Controlling library content

[happyhoix]

Louisiana candidate for govorner wants to introduce a law prohibiting libraries from letting minors take out sexually graphic books. 

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/louisiana-attorney-general-legislators-call-for-restricting-minors-access-to-library-materials/ar-AA17mEtp?ocid=Peregrine&cvid=65937057bc1d4c40a92d084075c8783e

Here is what I don’t understand about the whole ‘libraries can’t give these LBGTQ books out to our kids because that’s grooming and sexualizing them’ idea. Sure, you can keep kids from taking books out of the library that talk about a kid who is discovering he has feelings for other boys - but how does that prevent that kid from learning about being gay, when TV shows, movies, newsstands, book stores and even the schools themselves have gay people and gay stories? 

It’s not like if the libraries don’t have gay books, the youth of today will never hear the word ‘gay.’ What do they imagine they are gaining by coming down hard on libraries? 

Or is it just a shallow grab for conservative media attention during a campaign? 

[djAdvocate]

no.  it is the opening salvo in a holy war against secular society.

[Opti]

Why can't whiner lazy parents just show up with their kids so they know what they are checking out? Too many children are sexually assaulted somewhere between birth and adulthood. Libraries should not be policing content just because parents won't. I thought these folks pretended they did not want a nanny state?

[djAdvocate]

Feb 11, 2023 13:58:45 GMT -5 Opti said:

Why can't whiner lazy parents just show up with their kids so they know what they are checking out? Too many children are sexually assaulted somewhere between birth and adulthood. Libraries should not be policing content just because parents won't. I thought these folks pretended they did not want a nanny state?

agree with this.  kids should be engaged about content.  the state should not act as a parent.

[Tiny]

Or is it just a shallow grab for conservative media attention during a campaign?

     It's a great way for politicians to not have to talk about or commit to dealing with actual problems - like how the public schools in Louisiana are so crappy.   I guess if they can't or won't do anything to improve your schools - the best to make everyone effected by the crappiness is highlight a made up "positive" that does absolutely nothing other than get votes.     

Doesn't matter that kids get exposed to LGBTQ people in their everyday life (as has been pointed out).  Odds are someone in their family or social circle or community is LBGTQ. 

 
I came across this Trea Crowder  comedy routine that I think sums it up: 
(if we don't try to change how people talk about LGBTQ people or gender or sexuality or a whole host of other topics - we just wind up passing down the crappy views or opinions  our parents or grandparents hold/held.  And nothing changes.    



 

[Opti]

I think its dangerous to assume this is mostly an older people problem. Conservatives like DeSantis age 44 are currently fighting the fight against those who don't fall into the two gender boxes. My grandparents are dead as is my mom, but she actively fought for gays to be able to have communion and acceptance at her church years ago.

The most conservative person I know now is a coworker from the south who is under 30. His church is conservative, and he thought a musician should no longer be called Christian simply because he publicly wanted to talk to lil naz about his music. He deals with the youth in his congregation and other related groups on a weekly basis.

Kids who don't fall into neat little boxes often kill themselves not because of lack of acceptance from adults in their life but from harassment and abuse from their peers. Bullying is more extreme now than when I grew up because of technology and social media. Bad ideologies need to be dealt with instead of hoping the problem is just going to age away. 

[teen persuasion]

Feb 11, 2023 13:58:45 GMT -5 Opti said:

Why can't whiner lazy parents just show up with their kids so they know what they are checking out? Too many children are sexually assaulted somewhere between birth and adulthood. Libraries should not be policing content just because parents won't. I thought these folks pretended they did not want a nanny state?

There are a lot of parents who NEVER bring their kids to the library, period.  My library is in a village, but the two towns we serve are primarily rural - lots of square mileage in our service area.  The kids that live in the village are lucky and can get to the library on their own by walking or biking.  Other kids are just completely dependent on adults to drive them.

We've collaborated with the Elementary School to have a library field trip.  It has been the third grades coming (because those teachers cared enough to do the leg work).  We provide a set of library card applications to the teachers in advance, so we can get parent signatures on them, and have the cards ready for the kids in advance.  It is amazing how few kids have EVER been to the library before that visit at age 9 or so, let alone have their own library card or visit regularly.

