Brittney Griner

[hurley1980]

Again....Viktor Bout was set to be released in 2029....so six years from now.  He was not going to be in prison forever! It was inevitable that he was going to get out and go back to Russia.  

[weltschmerz]

If I was Biden I would have at least asked for the release of Alexei Navalny, with safe passage to Zurich.
But trading the Merchant of Death for a girl who throws a ball into a hoop....well, it stings.

[Opti]

Dec 9, 2022 17:36:06 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

And the price of being released in these cases is quite high. Griner was released in exchange for Bout, who is arguably not only the world’s most infamous arms dealer, but who no doubt will be quite useful to Russian President Vladimir Putin in acquiring weapons on the international arms market for Russia’s war in Ukraine.

www.cnn.com/2022/12/08/opinions/detained-americans-cost-brittney-griner-release-bergen/index.html

You are all very far removed from a war on the other side of the planet, but this is my family and my people. This is why this prisoner exchange is breaking my heart.
Bout's weapons will slaughter my people. I still remember sitting around the bonfires in Berestovenka, eating sunflower seeds, drinking vodka and joining in with the women in singing 6 part harmony. Crying while hugging my uncle, knowing I'd probably never see him again.  Laughing with my grandfather as he tried to teach me how to sew, and he ended up sewing my dress to his wooden laeg and dissolving in gales of laughter. The endless fields of sunflowers.....
I'm crying as I'm writing this.
Fuck.

I'm sorry. I'm glad I wasn't in the position to make this decision nor pressed by professional athletes and her family to do this. I am concerned with the war against Ukraine still going on that Russia very much wanted him back. I am concerned that Russia will press him into service for this war, perhaps doing military supply and logistics. Not too long ago a russian man committed suicide over the impossible task of supplying equipment for the war and his boss knew it was a no-win task, so he went on sick leave and did things to make the buck fall on him. I expect he'll be given the choice of helping with the war effort as payment for his early release or being dead/imprisoned. 

[Opti]

Dec 9, 2022 18:47:41 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

If I was Biden I would have at least asked for the release of Alexei Navalny, with safe passage to Zurich.
But trading the Merchant of Death for a girl who throws a ball into a hoop....well, it stings.

You are guessing though he did not. It's Russia, its Putin. Russia, I expect presented it as a choice of get her back for the Merchant of Death or get no one back.

[Opti]

Dec 9, 2022 7:43:33 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 9, 2022 7:33:31 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

exactly.  the IDEA that minorities would get preferential treatment in this situation is, candidly, ludicrous.

Of course it does. It was all over the press about her being an oppressed black gay woman. This administration did what it all dem administrations do and pander to the votes. Here they got 3 in one shot. Did her sentence fit her crime over here no there probably and I'm sure it was leverage. It wouldn't have hurt to leave her there for another year to soften them up. About the earlier comment about her talking about her oppression I'm not saying it doesn't happen I'm not gay or black but I am a woman and no I don't feel oppressed at all. Anyway now she personally seen what real oppression looks like no fair trial. I'm sure she will make millions on a book deal.

I'm going back to this because I find so illogical. Yes some of the press talked about her experiences as a black gay woman. I'm not sure why you think it had anything to do with this except for some bias that assumes something like this must be so. I'm guessing you meant pander to voters not votes. 

Where you totally lose me from a logic standpoint is assuming that one black gay woman coming back from Russia is a notable plus to Dem voters or black, gay, and women as your three. Being gay in the black community is more of a negative than it is in the white community overall. Being who she is I think its far more likely Biden would lose votes over this than gain them. Unless you can show me there is this big pocket of voters who support gay black women who will now switch from voting Republican or just from this will decide to vote D for the next Presidential election. Really the only thing I think Biden gets is some donation dollars from some athletes that play abroad and related people.

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 9, 2022 18:47:41 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

If I was Biden I would have at least asked for the release of Alexei Navalny, with safe passage to Zurich.
But trading the Merchant of Death for a girl who throws a ball into a hoop....well, it stings.

