tractor
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Post by tractor on Sept 8, 2022 16:57:32 GMT -5
My son recently graduated with his degree in Mechanical Engineering from a very well know university for engineering. Due in part to COVID, he was unable to do a co-op or internship while still in school. He had decent grades (3.0), from a very hard school.
Fast forward two months later, after multiple applications, nothing soils has developed yet. He has a head hunter after him who wants to place him at a well known firm on a trial basis. What do you think? I never had to deal with head hunting firms, and don't want to push him into accepting without knowing some of the pit falls, if any. I look forward to your collective wisdom.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Sept 8, 2022 17:03:35 GMT -5
Absolutely!! Head hunters have good contacts and even a trial placement is a great opportunity Very difficult to get that first job, even now Good luck to him!
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Sept 8, 2022 21:01:06 GMT -5
From what I know, headhunters only get paid if it works out, so it's in their interest to make good placements of people. If your son has nothing he's saying no to for this opportunity, it seems to make sense to do it. How long is the trial period?
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minnesotapaintlady
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Sept 8, 2022 23:00:33 GMT -5
Sounds like a good way to get his foot in the door. I can't think of any reason not to take the offer.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Sept 9, 2022 6:52:28 GMT -5
I used a head hunter when I was trying to relocate. Their info on companies and people I was interviewing with was very helpful.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2022 7:11:56 GMT -5
Fast forward two months later, after multiple applications, nothing solid has developed yet. He has a head hunter after him who wants to place him at a well known firm on a trial basis. What do you think? I never had to deal with head hunting firms, and don't want to push him into accepting without knowing some of the pit falls, if any. I look forward to your collective wisdom. I've dealt with headhunters in nearly every career change I've made and they've worked well for me. I should add that my last job change using a headhunter was in 2002, before sites such as Indeed.com, etc. became popular. I don't know how headhunters even get any response by phone or e-mail from HR anymore. What does "trial" mean? Is this a local company or would he have to relocate? Who pays relocation costs and if it doesn't work out, who pays to move him elsewhere? Finally, a cautionary tale. My job search in late 2001/early 2002 was a "get me outta here" search. The small consulting firm where I worked was struggling and I was a single mother with no CS and a big mortgage. I'd been on the hiring side and knew it could get messy if Recruiter A presented a candidate, we didn't bring them in, Recruiter B presented them a month later and we decided to bring them in and make them an offer, and recruiters A and B both claimed the right to be paid a fee. I contacted maybe 5 recruiters, told them it was a multi-recruiter job search and the ground rule was that you do not present me anywhere without getting my consent first. It didn't work. Recruiter A presented me at Company X, with my consent. They were interested and we were going to set up an interview and Recruiter B called and said Company X was interested. He had NOT gotten my agreement beforehand. He whined that he had to do it that way because many employers don't want to be identified unless THEY'RE interested in the candidate. Somehow Recruiter A was able to work around that. I let her know and on her advice I sent the company a letter telling them Recruiter B did not represent me. Later in the search, a recruiter I trusted offered to call one of the major employers and see how many times they'd gotten my resume. I think it was 4 times. I knew about 2 of them. This was late 2001 and it was the NYC area so you can see why it was a tough search. I am ever grateful to the recruiter who found me the opportunity in the Kansas City area.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Sept 9, 2022 7:28:53 GMT -5
Thanks you for all the replies. The way I understand it (he has another interview today), it would be a 9 month assignment, at which point he would either be hired full time, or the recruiter would find him another placement.
The position would be about 2-hours from home, so he would have to move, but being a recent college grad, the first move would be easy (before he acquires any stuff).
It sounds like the recruiter has multiple placements available, but for now he feels my son will fit best at a large pharmaceutical company as a manufacturing engineer. He's not thrilled with the idea...but it's a place to start. I told him not to turn anything down until he gets a chance to see what it's all about. Who knows, he might enjoy it (?).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2022 8:03:43 GMT -5
Thanks you for all the replies. The way I understand it (he has another interview today), it would be a 9 month assignment, at which point he would either be hired full time, or the recruiter would find him another placement. That sounds reasonable as long as it's a reputable employer. GlassDoor.com is a good place to find out what it's like to work for a particular company. One memorable comment I read when researching a Zurich-based firm: "Der Fisch stinkt vom Kopf"- "The fish stinks from the head"). DS started out PT after college- Math degree from a respectable school (Drake) but it took him a couple of years to get his act together so his GPA was iffy. He started out in Customer Service, as the first point of contact when people called with an auto claim, and they did bring him on FT after 6 months. I was skeptical of that part but they gave him a chance and found he was smart and had a good work ethic. He lasted there 10+ years before moving to another company and he's a claims adjuster- so it can work out.
