it happened! +2k to 401k limits, +1k to catch ups.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/irs-raises-contribution-limits-for-retirement-savings-plans/ar-AA13eH1j?cvid=829fa898bfe94a1ebf22aaab6e5cfb35





so I will do 3 k more into the pretax accounts.... I think??



depends on my other stuff, but loosely planning on it...

[schildi]

Not too many people will have the extra money, with inflation at 10% and salaries being frozen everywhere I look. :-(
But yes, for me it's $3k more also, and I'll max it (assuming nothing unexpected happens until then).

[azucena]

I'll max to the new amount too. Will mean that I don't have the last few paychecks at the end where I've already maxed so net a few hundred more.

I wish the IRA joint income cap would have gone up more. I need more room.

[minnesotapaintlady]

I'm probably going to tag out after this year.    If I maxed 401K, HSA and IRA next year it would be $45,250 and that's just crazy train at my income.

Still keeping an eye on Secure Act 2.0, many believe it will go through after midterms and that will change things up quite a bit if catch up contributions have to be Roth.

[Deleted]

Be cautious about what you put into before vs. after-tax savings. The conventional wisdom has always been to max out your 401(k) because you'll be in a higher tax bracket during your earning years than in retirement. I ended up with about 50-50 IRA vs. after-tax savings. I'm still in a high tax bracket- marginal rate was 22% in 2021 and I'll be doing Roth conversion to get it that level for 2022. Income is lower this year because of bad investment results, of course.

Some things that might make deferred tax accounts a bad idea:

1. Withdrawals are all ordinary income. That's the kicker for me. I'm a buy-and-hold person but when I start making withdrawals that include long-term gains and dividends from my IRA, there's no preferential tax treatment.

2. Withdrawals are a component of your Adjusted Gross Income and your Modified Adjusted Gross Income. AGI is the number used for calculating some tax thresholds (you can deduct Medical only over 7.5% or 10% of your AGI, I forget which). MAGI is used to determine whether or not you pay IRMAA surcharges on Medicare premiums. AGI and MAGI are NOT reduced by any deductions you take.

3. There are people on the Early retirement Board who "manage" their AGI so that it's low enough that they qualify for ACA subsidies. Legal but yes, there are people who feel that it's gaming the system. If you have to withdraw from tax-deferred accounts to meet expenses, you may not qualify for subsidies.

4. Then there's the tax torpedo when you have to start making RMDs. (Yes, I WILL be making QCDs to the extent I can.) I'll have a few years between collecting SS on my own record at age 69, which just about doubled from Survivor benefits, and age 73 when I need to start RMDs. That's gonna be a killer.

It's complicated. I can't tell you what I would have paid on taxes over 40+ years on the LT gains and losses and dividends in my IRAs/401(k)s.

And I know I'm atypical (in a good way) but if you're hoping to retire with a lot and/or to get ACA subsidies, stashing it all away in tax-deferred might not be a good way to go.

[jerseygirl]

Taz torpedo indeed!
I looked at QCDs but these don’t decrease the AGI. So I’m seriously thinking of directly donating all or most of RMD from an IRA. To avoid IRMAAs for both of us - it’s a lot to pay for Medicare.
I’m on board of a charity and I’d rather give to the charity than government

[minnesotapaintlady]

I get a 40% kickback on every dollar I put into tax deferred and that doesn't even take into consideration all the money DS has gotten in financial aid due to doing so.  I can't imagine a tax situation in the future where I'd be paying more than that drawing 40-50K/year.

[haapai]

Oct 25, 2022 8:21:17 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I get a 40% kickback on every dollar I put into tax deferred and that doesn't even take into consideration all the money DS has gotten in financial aid due to doing so.  I can't imagine a tax situation in the future where I'd be paying more than that drawing 40-50K/year.

This is another example of why I admire MPL so much.  She does her own math and isn't afraid to say, "Well, actually, in my situation, the math works a bit differently and I have decided to zig when the rest of you are being counseled and encouraged to zag." 

[plugginaway22]

Agreed Haapai! When you have no/minimal debt with low annual expenses things become a different take pretty quickly. 

[tallguy]

"Well, actually, in my situation, the math works a bit differently and I have decided to zig when the rest of you are being counseled and encouraged to zag."

When you have no/minimal debt with low annual expenses things become a different take pretty quickly.

