I am now broke..

[WannabeWealthy]

This year has been a absolute NIGHTMARE for my portfolio and assets.  I am now back to where I was in 2019 just after finalizing my divorce!  I have lost over $400k in my stock portfolio (basically over 70%) and now know I can NOT even think about retiring at 55yrs old (I turn 53yrs old next week).  The biggest decline I had in my stock portfolio was Tesla and Nvidia.  Both of them lost over 70% of their value.

I can't even afford to borrow any money now and am just praying that I keep my job for the next few years while this crazy market goes back to buying stocks again (instead of panic selling them).  I have learned my lesson into holding on to a stock just because I hope it turns around after a massive selloff.  I'm going more conservative once my portfolio comes back even a little bit.  I'm also going to put stop losses in my stocks so that I never lose that kind of money again.  I don't care about the huge tax bill.  It's much better to pay $100k in taxes than to lose $400k in cash.

Anyone else in my boat?

[toomuchreality]

I'm sorry. That's a lot to go through in a year. I hope the coming year is better to you.

[chiver78]

Dec 30, 2022 17:05:34 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

This year has been a absolute NIGHTMARE for my portfolio and assets.  I am now back to where I was in 2019 just after finalizing my divorce!  I have lost over $400k in my stock portfolio (basically over 70%) and now know I can NOT even think about retiring at 55yrs old (I turn 53yrs old next week).  The biggest decline I had in my stock portfolio was Tesla and Nvidia.  Both of them lost over 70% of their value.

I can't even afford to borrow any money now and am just praying that I keep my job for the next few years while this crazy market goes back to buying stocks again (instead of panic selling them).  I have learned my lesson into holding on to a stock just because I hope it turns around after a massive selloff.  I'm going more conservative once my portfolio comes back even a little bit.  I'm also going to put stop losses in my stocks so that I never lose that kind of money again.  I don't care about the huge tax bill.  It's much better to pay $100k in taxes than to lose $400k in cash.

Anyone else in my boat?

curious how much you invested in your friend's scheme. is that included in your numbers? 

[WannabeWealthy]

Dec 30, 2022 17:17:45 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Dec 30, 2022 17:05:34 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

This year has been a absolute NIGHTMARE for my portfolio and assets.  I am now back to where I was in 2019 just after finalizing my divorce!  I have lost over $400k in my stock portfolio (basically over 70%) and now know I can NOT even think about retiring at 55yrs old (I turn 53yrs old next week).  The biggest decline I had in my stock portfolio was Tesla and Nvidia.  Both of them lost over 70% of their value.

I can't even afford to borrow any money now and am just praying that I keep my job for the next few years while this crazy market goes back to buying stocks again (instead of panic selling them).  I have learned my lesson into holding on to a stock just because I hope it turns around after a massive selloff.  I'm going more conservative once my portfolio comes back even a little bit.  I'm also going to put stop losses in my stocks so that I never lose that kind of money again.  I don't care about the huge tax bill.  It's much better to pay $100k in taxes than to lose $400k in cash.

Anyone else in my boat?

curious how much you invested in your friend's scheme. is that included in your numbers?

My friend?  I don't understand.

[swamp]

Dec 30, 2022 17:05:34 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

This year has been a absolute NIGHTMARE for my portfolio and assets.  I am now back to where I was in 2019 just after finalizing my divorce!  I have lost over $400k in my stock portfolio (basically over 70%) and now know I can NOT even think about retiring at 55yrs old (I turn 53yrs old next week).  The biggest decline I had in my stock portfolio was Tesla and Nvidia.  Both of them lost over 70% of their value.

I can't even afford to borrow any money now and am just praying that I keep my job for the next few years while this crazy market goes back to buying stocks again (instead of panic selling them).  I have learned my lesson into holding on to a stock just because I hope it turns around after a massive selloff.  I'm going more conservative once my portfolio comes back even a little bit.  I'm also going to put stop losses in my stocks so that I never lose that kind of money again.  I don't care about the huge tax bill.  It's much better to pay $100k in taxes than to lose $400k in cash.