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Sept 9, 2022 8:28:52 GMT -5
Thanks you for all the replies. The way I understand it (he has another interview today), it would be a 9 month assignment, at which point he would either be hired full time, or the recruiter would find him another placement. The position would be about 2-hours from home, so he would have to move, but being a recent college grad, the first move would be easy (before he acquires any stuff). It sounds like the recruiter has multiple placements available, but for now he feels my son will fit best at a large pharmaceutical company as a manufacturing engineer. He's not thrilled with the idea...but it's a place to start. I told him not to turn anything down until he gets a chance to see what it's all about. Who knows, he might enjoy it (?). I agree with you that its a place to start, but no harm asking what the other places are and what are the reasons he is thinking this will be a good fit.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Sept 9, 2022 15:43:48 GMT -5
His interview today went OK, he has another next week. They apparently screen their candidates pretty thoroughly, so it's far from a guarantee. If nothing else, the interview experience will be good for him.
The proposed company has a good reputation, they have been all over the news the past few years due to some new fangled COVID vaccination, they have been around for 100+ years and appear to be well capitalized.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Sept 9, 2022 15:54:23 GMT -5
Thanks you for all the replies. The way I understand it (he has another interview today), it would be a 9 month assignment, at which point he would either be hired full time, or the recruiter would find him another placement. Will he be an employee of the employer he is working for or would he be a "contract employee" for those 9 months? Will have to handle his own Fed/state taxes? will he have to have his own healthcare coverage? If he will be an employee - with health care,etc thru the employer - it sounds like a good plan a kind of 9 month probation versus the typical 3 month one. It may also give him access to other open positions with the employer in 9 months. If he's a "contract employee" you all may want to give some thought to his "budget/spending plan" as he may be required to pay his fed/state taxes in a lump sum. And figure out his healthcare coverage expenses. It will make deciding if the "income" from the job is reasonable or not.
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MarionTh230
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Post by MarionTh230 on Sept 9, 2022 18:04:16 GMT -5
Thanks you for all the replies. The way I understand it (he has another interview today), it would be a 9 month assignment, at which point he would either be hired full time, or the recruiter would find him another placement. The position would be about 2-hours from home, so he would have to move, but being a recent college grad, the first move would be easy (before he acquires any stuff). It sounds like the recruiter has multiple placements available, but for now he feels my son will fit best at a large pharmaceutical company as a manufacturing engineer. He's not thrilled with the idea...but it's a place to start. I told him not to turn anything down until he gets a chance to see what it's all about. Who knows, he might enjoy it (?). I have no experience with head hunters. I got my job because I did multiple co-op semesters with them. I did have a couple of classmates that used head hunters and it seems to worked out well for them. For whatever that is worth. A manufacturing engineer position at a pharmaceutical company does not sound bad. It will depend heavily on the company as well as the specific site he works at. Many a new engineering graduate have made their start as a manufacturing engineer. Has you son articulated why he feels un-thrilled about the position? Obviously not necessary to share with the board - or even for him to share with you - but, to himself at a minimum. At the surface, it sounds like a respectable position to start his career in.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Sept 9, 2022 18:37:59 GMT -5
How are the head hunters paid, when and how much? My cousin used to be a recruiter. I asked her and she said she got the annual salary but not who paid it. I recall when I was a teenager 1960s, my aunt used a recruiter to get a job then quickly quit. She still owed the fee. The recruiter was brassy enough to think my mother was liable for it.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 9, 2022 18:43:20 GMT -5
How are the head hunters paid, when and how much? My cousin used to be a recruiter. I asked her and she said she got the annual salary but not who paid it. I recall when I was a teenager 1960s, my aunt used a recruiter to get a job then quickly quit. She still owed the fee. The recruiter was brassy enough to think my mother was liable for it.
Have no idea what the practice is now. I remember a time when it was somewhere between 15 to 30% of the annual expected salary and the person placed was liable for it if they left in less than 3 months. Not sure how that would work for a 9 mo. posting.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Sept 9, 2022 19:04:51 GMT -5
Headhunters do not require the person to pay. The company pays the headhunter. I’ve both used HH when hiring and have gotten very nice positions from HH. Even as a consultant I’ve obtained very nice and well paid positions. For consulting, the HH usually is paid a percentage of the money I was paid by the company.
