Kansas voting results

[tallguy]

Kansas is the first state to vote on abortion rights since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade.  In a state that went for Donald Trump by 15 points in 2020, which has a better than 2:1 ratio of Republicans to Democrats in both houses of their state legislature, and which only has a Democratic governor because Republicans ran perennial nutjob Kris Kobach against her, the people are refusing to amend the state constitution to remove abortion rights protections by a roughly 62-38 margin at this point with 79% of the vote counted.  If this margin holds, it will be a stinging rebuke to the anti-abortionists who claim that the people are on their side and that it was only a bad decision fifty years ago that allowed abortion in this country.

I don't have a position on abortion in my personal and private life, other than that I am very glad that the issue never touched my life.  My public and political position is that it must be allowed in a free society.  Good for Kansas, and apparently a significant number of conservatives there, who seem to agree. 

[djAdvocate]

Aug 2, 2022 21:53:40 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Kansas is the first state to vote on abortion rights since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade.  In a state that went for Donald Trump by 15 points in 2020, which has a better than 2:1 ratio of Republicans to Democrats in both houses of their state legislature, and which only has a Democratic governor because Republicans ran perennial nutjob Kris Kobach against her, the people are refusing to amend the state constitution to remove abortion rights protections by a roughly 62-38 margin at this point with 79% of the vote counted.  If this margin holds, it will be a stinging rebuke to the anti-abortionists who claim that the people are on their side and that it was only a bad decision fifty years ago that allowed abortion in this country.

I don't have a position on abortion in my personal and private life, other than that I am very glad that the issue never touched my life.  My public and political position is that it must be allowed in a free society.  Good for Kansas, and apparently a significant number of conservatives there, who seem to agree. 

i was astounded that they ran Kobach.  for those of you that don't know, that is the same dumbass that fought for voter ID and claimed that Kansas was full of fraud before Trump was even considering running for president.  he was also a guy that went "all in" on the Obama citizenship thing.  in other words, he was pretty Trumpy before Trump, and he might serve as a useful example of where Trump will end up.

as to your second comment, this result would almost be identical to national polling on the subject.  Americans don't want state legislatures deciding this issue, because they are MORE CONSERVATIVE than the public as a whole.  i think the referendum method would be useful for deciding this and keeping it OUT of the hands of legislatures.  in fact, it might be useful for deciding a whole slate of issues that we are currently plagued with.

[djAdvocate]

PS- i was surprised by this result, but i shouldn't have been.
i was only surprised because i have learned to expect the worst.

[djAdvocate]

this should scare the shit out of the GOP.
they are absolutely on the wrong side of this issue.
and Democrats have a super viable way to get turnout, now.
all they have to do is promise legislation to protect abortion rights.

[tallguy]

Aug 3, 2022 0:15:50 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

PS- i was surprised by this result, but i shouldn't have been.
i was only surprised because i have learned to expect the worst.

I was surprised.  There apparently was not a lot of polling on the issue, but what was there was apparently 47-43 in favor.  The Republicans also purposefully placed it on the primary ballot because historically the turnout is much lower than in a general election, and they were banking on that to help them win.  This result does most certainly show how motivating this issue is for voters, and it may very well turn out in the end that ending Roe v. Wade protections was the worst thing that could happen for anti-abortion forces.  A rogue Supreme Court is not likely to be able to protect them from voters' anger.  Winning the battle and losing the war SHOULD cause social conservatives to stop fighting the battles, but it won't.  Stupid people do stupid things all the time, and doubling down is right in their wheelhouse.     

[djAdvocate]

Aug 3, 2022 0:34:16 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Aug 3, 2022 0:15:50 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

PS- i was surprised by this result, but i shouldn't have been.
i was only surprised because i have learned to expect the worst.

I was surprised.  There apparently was not a lot of polling on the issue, but what was there was apparently 47-43 in favor.  The Republicans also purposefully placed it on the primary ballot because historically the turnout is much lower than in a general election, and they were banking on that to help them win.  This result does most certainly show how motivating this issue is for voters, and it may very well turn out in the end that ending Roe v. Wade protections was the worst thing that could happen for anti-abortion forces.  A rogue Supreme Court is not likely to be able to protect them from voters' anger.  Winning the battle and losing the war SHOULD cause social conservatives to stop fighting the battles, but it won't.  Stupid people do stupid things all the time, and doubling down is right in their wheelhouse.     

there was some speculation about this shortly after the ruling came down, but it was blithely ignored.  and that ARROGANCE convinced me that we were truly fucked.  now, i am not so sure.  i mean, we still MIGHT be fucked.  don't get me wrong.  but i am not so sure of it, now.