Anyone else in my boat?

Yes.  

meh.  Markets go up.  Markets go down. 

[chiver78]

Dec 30, 2022 17:29:00 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

Dec 30, 2022 17:17:45 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

curious how much you invested in your friend's scheme. is that included in your numbers?

My friend?  I don't understand.

Aug 17, 2022 10:27:09 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

All,

So my friend decided to quit his job and go full time into the car business using Uber/Lyft.  To accomplish this, he bought (a year ago) a Yukon Denali costing over $90k. His note was $1,100/month.  OK.  So he now can use the black service.

Recently, he decided to change his own oil on the vehicle to save money and forgot to put fresh oil in the car.  He started the engine and it ceased up on him.  He took it to the dealer and got lucky.  They decided to replace the engine on their dime.  While waiting on this fix, he decided yesterday to buy another car costing him $50k with the intention of being able to rent it out occasionally.  So he took out another loan on his business for $50k @ 6.59% interest for 7yrs to buy another vehicle with 60k miles on it.  He even put the taxes/title/registration in the loan.  *sigh* He's now paying $2,500/month for the two vehicles combined.  He has very little money in his 401k (~100k) and no cash at all.  He swears he will become profitable soon and I've argued with him that he has went overboard with the borrowing and that he has a problem with borrowing.  He got 2 credit cards specifically for his business account so he can start using those for gas and expenses.

In all, I think my friend is headed for disaster.  He is way too optimistic about his car business and ignores rationale thinking.  I'm going to sit back and see how this all unfolds.

not really sure what else to say? 

[Artemis Windsong]

The 8-17 post didn't say he put money into his friend's Uber/Lyft business.

That said, you don't lose it until you sell.

In the 08/09 meltdown, we were brushing up our resumes. We were invested in solid companies with a broker that supplied us with dividends at the same level as they had before the meltdown. This account pays for our annual house expenses. When we went of SS finances eased somewhat.

Long story short is hire a good investment company that manages various funds.

Also, look at I bonds from treasury direct for a relatively safe investment.

[WannabeWealthy]

Dec 30, 2022 17:32:13 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Dec 30, 2022 17:29:00 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

My friend?  I don't understand.

Aug 17, 2022 10:27:09 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

All,

So my friend decided to quit his job and go full time into the car business using Uber/Lyft.  To accomplish this, he bought (a year ago) a Yukon Denali costing over $90k. His note was $1,100/month.  OK.  So he now can use the black service.

Recently, he decided to change his own oil on the vehicle to save money and forgot to put fresh oil in the car.  He started the engine and it ceased up on him.  He took it to the dealer and got lucky.  They decided to replace the engine on their dime.  While waiting on this fix, he decided yesterday to buy another car costing him $50k with the intention of being able to rent it out occasionally.  So he took out another loan on his business for $50k @ 6.59% interest for 7yrs to buy another vehicle with 60k miles on it.  He even put the taxes/title/registration in the loan.  *sigh* He's now paying $2,500/month for the two vehicles combined.  He has very little money in his 401k (~100k) and no cash at all.  He swears he will become profitable soon and I've argued with him that he has went overboard with the borrowing and that he has a problem with borrowing.  He got 2 credit cards specifically for his business account so he can start using those for gas and expenses.

In all, I think my friend is headed for disaster.  He is way too optimistic about his car business and ignores rationale thinking.  I'm going to sit back and see how this all unfolds.

not really sure what else to say? 

0%.  He's still working and doesn't rely on any investments.

[WannabeWealthy]

Dec 30, 2022 17:50:00 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

The 8-17 post didn't say he put money into his friend's Uber/Lyft business.

That said, you don't lose it until you sell.

In the 08/09 meltdown, we were brushing up our resumes. We were invested in solid companies with a broker that supplied us with dividends at the same level as they had before the meltdown. This account pays for our annual house expenses. When we went of SS finances eased somewhat.

Long story short is hire a good investment company that manages various funds.

Also, look at I bonds from treasury direct for a relatively safe investment.

