Alt- Halloween

[thyme4change]

My neighborhood (primarily white and getting wealthier all the time due to ridiculous house prices) decided during Covid to do a “neighborhood only” Halloween the night before. They had all these rules about having an outside table with candy laid out so kids could take it without touching other candy and homeowners sitting 6 feet away from the table, etc. Many people did not give Candy on the 31st that year - and I get that. It was 2020 and Covid was hitting our area.

Now, it is a tradition that “our kids” trick or treat on Saturday, and then the 31st is a mixed bag. If you want to give candy on the hood only night, you sign up and they put your address on a map and families are supposed to follow that. But ya know people can’t follow instructions, so this year kids were ringing doorbells that were not on the list. Some of those kids came on the 31st as well.

Given our proximity to a variety of economic areas, on Halloween we get kids who don’t live in the neighborhood as well as random adults asking for candy. I know that bothers some people. And I understand why week nights are tough to have Trick or Treating.

This morning our neighborhood Facebook group is a mild shit show - with a variety of opinions on how the neighborhood night is ruining real Halloween (our turn out was pretty low last night, and you don’t see all the neighbor kids unless you do the other night) or that we should agree to stop the 31st all together, or that they should have a party for the hood, but no early trick or treating, or that the early group should be more careful about whose door they go to, and on and on.

I usually get some perspective on things from the variety of opinions here. What do you all think about the situation? Should my neighborhood continue with the Saturday night deal until the country catches up and moves Halloween to the last Saturday in October? Are we being snobby rich folk who want to keep those brown people out of our neighborhood? Is the two-state solution a viable compromise? If you lived here, would you do one or the other nights, or both?

[gs11rmb]

I'd drop the neighbourhood party and just do Halloween.  It's a specific date and moving it around confuses everyone.

On a separate note, I feel almost nauseated when I hear of people complaining about "outside" kids.  


ETA: I wasn't implying that you were complaining about "outside" kids but I have heard that sentiment expressed before.

[raeoflyte]

I love Halloween! Favorite holiday. But I'd drop the extra night of trick or treating. I dont like extra trunk or treats either. 1 night of candy grabbing is more than enough.

Do a block/neighborhood party if everyone wants to that weekend before.

I also can't ever understand people who complain about who comes trick or treating. We go with friends so we're frequently the "outsiders" tagging along in another neighborhood.

[busymom]

Yes, they're turning into snobs.  I say that living in a neighborhood where "outsiders" get brought in.  I don't let the "strange" kids bother me.  They're coming from neighborhoods where frankly it's getting a bit dangerous to knock on strange doors after dark.  Anyone is welcome to stop by my house, as long as they don't vandalize my property.  I give the "too old to trick-or-treat" kids candy too, because they're not making trouble, drinking, doing drugs, etc., they just want to get a bit of free candy, so it's all good.  

It's up to you whether or not you want to participate in both nights.  If it's too much trouble, or your kids are getting too much candy by doing both, then you decide what's most important to you.  

[giramomma]

Why do you assume brown people are the only ones that can be poor?

The first place DH and I owned a home in was one of the worst neighborhoods in the city, as defined by the police department.

By that label, we were the poor riff-raff. We're also white, BTW.

We took our kids to the neighborhood where we currently live in to trick or treat.

Our previous neighborhood was made of condos and apartments. Entrances are locked. There were no way to get into locked buildings, so we went to houses.

What was I supposed to do? Tell my kids "Oh, sorry, we're poor white riff-raff living in our means. So, you don't deserve 45 minutes of trick or treating."

Or, even better should I have told my kids "Sorry, mommy and daddy chose to be responsible by not getting caught up in the housing crisis of 2008. Next time, we'll make shitty assed financial decisions so that you can trick or treat with out getting a side-eye.!"

So much drama over halloween.

Where I grew up, you ToT'ed on Sunday, from 12-2. Except for me. I was not allowed to go ToTing because people are untrustworthy.

Where we live now, you go out on Halloween night. It's 1-2 hours of fun.

If you don't want to participate, don't. Keeping your porch light off for one night isn't exactly some heavy lift.

[raeoflyte]

Nov 1, 2022 12:38:27 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Why do you assume brown people are the only ones that can be poor?

The first place DH and I owned a home in was one of the worst neighborhoods in the city, as defined by the police department.

By that label, we were the poor riff-raff. We're also white, BTW.