So your issue isn’t that he was exchanged, but who he was exchanged for? Navalny isn’t an American citizen

[billisonboard]

Dec 9, 2022 19:28:52 GMT -5 Opti said:

Dec 9, 2022 7:43:33 GMT -5 scgal said:

Of course it does. It was all over the press about her being an oppressed black gay woman. This administration did what it all dem administrations do and pander to the votes. Here they got 3 in one shot. Did her sentence fit her crime over here no there probably and I'm sure it was leverage. It wouldn't have hurt to leave her there for another year to soften them up. About the earlier comment about her talking about her oppression I'm not saying it doesn't happen I'm not gay or black but I am a woman and no I don't feel oppressed at all. Anyway now she personally seen what real oppression looks like no fair trial. I'm sure she will make millions on a book deal.

I'm going back to this because I find so illogical. Yes some of the press talked about her experiences as a black gay woman. I'm not sure why you think it had anything to do with this except for some bias that assumes something like this must be so. I'm guessing you meant pander to voters not votes. 

Where you totally lose me from a logic standpoint is assuming that one black gay woman coming back from Russia is a notable plus to Dem voters or black, gay, and women as your three. Being gay in the black community is more of a negative than it is in the white community overall. Being who she is I think its far more likely Biden would lose votes over this than gain them. Unless you can show me there is this big pocket of voters who support gay black women who will now switch from voting Republican or just from this will decide to vote D for the next Presidential election. Really the only thing I think Biden gets is some donation dollars from some athletes that play abroad and related people.

I find the whole "pander to the vote(r)s" thing interesting. I sure as hell expect my elected representatives to pander, i.e. do what I would want them to do, to me.

[weltschmerz]

Dec 9, 2022 19:37:34 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Dec 9, 2022 18:47:41 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

If I was Biden I would have at least asked for the release of Alexei Navalny, with safe passage to Zurich.
But trading the Merchant of Death for a girl who throws a ball into a hoop....well, it stings.

So your issue isn’t that he was exchanged, but who he was exchanged for? Navalny isn’t an American citizen

You think I don't know that?   Regardless, this is a good man rotting away in solitary in a Russian prison. Who's going to bail him out? Certainly not the Russians ...they put him there. He needs someone in his corner. You think only the Russians can play hardball?

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 9, 2022 20:14:37 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 9, 2022 19:37:34 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

So your issue isn’t that he was exchanged, but who he was exchanged for? Navalny isn’t an American citizen

You think I don't know that?   Regardless, this is a good man rotting away in solitary in a Russian prison. Who's going to bail him out? Certainly not the Russians ...they put him there. He needs someone in his corner. You think only the Russians can play hardball?

The problem is this is one sided. We care much more about the people involved here, both their suffering and the mortality. Playing hardball is playing with these people’s lives. You save who you can. I doubt Putin will give up navalny if he wouldn’t give up whelsn. He is far more valuable to him

[billisonboard]

Dec 9, 2022 18:47:41 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

If I was Biden I would have at least asked for the release of Alexei Navalny, with safe passage to Zurich.
But trading the Merchant of Death for a girl who throws a ball into a hoop....well, it stings.

Does Navalny wish for the US to intercede on his behalf and be taken out of his home country?

[weltschmerz]

Dec 9, 2022 21:26:05 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 9, 2022 18:47:41 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

If I was Biden I would have at least asked for the release of Alexei Navalny, with safe passage to Zurich.
But trading the Merchant of Death for a girl who throws a ball into a hoop....well, it stings.

Does Navalny wish for the US to intercede on his behalf and be taken out of his home country?

Beats rotting in solitary.

[billisonboard]

Dec 9, 2022 22:30:36 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Dec 9, 2022 21:26:05 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Does Navalny wish for the US to intercede on his behalf and be taken out of his home country?

Beats rotting in solitary.

I would agree. Would he? He was in Germany after being poisoned and chose to return to Russia (link).