Yeah, exactly.  I've always been a big believer in learning as much as possible and each individual doing what is best for him/herself regardless of what anyone else says or does.  I am fortunate that money and finance have always been an interest of mine since I was young, and that I possess both a gift for numbers and a saver's mentality.  Those make things a lot easier, but it is amazing how far knowledge and discipline will carry you if you let them.  Without that knowledge, though, you can miss out on an awful lot.  And, for those like myself, there is an additional satisfaction to be gained by "beating the system."  So there's that....   

[Deleted]

Are companies still offering a match only on 401(k) contributions, not after-tax? Yes, that definitely DOES change the decision. I think it was that way at the place I worked from 2002-2012: the match was 100% up to your first 6% so of course I put it into the 401(k). (Roths were available only the last year or two.) I'd like to see that changed but I guess it defeats the purpose of giving people an incentive to "lock up" their money in a retirement account so they're not tempted to blow it before retirement.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Oct 25, 2022 14:40:35 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Are companies still offering a match only on 401(k) contributions, not after-tax? Yes, that definitely DOES change the decision. I think it was that way at the place I worked from 2002-2012: the match was 100% up to your first 6% so of course I put it into the 401(k). (Roths were available only the last year or two.) I'd like to see that changed but I guess it defeats the purpose of giving people an incentive to "lock up" their money in a retirement account so they're not tempted to blow it before retirement.

My company just started offering a Roth 401K two years ago, so pre-tax was the only option up until then anyhow.

But, what I'm talking about is tax credits.  With 2 kids, the Earned Income Credit is 20% for AGI between 19K and 44K or so (would have to look it up to get the most recent upper limit), so for every $1000 I put into pretax I get another $200 in credit.  My state has a similar credit that works out to about 10%.  Then if you add on that I have a 10% marginal rate we're at 40% savings.  Every dime of those credits has been invested as well...mostly into Roth IRA. 

[Pink Cashmere]

Oct 25, 2022 14:40:35 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Are companies still offering a match only on 401(k) contributions, not after-tax? Yes, that definitely DOES change the decision. I think it was that way at the place I worked from 2002-2012: the match was 100% up to your first 6% so of course I put it into the 401(k). (Roths were available only the last year or two.) I'd like to see that changed but I guess it defeats the purpose of giving people an incentive to "lock up" their money in a retirement account so they're not tempted to blow it before retirement.

My employer matches my 401k type contributions, up to 5% of my salary. It’s a little more complicated than that, but what it boils down to is that if I contribute 5%, they will add another 5%.

Retirement was the furthest thing from my mind when I started my current job at 26yo, but I’ve never been one to turn down “free” money, so I’ve always contributed at least 5% so I didn’t leave any money on the table that my employer was willing to give me. The bad thing about it is that I have treated it like a regular savings account on occasion, and took loans and withdrawals from it. I got smarter about that when I finally understood that needing income in retirement is a real thing, and I want to retire ASAP. 

But even with the bad decisions, I am very grateful that I started contributing from the start because I’d really be up shit’s creek wanting to retire if I hadn’t. 

When Mister and I first started talking about buying a house together, I told him that since the only debt between us was the mortgage on my house that I wasn’t selling, I’d like for us to set ourselves up so that we could live on one income if we ever had to and save most of the other, with a little playing too. My preference was to be able to live on my income, which is less than his. Even if it was barebones, just surviving, I wanted us to be able to make it with just 1 income, even if it was mine.

We did buy a house that cost a lot less than we could afford on paper, and less than either of us could technically “afford” individually. Even though I couldn’t afford to buy this same house myself these days, because the housing market went crazy during the 3 years since we bought it and according to Zillow, it is “worth” $100k more than we paid for it. Too much for my pockets alone. I guess maybe if I sold my other house to buy somewhere else for me to live, since it increased in value too.

I don’t know what Mister has done, but I have doubled the amount of money I save in my 401k type retirement account since we merged households. Now, I put money in the Roth that has been added as an option. It’s only 5% of my salary, but still more than the zero I’ve put in there before.

My brain still gets wonky when I try to figure out my retirement. So I just keep putting money here and there and hoping for the best. I figure that is at least better than ignoring it completely and not saving anything at all. I am pretty sure that if I could just sit down with the numbers and calculate what’s what, I could come up with a better, real plan that makes money sense. But I am very intimidated by that process, so I don’t. 

