LSU vs Iowa Drama

[Pink Cashmere]

Apr 6, 2023 17:56:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Want to add: certainly still processing and seeing if more "data" becomes available. I do feel some discomfort with my level of a factual basis to talk about this. Won't have a problem if I need to end up saying, "Well if I had known that from the start, ..." 

I did (briefly) Google to see if I could (easily) find who or what Reese was referring to when she said people had been calling her hood and ghetto all season. It seems that that was mostly said in comments on Twitter, but I didn’t spend a lot of time on it, so idk for sure.

I did see that Keith Olbermann or whatever his name is, called her a “fucking idiot” after she did the hand thing, and some other person in the media called her “classless”. 

When I do speak on things here that I feel are racially motivated, I am always very mindful of the fact that when a Black person speaks on such things, they are often accused of “pulling the race card” even when facts clearly point to something actually being racially motivated. So, because I do want my voice to be heard and I want to be taken seriously by the people that are willing to listen to me when I do have something to say, I feel like I have to be careful about what I speak on and what I say, so that it’s not easy to legitimately dismiss me as just a Black person that blames every negative thing that happens in a Black person’s life on racism, because that’s not true.

That is why I stepped back from this thread and am treading carefully with my posts now, because I need to be sure I have my facts together before I say I absolutely believe something happened because of racism. 

[billisonboard]

Apr 6, 2023 18:31:16 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Apr 6, 2023 17:56:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Want to add: certainly still processing and seeing if more "data" becomes available. I do feel some discomfort with my level of a factual basis to talk about this. Won't have a problem if I need to end up saying, "Well if I had known that from the start, ..." 

I did (briefly) Google to see if I could (easily) find who or what Reese was referring to when she said people had been calling her hood and ghetto all season. It seems that that was mostly said in comments on Twitter, but I didn’t spend a lot of time on it, so idk for sure.

I did see that Keith Olbermann or whatever his name is, called her a “fucking idiot” after she did the hand thing, and some other person in the media called her “classless”. 

When I do speak on things here that I feel are racially motivated, I am always very mindful of the fact that when a Black person speaks on such things, they are often accused of “pulling the race card” even when facts clearly point to something actually being racially motivated. So, because I do want my voice to be heard and I want to be taken seriously by the people that are willing to listen to me when I do have something to say, I feel like I have to be careful about what I speak on and what I say, so that it’s not easy to legitimately dismiss me as just a Black person that blames every negative thing that happens in a Black person’s life on racism, because that’s not true.

That is why I stepped back from this thread and am treading carefully with my posts now, because I need to be sure I have my facts together before I say I absolutely believe something happened because of racism. 

I would like to think that if Clark had been the one making the gesture in that moment because the game had gone differently I would still label it "classless". When i saw the video of Clark doing it in the other game it did appear that it was towards her teammates and more of an inside team thing. I did read that she did direct it then or at some other point at an opponent and that I would label classless also. (Olbermann is his own personal example of a fucking idiot so has no room to talk.)

I am thinking a fair part of this centers around "respect". I have read comments from her about how no one should ever show her disrespect and if they do, she will make sure she gets even. Granted, no one should ever show anyone disrespect but we live in an imperfect world and sometimes disrespect is given or perceived. So there is a need to gain some control on reactions. Otherwise there is too much "so I shot him" and "so I hit her" going on when one is or feels disrespected. I can see if she has a heightened sense of being disrespected, coaches and others would try to temper that. It can be motivating to a certain level but could get over the top as well. The situation with Jill Biden and the White House visit seems to be an example. There was disrespect and she was right to call it out. But I think it would a good thing to now let it go, knowing she had made them step back.

[Pink Cashmere]

Apr 6, 2023 19:35:00 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 6, 2023 18:31:16 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

I did (briefly) Google to see if I could (easily) find who or what Reese was referring to when she said people had been calling her hood and ghetto all season. It seems that that was mostly said in comments on Twitter, but I didn’t spend a lot of time on it, so idk for sure.