[weltschmerz]

Did you see the documentary? Really eye-opening.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navalny_(film)

[djAdvocate]

Dec 9, 2022 19:28:52 GMT -5 Opti said:

Dec 9, 2022 7:43:33 GMT -5 scgal said:

Of course it does. It was all over the press about her being an oppressed black gay woman. This administration did what it all dem administrations do and pander to the votes. Here they got 3 in one shot. Did her sentence fit her crime over here no there probably and I'm sure it was leverage. It wouldn't have hurt to leave her there for another year to soften them up. About the earlier comment about her talking about her oppression I'm not saying it doesn't happen I'm not gay or black but I am a woman and no I don't feel oppressed at all. Anyway now she personally seen what real oppression looks like no fair trial. I'm sure she will make millions on a book deal.

I'm going back to this because I find so illogical. Yes some of the press talked about her experiences as a black gay woman. I'm not sure why you think it had anything to do with this except for some bias that assumes something like this must be so. I'm guessing you meant pander to voters not votes. 

Where you totally lose me from a logic standpoint is assuming that one black gay woman coming back from Russia is a notable plus to Dem voters or black, gay, and women as your three. Being gay in the black community is more of a negative than it is in the white community overall. Being who she is I think its far more likely Biden would lose votes over this than gain them. Unless you can show me there is this big pocket of voters who support gay black women who will now switch from voting Republican or just from this will decide to vote D for the next Presidential election. Really the only thing I think Biden gets is some donation dollars from some athletes that play abroad and related people.

i wasn't going to say this, but i certainly thought it.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 9, 2022 18:38:10 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Again....Viktor Bout was set to be released in 2029....so six years from now.  He was not going to be in prison forever! It was inevitable that he was going to get out and go back to Russia.  

right.  so his "value" in a swap goes down EVERY YEAR.

[scgal]

Dec 9, 2022 16:29:07 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Dec 9, 2022 16:17:42 GMT -5 scgal said:

Trump has failures as far as leadership the last two dems doesn't even come close to him they are real failures. I can recognise Trumps flaws most obama supporters cannot get their lips off his ass to see his failures

Yeah, whats a little insurrection among friends. I am sure you agree that we should suspend the constitution an install Trump as president.

The idea that you think Trump is better than anyone is so ridiculous that it makes me question your intelligence. All you constitution worshiping conservatives all have nothing to say about his remarks, defend him, or say he didn't mean it.

I don't defend anything I will call him out also. I said many times he shoots his mouth off. At the same time I won't try to twist and misinterpret something that he does just to fit my disapproval either. This whole constitution thing he said is crazy he jumped off the cliff on this one

[scgal]

Dec 9, 2022 16:33:53 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Dec 9, 2022 16:17:42 GMT -5 scgal said:

Trump has failures as far as leadership the last two dems doesn't even come close to him they are real failures. I can recognise Trumps flaws most obama supporters cannot get their lips off his ass to see his failures

Donald Trump is the worst and most corrupt president in American history and the only one to actively try to overthrow democracy here.  But please, go ahead and detail Obama's failures for us.  I'm sure we would be entertained by seeing what you consider to be "failure."


Be advised also that for pretty much everything you try and list, there will be a dozen posters here who can and will give you chapter and verse on why what you say is inaccurate and will tell you what the truth (free of partisan bullsh**) actually is. 

Lets see fast and furious, handling of isis, oh lest not forget ACA

[dondub]

Dec 10, 2022 8:14:33 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 9, 2022 16:33:53 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Donald Trump is the worst and most corrupt president in American history and the only one to actively try to overthrow democracy here.  But please, go ahead and detail Obama's failures for us.  I'm sure we would be entertained by seeing what you consider to be "failure."


Be advised also that for pretty much everything you try and list, there will be a dozen posters here who can and will give you chapter and verse on why what you say is inaccurate and will tell you what the truth (free of partisan bullsh**) actually is. 

Lets see fast and furious, handling of isis, oh lest not forget ACA

The 30 million Americans that acquired health insurance, that didn’t have it before. Sure won’t. Nor will I forget that saves 30,000 lives per year. Are you pro -life?