I think that if we sat down and put all our income, expenses and bullshit on the table, and got on the same page, we would both be able to max our retirement accounts at least. But he has expenses he doesn’t really want to talk about, and so do I, and all of it has to do with our children and families. A LOT of money flies out of our household dealing with that kind of stuff, whether it’s right or wrong. So we just don’t talk about it. Neither of us can judge the other or get upset, because we’re both doing the same thing. So I keep doing what I do, as long as I take care of my responsibilities at home, and he does the same.

I am not saying what we are doing is the best way to go about things. I’m just saying that that’s how we’ve chosen to deal with certain things, even though I recognize that there is a lot of room for improvement.

Mister is younger than me, and his children are younger than mine. However I make the numbers work, it is almost guaranteed that he will have to continue working after I retire. That’s okay, because he likes working. He doesn’t even know how to take a vacation right lol.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Oct 25, 2022 7:40:48 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

1. Withdrawals are all ordinary income. That's the kicker for me. I'm a buy-and-hold person but when I start making withdrawals that include long-term gains and dividends from my IRA, there's no preferential tax treatment.

But we've discussed this! You always forget about having a lot less money to invest in taxable. If you skipped pretax treatment and invest, you're paying income tax off the top and putting a lot less away to compound, so probably only $75 for every $100 of pay.

You'd then have to pay LTG/dividend taxes on the first 25% (or more?) of the earning until you got it back up to 100. You need a 33% gain to get it up to $100 again. so that is like 2-3 years in a pretty good market. so accounting for any dividend taxes - a solid 3 years on average to get to the same amount invested.....but meanwhile, your pretax is cooking......

Let's see what Phil says....Wondering if this is right - someone poke holes in this....assuming the same 25% tax rate during earning and withdrawals......


According to my Phil Script, a lump sum investment of $100.00 bearing an annual return of 11% could grow to $2,289.23 in 30 years! Taxed at 25% you are left with 1716.92


According to my Phil Script, a lump sum investment of $75.00 bearing an annual return of 11% could grow to $1,716.92 in 30 years! Plus you may have paid 30 years of dividend taxes and now you need to pay LTCG on 1641.92

I'm not see a huge win with after tax investing.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Oct 25, 2022 7:40:48 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

2. Withdrawals are a component of your Adjusted Gross Income and your Modified Adjusted Gross Income. AGI is the number used for calculating some tax thresholds (you can deduct Medical only over 7.5% or 10% of your AGI, I forget which). MAGI is used to determine whether or not you pay IRMAA surcharges on Medicare premiums. AGI and MAGI are NOT reduced by any deductions you take.

And we've discussed IRMAA!

Even with maximum IRMAA, medicare is still reasonably priced insurance!

The Medicare Part B 2022 standard monthly premium is $170.10.


Updated 2022 IRMAA brackets can increase Medicare Part B monthly premiums by as much as $408.20 and Medicare Part D monthly premiums by as much as $77.90.

So even maxing it all out insurance for seniors for only 656.20? 

But wait - there's more good news!

Just As With The Part B Premium, IRMAA Is Going Down 3% In 2023

[CCL]

Oct 26, 2022 21:44:28 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Oct 25, 2022 7:40:48 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

1. Withdrawals are all ordinary income. That's the kicker for me. I'm a buy-and-hold person but when I start making withdrawals that include long-term gains and dividends from my IRA, there's no preferential tax treatment.

But we've discussed this! You always forget about having a lot less money to invest in taxable. If you skipped pretax treatment and invest, you're paying income tax off the top and putting a lot less away to compound, so probably only $75 for every $100 of pay.

You'd then have to pay LTG/dividend taxes on the first 25% (or more?) of the earning until you got it back up to 100. You need a 33% gain to get it up to $100 again. so that is like 2-3 years in a pretty good market. so accounting for any dividend taxes - a solid 3 years on average to get to the same amount invested.....but meanwhile, your pretax is cooking......

Let's see what Phil says....Wondering if this is right - someone poke holes in this....assuming the same 25% tax rate during earning and withdrawals......


According to my Phil Script, a lump sum investment of $100.00 bearing an annual return of 11% could grow to $2,289.23 in 30 years! Taxed at 25% you are left with 1716.92


According to my Phil Script, a lump sum investment of $75.00 bearing an annual return of 11% could grow to $1,716.92 in 30 years! Plus you may have paid 30 years of dividend taxes and now you need to pay LTCG on 1641.92

I'm not see a huge win with after tax investing.