We took our kids to the neighborhood where we currently live in to trick or treat.

Our previous neighborhood was made of condos and apartments. Entrances are locked. There were no way to get into locked buildings, so we went to houses.

What was I supposed to do? Tell my kids "Oh, sorry, we're poor white riff-raff living in our means. So, you don't deserve 45 minutes of trick or treating."

Or, even better should I have told my kids "Sorry, mommy and daddy chose to be responsible by not getting caught up in the housing crisis of 2008. Next time, we'll make shitty assed financial decisions so that you can trick or treat with out getting a side-eye.!"

So much drama over halloween.

Where I grew up, you ToT'ed on Sunday, from 12-2. Except for me. I was not allowed to go ToTing because people are untrustworthy.

Where we live now, you go out on Halloween night. It's 1-2 hours of fun.

If you don't want to participate, don't. Keeping your porch light off for one night isn't exactly some heavy lift.

I don't think thyme is saying that?

It's that the overall complaining starts when the demographic starts to flip. Darker kids ToT'ing in predominantly white neighborhood and next-door blows up.

[chiver78]

yes, your neighbors are turning into snobs. if you can swing the candy stash for two nights, I'd say do it. I love Halloween, and I hate that I can't play here in this house. I mean, I could turn on my light and hand out candy, but my street is physically not safe to walk in daytime. I'm not encouraging kids to walk it in the dark w/o street lights. it's a winding, narrow, woodsy road that's barely wide enough for two cars and there isn't a sidewalk. 

if I had kids, I'd be taking them up the street to the development to walk around. so I guess I'd be an outsider there, too. I already am, as I walk my dogs up there. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

For all the faults of where I live in Council Bluffs this isn't one of them.  ToT is a free for all and it's always the 31st.  You go to whoever has their porch light on.  No porch light you don't knock.

ToT has always been October 31st whatever day it lands on.  In general it usually gets started with the real tiny kids around 5:30 pm and about 9:00pm is when people start turning off their lights. 

That's just the way it's always been for as long as I can remember.  

I vote the neighborhood is getting snobby.  What makes those kids less deserving of candy?  It's freaking candy you aren't handing over your family jewels for Christ's sake. 

I'd do one night and invite ALL the "bad kids" over to my house, maybe even let them TP it with my blessing just so I can watch my neighbors have a hissy fit.  Full sized candy bars to whoever can get the TP over my roof.

[Sharon]

My cousin lives in a neighborhood that has been deemed a great place to Trick or Treat.  She limits her candy purchase to 800 pieces, yes 800 TOT's every year.  They just set up a table out by the sidewalk and the kids walk by.  She said her 800 pieces is usually gone within an hour.

Her attitude is it is what it is and it's only one day a year.

[thyme4change]

Nov 1, 2022 12:38:27 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Why do you assume brown people are the only ones that can be poor?

My neighborhood doesn’t like poor white people either. They have talked about gating the neighborhood to keep out non-residents. And apparently having money and owning a house in the neighborhood, but not being white, is also unacceptable- as one of our neighbors told another neighbor who is Native American to ‘go back where they came from’ which is both disgusting and hilarious. Bitch - where do you think they are from?

I know it isn’t a monolith and there are many attitudes in our hood. The debate on FB is a good sign to me that it isn’t a total wash. Someone did bring up another option, which is that for years a family hosted a Halloween party and everyone in the hood was invited - it was much more age neutral and inclusive. They burned out. Maybe I will pick up that torch.

[CCL]

We have lots of "outsiders." Sometimes there is nowhere to park there are so many people.

You could do like some of my neighbors and pass out Jello shots. Then some of them might lighten up. Maybe that's why my neighborhood is so popular?

[chiver78]

Nov 1, 2022 13:00:17 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

For all the faults of where I live in Council Bluffs this isn't one of them.  ToT is a free for all and it's always the 31st.  You go to whoever has their porch light on.  No porch light you don't knock.

ToT has always been October 31st whatever day it lands on.  In general it usually gets started with the real tiny kids around 5:30 pm and about 9:00pm is when people start turning off their lights. 

That's just the way it's always been for as long as I can remember.  

I vote the neighborhood is getting snobby.  What makes those kids less deserving of candy?  It's freaking candy you aren't handing over your family jewels for Christ's sake. 