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 10, 2022 8:06:31 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 9, 2022 16:29:07 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Yeah, whats a little insurrection among friends. I am sure you agree that we should suspend the constitution an install Trump as president.

The idea that you think Trump is better than anyone is so ridiculous that it makes me question your intelligence. All you constitution worshiping conservatives all have nothing to say about his remarks, defend him, or say he didn't mean it.

I don't defend anything I will call him out also. I said many times he shoots his mouth off. At the same time I won't try to twist and misinterpret something that he does just to fit my disapproval either. This whole constitution thing he said is crazy he jumped off the cliff on this one

But you will still vote for someone who thinks we should suspend the constitution and reinstate him if he is the republican nominee. And think he is a better choice than a republican.

So yes, you defend him

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 10, 2022 8:43:24 GMT -5 dondub said:

Dec 10, 2022 8:14:33 GMT -5 scgal said:

Lets see fast and furious, handling of isis, oh lest not forget ACA

The 30 million Americans that acquired health insurance, that didn’t have it before. Sure won’t. Nor will I forget that saves 30,000 lives per year. Are you pro -life?

Don’t bother. She doesn’t care that people die because they don’t have insurance. It doesn’t affect her. They should have planned better

[djAdvocate]

Dec 10, 2022 8:14:33 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 9, 2022 16:33:53 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Donald Trump is the worst and most corrupt president in American history and the only one to actively try to overthrow democracy here.  But please, go ahead and detail Obama's failures for us.  I'm sure we would be entertained by seeing what you consider to be "failure."


Be advised also that for pretty much everything you try and list, there will be a dozen posters here who can and will give you chapter and verse on why what you say is inaccurate and will tell you what the truth (free of partisan bullsh**) actually is. 

Lets see fast and furious, handling of isis, oh lest not forget ACA

Fast and Furious started under W.
ISIS was not handled well.
and the ACA was the only meaningful healthcare reform since WW2.
i agree that it was flawed, but i don't agree that it was not worth doing.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 10, 2022 8:14:33 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 9, 2022 16:33:53 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Donald Trump is the worst and most corrupt president in American history and the only one to actively try to overthrow democracy here.  But please, go ahead and detail Obama's failures for us.  I'm sure we would be entertained by seeing what you consider to be "failure."


Be advised also that for pretty much everything you try and list, there will be a dozen posters here who can and will give you chapter and verse on why what you say is inaccurate and will tell you what the truth (free of partisan bullsh**) actually is. 

Lets see fast and furious, handling of isis, oh lest not forget ACA

Donald Trump Freeing 5,000 Taliban Members Compared to Biden Griner Deal

Critics of the deal that saw basketball star Brittney Griner released from a Russian prison camp in exchange for a notorious arms dealer are being reminded how the Donald Trump administration negotiated the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners.

A number of social media users pointed out how in 2020, the Trump administration negotiated a deal which saw 5,000 Taliban fighters freed in exchange for up to 1,000 Afghan government captives as part of a peace deal between the U.S. and Islamist militants.

After originally rejecting the proposal, then Afghan President Ashraf Ghani eventually went on to free the thousands of Taliban members by August 2020.

In a statement at the time, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said the decision to release the prisoners was "unpopular," but would ultimately pave the way for the war in Afghanistan to end.

Writing on Twitter, Omar Rivero, founder of Occupy Democrats, said: "The same Trumpers who are losing their minds right now because Biden freed a single Russian arms dealer in exchange for the release of WNBA star Brittney Griner didn't say a peep when Trump freed over 5,000 Taliban prisoners. You really can't make this sh*t up..."

Human rights lawyer Qasim Rashid said: "Republicans completely ignored it when Trump released 5,000 Taliban terrorists into Afghanistan—but are now outraged that Biden helped return Brittney Griner to the United States. I can't quite figure out why.

"If you're upset that Biden exchanged an arms dealer for Brittany Griner—but approved Trump releasing 5,000 Taliban terrorists who then took over Afghanistan—stop pretending it's national security you care about," Rashid added.

Lawyer Tristan Snell tweeted: "In late 2018, Trump released Abdul Ghani Baradar, one of the top leaders of the Taliban, along with 5000 other Taliban fighters, in exchange for... *checks notes*... nobody."