I wouldn't say it's a huge win, but there can still be some advantages to after tax investing. For me, I pay 0% Federal tax on long-term capital gains and qualified dividends. So the gain on that fund I sold to buy Carnival stock was at 0% Federal tax rate. Of course, I probably paid some tax on the dividends and capital gains prior to Trump lowering the tax rates. Still, that fund is worth several times what I paid for it. There's no way I can go back and calculate exact amounts, but I think I've come out ahead over holding it in an IRA. I may have done better with a Roth. I don't know.

Back when I first started contributing to IRAs the limits were much lower than they are now, something like $2000 per year. So I had already reached my yearly limit and put the $$$ in my taxable brokerage account. I never had access to a 401k at all.

I also like the flexibility of splitting $$$ between different types of accounts.

[CCL]

Oct 26, 2022 21:52:34 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Oct 25, 2022 7:40:48 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

2. Withdrawals are a component of your Adjusted Gross Income and your Modified Adjusted Gross Income. AGI is the number used for calculating some tax thresholds (you can deduct Medical only over 7.5% or 10% of your AGI, I forget which). MAGI is used to determine whether or not you pay IRMAA surcharges on Medicare premiums. AGI and MAGI are NOT reduced by any deductions you take.

And we've discussed IRMAA!

Even with maximum IRMAA, medicare is still reasonably priced insurance!

The Medicare Part B 2022 standard monthly premium is $170.10.


Updated 2022 IRMAA brackets can increase Medicare Part B monthly premiums by as much as $408.20 and Medicare Part D monthly premiums by as much as $77.90.

So even maxing it all out insurance for seniors for only 656.20? 

But wait - there's more good news!

Just As With The Part B Premium, IRMAA Is Going Down 3% In 2023

Is that just the increase or the total amount?

[Deleted]

Oct 26, 2022 21:52:34 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

And we've discussed IRMAA!

Even with maximum IRMAA, medicare is still reasonably priced insurance!


So even maxing it all out insurance for seniors for only 656.20? 

In general, I agree- I was paying $900/month for a plan with a $6K deductible before I got Medicare in 2018. It had doubled over the 4 years since I retired.

BUT... based on SS records, my employers and I paid $180K into Medicare for Part A. Accumulated at 6% interest that would be $317,000. I'm too lazy to look up annuity costs but in general it's considered safe to withdraw 4% per year, increasing every year for inflation, so that's $12,000/year. In short: the money my employers and I have put in, invested reasonably, would have provided another $1,000/month on top of $665/month I'm already paying for B, D, the supplement and IRMAA. So, it's not exactly low-cost.

Believe me I'm grateful to have it. I'm also aware that as a high earner I'm subsidizing the premiums of those who earned less and that the Medicare payroll taxes are pretty much paid out for current beneficiaries' claims as soon as they're collected.

You've got to look at the whole picture.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Oct 26, 2022 21:52:34 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Oct 25, 2022 7:40:48 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

2. Withdrawals are a component of your Adjusted Gross Income and your Modified Adjusted Gross Income. AGI is the number used for calculating some tax thresholds (you can deduct Medical only over 7.5% or 10% of your AGI, I forget which). MAGI is used to determine whether or not you pay IRMAA surcharges on Medicare premiums. AGI and MAGI are NOT reduced by any deductions you take.

And we've discussed IRMAA!

Even with maximum IRMAA, medicare is still reasonably priced insurance!

The Medicare Part B 2022 standard monthly premium is $170.10.


Updated 2022 IRMAA brackets can increase Medicare Part B monthly premiums by as much as $408.20 and Medicare Part D monthly premiums by as much as $77.90.

So even maxing it all out insurance for seniors for only 656.20? 

But wait - there's more good news!

Just As With The Part B Premium, IRMAA Is Going Down 3% In 2023

Is it?  You forgot to add in a Medigap plan.  Right now, courtesy of TD moving funds before things started falling, I’m paying nearly a $400 surcharge on my Medicare.  Add to this, my Medigap plan is $325/mo.  My prescription plan is $50/mo, and I have a $75 IRMAA charge on this.  I used my prescription plan the first time this month, my meds for my plan are over $250 for a 3 month supply, only one drug was $187…the rest cheap generic which range from $12-50.  It would have cost me LESS to buy my meds without insurance!  I wish I had known, but it pisses me off to pay $125/mo for prescriptions where I can buy them on the open market for less.  