Do not use HH that wants payment from you
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Sept 9, 2022 19:36:30 GMT -5
It really sounds like a contract position. Not a bad thing, but a good way to get a start. The person he is talking to likely works for a contracting company, very common in pharma. If he gets selected, he would likely be working for the contracting company for 9 months. If the company offers a full time position, they will pay a fee to contracting company.
I have worked in pharma for 30 years, so know the ins and outs. Pharma has ups and downs, depending on how their products are going. I have an idea where the position is, I know where the jobs are hiring.
Pharma is good pay, good but high pressure work environment. Once you get experience in the industry, you can be on a good career path. I took a job in pharma as it was my only offer, and have been in the industry ever since.
Downside to pharma is that there is very little actual engineering work, just lots of writing documents.
I would say definitely worth a shot, especially without any other options.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 9, 2022 19:42:12 GMT -5
Headhunters do not require the person to pay. The company pays the headhunter. I’ve both used HH when hiring and have gotten very nice positions from HH. Even as a consultant I’ve obtained very nice and well paid positions. For consulting, the HH usually is paid a percentage of the money I was paid by the company. Do not use HH that wants payment from you From my old experience, some headhunters did tell you about a claw back if you left the position early as I think the company that pays them either doesn't pay them or claws back the fee if the person placed leaves in under 3 mos. Wasn't every headhunter, I dealt with but perhaps newer firms or those who got burned too often from candidates they placed. YMMV. So, there is no payment expected unless you quit the position prior to the three-month mark.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 9, 2022 19:45:16 GMT -5
Headhunters do not require the person to pay. The company pays the headhunter. I’ve both used HH when hiring and have gotten very nice positions from HH. Even as a consultant I’ve obtained very nice and well paid positions. For consulting, the HH usually is paid a percentage of the money I was paid by the company. Do not use HH that wants payment from you From my old experience, some headhunters did tell you about a claw back if you left the position early as I think the company that pays them either doesn't pay them or claws back the fee if the person placed leaves in under 3 mos. Wasn't every headhunter, I dealt with but perhaps newer firms or those who got burned too often from candidates they placed. YMMV. So, there is no payment expected unless you quit the position prior to the three-month mark. The employee would have to agree to those terms. All recruiters I've worked with (on both sides) are paid solely for the company regardless of how long the employee stays.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Sept 9, 2022 19:45:52 GMT -5
Also worked in pharma and agree these companies use lots of contract workers. The pay is good and usually people work in teams focusing on a particular drug, either experimental or already approved. Timelines and budgets are critical so good experience for people new to professional employment . Especially for the experimental drugs- time is money Getting a drug approved means it can be sold. Large amounts of money is spent before approval that finally can be justified after approval
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 9, 2022 21:02:10 GMT -5
From my old experience, some headhunters did tell you about a claw back if you left the position early as I think the company that pays them either doesn't pay them or claws back the fee if the person placed leaves in under 3 mos. Wasn't every headhunter, I dealt with but perhaps newer firms or those who got burned too often from candidates they placed. YMMV. So, there is no payment expected unless you quit the position prior to the three-month mark. The employee would have to agree to those terms. All recruiters I've worked with (on both sides) are paid solely for the company regardless of how long the employee stays. Absolutely. I think I only used a headhunter once that required that. So, I was careful to agree to a job that I knew I could last at least three months in.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Sept 9, 2022 21:06:24 GMT -5
Yes on the head hunter. Not so much on "trail run" but that's just me. I've actually started entertaining them within the past few years and have almost doubled my salary.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Sept 9, 2022 22:53:11 GMT -5
If he does lease an apartment - it might be a good idea to really look at the cost of breaking the lease - what happens if after nine months he isn't hired. He may 3 months remaining on the lease - while looking for another job. I'm not saying don't lease - but pay attention to the conditions of the lease so there is no surprise.
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jeffreymo
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Post by jeffreymo on Sept 10, 2022 7:17:04 GMT -5
Yes, but at the same time he should be trying to make LinkedIn contacts with the recruiting team for companies that he wants to work for and also recruiting firms that specialize in his field. Recruiters welcome contacts and don’t scrutinize whether they know the person or not.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Sept 10, 2022 7:23:36 GMT -5
Again, thank you for all the insight. It's a lot for a newly minted graduate to absorb, and I never had to go through anything like this to get hired.