One year after the Taliban members were freed, U.S. troops left Afghanistan ahead of the takeover of the country by the Jihadist group.

During the evacuation, a suicide bombing at Kabul airport on August 26, 2021, killed more than 180 people, including 13 U.S. service members.

ISIS-K, a Central Asia affiliate of the Islamic State group (ISIS), claimed responsibility for the attack.

In a briefing on Thursday, Biden said Griner was on her way back to the U.S. following "painstaking and intense negotiations," while promising the administration has "not forgotten about" Whelan.

Donald Trump Freeing 5,000 Taliban Members Compared to Biden Griner Deal

[scgal]

Dec 10, 2022 8:43:24 GMT -5 dondub said:

Dec 10, 2022 8:14:33 GMT -5 scgal said:

Lets see fast and furious, handling of isis, oh lest not forget ACA

The 30 million Americans that acquired health insurance, that didn’t have it before. Sure won’t. Nor will I forget that saves 30,000 lives per year. Are you pro -life?

nope anti abortion

[scgal]

Dec 10, 2022 9:56:41 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 10, 2022 8:14:33 GMT -5 scgal said:

Lets see fast and furious, handling of isis, oh lest not forget ACA

Fast and Furious started under W.
ISIS was not handled well.
and the ACA was the only meaningful healthcare reform since WW2.
i agree that it was flawed, but i don't agree that it was not worth doing.

I think your wrong Fast and Furious was under Obama in his first year he likes to say other wise but that is the truth. Bush had a similar program called wide open receiver.

As far as the aca the flawed system is an understatment. Taxing people because they don't want it is crap (one of the best things Trump did was end that). The high cost associated with it for the middle class was ridicilous. Our health ins went thru the roof when the ACA went into effect. The first year after Trump was in same insurance dropped to the lowest levels my company ever seen. 

[scgal]

Dec 10, 2022 12:03:36 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 10, 2022 8:14:33 GMT -5 scgal said:

Lets see fast and furious, handling of isis, oh lest not forget ACA

Donald Trump Freeing 5,000 Taliban Members Compared to Biden Griner Deal

Critics of the deal that saw basketball star Brittney Griner released from a Russian prison camp in exchange for a notorious arms dealer are being reminded how the Donald Trump administration negotiated the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners.

A number of social media users pointed out how in 2020, the Trump administration negotiated a deal which saw 5,000 Taliban fighters freed in exchange for up to 1,000 Afghan government captives as part of a peace deal between the U.S. and Islamist militants.

After originally rejecting the proposal, then Afghan President Ashraf Ghani eventually went on to free the thousands of Taliban members by August 2020.

In a statement at the time, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said the decision to release the prisoners was "unpopular," but would ultimately pave the way for the war in Afghanistan to end.

Writing on Twitter, Omar Rivero, founder of Occupy Democrats, said: "The same Trumpers who are losing their minds right now because Biden freed a single Russian arms dealer in exchange for the release of WNBA star Brittney Griner didn't say a peep when Trump freed over 5,000 Taliban prisoners. You really can't make this sh*t up..."

Human rights lawyer Qasim Rashid said: "Republicans completely ignored it when Trump released 5,000 Taliban terrorists into Afghanistan—but are now outraged that Biden helped return Brittney Griner to the United States. I can't quite figure out why.

"If you're upset that Biden exchanged an arms dealer for Brittany Griner—but approved Trump releasing 5,000 Taliban terrorists who then took over Afghanistan—stop pretending it's national security you care about," Rashid added.

Lawyer Tristan Snell tweeted: "In late 2018, Trump released Abdul Ghani Baradar, one of the top leaders of the Taliban, along with 5000 other Taliban fighters, in exchange for... *checks notes*... nobody."

One year after the Taliban members were freed, U.S. troops left Afghanistan ahead of the takeover of the country by the Jihadist group.

During the evacuation, a suicide bombing at Kabul airport on August 26, 2021, killed more than 180 people, including 13 U.S. service members.