So I am paying $850 for Medicare this year, just for me.  TD gets hit next year, so double this.  Add to this that fewer and fewer doctors accept Medicare.  Also, Medicare will not pay for my ongoing PT….this is OOP for me.  PT keeps me at a status quo, so it’s necessary for me.   

Our income was high, but 95% of it was reinvested so the actual cash amount we saw in day to day living was less.  Next year is going to be ugly too, then it should get better.  

I pay more for insurance, that covers less.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Oct 27, 2022 10:37:03 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Oct 26, 2022 21:52:34 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

And we've discussed IRMAA!

Even with maximum IRMAA, medicare is still reasonably priced insurance!


So even maxing it all out insurance for seniors for only 656.20? 

But wait - there's more good news!

Is it?  You forgot to add in a Medigap plan.  Right now, courtesy of TD moving funds before things started falling, I’m paying nearly a $400 surcharge on my Medicare.  Add to this, my Medigap plan is $325/mo.  My prescription plan is $50/mo, and I have a $75 IRMAA charge on this.  I used my prescription plan the first time this month, my meds for my plan are over $250 for a 3 month supply, only one drug was $187…the rest cheap generic which range from $12-50.  It would have cost me LESS to buy my meds without insurance!  I wish I had known, but it pisses me off to pay $125/mo for prescriptions where I can buy them on the open market for less.  

So I am paying $850 for Medicare this year, just for me.  TD gets hit next year, so double this.  Add to this that fewer and fewer doctors accept Medicare.  Also, Medicare will not pay for my ongoing PT….this is OOP for me.  PT keeps me at a status quo, so it’s necessary for me.   

Our income was high, but 95% of it was reinvested so the actual cash amount we saw in day to day living was less.  Next year is going to be ugly too, then it should get better.  

I pay more for insurance, that covers less.

So, I'm assuming investments throwing off capital gains and such in your taxable account are what did it?   That's what I hate about taxable investments.  They do crap like this that you can't control.  My college kid with little income had 18K in unearned income from a capital gains distribution tacked on out of the blue and owed 2K in taxes.  Money he never got to see and his account value stayed the same (until it then dropped 30% this year).

That's why I'm not opposed to tax-deferred.  At least with the 401K/IRA (or in his case 529), we can control when we pay the taxes.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Oct 27, 2022 11:53:16 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 27, 2022 10:37:03 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Is it?  You forgot to add in a Medigap plan.  Right now, courtesy of TD moving funds before things started falling, I’m paying nearly a $400 surcharge on my Medicare.  Add to this, my Medigap plan is $325/mo.  My prescription plan is $50/mo, and I have a $75 IRMAA charge on this.  I used my prescription plan the first time this month, my meds for my plan are over $250 for a 3 month supply, only one drug was $187…the rest cheap generic which range from $12-50.  It would have cost me LESS to buy my meds without insurance!  I wish I had known, but it pisses me off to pay $125/mo for prescriptions where I can buy them on the open market for less.  

So I am paying $850 for Medicare this year, just for me.  TD gets hit next year, so double this.  Add to this that fewer and fewer doctors accept Medicare.  Also, Medicare will not pay for my ongoing PT….this is OOP for me.  PT keeps me at a status quo, so it’s necessary for me.   

Our income was high, but 95% of it was reinvested so the actual cash amount we saw in day to day living was less.  Next year is going to be ugly too, then it should get better.  

I pay more for insurance, that covers less.

So, I'm assuming investments throwing off capital gains and such in your taxable account are what did it?   That's what I hate about taxable investments.  They do crap like this that you can't control.  My college kid with little income had 18K in unearned income from a capital gains distribution tacked on out of the blue and owed 2K in taxes.  Money he never got to see and his account value stayed the same (until it then dropped 30% this year).

That's why I'm not opposed to tax-deferred.  At least with the 401K/IRA (or in his case 529), we can control when we pay the taxes.  

It was both normal and LT capital gains.  TD's got a friend who has been giving him advice.  This guy's a savant with regards to investments.  TD took the money he made and ran with it, and we got slammed the last couple of years.  I'm embarrassed to say what our MAGI was last year, and I can well afford to pay my insurance costs. 

It's just infuriating that the amount I pay (not accounting for the 35 years I paid into Medicare) I am paying 90% market price for insurance, with worse coverage.  