I'd do one night and invite ALL the "bad kids" over to my house, maybe even let them TP it with my blessing just so I can watch my neighbors have a hissy fit.  Full sized candy bars to whoever can get the TP over my roof.

I knew I liked you! 

[Deleted]

I'd vote for an early block party for just the neighborhood so everyone gets to socialize (and maybe distribute treats to the kids) and then October 31 open to everyone, including neighborhood kids.

I do feel like it's getting to be too much with multiple Trunk or Treat events on top of actual trick-or-treating, and parents driving their kids from neighborhood to neighborhood. I've mellowed a bit about "outsiders"- we don't have many kids in the neighborhood (in fact, the one family I know who has 5 kids didn't show up) but this made me realize one great benefit (other than kids in less-safe neighborhoods having a safe place for T or T): my neighborhood is prosperous and has a lot of brown people who own homes here. Good for the kids from outside to see what's possible.

[Ryan]

Our neighborhood had basically a fall Halloween night/block party the weekend before Halloween but there was no candy.  I guess if you're inclined, that seems like a good way to go.  If the point is to socialize, then I don't see why you'd want to hand out candy so everyone was forced to stay at their home.

I wouldn't do 2 Halloween nights, seems like overkill.  We have outside kids come in our neighborhood, but it's still fairly local.  I have heard that some areas have vanloads of kids coming to their house to trick/treat and that would get a little much.  

[Deleted]

I vote for "Yes, they are snobby" and "October 31 only"

There was a similar discussion on our local NextDoor where someone said all Hispanic teens are gang members and all Hispanic parents are cartel mules. I was pleasantly surprised to see some serious pushback on that

[azucena]

Kids have been hopping neighborhoods since forever. I grew up on a farm so we went into town to trick or treat. People can leave lights off or buy whatever candy and turn lights off when they run out.

My neighborhood has added trunk or treat. Dd10 has trunk or treat at her school and of course. Of course they didn't overlap. I told DD10 that I was buying one set of candy and then regifting what she collected from first trunk or treat to the next one. She didn't get enough to cover the second one partially bc I think she took one piece from each car.

What's with the idea that we shouldn't hand kids candy, but rather let them sift thru the bowl for their favorites? And at the neighborhood one, I'd say take two and many would dig out a whole handful - all ages. Meanwhile if parents were even with them, only one made the kid put any back. One kid hit up my neighbors car and was told take one from each bucket - full size airheads and blow pops. Kid dug out a whole bunch and neighbor was like whoa, one from each bucket. Kid smirked and said oh, I thought you said one of each flavor. Yeah bc bucket and flavor sound alike. Kid walked off and neighbor muttered shithead just loud enough. God, I love her.

[Tennesseer]

I luck out each Halloween.  It has probably been 15 plus years since any kids came to the cove I live on to TorT.  No one on the cove prepares for Halloween.

[Empire the P.A.]

I guess that’s why no one came to my door, I forgot to turn the light on. I saw one kid open my gate and by the time I got to my door and opened it he had already left and was down at the next house. I almost ran over with my bowl of chocolates yelling “Hey, I got candy!“ but thought it was a bad idea seeing a crazy haired korean lady running after a little kid. (I cut my own hair again the other day)

[Cookies Galore]

I'm all for telling the snobs to suck it and revert to the Halloween free-for-all.

I live in a small (0.8 square miles) borough and the border with the township next door begins on the even side of a street. Then we have another community just across the river. I live in a spot where I can see all the out of towners parking and getting out of their cars. I take pride in my town being the place to be on Halloween; it's fun, safe, and just lets kids be kids (teens included). I buy at least 500 pieces of candy each year, and my husband and I sit on the porch all night handing out candy, drinking the beverages of our choice. One of my favorite nights of the year.

[TheOtherMe]

Our neighborhood growing up was a growing subdivision of families moving to Des Moines from farming communities, so lots and lots of kids.
 
If the weather was decent, mom always gave out over 200 pieces of whatever she was giving that year.  

We wandered far and wide for the allotted time.  Didn't seem to bother anyone because their kids were doing the same thing.

My sister said  people probably considered her kids intruders.  They lived on a farm and would take the kids to town to Trick or Treat.  Nobody ever came to the farm.  Her kids went to school with these kids so they wanted to Trick or Treat.