Both my boys have been good about keeping me in the loop and asking questions, your feedback helps me prepare a reasonable answer. I should know more this week, he has already indicated he's willing to give it a try, but it's not the ideal engineering job.
I'm a firm believe that some experience is better than none. He longs to work in the automotive field, and having working knowledge of the basic manufacturing process will apply in any field.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Sept 10, 2022 9:17:56 GMT -5
Again, thank you for all the insight. It's a lot for a newly minted graduate to absorb, and I never had to go through anything like this to get hired. Both my boys have been good about keeping me in the loop and asking questions, your feedback helps me prepare a reasonable answer. I should know more this week, he has already indicated he's willing to give it a try, but it's not the ideal engineering job. I'm a firm believe that some experience is better than none. He longs to work in the automotive field, and having working knowledge of the basic manufacturing process will apply in any field. Do you guys know anyone that works in the field that he wants to be in that could mentor him? I know I've made missteps in job moves in my career and if someone wanted to do what I do, I'd be able to tell them the quickest way to get where I am at a younger age. I'd also be able to tell them the good, bad, and ugly about different roles. If not, is there maybe a social media group he can join? I don't have social media, but there seems to be a Facebook group for just about everything from what people tell me.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Sept 10, 2022 15:49:37 GMT -5
I've never had much luck with recruiters. Got some interviews but nothing solid. One time was sexually harrassed and had to tell the recruiter to withdraw me and tell the hiring manager to never contact me again, which the bozo did continue to do and I had made the recruiting agency aware of that, I think they did help get the guy to stop, but they also never tried to place me again. This was about 20 years ago.
At a later time, worked with a different outfit speciailizing in my area of expertise. The one time it looked like I was about to field an offer working with this recruiter he "prepped" me for the offer by saying there wouldn't be any negotiation, it wasn't like professional football.
The only reason I went through a recruiter was because I recognized my history of being sucky at or not doing negotiation at the offer phase. I was experienced and didn't need any coaching on interviewing, it was actually a company I previously worked for, I was floored and incredibly insulted.
Never used a recruiter again. Forced myself to negotiate witht he offer at my new employer, and then when I got my promotion. Got an additional 3% salary at the offer (asked for 5%) and was offered 10% for the promotion, asked for 14% and got it.
It was very hard for me to do that! But I did and am much richer today for it, lol!
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Sept 10, 2022 18:43:29 GMT -5
Again, thank you for all the insight. It's a lot for a newly minted graduate to absorb, and I never had to go through anything like this to get hired. Both my boys have been good about keeping me in the loop and asking questions, your feedback helps me prepare a reasonable answer. I should know more this week, he has already indicated he's willing to give it a try, but it's not the ideal engineering job. I'm a firm believe that some experience is better than none. He longs to work in the automotive field, and having working knowledge of the basic manufacturing process will apply in any field. Automotive is not hiring a whole lot right now. Aerospace is getting a lot of resumes from their people (this is where I am now). I think right now he'll learn a lot in the manufacturing sector of pharmaceutical. I've been in engineering a long time and have cycled through 4 industries so tell him not to worry about being stuck in pharmaceutical forever. And what I've learned in one sector has been very helpful in my others. Knowing basic manufacturing was the most useful skill I ever learned on a job. Besides how to full-stop a sexist attitude.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Sept 13, 2022 7:07:10 GMT -5
Things are getting interesting/exciting for this dad. He has another interview this week (tomorrow?), however, he also received calls from two other employers asking to set up an interview, one designs nuclear submarines, and the other is an automotive company that responded two days after he submitted his application.
I hope one of these pan out, he's ready to work, just needs an opportunity 😊
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Sept 14, 2022 4:18:52 GMT -5
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Sept 19, 2022 20:25:57 GMT -5
Update time. The headhunter listened to my son and found what they feel might be a better fit at a company that designs tank engines. He has an interview with them tomorrow. I was impressed that the head hunter called him today and ran through a practice interview with him. I think that says a lot about how they do business.
On another front, he had an interview today with a military contractor who designs nuclear submarines. He felt interview went well, hopes to hear back by early next week. This one is a full time position, looking for beginning level engineers, located in an area he wants to live.
I'm having fun living vicariously through him...makes my 30-year career seem boring by comparison.
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