Then there's the parents who limit how many books their child can borrow, because they are afraid of fines.  First, return books on time, or renew them, and you have no problems - if you have big fines it is because you NEVER returned items and they were assumed lost (after 3 reminders over months) and you are charged the cost of the item to replace it.  Second, we got rid of overdue fines on our children's books - COMPLETELY. Let the kids read - anything.

We've dropped Story Time, pre-Covid, because no one came.  There used to be enough demand that we held 2 story times to split up the big group.  We've recently had a few new mothers ask about Story Time, so we are running a survey to gauge interest and preferred times - crickets, even the mothers who called us! 

Libraries have to entice parents to bring their kids to the library thru programs (disguised as parties) and HOPE that they might pick up and checkout a book because they are already there and see it.  Most come in (late) for the free cookies and photo-op with Santa, and hustle the kids right back out the door, dragging the kids away from browsing books or movies. 

[happyhoix]

Feb 12, 2023 1:14:39 GMT -5 Opti said:

I think its dangerous to assume this is mostly an older people problem. Conservatives like DeSantis age 44 are currently fighting the fight against those who don't fall into the two gender boxes. My grandparents are dead as is my mom, but she actively fought for gays to be able to have communion and acceptance at her church years ago.

The most conservative person I know now is a coworker from the south who is under 30. His church is conservative, and he thought a musician should no longer be called Christian simply because he publicly wanted to talk to lil naz about his music. He deals with the youth in his congregation and other related groups on a weekly basis.

Kids who don't fall into neat little boxes often kill themselves not because of lack of acceptance from adults in their life but from harassment and abuse from their peers. Bullying is more extreme now than when I grew up because of technology and social media. Bad ideologies need to be dealt with instead of hoping the problem is just going to age away. 

Not surprised this is a Southern co-worker. I live in the South, and in the rural areas homophobia is still a big thing, and gay men are still assumed to be pedophiles. In fact the United Methodist church has been going through a chaotic period as the main TUMC group has decided to allow gay ministers and permit gay weddings in the church. The church has allowed every individual church to decide if they want to continue to remain part of the TUMC or if they want to opt out, to either join another subgroup of the Methodist church (a new branch called the Global Methodist church) or affiliate with a different church, or be a stand alone church.  www.christianitytoday.com/news/2023/january/umc-churches-leave-global-methodist-denomination-schism.html. The majority of th 1800 churches leaving are from Southern areas. 

This is deja vu all over again. Back around the Civil War, the southern Methodist churches broke with the northern churches over the question of slavery. Now, looking back on that, the southern churches were obviously not very Christian, clinging to the idea of people owning other people, and I think 20 or 30 years from now, the southern Methodist churches will once again seem foolish in hindsight for tolerating the divorced people, the people who have affairs, the people who cheat and steal to come sit in their sanctuaries and worship, but bar gay people. 

So that’s the South for you - at least the rural south. Always stuck about 30 years in the past, clinging to how things used to be. 

[jerseygirl]

Feb 12, 2023 11:43:18 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Feb 11, 2023 13:58:45 GMT -5 Opti said:

Why can't whiner lazy parents just show up with their kids so they know what they are checking out? Too many children are sexually assaulted somewhere between birth and adulthood. Libraries should not be policing content just because parents won't. I thought these folks pretended they did not want a nanny state?

There are a lot of parents who NEVER bring their kids to the library, period.  My library is in a village, but the two towns we serve are primarily rural - lots of square mileage in our service area.  The kids that live in the village are lucky and can get to the library on their own by walking or biking.  Other kids are just completely dependent on adults to drive them.

We've collaborated with the Elementary School to have a library field trip.  It has been the third grades coming (because those teachers cared enough to do the leg work).  We provide a set of library card applications to the teachers in advance, so we can get parent signatures on them, and have the cards ready for the kids in advance.  It is amazing how few kids have EVER been to the library before that visit at age 9 or so, let alone have their own library card or visit regularly.

