the three Democrat legislators were pushing misinformation, but I'll minutely concede. 

Apr 5, 2023 15:07:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The three Tennessee Democrats were protesting something far more important to Tennessee republicans than free speech, religious freedom or the right to vote:  firearms. 

True, but it was also HOW they were protesting--a setting that has clear decorum expectations and rules of engagement. 

Apr 5, 2023 16:00:47 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 5, 2023 15:47:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Thanks for letting me know. Not feeling a need to hear rationalizations for inappropriate behavior. By running for and accepting office, one is making the choice to work within the system to bring about change. They violated that principle and consequences are a reasonable result.

One republican member of the house compared the actions of the three democratic members to the attack on Congress on January 6, 2021. He said in fact it was worse than January 6.

Yeah, that's an asinine comparison.

Apr 5, 2023 17:00:19 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 5, 2023 16:00:47 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

One republican member of the house compared the actions of the three democratic members to the attack on Congress on January 6, 2021. He said in fact it was worse than January 6.

Both were interference with official legislative business, so rough comparison is fair. Have no idea what business was on the calendar that day in Tennessee so not sure how reasonable the "worse" fits. Do think we likely have a politician engaging in a bit of hyperbole which is shocking

The problem is that this hyperbolic rhetoric (from both sides) has so declined productive discourse that we're all just perturbed and exhausted. 

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Apr 7, 2023 16:28:12 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Sorry Tenn, your state is the least democratic in the nation.

www.vox.com/policy/2023/4/7/23673998/tennessee-expulsions-state-democracy-measure

“Democrats are so efficiently packed in a handful of strongly Democratic districts that Republicans have a near-guaranteed super-supermajority (over 80 percent of seats) in the statehouse’s upper chamber.

Oregon is vice versa. It's to the point that people have suggested it's landowners who should get a vote not adult citizens. 

[djAdvocate]

Apr 8, 2023 9:30:06 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Apr 5, 2023 12:19:34 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Isn't this along the lines of what Republican politicians have been doing right along- being disruptive, pushing their own misinformation agenda, etc?   

Well...I don't think the three Democrat legislators were pushing misinformation, but I'll minutely concede. 

Apr 5, 2023 15:07:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The three Tennessee Democrats were protesting something far more important to Tennessee republicans than free speech, religious freedom or the right to vote:  firearms. 

True, but it was also HOW they were protesting--a setting that has clear decorum expectations and rules of engagement. 

Apr 5, 2023 16:00:47 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

One republican member of the house compared the actions of the three democratic members to the attack on Congress on January 6, 2021. He said in fact it was worse than January 6.

Yeah, that's an asinine comparison.

Apr 5, 2023 17:00:19 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Both were interference with official legislative business, so rough comparison is fair. Have no idea what business was on the calendar that day in Tennessee so not sure how reasonable the "worse" fits. Do think we likely have a politician engaging in a bit of hyperbole which is shocking

The problem is that this hyperbolic rhetoric (from both sides) has so declined productive discourse that we're all just perturbed and exhausted. 

false equivalency, imo.
the rhetoric on the right is almost completely nonsensical and anti-democratic.
i see very little that compares to it on the left.  moreover, what PRODUCTIVE legislation has the right proposed?  i have not heard anything.  i could name TEN productive things that the left has proposed without much effort.

not that i don't see your point.
but i will point out that Obama was perhaps the most 
gracious and accommodating president i have seen in my
lifetime, and the right basically wanted to bury him.
so what the hell do you suggest the left does?

[djAdvocate]

Apr 8, 2023 9:36:29 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Apr 7, 2023 16:28:12 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Sorry Tenn, your state is the least democratic in the nation.

www.vox.com/policy/2023/4/7/23673998/tennessee-expulsions-state-democracy-measure

“Democrats are so efficiently packed in a handful of strongly Democratic districts that Republicans have a near-guaranteed super-supermajority (over 80 percent of seats) in the statehouse’s upper chamber.

Oregon is vice versa. It's to the point that people have suggested it's landowners who should get a vote not adult citizens. 

that is what John Jay said, and it is what i would call "the prevailing view" in congress.
in other words, it is nothing new.  it dates back to colonial America.

[billisonboard]

Apr 8, 2023 11:55:57 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Apr 8, 2023 9:30:06 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Well...I don't think the three Democrat legislators were pushing misinformation, but I'll minutely concede. 
True, but it was also HOW they were protesting--a setting that has clear decorum expectations and rules of engagement. 

Yeah, that's an asinine comparison.