I've lost so much money now, to sell it at such a low value and then buy treasuries would ensure my demise.  I must wait to recover what I have invested.  I don't see any other way around that.  To sell and buy something else would be the last thing I want to do.  If Tesla and Nvidia can't go back to the valuations before 2022's disaster, I'm screwed.  IOW, it's better for me to wait for the stocks to bounce back to the $400k, then sell and buy something else more conservative and less risky.

[susana1954]

Dec 30, 2022 18:02:40 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

Dec 30, 2022 17:50:00 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

The 8-17 post didn't say he put money into his friend's Uber/Lyft business.

That said, you don't lose it until you sell.

In the 08/09 meltdown, we were brushing up our resumes. We were invested in solid companies with a broker that supplied us with dividends at the same level as they had before the meltdown. This account pays for our annual house expenses. When we went of SS finances eased somewhat.

Long story short is hire a good investment company that manages various funds.

Also, look at I bonds from treasury direct for a relatively safe investment.

I've lost so much money now, to sell it at such a low value and then buy treasuries would ensure my demise.  I must wait to recover what I have invested.  I don't see any other way around that.  To sell and buy something else would be the last thing I want to do.  If Tesla and Nvidia can't go back to the valuations before 2022's disaster, I'm screwed.  IOW, it's better for me to wait for the stocks to bounce back to the $400k, then sell and buy something else more conservative and less risky.

Ok, then  you are screwed.

Let me tell you about two awesome stocks I once held.  The first was Yahoo, a darling in 2000.  It went down and never really came back up.  That's not strictly true.  I think fifteen years later it was fairly close to what I paid for it.  At least it wasn't AOL.

And then there was GE, which made just about everything and had contracts out the wazoo.  That was DH's recommendation.  Are they in bankruptcy yet?  They've sold off everything profitable.

Both are gone along with Costco, which I actually did well on.  I no longer buy individual stocks, and you shouldn't either.  There are thousands of investors who were screwed when "their" stock darling tanked and never recovered.  And while I still "buy and hold" as a general philosophy, I've lost interest in going down with the ship.  But you do you by all means.

[Artemis Windsong]

I thought you probably kept some cash back for emergencies or whatever.

One thing that might save you but it's actually too late this year is to sell some at a loss to offset what you would be paying in taxes. You would need an accountant to help determine what level from the sound of this post.

I only trade what is considered risky in my personal account. I had the dividends reinvested. I check the stock price daily but haven't checked how many stocks purchased on the reinvest.

Years ago I made some decent money on buying dividends. Then H. and my investment advisor talked me out of doing that.

I am thankful that my career dream was to be a stock broker did not work out. I know now I don't have the mental strength to manage other people's money. I also knew that when my parents wanted me to manage their stock account in the mid-70s. The way this went was here read this book on stock investing then take over our portfolio. I did not bite.

What I did do is buy certificates of deposit. And I continue. I haven't checked the percent of total net worth is CD/cash vs. other investment.

[busymom]

I buy CD's too.  My Mom was actually kicking my butt in her return rates compared to me when she was alive, and CD's were her investment of choice.  It's not that my mutual funds didn't make money, it's just when the market tanked in the past, so did my funds.  Now I have more money in CD's than anything else.  No, I don't make a lot, but I don't lose my a$$ either...  

[Deleted]

I hear you- I lost more than you did (but a smaller % of my investments)- but you are NOT broke. Your portfolio did not go to zero. I look at my records and I've had similar bad times in the past, the financial crisis being one. My assets went down but $375K over 14 months but that's during a period when I added $125K of new money!

Stop loss orders are a good idea. Are you listening to/reading opinions of any investing gurus so yo have an idea of general market sentiment? I like Jim Cramer although some consider him kind of bombastic and absolutely fatuous when he's interviewing CEOs. Still, I like his "macro" view of the market and I do additional research before buying anything he loves. The only investment I have that's up this year is Ulta Beauty and that's one he recommends. Actually, my Fidelity account where I buy individual stocks is doing better than my UBS account, which has a lot of mutual funds and ETFs and about 15% municipal bonds (which are also down, of course).