Then there's the parents who limit how many books their child can borrow, because they are afraid of fines.  First, return books on time, or renew them, and you have no problems - if you have big fines it is because you NEVER returned items and they were assumed lost (after 3 reminders over months) and you are charged the cost of the item to replace it.  Second, we got rid of overdue fines on our children's books - COMPLETELY. Let the kids read - anything.

We've dropped Story Time, pre-Covid, because no one came.  There used to be enough demand that we held 2 story times to split up the big group.  We've recently had a few new mothers ask about Story Time, so we are running a survey to gauge interest and preferred times - crickets, even the mothers who called us! 

Libraries have to entice parents to bring their kids to the library thru programs (disguised as parties) and HOPE that they might pick up and checkout a book because they are already there and see it.  Most come in (late) for the free cookies and photo-op with Santa, and hustle the kids right back out the door, dragging the kids away from browsing books or movies. 

Don’t the schools also have libraries? My mom was a school librarian for many years. Going to different schools every day. Volunteers helped when she wasn’t there . I was a volunteer for my kids school for a while

[busymom]

Feb 11, 2023 13:58:45 GMT -5 Opti said:

Why can't whiner lazy parents just show up with their kids so they know what they are checking out? Too many children are sexually assaulted somewhere between birth and adulthood. Libraries should not be policing content just because parents won't. I thought these folks pretended they did not want a nanny state?

     

[teen persuasion]

Feb 12, 2023 15:50:41 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Feb 12, 2023 11:43:18 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

There are a lot of parents who NEVER bring their kids to the library, period.  My library is in a village, but the two towns we serve are primarily rural - lots of square mileage in our service area.  The kids that live in the village are lucky and can get to the library on their own by walking or biking.  Other kids are just completely dependent on adults to drive them.

We've collaborated with the Elementary School to have a library field trip.  It has been the third grades coming (because those teachers cared enough to do the leg work).  We provide a set of library card applications to the teachers in advance, so we can get parent signatures on them, and have the cards ready for the kids in advance.  It is amazing how few kids have EVER been to the library before that visit at age 9 or so, let alone have their own library card or visit regularly.

Then there's the parents who limit how many books their child can borrow, because they are afraid of fines.  First, return books on time, or renew them, and you have no problems - if you have big fines it is because you NEVER returned items and they were assumed lost (after 3 reminders over months) and you are charged the cost of the item to replace it.  Second, we got rid of overdue fines on our children's books - COMPLETELY. Let the kids read - anything.

We've dropped Story Time, pre-Covid, because no one came.  There used to be enough demand that we held 2 story times to split up the big group.  We've recently had a few new mothers ask about Story Time, so we are running a survey to gauge interest and preferred times - crickets, even the mothers who called us! 

Libraries have to entice parents to bring their kids to the library thru programs (disguised as parties) and HOPE that they might pick up and checkout a book because they are already there and see it.  Most come in (late) for the free cookies and photo-op with Santa, and hustle the kids right back out the door, dragging the kids away from browsing books or movies. 

Don’t the schools also have libraries? My mom was a school librarian for many years. Going to different schools every day. Volunteers helped when she wasn’t there . I was a volunteer for my kids school for a while

Yes, the schools each have a library, but students only get to the school library on their Specials rotation day - once per 6 days, IIRC.  When/if there's a library staffer available at the scheduled time. Last year the district was playing musical librarians due to short staffing.  ES had one librarian, MS & HS shared a librarian.  Then they finally hired a new librarian for the MS - yay.  A few months later, the newbie jumped ship for a position closer to her home.  A newly graduated librarian we've been mentoring got picked up as long term sub to fill the gap - double yay.  Then librarian at HS began teaching ENG, to replace the teacher who'd been AWOL for 2 quarters and counting (6 weeks of maternity leave planned, and never returned - my DS5 had a string of long term subs since September).  Eventually we heard the long term librarian sub turned into a permanent position - another yay.  And we just recently learned that he's no longer on staff - no idea what happened. Not sure who or if anyone is covering the MS library RN.

And of course, no access to the school libraries during summer break, or evenings or weekends during the school year.