[tcu2003]

As someone who voted NO on this constitutional amendment, I was surprised by how large the margin was. I was cautiously optimistic it would fail, but still worried. I live in one of the bluest parts of the state, and saw more “Value them Both” signs than I expected. And I knew that my area needed to vote NO in a big way.

The Kansas legislature and Catholic Church who by and large funded this played dirty with this entire amendment. It definitely serves them right that it failed, though I expect them to try again in the future.

Also - so excited by how many people voted!

[andi9899]

Aug 3, 2022 1:10:46 GMT -5 tcu2003 said:

As someone who voted NO on this constitutional amendment, I was surprised by how large the margin was. I was cautiously optimistic it would fail, but still worried. I live in one of the bluest parts of the state, and saw more “Value them Both” signs than I expected. And I knew that my area needed to vote NO in a big way.

The Kansas legislature and Catholic Church who by and large funded this played dirty with this entire amendment. It definitely serves them right that it failed, though I expect them to try again in the future.

Also - so excited by how many people voted!

Ditto all this. I was also very surprised at how many signs I saw to value them both and the lack of vote no signs. Especially in this area. The mind games the right and church tried playing to confuse people was also insane. I was so hoping this would fail too. I'm glad it did.

I will be having a conversation with my mother who asked my nephew to "vote yes for grandma." I'm always telling her that if she has such strong opinions about something she should get off her ass and vote.

[happyhoix]

Aug 3, 2022 0:34:16 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Aug 3, 2022 0:15:50 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

PS- i was surprised by this result, but i shouldn't have been.
i was only surprised because i have learned to expect the worst.

I was surprised.  There apparently was not a lot of polling on the issue, but what was there was apparently 47-43 in favor.  The Republicans also purposefully placed it on the primary ballot because historically the turnout is much lower than in a general election, and they were banking on that to help them win.  This result does most certainly show how motivating this issue is for voters, and it may very well turn out in the end that ending Roe v. Wade protections was the worst thing that could happen for anti-abortion forces.  A rogue Supreme Court is not likely to be able to protect them from voters' anger.  Winning the battle and losing the war SHOULD cause social conservatives to stop fighting the battles, but it won't.  Stupid people do stupid things all the time, and doubling down is right in their wheelhouse.     

Don’t worry. The far right is planning a constitutional convention to rewrite the constitution and make us a far right theological dictatorship.

Then it won’t matter what voters think. Plus the deviants like the pro choicers and trans and gays and Jews will be exiled or killed.

[happyhoix]

Aug 3, 2022 1:10:46 GMT -5 tcu2003 said:

As someone who voted NO on this constitutional amendment, I was surprised by how large the margin was. I was cautiously optimistic it would fail, but still worried. I live in one of the bluest parts of the state, and saw more “Value them Both” signs than I expected. And I knew that my area needed to vote NO in a big way.

The Kansas legislature and Catholic Church who by and large funded this played dirty with this entire amendment. It definitely serves them right that it failed, though I expect them to try again in the future.

Also - so excited by how many people voted!

I think this was not a pro choice win but a pro- government should not be making this decision for women vote.

Hopefully people have paid attention to the talk around the pregnant 10 year old rape victim who should be forced to carry the baby to term, and how women having miscarriages are left for days in agony while hospitals try to figure out if a D&C is an abortion or not. These should be medical choices, not legislative.

[billisonboard]

Aug 3, 2022 7:15:15 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Aug 3, 2022 1:10:46 GMT -5 tcu2003 said:

As someone who voted NO on this constitutional amendment, I was surprised by how large the margin was. I was cautiously optimistic it would fail, but still worried. I live in one of the bluest parts of the state, and saw more “Value them Both” signs than I expected. And I knew that my area needed to vote NO in a big way.

The Kansas legislature and Catholic Church who by and large funded this played dirty with this entire amendment. It definitely serves them right that it failed, though I expect them to try again in the future.

Also - so excited by how many people voted!

I think this was not a pro choice win but a pro- government should not be making this decision for women vote.

Hopefully people have paid attention to the talk around the pregnant 10 year old rape victim who should be forced to carry the baby to term, and how women having miscarriages are left for days in agony while hospitals try to figure out if a D&C is an abortion or not. These should be medical choices, not legislative.