[Deleted]

Oct 27, 2022 12:15:45 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

It's just infuriating that the amount I pay (not accounting for the 35 years I paid into Medicare) I am paying 90% market price for insurance, with worse coverage.  

I think those of us who maxed out Medicare contributions for decades and are now paying IRMAA surcharges should have a Priority Line at doctor's offices and hospital outpatient clinics, don't you?

I'm gonna drop a note to AARP. I'm sure they'll get right on it.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Oct 27, 2022 10:37:03 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Oct 26, 2022 21:52:34 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

And we've discussed IRMAA!

Even with maximum IRMAA, medicare is still reasonably priced insurance!


So even maxing it all out insurance for seniors for only 656.20? 

But wait - there's more good news!

Is it?  You forgot to add in a Medigap plan.  Right now, courtesy of TD moving funds before things started falling, I’m paying nearly a $400 surcharge on my Medicare.  Add to this, my Medigap plan is $325/mo.  My prescription plan is $50/mo, and I have a $75 IRMAA charge on this.  I used my prescription plan the first time this month, my meds for my plan are over $250 for a 3 month supply, only one drug was $187…the rest cheap generic which range from $12-50.  It would have cost me LESS to buy my meds without insurance!  I wish I had known, but it pisses me off to pay $125/mo for prescriptions where I can buy them on the open market for less.  

So I am paying $850 for Medicare this year, just for me.  TD gets hit next year, so double this.  Add to this that fewer and fewer doctors accept Medicare.  Also, Medicare will not pay for my ongoing PT….this is OOP for me.  PT keeps me at a status quo, so it’s necessary for me.   

Our income was high, but 95% of it was reinvested so the actual cash amount we saw in day to day living was less.  Next year is going to be ugly too, then it should get better.  

I pay more for insurance, that covers less.

Like a whole lot of other americans. I don't understand what you were expecting from medicare? Or what you think is a reasonable amount for some with higher income to pay for medicare?


What would you pay for insurance without medicare? Would it be better?

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Oct 27, 2022 8:59:50 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Oct 26, 2022 21:52:34 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

And we've discussed IRMAA!

Even with maximum IRMAA, medicare is still reasonably priced insurance!


So even maxing it all out insurance for seniors for only 656.20? 

In general, I agree- I was paying $900/month for a plan with a $6K deductible before I got Medicare in 2018. It had doubled over the 4 years since I retired.

BUT... based on SS records, my employers and I paid $180K into Medicare for Part A. Accumulated at 6% interest that would be $317,000. I'm too lazy to look up annuity costs but in general it's considered safe to withdraw 4% per year, increasing every year for inflation, so that's $12,000/year. In short: the money my employers and I have put in, invested reasonably, would have provided another $1,000/month on top of $665/month I'm already paying for B, D, the supplement and IRMAA. So, it's not exactly low-cost.

Believe me I'm grateful to have it. I'm also aware that as a high earner I'm subsidizing the premiums of those who earned less and that the Medicare payroll taxes are pretty much paid out for current beneficiaries' claims as soon as they're collected.

You've got to look at the whole picture.

 ^{that paid for your parents medicare, not yours}

[wvugurl26]

The Walk of the Penguin Mich my mom used to take her husband's scripts for cheap stuff to one pharmacy and tell them he had no insurance. These were ones the grocery store pharmacy advertised as $5 or something like that. She had the other more expensive stuff at a second pharmacy where they ran his insurance.

He hit the donut hole every year so she didn't want to put the cheap stuff towards that.

If they aren't paying that much towards the other drugs look for a cheaper plan at open enrollment. Although the pricing tool never seems to work for me for my grandma. I put in exactly what she takes and 90 day supply at the pharmacy. The monthly costs it spits out never matches in reality.

[TheOtherMe]

I have one prescription my insurance won't cover so I get it elsewhere for a much lesser cost.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Oct 27, 2022 14:09:56 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Oct 27, 2022 10:37:03 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Is it?  You forgot to add in a Medigap plan.  Right now, courtesy of TD moving funds before things started falling, I’m paying nearly a $400 surcharge on my Medicare.  Add to this, my Medigap plan is $325/mo.  My prescription plan is $50/mo, and I have a $75 IRMAA charge on this.  I used my prescription plan the first time this month, my meds for my plan are over $250 for a 3 month supply, only one drug was $187…the rest cheap generic which range from $12-50.  It would have cost me LESS to buy my meds without insurance!  I wish I had known, but it pisses me off to pay $125/mo for prescriptions where I can buy them on the open market for less.  