We've been helping the school librarians locate class sets of books for teachers in the schools, by doing group inter-library loans from our system.  Teachers decide at short notice to read a certain book, and the school doesn't have class sets of that title, or time to order and purchase them.  If the title is available in e-book form on Hoopla, the students could all get copies that way, IF they each have their own library card!

[Tennesseer]

Feb 12, 2023 22:09:23 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Feb 12, 2023 15:50:41 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Don’t the schools also have libraries? My mom was a school librarian for many years. Going to different schools every day. Volunteers helped when she wasn’t there . I was a volunteer for my kids school for a while

Yes, the schools each have a library, but students only get to the school library on their Specials rotation day - once per 6 days, IIRC.  When/if there's a library staffer available at the scheduled time. Last year the district was playing musical librarians due to short staffing.  ES had one librarian, MS & HS shared a librarian.  Then they finally hired a new librarian for the MS - yay.  A few months later, the newbie jumped ship for a position closer to her home.  A newly graduated librarian we've been mentoring got picked up as long term sub to fill the gap - double yay.  Then librarian at HS began teaching ENG, to replace the teacher who'd been AWOL for 2 quarters and counting (6 weeks of maternity leave planned, and never returned - my DS5 had a string of long term subs since September).  Eventually we heard the long term librarian sub turned into a permanent position - another yay.  And we just recently learned that he's no longer on staff - no idea what happened. Not sure who or if anyone is covering the MS library RN.

And of course, no access to the school libraries during summer break, or evenings or weekends during the school year.

We've been helping the school librarians locate class sets of books for teachers in the schools, by doing group inter-library loans from our system.  Teachers decide at short notice to read a certain book, and the school doesn't have class sets of that title, or time to order and purchase them.  If the title is available in e-book form on Hoopla, the students could all get copies that way, IF they each have their own library card!

Not sure where the school district was but the district was requiring all teachers with their own individual library in their classroom to dismantle them. Students can no longer borrow books from their teachers.

[teen persuasion]

Feb 12, 2023 23:59:44 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Feb 12, 2023 22:09:23 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Yes, the schools each have a library, but students only get to the school library on their Specials rotation day - once per 6 days, IIRC.  When/if there's a library staffer available at the scheduled time. Last year the district was playing musical librarians due to short staffing.  ES had one librarian, MS & HS shared a librarian.  Then they finally hired a new librarian for the MS - yay.  A few months later, the newbie jumped ship for a position closer to her home.  A newly graduated librarian we've been mentoring got picked up as long term sub to fill the gap - double yay.  Then librarian at HS began teaching ENG, to replace the teacher who'd been AWOL for 2 quarters and counting (6 weeks of maternity leave planned, and never returned - my DS5 had a string of long term subs since September).  Eventually we heard the long term librarian sub turned into a permanent position - another yay.  And we just recently learned that he's no longer on staff - no idea what happened. Not sure who or if anyone is covering the MS library RN.

And of course, no access to the school libraries during summer break, or evenings or weekends during the school year.

We've been helping the school librarians locate class sets of books for teachers in the schools, by doing group inter-library loans from our system.  Teachers decide at short notice to read a certain book, and the school doesn't have class sets of that title, or time to order and purchase them.  If the title is available in e-book form on Hoopla, the students could all get copies that way, IF they each have their own library card!

Not sure where the school district was but the district was requiring all teachers with their own individual library in their classroom to dismantle them. Students can no longer borrow books from their teachers.

Yes, I've been seeing the outrage on library Twitter.  Pretty sure it's in Florida. EVERY book has to be vetted before it's approved to be in the school. Which means someone has to read each book - gonna take time...

Taking this to its logical conclusion - not sure if it's the same school district, but another one says students can't even bring their own books from home.  Guess nobody can read. 