You may have to wait to retire. I hope you don't have a job that's beating your body up. I retired at 61, I'm almost 70, and life is good.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

I've lost a lot on tesla too, but am not negative on it vs purchase prices overall. I originally bought a bunch 3/4 years ago, so that purchase is still showing a lot of gains, but the tsla I added later on are at losses. I have a few more stocks that are underwater, along with some mutual funds/etfs, etc. Just checked - my original purchase was in september 2019.


2023 could get worse, both generally and for tesla in particular, so I'm not sure what to tell you, but your plan to keep tsla and nvda until they recover then sell seems odd. Either they are good investments to keep, or they are not. What made you decide to buy in the first place? How has that evaluation changed? Will they under, over or meeting the market over the next 1-2-3- years?

Holding on for your entry point might not work out if you bought at or near the top. While both appear to be solid companies, Tesla was certainly over-valued at the end of 2021. Now I wager it is under valued given previous beating of forecasts and growth of EPS, and I might try to pick up some more. But personally, unless YOY EPS continue to exceed expectations, I don't see tsla reaching it's high mark again for quite a few years. It was one of the most painful short squeezes there has been, and then the price just kept sprialling upwards as tesla went from vision on borrowed money to solid profitability.

Now as that hyper enthusiam deflates with the rest of the market, Elon musk is alienating the tesla core consumer - at least in the US market. How that will play out in the next few years is anyone's guess. But if inflation continues and recessionary pressures keep up - people are going to either downgrade or delay their purchase of a 50-100k vehicle. Especially if musk continues his right wing ranting on twitter. When margerie taylor green buys a tesla, I'll be convinced his ranting isn't going to hurt the company going forward. Until then my view is that he is alienating the consumer bases that would have a tesla purchase as an aspirational goal, and handing the customers off to chevrolet and ford and toyota.

And possibly delaying the conversion to EV as the standard if some are going to be picking up one last non all EV, and hindering his supposed stated goal to 'save the planet'.

So - holding on to tesla could be risky!

[WannabeWealthy]

Dec 30, 2022 19:46:22 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

I've lost a lot on tesla too, but am not negative on it vs purchase prices overall. I originally bought a bunch 3/4 years ago, so that purchase is still showing a lot of gains, but the tsla I added later on are at losses. I have a few more stocks that are underwater, along with some mutual funds/etfs, etc. Just checked - my original purchase was in september 2019.


2023 could get worse, both generally and for tesla in particular, so I'm not sure what to tell you, but your plan to keep tsla and nvda until they recover then sell seems odd. Either they are good investments to keep, or they are not. What made you decide to buy in the first place? How has that evaluation changed? Will they under, over or meeting the market over the next 1-2-3- years?

Holding on for your entry point might not work out if you bought at or near the top. While both appear to be solid companies, Tesla was certainly over-valued at the end of 2021. Now I wager it is under valued given previous beating of forecasts and growth of EPS, and I might try to pick up some more. But personally, unless YOY EPS continue to exceed expectations, I don't see tsla reaching it's high mark again for quite a few years. It was one of the most painful short squeezes there has been, and then the price just kept sprialling upwards as tesla went from vision on borrowed money to solid profitability.

Now as that hyper enthusiam deflates with the rest of the market, Elon musk is alienating the tesla core consumer - at least in the US market. How that will play out in the next few years is anyone's guess. But if inflation continues and recessionary pressures keep up - people are going to either downgrade or delay their purchase of a 50-100k vehicle. Especially if musk continues his right wing ranting on twitter. When margerie taylor green buys a tesla, I'll be convinced his ranting isn't going to hurt the company going forward. Until then my view is that he is alienating the consumer bases that would have a tesla purchase as an aspirational goal, and handing the customers off to chevrolet and ford and toyota.

And possibly delaying the conversion to EV as the standard if some are going to be picking up one last non all EV, and hindering his supposed stated goal to 'save the planet'.

So - holding on to tesla could be risky!

Thanks for the comments.  