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2022 16:03:32 GMT -5 azucena said:

What's with the idea that we shouldn't hand kids candy, but rather let them sift thru the bowl for their favorites? And at the neighborhood one, I'd say take two and many would dig out a whole handful - all ages. Meanwhile if parents were even with them, only one made the kid put any back. One kid hit up my neighbors car and was told take one from each bucket - full size airheads and blow pops. Kid dug out a whole bunch and neighbor was like whoa, one from each bucket. Kid smirked and said oh, I thought you said one of each flavor. 

Not at my house.  I hold onto the bowl and give each kid pieces chosen at random.  I hope the one you saw ends up with rotting teeth.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

If there are multiple types of candy I don't mind the kids grabbing their favorite or snagging one of mine on request. 😉

But we don't allow them to dig and we remind them one piece only unless they are given permission. Don't knock kids off the porch, watch out for Littles and say thank you.

I'm pleased to say at every house pretty much every parent was yelling the exact same things. Kids are pretty good here I've never encountered any trouble either out TOTing or handing out candy.

Last kid makes out like a bandit at our house because we want to get rid of what's left so we'll the entire bowl in the bag.

[teen persuasion]

I was leaving the library just as ToT began last night. Boss had a whole table set up: snack bags, a bowl of non-food (little jars of playdoh, crayons, pencils, stickers, etc), and a big bowl of candy left from the trick or trunk weeks ago. All gone, and they were throwing odds and ends from past SRP swag and bookmarks in the last bowl before they were done. So a good turn out despite the crappy weather.

Today the pres of the Friends came in to run our weekly Lego club, and it was quiet, no kids yet. We were both agreeing that everyone was lying low because we were all tired out from too many Halloween events: 3 trick or trunks, a ghost talk program, a Mischief night party (kids), a Witches' Tea (adults), and ToT on the 31st.

So another vote for ToT on 31st only.

[toomuchreality]

I rarely know, or pay attention to who the kids are that come to my door, unless they speak to me (personally), or I see their parent. And I usually offer parents candy, after the kids get theirs.
I pass it out and remind kids to say thank you. If they knock and just hold out their bag, I ask them to say trick or treat, before I give them anything. I have refused to give kids that came back 2-3 times additional treats, if I caught them and had a limited supply of the treat (one year I gave Twinkies and Ding Dongs, to the first 40 kids).
Last year, I passed out candy at DD2's house, while they went T or T-ing. I took the candy I'd purchased to give at my house with me and gave it out there, in addition to what they'd purchased. When my SIL came home, I went and bought more candy. We ran out again, before the night was over.

I would plan on the 31st, and participate in any extra additional events you want to/can.

Snobby people are no better than greedy people, in my opinion.

[thyme4change]

After a couple of brave people stood up against the separate night, all the parents who did participate flooded the chat and one suggested we vote on if it should be allowed or not. That would be pointless, as most who are against it would abstain from voting to not look like an a-hole. So, it will continue. I am going to go to the board and ask if we can revive the Halloween party that included all ages.

We had a block party this weekend and it was obvious to me that we (the board) need to step back and re-evaluate some of our long standing traditions. Our neighborhood has gotten much younger in the past 5 years. The youngins all have small kids and no representation on the board, so the older people on the board keep pulling out the same play book. I think the overall party was okay, but they keep hiring this band (lead singer lives in the hood) and his book is so narrow and old. Blue Oyster Cult is hard to dance to, and half the people in the hood are the age that their parents were in diapers when the songs came out. We need songs from this century.

I wonder what would make things fun for young families?

[raeoflyte]

Nov 8, 2022 10:09:04 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

After a couple of brave people stood up against the separate night, all the parents who did participate flooded the chat and one suggested we vote on if it should be allowed or not. That would be pointless, as most who are against it would abstain from voting to not look like an a-hole. So, it will continue. I am going to go to the board and ask if we can revive the Halloween party that included all ages.

We had a block party this weekend and it was obvious to me that we (the board) need to step back and re-evaluate some of our long standing traditions. Our neighborhood has gotten much younger in the past 5 years. The youngins all have small kids and no representation on the board, so the older people on the board keep pulling out the same play book. I think the overall party was okay, but they keep hiring this band (lead singer lives in the hood) and his book is so narrow and old. Blue Oyster Cult is hard to dance to, and half the people in the hood are the age that their parents were in diapers when the songs came out. We need songs from this century.

I wonder what would make things fun for young families?