Maybe it's reverse psychology - books as contraband gets rebellious kids to secretly read.  Oh, wait, just the threat of charging library staff with felonies (or closing libraries that don't comply) is having a chilling effect.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Feb 12, 2023 23:59:44 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Feb 12, 2023 22:09:23 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Yes, the schools each have a library, but students only get to the school library on their Specials rotation day - once per 6 days, IIRC.  When/if there's a library staffer available at the scheduled time. Last year the district was playing musical librarians due to short staffing.  ES had one librarian, MS & HS shared a librarian.  Then they finally hired a new librarian for the MS - yay.  A few months later, the newbie jumped ship for a position closer to her home.  A newly graduated librarian we've been mentoring got picked up as long term sub to fill the gap - double yay.  Then librarian at HS began teaching ENG, to replace the teacher who'd been AWOL for 2 quarters and counting (6 weeks of maternity leave planned, and never returned - my DS5 had a string of long term subs since September).  Eventually we heard the long term librarian sub turned into a permanent position - another yay.  And we just recently learned that he's no longer on staff - no idea what happened. Not sure who or if anyone is covering the MS library RN.

And of course, no access to the school libraries during summer break, or evenings or weekends during the school year.

We've been helping the school librarians locate class sets of books for teachers in the schools, by doing group inter-library loans from our system.  Teachers decide at short notice to read a certain book, and the school doesn't have class sets of that title, or time to order and purchase them.  If the title is available in e-book form on Hoopla, the students could all get copies that way, IF they each have their own library card!

Not sure where the school district was but the district was requiring all teachers with their own individual library in their classroom to dismantle them. Students can no longer borrow books from their teachers.

I would run a library out of the trunk of my car several blocks down from the school.

I'm sorry but if you are so threatened by a book being in the library where your kid may get a whiff of it's content then maybe your value system isn't as strong as you think it is.

And if you think your kid isn't getting the material somewhere else nowadays I got a bridge in London to sell you.    

Book banning pisses me off.  You can disagree with a book, you can not want to read it or let your kid read it but you have NO RIGHT to ban the book and prevent others from doing so.  

Libraries are public spaces that are paid for by public tax dollars.  They should be off limits from this type of crap.

[Tennesseer]

Feb 13, 2023 9:52:58 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Feb 12, 2023 23:59:44 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Not sure where the school district was but the district was requiring all teachers with their own individual library in their classroom to dismantle them. Students can no longer borrow books from their teachers.

Yes, I've been seeing the outrage on library Twitter.  Pretty sure it's in Florida. EVERY book has to be vetted before it's approved to be in the school. Which means someone has to read each book - gonna take time...

Taking this to its logical conclusion - not sure if it's the same school district, but another one says students can't even bring their own books from home.  Guess nobody can read. 

Maybe it's reverse psychology - books as contraband gets rebellious kids to secretly read.  Oh, wait, just the threat of charging library staff with felonies (or closing libraries that don't comply) is having a chilling effect.

Florida would be my first and millionth guess too.

[billisonboard]

Feb 13, 2023 10:07:27 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Feb 12, 2023 23:59:44 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Not sure where the school district was but the district was requiring all teachers with their own individual library in their classroom to dismantle them. Students can no longer borrow books from their teachers.

I would run a library out of the trunk of my car several blocks down from the school.

I'm sorry but if you are so threatened by a book being in the library where your kid may get a whiff of it's content then maybe your value system isn't as strong as you think it is.

And if you think your kid isn't getting the material somewhere else nowadays I got a bridge in London to sell you.

Book banning pisses me off. You can disagree with a book, you can not want to read it or let your kid read it but you have NO RIGHT to ban the book and prevent others from doing so.

Libraries are public spaces that are paid for by public tax dollars. They should be off limits from this type of crap.

So our elected officials shouldn't make the call on taxpayer funded activities?

[bean29]

Feb 12, 2023 11:43:18 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Feb 11, 2023 13:58:45 GMT -5 Opti said:

Why can't whiner lazy parents just show up with their kids so they know what they are checking out? Too many children are sexually assaulted somewhere between birth and adulthood. Libraries should not be policing content just because parents won't. I thought these folks pretended they did not want a nanny state?

There are a lot of parents who NEVER bring their kids to the library, period.  My library is in a village, but the two towns we serve are primarily rural - lots of square mileage in our service area.  The kids that live in the village are lucky and can get to the library on their own by walking or biking.  Other kids are just completely dependent on adults to drive them.