I did see that Keith Olbermann or whatever his name is, called her a “fucking idiot” after she did the hand thing, and some other person in the media called her “classless”. 

When I do speak on things here that I feel are racially motivated, I am always very mindful of the fact that when a Black person speaks on such things, they are often accused of “pulling the race card” even when facts clearly point to something actually being racially motivated. So, because I do want my voice to be heard and I want to be taken seriously by the people that are willing to listen to me when I do have something to say, I feel like I have to be careful about what I speak on and what I say, so that it’s not easy to legitimately dismiss me as just a Black person that blames every negative thing that happens in a Black person’s life on racism, because that’s not true.

That is why I stepped back from this thread and am treading carefully with my posts now, because I need to be sure I have my facts together before I say I absolutely believe something happened because of racism. 

I would like to think that if Clark had been the one making the gesture in that moment because the game had gone differently I would still label it "classless". When i saw the video of Clark doing it in the other game it did appear that it was towards her teammates and more of an inside team thing. I did read that she did direct it then or at some other point at an opponent and that I would label classless also. (Olbermann is his own personal example of a fucking idiot so has no room to talk.)

I am thinking a fair part of this centers around "respect". I have read comments from her about how no one should ever show her disrespect and if they do, she will make sure she gets even. Granted, no one should ever show anyone disrespect but we live in an imperfect world and sometimes disrespect is given or perceived. So there is a need to gain some control on reactions. Otherwise there is too much "so I shot him" and "so I hit her" going on when one is or feels disrespected. I can see if she has a heightened sense of being disrespected, coaches and others would try to temper that. It can be motivating to a certain level but could get over the top as well. The situation with Jill Biden and the White House visit seems to be an example. There was disrespect and she was right to call it out. But I think it would a good thing to now let it go, knowing she had made them step back.

IIRC, I read that Reese felt like Clark had been disrespectful to one of her teammates, and another team that Reese felt an alliance to. 

But as an old, ornery woman that has issues with people being disrespectful to me, I do believe a purely emotional reaction is not always the best way of handling certain situations. I am also old enough to be Reese’s mother though.

Did Reese’s reaction make them step back, or did public opinion and Jill Biden and the White House realizing she’d probably made a public relations mistake cause the correction?

[billisonboard]

Apr 6, 2023 19:51:03 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Apr 6, 2023 19:35:00 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I would like to think that if Clark had been the one making the gesture in that moment because the game had gone differently I would still label it "classless". When i saw the video of Clark doing it in the other game it did appear that it was towards her teammates and more of an inside team thing. I did read that she did direct it then or at some other point at an opponent and that I would label classless also. (Olbermann is his own personal example of a fucking idiot so has no room to talk.)

I am thinking a fair part of this centers around "respect". I have read comments from her about how no one should ever show her disrespect and if they do, she will make sure she gets even. Granted, no one should ever show anyone disrespect but we live in an imperfect world and sometimes disrespect is given or perceived. So there is a need to gain some control on reactions. Otherwise there is too much "so I shot him" and "so I hit her" going on when one is or feels disrespected. I can see if she has a heightened sense of being disrespected, coaches and others would try to temper that. It can be motivating to a certain level but could get over the top as well. The situation with Jill Biden and the White House visit seems to be an example. There was disrespect and she was right to call it out. But I think it would a good thing to now let it go, knowing she had made them step back.

IIRC, I read that Reese felt like Clark had been disrespectful to one of her teammates, and another team that Reese felt an alliance to. 

But as an old, ornery woman that has issues with people being disrespectful to me, I do believe a purely emotional reaction is not always the best way of handling certain situations. I am also old enough to be Reese’s mother though.

Did Reese’s reaction make them step back, or did public opinion and Jill Biden and the White House realizing she’d probably made a public relations mistake cause the correction?

So Reese needed to take revenge for her teammate and the other team? They couldn't handle it themselves? That is what I wonder about with her.

I think Reese's comment and the public reaction it helped create was a major catalyst for that realization. I know it made me think more about the idea.