Both of those companies are pretty darn good and own the marketshare of their products.  I bought low on each of them and absolutely believe they are way oversold right now.  I am going to have to bid my time and see what happens next year.  As someone said, they didn't go to $0 but it sure does feel like it.  

I simply can't go from $580k to $180k and just sell out and give up the potential gains I had.  I need at least some recovery back before I start a new position.

[Deleted]

Dec 30, 2022 20:00:37 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

I simply can't go from $580k to $180k and just sell out and give up the potential gains I had.

You're absolutely right about that. You do, however, need to evaluate your major holdings and figure out what their long-term potential is. Some likely have better prospects than others. If Musk could find someone to run Twitter (and keep his hands off) that might be a good development for Tesla. If you've lost faith in some stocks you could sell off part of them, too. Doesn't have to be 100%. Just keep in mind that if you have a net loss on your investments for tax purposes, you're only allowed to write off $3K/year till the losses are used up. Crappy, but that's the tax code.

What I learned from the financial crisis is to periodically go over my investments and weed out under-performers as I go. Another Jim Cramer piece of advice: every once in awhile take some off the table on your profitable stocks to lock in gains. I have a hard time doing that, though, because I hate paying more taxes.

[Artemis Windsong]

Thanks for saying how much the write off can be on taxes for a year. My H. does the taxes and we did have some carry forward losses on the tax returns. The tech bubble burst which body slammed us.

I do like CDs and I-bonds since I'm not good about keeping track of companies I'm invested in.

Downturns are buying opportunities. Good companies on sale!

Wannbewealthy - I think you will be alright since you have an income that generated that amount of disposable income to invest. 

[MN-Investor]

No, you are looking at it wrong!

Take a look at what your investments are worth today. It doesn't matter if they are going up or going down. What are they worth today if you sold them? Then ask yourself, if I had this amount of money to invest, where would I put it? Then sell what you have to so you can be invested the way that truly makes sense. Don't hold on to a stock hoping that it will go up in value. Fortunes are lost that way!

[minnesotapaintlady]

And this is why I can't do individual stocks except as play money.  I don't have the intestinal fortitude for that kind of loss.  

Here's to a better year in the market in 2023. I have a feeling it's going to stay messy for awhile though.

[tallguy]

Dec 30, 2022 20:00:37 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

Dec 30, 2022 19:46:22 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

I've lost a lot on tesla too, but am not negative on it vs purchase prices overall. I originally bought a bunch 3/4 years ago, so that purchase is still showing a lot of gains, but the tsla I added later on are at losses. I have a few more stocks that are underwater, along with some mutual funds/etfs, etc. Just checked - my original purchase was in september 2019.


2023 could get worse, both generally and for tesla in particular, so I'm not sure what to tell you, but your plan to keep tsla and nvda until they recover then sell seems odd. Either they are good investments to keep, or they are not. What made you decide to buy in the first place? How has that evaluation changed? Will they under, over or meeting the market over the next 1-2-3- years?

Holding on for your entry point might not work out if you bought at or near the top. While both appear to be solid companies, Tesla was certainly over-valued at the end of 2021. Now I wager it is under valued given previous beating of forecasts and growth of EPS, and I might try to pick up some more. But personally, unless YOY EPS continue to exceed expectations, I don't see tsla reaching it's high mark again for quite a few years. It was one of the most painful short squeezes there has been, and then the price just kept sprialling upwards as tesla went from vision on borrowed money to solid profitability.

Now as that hyper enthusiam deflates with the rest of the market, Elon musk is alienating the tesla core consumer - at least in the US market. How that will play out in the next few years is anyone's guess. But if inflation continues and recessionary pressures keep up - people are going to either downgrade or delay their purchase of a 50-100k vehicle. Especially if musk continues his right wing ranting on twitter. When margerie taylor green buys a tesla, I'll be convinced his ranting isn't going to hurt the company going forward. Until then my view is that he is alienating the consumer bases that would have a tesla purchase as an aspirational goal, and handing the customers off to chevrolet and ford and toyota.