I always thought "pro choice" was a quick way to say "government should not be making this decision for women." Reads like you are saying they are different. I'm confused.

[tallguy]

Aug 3, 2022 8:26:07 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 3, 2022 7:15:15 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I think this was not a pro choice win but a pro- government should not be making this decision for women vote.

Hopefully people have paid attention to the talk around the pregnant 10 year old rape victim who should be forced to carry the baby to term, and how women having miscarriages are left for days in agony while hospitals try to figure out if a D&C is an abortion or not. These should be medical choices, not legislative.

I always thought "pro choice" was a quick way to say "government should not be making this decision for women." Reads like you are saying they are different. I'm confused.

Not the only one....  

"Pro-choice" is a quick way to say that NOBODY should be making the decision for ANYBODY else (preferably, though not exclusively, in consultation with her partner and her doctor.)  Government should only be involved to protect the right of the woman to make whatever choice she feels right for her.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 3, 2022 1:10:46 GMT -5 tcu2003 said:

As someone who voted NO on this constitutional amendment, I was surprised by how large the margin was. I was cautiously optimistic it would fail, but still worried. I live in one of the bluest parts of the state, and saw more “Value them Both” signs than I expected. And I knew that my area needed to vote NO in a big way.

The Kansas legislature and Catholic Church who by and large funded this played dirty with this entire amendment. It definitely serves them right that it failed, though I expect them to try again in the future.

Also - so excited by how many people voted!

it is going to be way closer than the early voting, which was 30%.  it will probably end up more like 15%.  but that is significant, in Kansas.

[happyhoix]

Aug 3, 2022 8:26:07 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 3, 2022 7:15:15 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I think this was not a pro choice win but a pro- government should not be making this decision for women vote.

Hopefully people have paid attention to the talk around the pregnant 10 year old rape victim who should be forced to carry the baby to term, and how women having miscarriages are left for days in agony while hospitals try to figure out if a D&C is an abortion or not. These should be medical choices, not legislative.

I always thought "pro choice" was a quick way to say "government should not be making this decision for women." Reads like you are saying they are different. I'm confused.

I’m sensitive about’pro choice’ because in my state that = ‘I’m a baby killer’ to the GOP voters. I know that’s nonsense but that’s how it gets spun locally.

I think to make headway in my neck of the woods it has to be stated as being for the right for people to make their own medical decisions for the themselves and their underage daughters- and not rely on politicians and government minions to make important decisions for them. Plenty of anti- government sentiment here.

[haapai]

I'm heartened by the results but afraid that the result might have been a bit of a one-off. 

The anti-abortion crowd was asking voters for carte blanc.  Please repeal all state constitutional protections for abortion rights and trust us (we have a supermajority) to write a nicer law.  Voters who had no idea what the GOP-dominated legislature would pass, and even if they'd tried to promise something, it wouldn't have meant spit.  Voters who had every reason to fear Texas-style bounties and bans on terminating ectopic pregnancies, wisely voted "Hell no". 

This is good news for states that have language in their state constitutions that protect abortion rights.  Those rights are unlikely to be repealed by referendum due to the uncertainty of what will replace them.

It doesn't do much for the citizens of my state, though.  Sooner or later, the temporary restraining order that prevents a pre-Roe law from being enforced will fall and we'll be back to 1931. 

[djAdvocate]

Aug 3, 2022 14:23:02 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Aug 3, 2022 8:26:07 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I always thought "pro choice" was a quick way to say "government should not be making this decision for women." Reads like you are saying they are different. I'm confused.

I’m sensitive about’pro choice’ because in my state that = ‘I’m a baby killer’ to the GOP voters. I know that’s nonsense but that’s how it gets spun locally.

I think to make headway in my neck of the woods it has to be stated as being for the right for people to make their own medical decisions for the themselves and their underage daughters- and not rely on politicians and government minions to make important decisions for them. Plenty of anti- government sentiment here.

you could have gone into politics.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 3, 2022 17:17:37 GMT -5 haapai said:

I'm heartened by the results but afraid that the result might have been a bit of a one-off. . 

i'm not as concerned, for two reason.

the first is....Kansas.

the second is that this is actually fairly reflective of the national mood on this issue.  i know it is hard to feel that when you are getting chased around by middle aged women bearing crosses, but it is true.