The problem is that this hyperbolic rhetoric (from both sides) has so declined productive discourse that we're all just perturbed and exhausted. 

false equivalency, imo.
the rhetoric on the right is almost completely nonsensical and anti-democratic.
i see very little that compares to it on the left.  moreover, what PRODUCTIVE legislation has the right proposed?  i have not heard anything.  i could name TEN productive things that the left has proposed without much effort.

not that i don't see your point.
but i will point out that Obama was perhaps the most 
gracious and accommodating president i have seen in my
lifetime, and the right basically wanted to bury him.
so what the hell do you suggest the left does?

The question I have in my mind is "If Obama had been less gracious and accommodating, what positive policy impact would it have had?" I don't have an answer for that.

[happyhoix]

The two districts whose reps got kicked out are allowed to reappoint those reps to the House.

However, the GOP in the House is threatening Memphis that they will cut off millions of dollars of promised funding for Memphis if the county commissioners reappoint Pearson to the House.

www.fox13memphis.com/news/memphians-talk-pearson-ousting-pearson-confirms-re-election-plans/article_a314c216-d582-11ed-9766-8f4212e502ec.html

The commission has the ability to appoint someone to serve until the election.

GOP isn’t even pretending they aren’t using new Jim Crow tactics.

I heard a talking head this AM saying that he thought in some of these solidly gerrymandered states like Tennessee, the GOP is so firmly in charge, with such an overwhelming majority in the state Houses, they don’t even have to pretend to be fair anymore.

I would think Memphis could take this to the Supreme Court to resolve for them, but not the current Supreme Court.

[billisonboard]

In the non-gerrymander-able statewide governor race in 2022 the Republican candidate got 64.9% of the vote. Assuming a district plan that matched that partisan split, the GOP would only be one short of a supermajority. Gerrymandering is an issue, but far from the answer to GOP control in Tennessee.

[Pink Cashmere]

Apr 9, 2023 12:43:35 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

The two districts whose reps got kicked out are allowed to reappoint those reps to the House.

However, the GOP in the House is threatening Memphis that they will cut off millions of dollars of promised funding for Memphis if the county commissioners reappoint Pearson to the House.

www.fox13memphis.com/news/memphians-talk-pearson-ousting-pearson-confirms-re-election-plans/article_a314c216-d582-11ed-9766-8f4212e502ec.html

The commission has the ability to appoint someone to serve until the election.

GOP isn’t even pretending they aren’t using new Jim Crow tactics.

I heard a talking head this AM saying that he thought in some of these solidly gerrymandered states like Tennessee, the GOP is so firmly in charge, with such an overwhelming majority in the state Houses, they don’t even have to pretend to be fair anymore.

I would think Memphis could take this to the Supreme Court to resolve for them, but not the current Supreme Court.

So if the citizens in Shelby County and the county commissioners do what is within their rights to do, the city of Memphis will be punished. Am I understanding that correctly?

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2023 12:43:35 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

The two districts whose reps got kicked out are allowed to reappoint those reps to the House.

However, the GOP in the House is threatening Memphis that they will cut off millions of dollars of promised funding for Memphis if the county commissioners reappoint Pearson to the House.

www.fox13memphis.com/news/memphians-talk-pearson-ousting-pearson-confirms-re-election-plans/article_a314c216-d582-11ed-9766-8f4212e502ec.html

The commission has the ability to appoint someone to serve until the election.

GOP isn’t even pretending they aren’t using new Jim Crow tactics.

I heard a talking head this AM saying that he thought in some of these solidly gerrymandered states like Tennessee, the GOP is so firmly in charge, with such an overwhelming majority in the state Houses, they don’t even have to pretend to be fair anymore.

I would think Memphis could take this to the Supreme Court to resolve for them, but not the current Supreme Court.

From the link:

The office of Tennessee Speaker of the House Cameron Sexton provided the following statement:

“The governor has proposed $350 million for the Memphis stadiums in the budget; the speaker has been and will continue to be supportive of these projects. The House hasn’t entered into budget negotiations with the Senate at this time. He is hopeful the funding will remain in when the final budget is presented on both floors.”

[happyhoix]

Apr 9, 2023 14:29:35 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Apr 9, 2023 12:43:35 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

The two districts whose reps got kicked out are allowed to reappoint those reps to the House.

However, the GOP in the House is threatening Memphis that they will cut off millions of dollars of promised funding for Memphis if the county commissioners reappoint Pearson to the House.

www.fox13memphis.com/news/memphians-talk-pearson-ousting-pearson-confirms-re-election-plans/article_a314c216-d582-11ed-9766-8f4212e502ec.html

The commission has the ability to appoint someone to serve until the election.

GOP isn’t even pretending they aren’t using new Jim Crow tactics.

I heard a talking head this AM saying that he thought in some of these solidly gerrymandered states like Tennessee, the GOP is so firmly in charge, with such an overwhelming majority in the state Houses, they don’t even have to pretend to be fair anymore.