[azucena]

Pink - for what it's worth I did follow the women's tournament and I thought the media comments the next day about Reese were racist. I also think if it were men's sports, the reporting would have been different. I'm glad you spoke up here if only to corroborate my gut feel. I'll ashamedly admit that I had a tiny personal pause wondering if I was jumping to race too quickly. Clearly I still need to work on my personal bias.

Clark didn't guard 1 (2?) of the SC players at the 3 pt line in the final four game. She even waved them off as she played defense at the elbow around the free throw line. I thought that was a comical way to get in their heads and she was clearly relying on the stats in her favor about how little the player would make from there. Meanwhile it allowed her to pack the paint and help guard SC bags. I don't think race ever entered her mind, nor should it. It was her typical uber competitive game play.

Been kinda watching for Theo to post here since she follows women's bball so closely and I think is a fan of Clark. Curious on her take.

[billisonboard]

Apr 7, 2023 8:14:00 GMT -5 azucena said:

Pink - for what it's worth I did follow the women's tournament and I thought the media comments the next day about Reese were racist. I also think if it were men's sports, the reporting would have been different. I'm glad you spoke up here if only to corroborate my gut feel. I'll ashamedly admit that I had a tiny personal pause wondering if I was jumping to race too quickly. Clearly I still need to work on my personal bias.

Clark didn't guard 1 (2?) of the SC players at the 3 pt line in the final four game. She even waved them off as she played defense at the elbow around the free throw line. I thought that was a comical way to get in their heads and she was clearly relying on the stats in her favor about how little the player would make from there. Meanwhile it allowed her to pack the paint and help guard SC bags. I don't think race ever entered her mind, nor should it. It was her typical uber competitive game play.

Been kinda watching for Theo to post here since she follows women's bball so closely and I think is a fan of Clark. Curious on her take.

I wonder how much the decision to play off defense of 3 point line was Clark's and how much it was the coaching staff? Was that the "disrespect"? Do coaches need to take into account the feelings of the opposing players as they develop a strategy to win a game. "Okay team, the other team is hitting 60% from 3 point land but their center will feel disrespected if we don't double team her each time down the court." Besides, all the SC guards had to do was start hitting shots. On the court, respect for a player's game is given when earned. Off the court it should just be given to fellow competitors.

[billisonboard]

“Just going back on it, you don’t get that experience (to visit the White House) ever,” Reese said in an interview with ESPN on Friday.

“I know my team probably wants to go for sure, and my coaches are supportive of that, so I’m going to do what’s best for the team. And if they would like to go, we decide we’re going to go, then we’re going to go.”

link

Yes a rare thing but hopefully you will have a second opportunity next year as return champions.i will now be cheering for you.

[tallguy]

Take it from a former player.  Teams will leave opponents alone out past the three-point line ALL THE TIME.  The game in question was against South Carolina.  They happen to have good size inside, and one of those players was a Player of the Year candidate.  South Carolina was near the top team in the country in rebounding, blocked shots, and points-in-the-paint.  Conversely, they were among the worst teams in the country in 3-point shots attempted and made.  Beyond the percentage of three-pointers made, you don't generally have to guard someone out that far if they rarely even attempt to shoot from there.  You need to stop the team's scoring threats, and virtually all of South Carolina's are from inside.  Only one of their guards even attempted more than three shots per game from beyond the line.  Coaches know this.  The stats are readily available even if they don't scout the teams in person (which I would bet ALL teams do at that level.)  Players are told which opponents they need to watch out for and which they can leave alone.  They are told which direction to let their players go, and which they should take away.  Which players they need to chase all over the court, and which they can sag off from.  There are even players who you WANT to leave open and HOPE they will shoot from outside.  

I didn't get to watch the Iowa-South Carolina game.  I wanted to, but was busy.  But I can say with confidence that if the entire cause of the "disrespect" angle was that Iowa left one or two shooters alone and dared them to shoot, that it was Reese trying to motivate herself or her team by saying that.