And possibly delaying the conversion to EV as the standard if some are going to be picking up one last non all EV, and hindering his supposed stated goal to 'save the planet'.

So - holding on to tesla could be risky!

Thanks for the comments.  

Both of those companies are pretty darn good and own the marketshare of their products.  I bought low on each of them and absolutely believe they are way oversold right now.  I am going to have to bid my time and see what happens next year.  As someone said, they didn't go to $0 but it sure does feel like it.  

I simply can't go from $580k to $180k and just sell out and give up the potential gains I had.  I need at least some recovery back before I start a new position.

Are you sure about that?  Tesla is no longer the only game in town for EVs, and they have never been good in reliability rankings.  Plus, they are getting a lot of bad press in several areas, not even considering the public backlash against Elon Musk and the financial problems with his botching of Twitter.  On the other hand, if you had been intelligently invested in the first place you would not have been at $580k anyway. 

[WannabeWealthy]

Dec 30, 2022 23:54:09 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Dec 30, 2022 20:00:37 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

Thanks for the comments.  

Both of those companies are pretty darn good and own the marketshare of their products.  I bought low on each of them and absolutely believe they are way oversold right now.  I am going to have to bid my time and see what happens next year.  As someone said, they didn't go to $0 but it sure does feel like it.  

I simply can't go from $580k to $180k and just sell out and give up the potential gains I had.  I need at least some recovery back before I start a new position.

Are you sure about that?  Tesla is no longer the only game in town for EVs, and they have never been good in reliability rankings.  Plus, they are getting a lot of bad press in several areas, not even considering the public backlash against Elon Musk and the financial problems with his botching of Twitter.  On the other hand, if you had been intelligently invested in the first place you would not have been at $580k anyway. 

You are probably right about the intelligently invested part but it happened to me because I got luckhy with Tesla at the bottom during the COVID-19 crash.  

In any case, I'm going to continue to play growth stocks for now as it's going to be the only way I can get enough gains to retire even at 62yrs old.  If I go conservative now, I'll be in trouble in 9yrs for sure.

[Deleted]

Dec 30, 2022 18:10:19 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

I no longer buy individual stocks, and you shouldn't either.

This is overly simplistic advice, along with Dave Ramsey's "All credit cards are BAD" rule. OK for some people but it depends on the individual. (I paid zero finance charges on my credit cards this year and earned about $1,000 in Real Money rebates. )

I'm beginning to lean more towards individual stocks rather than mutual funds and ETFs. My reasoning is that most of them have all the Big Names; if you looked at the major holdings a year ago they all would have had Google, FaceBook, Microsoft, TSLA, etc. It would depend some on the objectives of the fund or ETF but it would be pretty predictable. You can't have a major mutual fund without them unless it's highly specialized (say, focused on energy). So, if the market gets jittery about one of the biggies, the whole mutual fund or ETF sinks even though there may be some good stocks in there. I'm not going to sell all my ETFs and mutual funds and buy stocks when the market opens on Monday but I'm leaning in that direction even though it may mean more careful monitoring and selling when I have to.

Final tally for this year: UBS account down 18.4%, Fidelity down 15%, total down 17.8%. Those are internal rates of return, so my withdrawals, which were about 3.5%, are not counted in those decreases. But get this: since I retired in mid-2014 my assets have gone up by an average of 2.5%/year AFTER withdrawals that averaged 3.5%/year. So, an average IRR of about 6%/year with plenty of bumps along the way. You will not get that with CDs or money market accounts.

Grandkids' 529s:  I put in $19,000 but the total went down by $10,000.  Oops.  Long time horizon, though- the oldest child is only 8.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

So were all your investments in these 2 stocks?  Why?  What happened with Enron is not that long ago, does no one remember?