We've collaborated with the Elementary School to have a library field trip.  It has been the third grades coming (because those teachers cared enough to do the leg work).  We provide a set of library card applications to the teachers in advance, so we can get parent signatures on them, and have the cards ready for the kids in advance.  It is amazing how few kids have EVER been to the library before that visit at age 9 or so, let alone have their own library card or visit regularly.

Then there's the parents who limit how many books their child can borrow, because they are afraid of fines.  First, return books on time, or renew them, and you have no problems - if you have big fines it is because you NEVER returned items and they were assumed lost (after 3 reminders over months) and you are charged the cost of the item to replace it.  Second, we got rid of overdue fines on our children's books - COMPLETELY. Let the kids read - anything.

We've dropped Story Time, pre-Covid, because no one came.  There used to be enough demand that we held 2 story times to split up the big group.  We've recently had a few new mothers ask about Story Time, so we are running a survey to gauge interest and preferred times - crickets, even the mothers who called us! 

Libraries have to entice parents to bring their kids to the library thru programs (disguised as parties) and HOPE that they might pick up and checkout a book because they are already there and see it.  Most come in (late) for the free cookies and photo-op with Santa, and hustle the kids right back out the door, dragging the kids away from browsing books or movies. 

Opti : Kids who don't fall into neat little boxes often kill themselves not because of lack of acceptance from adults in their life but from harassment and abuse from their peers. Bullying is more extreme now than when I grew up because of technology and social media. Bad ideologies need to be dealt with instead of hoping the problem is just going to age away.

Teen Persuasion:  My DD learned to sign her name at 4 years old because the librarian told her she had to be able to sign her name to get her own library card.  I always tried to get the books back to the library on time, but looked on fines as a small price to pay to have such a wide selection of books available for my kids to borrow.  I would have cost way more to try to purchase all the books my kids read over the years.  A fine here and there was ok in my opinion.  It is sad that your library no longer has story time.  DD is 25 and DS is 29.  When they were kids there were large groups of kids that participated in Story time and Summer Reading Programs.  And I would say that nearly every teacher had their own bookshelves there were at age-appropriate reading levels for their students.  These parents are control freaks and are going to ruin education for all our children.  I hope parents wake up to how wrong this is before the next election cycle.

ETA:  Opt4CoolCars, I agree about kids that don't fit into neat boxes killing themselves.  I was very afraid of that when my kids were adolescents.  I purposefully did not hide my cousin's lesbian relationship from my 13 and 17 year old kids when we visited b/c I wanted them to understand that we would accept them no matter what.  My husband has I think 3 cousins and other relatives that are homosexuals.  When DD called me and asked how our family would react to a cousin being gay, I could honestly reply that he would mostly be accepted by everyone.  I don't know of anyone in the family that has expressed or shown any disapproval.  I think his cousins are all accepting and supportive too.  I think republicans are worried about their Pro-Birth stance not going over well with voters, and the homophobia not being shared by all their voters (and the fact that they have no platform other than those two issues and No-Taxes).

[busymom]

We have a "little library" in our community.  You know, those little wooden boxes where people can borrow a book or put in one of their own to share.  Who's gonna play "library police" with those?  They're all over in our state.  

[Tennesseer]

Feb 13, 2023 15:00:15 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 13, 2023 10:07:27 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I would run a library out of the trunk of my car several blocks down from the school.

I'm sorry but if you are so threatened by a book being in the library where your kid may get a whiff of it's content then maybe your value system isn't as strong as you think it is.

And if you think your kid isn't getting the material somewhere else nowadays I got a bridge in London to sell you.

Book banning pisses me off. You can disagree with a book, you can not want to read it or let your kid read it but you have NO RIGHT to ban the book and prevent others from doing so.

Libraries are public spaces that are paid for by public tax dollars. They should be off limits from this type of crap.

So our elected officials shouldn't make the call on taxpayer funded activities?

Should a parent not wanting a certain book in the school library override a parent's wish to have that same book in their school library? Curious.