So I am paying $850 for Medicare this year, just for me.  TD gets hit next year, so double this.  Add to this that fewer and fewer doctors accept Medicare.  Also, Medicare will not pay for my ongoing PT….this is OOP for me.  PT keeps me at a status quo, so it’s necessary for me.   

Our income was high, but 95% of it was reinvested so the actual cash amount we saw in day to day living was less.  Next year is going to be ugly too, then it should get better.  

I pay more for insurance, that covers less.

Like a whole lot of other americans. I don't understand what you were expecting from medicare? Or what you think is a reasonable amount for some with higher income to pay for medicare?


What would you pay for insurance without medicare? Would it be better?

I have spent the last 18 months on COBRA, paying full price for medical insurance.  It is 1000% better.  If I could pay for a comparable policy until the end of my life, I'd prefer that over dealing with Medicare hoops.  Medicare is a clusterf^&* of magnificant proportions.  My previous insurance, Medicare was my primary insurance and my husband's employer paid plan was my secondary.  For 3 years, I bounced between these 2 entities, where Medicare was supposed to pay and Medicare punted off to my employer's company (who had under 100 employees and was not primary payor).  Each said they other was supposed to pay, neither paid and I finally paid almost everything OOP to avoid getting sent to collections.  It took us getting our local state senator on the case to get Medicare to start paying my bills.  Even then, I didn't get back 2/3 of what Medicare was supposed to have paid.  

Not impressed.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Oct 27, 2022 15:52:34 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Oct 27, 2022 14:09:56 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Like a whole lot of other americans. I don't understand what you were expecting from medicare? Or what you think is a reasonable amount for some with higher income to pay for medicare?


What would you pay for insurance without medicare? Would it be better?

I have spent the last 18 months on COBRA, paying full price for medical insurance.  It is 1000% better.  If I could pay for a comparable policy until the end of my life, I'd prefer that over dealing with Medicare hoops.  Medicare is a clusterf^&* of magnificant proportions.  My previous insurance, Medicare was my primary insurance and my husband's employer paid plan was my secondary.  For 3 years, I bounced between these 2 entities, where Medicare was supposed to pay and Medicare punted off to my employer's company (who had under 100 employees and was not primary payor).  Each said they other was supposed to pay, neither paid and I finally paid almost everything OOP to avoid getting sent to collections.  It took us getting our local state senator on the case to get Medicare to start paying my bills.  Even then, I didn't get back 2/3 of what Medicare was supposed to have paid.  

Not impressed.

Sounds more like a coordination of benefits problem.  My aunts and uncles on Medicare all say it's quite good.  My aunt didn't pay anything out of pocket for her cancer treatment and my uncle has had both knees replaced and his spine fused and they said they got almost no bills for any of it.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Oct 27, 2022 16:01:47 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 27, 2022 15:52:34 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I have spent the last 18 months on COBRA, paying full price for medical insurance.  It is 1000% better.  If I could pay for a comparable policy until the end of my life, I'd prefer that over dealing with Medicare hoops.  Medicare is a clusterf^&* of magnificant proportions.  My previous insurance, Medicare was my primary insurance and my husband's employer paid plan was my secondary.  For 3 years, I bounced between these 2 entities, where Medicare was supposed to pay and Medicare punted off to my employer's company (who had under 100 employees and was not primary payor).  Each said they other was supposed to pay, neither paid and I finally paid almost everything OOP to avoid getting sent to collections.  It took us getting our local state senator on the case to get Medicare to start paying my bills.  Even then, I didn't get back 2/3 of what Medicare was supposed to have paid.  

Not impressed.

Sounds more like a coordination of benefits problem.  My aunts and uncles on Medicare all say it's quite good.  My aunt didn't pay anything out of pocket for her cancer treatment and my uncle has had both knees replaced and his spine fused and they said they got almost no bills for any of it.

That's good, but when they are supposed to pay and don't it really sucks.  It took me getting a congressperson involved to get Medicare to pay the bills that they were supposed to pay, even when they admitted they would pay and I needed to get the bills resubmitted.   I would get the bills resubmitted to Medicare and they would get denied.....again.