I would think Memphis could take this to the Supreme Court to resolve for them, but not the current Supreme Court.

So if the citizens in Shelby County and the county commissioners do what is within their rights to do, the city of Memphis will be punished. Am I understanding that correctly?

That is the rumor going around. As Bills pointed out, the GOP head of the state House claims he is supportive of the funding and hopes it will remain in the final budget.  

So I would say it was either just a rumor, or that the House speaker is waiting to see how much of a stink it might cause if he tries to withhold the funding at some future date. 

I don’t see that it would gain them much - I don’t think there is any way they can keep the guy from serving in the House if he gets elected in the next election, so they’d only keep him out until then. 

Still, the GOP controlled state houses have been doing all kinds of things I wouldn’t have thought they would dare to do, lately. 

[Pink Cashmere]

Apr 9, 2023 18:36:55 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Apr 9, 2023 14:29:35 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

So if the citizens in Shelby County and the county commissioners do what is within their rights to do, the city of Memphis will be punished. Am I understanding that correctly?

That is the rumor going around. As Bills pointed out, the GOP head of the state House claims he is supportive of the funding and hopes it will remain in the final budget.  

So I would say it was either just a rumor, or that the House speaker is waiting to see how much of a stink it might cause if he tries to withhold the funding at some future date. 

I don’t see that it would gain them much - I don’t think there is any way they can keep the guy from serving in the House if he gets elected in the next election, so they’d only keep him out until then. 

Still, the GOP controlled state houses have been doing all kinds of things I wouldn’t have thought they would dare to do, lately. 

It has been my opinion for some time that Memphis is a pain in Governor’s Lee’s ass, and he would be happy if the whole city just fell in the Mississippi River somehow.

However, even though Memphis is pretty much a poor city, a few small cities in Northern Mississippi and Arkansas benefit from their close proximity to Memphis. Memphians that can do so, cross state lines to shop. Where my other house is, the 20 years I lived there, it was more convenient for me to shop in Mississippi even though I lived in Tennessee. I could literally walk to Mississippi in about 15 minutes. In my car, I could get to all kinds of stores in Mississippi in less than 10 minutes, vs driving 20 or 30 minutes to get to the same stores in Tennessee. Also, a LOT of people that earn their living in Memphis take their income home to where they live, in Mississippi and Arkansas. I work a blue collar job in Memphis, and many of my coworkers, including me, live in the suburbs around Memphis, or in Mississippi or Arkansas. I have coworkers that drive an hour or a little more, to get to work, because they don’t live in Memphis.

What I’m getting at is that it’s my opinion that if lawmakers allow Memphis to go even further down in flames (there are reasons people that make their money in Memphis don’t want to live there), a serious negative impact on the economy, won’t just impact the residents of the city. Because it’s in a corner of Tennessee and part of a tri state area, what happens in Memphis also affects residents of the bordering red states. Regardless of what those people think about Memphis and it’s residents, it seems to me that if they had enough sense to think logically, they would acknowledge that being so close geographically to the city of Memphis is the reason their own counties and cities are doing well.

But I am new to trying to understand all this politics BS, especially the parts concerning why and how this nation is going off the rails in my uneducated opinion, so what do I know.

[Pink Cashmere]

Any thoughts on why Rep. Gloria Johnson was not expelled along with the other 2?

[tallguy]

"Because we (the GOP) don't want our older white women to think we don't like or are threatened by older white women?"

Nah, that can't be it.  

[Tennesseer]

Apr 10, 2023 16:41:57 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Any thoughts on why Rep. Gloria Johnson was not expelled along with the other 2?

Rep Justin Jones of Nashville has been sworn back into office. Back to work for Jones.

Nashville Metro Council reinstates expelled lawmaker

[billisonboard]

Apr 10, 2023 16:41:57 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Any thoughts on why Rep. Gloria Johnson was not expelled along with the other 2?

Amid social media commentary and reports suggesting why Rep. Gloria Johnson was not expelled while two Black representatives were expelled, Rep. Lowell Russell (R-Vonore) said he voted not to expel Johnson because she “did not participate to the extent that Jones and Pearson did.”
....
“Either Jones or Pearson smuggled a bullhorn into the chamber. The two used that bullhorn to shout and scream and incite the crowd to chant “no action, no peace”. The video showed Johnson did not appear to do anything other than stand near the Well and mover her lips,” he said in the statement. link

[pulmonarymd]

Whether you think that is a good reason or not, it is not a good look to expel the 2 they did and not expel the white women. Especially for a party that is clearly gunning for the racist white vite. If you want to broaden your appeal, it isn’t working.

Now, I realize it is Tennessee and it doesn’t matter to them, but nationally it just feeds the narrative