And let's take out of the equation the parent wanting the book to remain in the school library can buy the book instead for their child. Also if their local public library will not/cannot stock a particular book in their library.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Feb 13, 2023 15:00:15 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 13, 2023 10:07:27 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I would run a library out of the trunk of my car several blocks down from the school.

I'm sorry but if you are so threatened by a book being in the library where your kid may get a whiff of it's content then maybe your value system isn't as strong as you think it is.

And if you think your kid isn't getting the material somewhere else nowadays I got a bridge in London to sell you.

Book banning pisses me off. You can disagree with a book, you can not want to read it or let your kid read it but you have NO RIGHT to ban the book and prevent others from doing so.

Libraries are public spaces that are paid for by public tax dollars. They should be off limits from this type of crap.

So our elected officials shouldn't make the call on taxpayer funded activities?

So my elected officials should be able to decide a book is icky based on their religion even though there is no state sanctioned religion?   The should be able to make the call that I cannot check out the book even though I am an atheist?  I shouldn't have the right be able to check out a book that isn't against my religion?

If my governor is uncomfortable talking about race she should get to decide that nobody is allowed to read about the topic?  She should be allowed to decide that it is a topic that doesn't need to be addressed or read by anyone because of her feelings on the matter?

Because one parent cannot handle the thought that at some point their kid might become aware the world does operate based on their narrow world view they should be allowed to reject any material they don't like?  They have the right to decide none of the children are allowed to read the book or learn the material?  Not only in school which is also publicly funded but taking it a step further and not even allowing my kid to check the damn book out at the library?  

And like Tenn let's take out of the equation "well just go buy it if you want to read it" because there are a lot of people to this day who cannot afford books and there are people out there who won't provide them.  Libraries are some people's only access to books.  It should be a free forum to access whatever someone wants to read.   You don't like it don't read it.  You don't have the right to tell other people they aren't allowed to.   

[billisonboard]

Feb 13, 2023 16:43:45 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Feb 13, 2023 15:00:15 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

So our elected officials shouldn't make the call on taxpayer funded activities?

Should a parent not wanting a certain book in the school library override a parent's wish to have that same book in their school library? Curious.

And let's take out of the equation the parent wanting the book to remain in the school library can buy the book instead for their child. Also if their local public library will not/cannot stock a particular book in their library.

Being a parent is an irrelevant factor to me. It is a public school funded by the public. An elected school board should set the process for what books to have in school libraries.

[Tennesseer]

Feb 13, 2023 17:00:15 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 13, 2023 16:43:45 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Should a parent not wanting a certain book in the school library override a parent's wish to have that same book in their school library? Curious.

And let's take out of the equation the parent wanting the book to remain in the school library can buy the book instead for their child. Also if their local public library will not/cannot stock a particular book in their library.

Being a parent is an irrelevant factor to me. It is a public school funded by the public. An elected school board should set the process for what books to have in school libraries.

But many books are being banned from public schools based solely on the complaint of a parent(s). Many school board members go along with the complaining parents out of fear of being voted out of office.

It's all very political.

[djAdvocate]

Libraries are kind of in a unique category, owing to the first Amendment.

it is not the same argument one would make about, say, a firehouse.

[pulmonarymd]

If a parent objects to a book about evolution, a settled scientific concept, the school board should remove it? Vaccine science? The fact that the earth is round? Parents should not be the deciding factor. School boards, especially in areas with poor education, should not be banning books because of political reasons. Just a recipe for their falling further behind. But that may be the point. Keep them stupid because they can then be too dumb to question republican orthodoxy. If you educate them, they may realize they live in shithole places and move

[billisonboard]

Feb 13, 2023 17:33:33 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Feb 13, 2023 17:00:15 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Being a parent is an irrelevant factor to me. It is a public school funded by the public. An elected school board should set the process for what books to have in school libraries.

But many books are being banned from public schools based solely on the complaint of a parent(s). Many school board members go along with the complaining parents out of fear of being voted out of office.

It's all very political.

Yes, it is political. The solution is school board members need to fear being voted out of office if they vote to ban books.

[teen persuasion]

Ironically, I just learned today why C was no longer the MS librarian: during the Scholastic Book Sale (major fundraiser for school libraries, and beloved by kids) he was the person who happened to sell an "LGBTQ" book to a student whose parent must have objected to the book.