We have a big party each year and they used to hire a magician - now she does foam parties and the kids absolutely love it. Even the teens. The magician/foam party lady is the one who keeps the association hip to the trends. We aren't actually in an hoa but they encourage everyone to contribute $20 a year which covers party activities, and the main dish for the summer and holiday party.

[thyme4change]

Nov 8, 2022 10:17:09 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Nov 8, 2022 10:09:04 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

After a couple of brave people stood up against the separate night, all the parents who did participate flooded the chat and one suggested we vote on if it should be allowed or not. That would be pointless, as most who are against it would abstain from voting to not look like an a-hole. So, it will continue. I am going to go to the board and ask if we can revive the Halloween party that included all ages.

We had a block party this weekend and it was obvious to me that we (the board) need to step back and re-evaluate some of our long standing traditions. Our neighborhood has gotten much younger in the past 5 years. The youngins all have small kids and no representation on the board, so the older people on the board keep pulling out the same play book. I think the overall party was okay, but they keep hiring this band (lead singer lives in the hood) and his book is so narrow and old. Blue Oyster Cult is hard to dance to, and half the people in the hood are the age that their parents were in diapers when the songs came out. We need songs from this century.

I wonder what would make things fun for young families?

We have a big party each year and they used to hire a magician - now she does foam parties and the kids absolutely love it. Even the teens. The magician/foam party lady is the one who keeps the association hip to the trends. We aren't actually in an hoa but they encourage everyone to contribute $20 a year which covers party activities, and the main dish for the summer and holiday party.

What is a foam party?

[raeoflyte]

Nov 8, 2022 22:59:58 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Nov 8, 2022 10:17:09 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

We have a big party each year and they used to hire a magician - now she does foam parties and the kids absolutely love it. Even the teens. The magician/foam party lady is the one who keeps the association hip to the trends. We aren't actually in an hoa but they encourage everyone to contribute $20 a year which covers party activities, and the main dish for the summer and holiday party.

What is a foam party?

Well that link is insane, but a picture in this case will be better then my explanation. Not for Halloween - but for other block parties in nice weather months.

www.google.com/search?q=foam+party&sxsrf=ALiCzsaNrrsC4gSdOwLtS6xkqOpv32fT6w%3A1667999238733&source=hp&ei=BqZrY4erKufG0PEP-eqcmAo&oq=foam+party&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBADMggIABCABBCxAzIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDILCAAQgAQQyQMQyQMyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQ6DQguEMcBEK8BEOoCECc6BwgjEOoCECc6BwguEOoCECc6BAgjECc6CwgAEIAEELEDEIMBOggILhCxAxCDAToRCC4QgAQQsQMQgwEQxwEQ0QM6CAgAELEDEIMBOgsILhCABBCxAxCDAVCMBljsF2CcHGgAcAB4AIAB7AGIAe4LkgEFMS44LjKYAQCgAQGwAQ8&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp#imgrc=jdLfyHNoJl8GLM

[Deleted]

Nov 9, 2022 8:10:11 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Well that link is insane, but a picture in this case will be better then my explanation. Not for Halloween - but for other block parties in nice weather months.

Link

Well, at least you wouldn't need a bath before you went to bed. :-)

[resolution]

Nov 1, 2022 11:33:53 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I usually get some perspective on things from the variety of opinions here. What do you all think about the situation? Should my neighborhood continue with the Saturday night deal until the country catches up and moves Halloween to the last Saturday in October? Are we being snobby rich folk who want to keep those brown people out of our neighborhood? Is the two-state solution a viable compromise? If you lived here, would you do one or the other nights, or both?

In your situation I would have candy for the kids both nights. It's not their fault if their parents are being asshats and trying to create an exclusive event. I think it's silly for a neighborhood in the Phoenix area to move Halloween to a different date, and it makes me think that you have a lot of transplants from other areas of the country that have moved in to your neighborhood.

Out here in the mid-Atlantic, all the towns have scheduled days for trick or treat, and almost none of them fall on a weekend. My town did Thursday Oct 27 with a rain date of Fri Oct 28 (no rain so we did Thursday). The other towns in the area had different dates. I imagine that a lot of kids went to several towns on different days. I don't care how much candy the kids end up with from different neighborhoods, I like seeing the cuteness and creative costumes.  We had about 400 kids come to our door and it wouldn't surprise me if most of them were from the farms or surrounding towns.

That kind of scheduling is normal for this area but not for Phoenix.