[minnesotapaintlady]

Dec 31, 2022 8:57:45 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

I'm beginning to lean more towards individual stocks rather than mutual funds and ETFs. My reasoning is that most of them have all the Big Names; if you looked at the major holdings a year ago they all would have had Google, FaceBook, Microsoft, TSLA, etc. It would depend some on the objectives of the fund or ETF but it would be pretty predictable. You can't have a major mutual fund without them unless it's highly specialized (say, focused on energy). So, if the market gets jittery about one of the biggies, the whole mutual fund or ETF sinks even though there may be some good stocks in there. I'm not going to sell all my ETFs and mutual funds and buy stocks when the market opens on Monday but I'm leaning in that direction even though it may mean more careful monitoring and selling when I have to.

And on the flip side the fund can rise even with some bad stocks in there.

[susana1954]

Dec 31, 2022 8:57:45 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Dec 30, 2022 18:10:19 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

I no longer buy individual stocks, and you shouldn't either.

This is overly simplistic advice, along with Dave Ramsey's "All credit cards are BAD" rule. OK for some people but it depends on the individual. (I paid zero finance charges on my credit cards this year and earned about $1,000 in Real Money rebates. )

I am basically a simple person when it comes to money. I will be the first to admit that.  There are some people who religiously study the stock market, charting the ups and downs, the p/e, and so.  Obviously, you do.  But then you do everything so well. 

You are right as always.  The individual poster obviously knows what he is doing so he should just hang on to his stock picks until they rise again.  I shouldn't have presumed to have given this specific individual advice.  It might be misconstrued as advice for everyone.

[teen persuasion]

This is why I use mostly Total Stock market and Total Bond MFs - own the WHOLE haystack, instead of looking for the needle in the haystack.  Individual stocks are too volatile unless you have a large number of different ones in your portfolio, so the winners outweigh the losers; it's more efficient for me to buy the broadest MF and let them worry about the mix.

We are down about 15% overall this year, but VTSAX is down nearly 20%.  We've also used the downturn to our advantage somewhat, Roth converting more shares for the same $ amount while the prices are lower.  I'm still pushing some into my retirement account, buying at lower prices, but not nearly as much as we bought in past years (because DH retired and our only income RN is my part-time pay).  Low prices are a buying opportunity.

[Deleted]

Here's sone of the most beautiful examples of graphic information I've seen. You'll have to click on "Download" to get the PDF.

It's the Callan Chart, which shows investments by category in rows, with years as the columns. Within each year, categories are arranged with the highest-performing at the top and the worst at the bottom. It clearly shows the folly of dumping whatever performed badly in the year and jumping into the latest hot thing without additional research. I'm looking forward to the year-end 2022 version.

www.callan.com/research/2021-classic-periodic-table/

[minnesotapaintlady]

Dec 31, 2022 11:36:55 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

This is why I use mostly Total Stock market and Total Bond MFs - own the WHOLE haystack, instead of looking for the needle in the haystack.  Individual stocks are too volatile unless you have a large number of different ones in your portfolio, so the winners outweigh the losers; it's more efficient for me to buy the broadest MF and let them worry about the mix.

This is how I look at it too.  Unless you have enough money to buy into a LOT of stocks it's really hard to be diversified going the individual route.

Most of my retirement money is in S&P funds, so down about 17% for the year.  I have one fund that makes up about 25% of my retirement that is down less than 6%, so I think I'm only down about 15% overall.  Considering that's 100% hands-off investing in a bad year, that doesn't seem so bad.  I've certainly been through worse (looking at you 2008!)

[jerseygirl]

Headline on the Wall Street Journal today
Worst stock year since 2008

Depressing when in addition there are many predictions of a recession in 2023

[souldoubt]

Our investments are down 19% this year and that's with the majority invested in index funds.  There are a few mutual funds I'm invested in through my 401K as I wanted the higher risk/return exposure and these cover emerging markets and a fund that is heavily weighted in tech stocks.  The tech stock fund is down 30% this year but the 3, 5 and 10 year returns are still over 10% and it's one of the best performing in its class.  I've worked for over 15 years for a firm in the investment industry but my job is on the finance side.  I was surprised in talking with multiple people over the years who are on the investment side to find that they follow index investing.  That just reaffirmed my index investing investment strategy.  I don't have the stomach to be heavily invested in too few stocks but props to those that do.