It's not like C personally selected the books available to sell - that's on Scholastic. They bring big boxes/crates that open up to display the books inside them, all published by Scholastic specifically for these school book drives.

The reason came out because my director was asked for a reference for C by our central headquarters - he's up for a part-time library clerk position there. They acknowledge he's overqualified for the position...

[teen persuasion]

Feb 13, 2023 16:43:45 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Feb 13, 2023 15:00:15 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

So our elected officials shouldn't make the call on taxpayer funded activities?

Should a parent not wanting a certain book in the school library override a parent's wish to have that same book in their school library? Curious.

And let's take out of the equation the parent wanting the book to remain in the school library can buy the book instead for their child. Also if their local public library will not/cannot stock a particular book in their library.

A parent has the right to challenge a book in the library.  There should be an official procedure for evaluating the challenged item.  A parent can request their child not be allowed to check out a specific book, but no - I don't believe a parent should be able to block all children's (or all peoples') access to books in the library thru their removal.

That said, we weed books all the time - mostly to make room for new books.  Poor condition - easy decision (unless it's popular, then we replace it).  Outdated information (like medical or tax books) -also easy.  Hasn't circed in years, it's not worth keeping on the shelf. Children's books that aren't quite PC anymore - those get tricky, especially if they were "classics" in past decades (certain Dr Seuss, The Five Chinese Brothers, Little Black Sambo, etc).  Some people might wish to explore those books, to see what makes them objectionable to our modern eyes.  Can't do that if they aren't available.

A library can't stock ALL books, so we try to cover the genres and topics our patrons typically want.  We have a larger than average Inspirational section, because it's popular with a number of our patrons.  No separate SF section - no real interest here (but if a few developed an interest, they aren't out of luck, they can interloan from other libraries that DO have SF).  NF, we have books on guns, religion, Conservative politics, sports, cryptids - I'm not interested in any of those topics.  But we also have books on knitting, science, cooking, finance, local history - those are books I am interested in reading.  Just because books on a topic are in the library doesn't mean I have to pick it up, look at it, read it - I can just ignore it and realize it is there for somebody else who IS interested in it.

[thyme4change]

Feb 11, 2023 10:59:09 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Louisiana candidate for govorner wants to introduce a law prohibiting libraries from letting minors take out sexually graphic books. 

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/louisiana-attorney-general-legislators-call-for-restricting-minors-access-to-library-materials/ar-AA17mEtp?ocid=Peregrine&cvid=65937057bc1d4c40a92d084075c8783e

Here is what I don’t understand about the whole ‘libraries can’t give these LBGTQ books out to our kids because that’s grooming and sexualizing them’ idea. Sure, you can keep kids from taking books out of the library that talk about a kid who is discovering he has feelings for other boys - but how does that prevent that kid from learning about being gay, when TV shows, movies, newsstands, book stores and even the schools themselves have gay people and gay stories?

;

You forgot the internet. Kids can find any information on the internet, including the books that are being banned. Conservatives are yelling at the storm. They won’t stop the storm. But, we are part of the storm - we have to keep fighting against these whackos.

[Tennesseer]

Hear hear!

[Tennesseer]

From The Onion.

Pros And Cons Of Banning Books

Bans on books in schools are on the rise, with states like Texas, Florida, and Pennsylvania targeting material some parents and educators believe is inappropriate for students, while critics of these policies point to consequences of such measures. The Onion looks at the pros and cons of banning books.

PRO
*Parents should have the right to decide whether their child is smart or not.

*Prevents exposing children to sexual or violent topics outside of church.

*Lets parents control how they discuss challenging topics like whether gay people exist.

*Some books may contain shockingly humanizing depictions of Black people.

*If your child never learns about puberty, they can stay your baby forever.


CON

*Students forced to find other objects to fling at school shooter.

*Table leg now uneven.

*Harder to blame J.D. Salinger if your kid turns out to be a mass murderer.

*Lost great place to hide knife.

*Slippery slope to banning good things, like movies.

Pros And Cons Of Banning Books