ISIS-K, a Central Asia affiliate of the Islamic State group (ISIS), claimed responsibility for the attack.

In a briefing on Thursday, Biden said Griner was on her way back to the U.S. following "painstaking and intense negotiations," while promising the administration has "not forgotten about" Whelan.

Donald Trump Freeing 5,000 Taliban Members Compared to Biden Griner Deal

OMG he didn't release 5000 we didn't detain them. He was helping set up the peace talks. Talk about twisting the facts to fit your narrative. Nobody has been more terrorist friendly than Obama

[billisonboard]

Blip.

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 10, 2022 13:30:12 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 10, 2022 8:43:24 GMT -5 dondub said:

The 30 million Americans that acquired health insurance, that didn’t have it before. Sure won’t. Nor will I forget that saves 30,000 lives per year. Are you pro -life?

nope anti abortion

that explains your lack of caring about people who are actually alive

[tallguy]

Dec 10, 2022 14:00:58 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 10, 2022 9:56:41 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Fast and Furious started under W.
ISIS was not handled well.
and the ACA was the only meaningful healthcare reform since WW2.
i agree that it was flawed, but i don't agree that it was not worth doing.

I think your wrong Fast and Furious was under Obama in his first year he likes to say other wise but that is the truth. Bush had a similar program called wide open receiver.

As far as the aca the flawed system is an understatment. Taxing people because they don't want it is crap (one of the best things Trump did was end that). The high cost associated with it for the middle class was ridicilous. Our health ins went thru the roof when the ACA went into effect. The first year after Trump was in same insurance dropped to the lowest levels my company ever seen. 

Yes, there were several similar operations run out of the same Phoenix ATF office, led by the same people.  It is logical to assume that if they were allowed under the Bush administration that they believed they would also be allowed to do the same things under the Obama administration.  Bill Newell, the Special Agent in Charge, is on record however saying that there is no evidence that Eric Holder knew about it.  If his Attorney General did not know about it, it is logical to assume that President Obama did not know about it.  What is not in dispute is that the Obama administration put an end to it.

With regard to the ACA, you are ignoring or obscuring several facts.  Anecdotally, it is possible that you indeed were hurt a bit by it.  Tens of millions were helped.  That is not in dispute.  This is an area where Obama's attempts to collaborate and cooperate with Republicans resulted in a worse bill being passed.  You cannot logically blame Obama for that though.  If conservatives would have engaged on trying to do something good for the American people instead of uniting merely to deny Obama credit for a tremendously positive result, we would all have been better off.  The ACA was not the best bill that could have been crafted.  It WAS the best bill that could have passed.  And conservatives STILL were not finished, preferring to try and undo it by sabotage.  Instead of working with the plan to benefit their states, many red-state governors refused to expand Medicaid, condemning their poorer citizens to lower levels of care and/or death due to lack of care.  When trying to apportion blame for the ACA not being good enough, Democrats have a lot of company.  Republicans certainly deserve their share.  Insurance companies are due a healthy portion as well.  There is more, including that the whole plan was based on a conservative plan that had been created and adopted in Massachusetts, and which Republicans promptly turned their backs on, but what I have written already should be sufficient.       

[pulmonarymd]

I addition, the lack of Medicaid expansion in red states have had a negative effect on rural hospital finances, and has a direct effect on the closures that have happened, exacerbating issues with access to care. But hey, if they don’t care their hospitals are closing, why should we

[dondub]

Dec 10, 2022 13:30:12 GMT -5 scgal said:

Dec 10, 2022 8:43:24 GMT -5 dondub said:

The 30 million Americans that acquired health insurance, that didn’t have it before. Sure won’t. Nor will I forget that saves 30,000 lives per year. Are you pro -life?

nope anti abortion

Typical. To hell with those already alive and then dying due to lack of access to healthcare . The peer reviewed study out of Harvard correlated 1,000 deaths per 1,000,000 without insurance. The ACA has cumulatively saved well over two million lives. So go ahead and be anti abortion all you want. Exposure has occurred.