End Child Poverty

[djAdvocate]

our child poverty rate is among the highest of any developed nation.  food insecurity is a REAL problem here, unlike the fake border crisis and any of a thousand other things that routinely draw our attention on the board.

this problem would be EASY to fix, if we had the heart for it.  we are talking about a dollar per day for 15M kids, or about 5 billion dollars.  that is about 2.5 days of military spending.

i have complained on this board repeatedly that our priorities are messed up, when we spend 2x what our nearest competitor spends on our military, yet we are blessed with friendly neighbors and secure borders, including not one but TWO oceans.  we have no need for even an AVERAGE military, yet we spend 70% more on GDP basis than average.

the GOP talks about being family oriented, about caring about kids.  how caring is it to let one in seven go hungry?  not very.

comments?

equitablegrowth.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/fig2-2-1080x762.png

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Feeding kids doesn't make money for corporations, but the military complex makes them money hand over fist?

[happyhoix]

I agree. We need all the capable, well adjusted, well educated citizens we can get to succeed as a country. To get them, we need to make sure ALL our kids have enough to eat, good healthcare, and access to a good education, including affordable college fees.

Not every kid has a high potential, but we need to make sure every kid with high potential gets the opportunity to succeed - we can’t afford to loose any.

Unfortunately in this country we are short sighted, not wanting to spend any tax payer money on kids because they think getting free anything will encourage adults to have a bunch of kids they can’t support- but forgetting those kids could be the doctors and business owners and engineers who keep the economy churning through the next generation, given half a chance.

[Value Buy]

Why does mass media and even local news report families with food insecurities continue to report the problem is growing, not decreasing in America?
I see this report is from 2019 based on  the page you posted. I imagine the need as grown since then especialy with the pandemic and inflation going on now.

I actually do participate working as a volunteer at a large foodbank here in SWFL while down here. It is sort of depressing but is rewarding at the same time. There is a huge need. When I was working due to my job in retail sales I worked with the local foodbank on food donations as well as setting up procedures, buying product from local stores at as low of a price for the food bank as possible. 
Unfortunately probably 20 to 25% of the need is self inflicted by the parents lifestyles.........and until that changes, what the government and civilians involved in reducing poverty inflicted by the parent's actions the need will not change enough.......
Lack of a decent education, drugs, and mental illness by parents create a huge need in child poverty and food need.

I agree about the military industrial complex for the most part.
800 MILLION DOLLARS IN MILITARY AID to Ukraine showing footage of the weapons being sent shows just how much money is spent on weaponry.......we know this has to be less than one percent of what we have in storage, as well as planes and rockets, etc which are not part of the aid........ 

(I am not complaing about the aid--they need that and more, just pointing out we have no clue what our government spends money on plus whatever else is spent funding unnecessary things)

[happyhoix]

Yes, lack of education, drug abuse and mental illness cause child poverty.

It also creates another generation that are very likely to be drug addicted, have MH issues and to be poorly educated.

We either need to provide drug rehab, MH assistance and adult education opportunities to the parents or remove kids from these subpar home conditions and give them a safe and stable place to live (not sure the current foster program is cutting it).

Continuing to shrug and blame it on the parents isn’t working - we continue to loose capable adults.

Providing free healthcare, including drug rehab and MH help, would be a significant step forward.

[djAdvocate]

part of me thinks that there are an army of elites that pine for the days of indentured servants to feed, clothe and do their chores for them.  so starving people and herding them into low success environments is good for them.

but that would just be plain evil, right?

[Tennesseer]

Apr 18, 2022 7:37:59 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Why does mass media and even local news report families with food insecurities continue to report the problem is growing, not decreasing in America?
I see this report is from 2019 based on  the page you posted. I imagine the need as grown since then especialy with the pandemic and inflation going on now.

I actually do participate working as a volunteer at a large foodbank here in SWFL while down here. It is sort of depressing but is rewarding at the same time. There is a huge need. When I was working due to my job in retail sales I worked with the local foodbank on food donations as well as setting up procedures, buying product from local stores at as low of a price for the food bank as possible. 
Unfortunately probably 20 to 25% of the need is self inflicted by the parents lifestyles.........and until that changes, what the government and civilians involved in reducing poverty inflicted by the parent's actions the need will not change enough.......
Lack of a decent education, drugs, and mental illness by parents create a huge need in child poverty and food need.

I agree about the military industrial complex for the most part.
800 BILLION DOLLARS IN MILITARY AID to Ukraine showing footage of the weapons being sent shows just how much money is spent on weaponry.......we know this has to be less than one percent of what we have in storage, as well as planes and rockets, etc which are not part of the aid........ 

(I am not complaing about the aid--they need that and more, just pointing out we have no clue what our government spends money on plus whatever else is spent funding unnecessary things)

800 billion or 800 million?

U.S. gives Ukraine $800 million more in military aid, adds heavy weapons

[Value Buy]

Apr 18, 2022 10:25:37 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

part of me thinks that there are an army of elites that pine for the days of indentured servants to feed, clothe and do their chores for them.  so starving people and herding them into low success environments is good for them.

but that would just be plain evil, right?

Hmmn, sounds like democrats (army of elites) and the masses at the border (indentured servants) coming in from south and central America......gotta refill the servant class because our lower class was shrinking in population as they moved up the economic ladder

[Value Buy]

Apr 18, 2022 7:10:38 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

Feeding kids doesn't make money for corporations, but the military complex makes them money hand over fist?

Not sure if you are being sarcastic, but the food industry is doing fine with feeding the poor.
There is a reason cookies, potato chips/snacks, and soda are allowed on the snap program.

[djAdvocate]

800 million is less than i am talking about here.
and start a Ukraine thread if it pisses you off.
this is about our budget priorities.
Ukraine aid is an off budget item.

i would like to have the TRILLION DOLLARS we spent fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq back, please, if you want to go "off budget" with me.  those wars did absolutely NOTHING for us.

meanwhile, 15 million AMERICAN KIDS go hungry every day.
what kind of sick, misguided sense of priorities is that?

[djAdvocate]

PS- i don't want your individual participation, for the record.  i want our COLLECTIVE participation in solving this COLLECTIVE problem.

[dondub]

Apr 18, 2022 10:37:19 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

800 million is less than i am talking about here.
and start a Ukraine thread if it pisses you off.
this is about our budget priorities.
Ukraine aid is an off budget item.

i would like to have the TRILLION DOLLARS we spent fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq back, please, if you want to go "off budget" with me.  those wars did absolutely NOTHING for us.

meanwhile, 15 million AMERICAN KIDS go hungry every day.
what kind of sick, misguided sense of priorities is that?

6 Trillion!

[happyhoix]

Apr 18, 2022 10:25:37 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

part of me thinks that there are an army of elites that pine for the days of indentured servants to feed, clothe and do their chores for them.  so starving people and herding them into low success environments is good for them.

but that would just be plain evil, right?

I work in a small city with the highest per capita number of kids in private schools. The public schools are always struggling for funds. I work with a guy from one of old, wealthy families in town, And when I complained to him about how my sons PTA was having to raise money for things I thought the county should pay for he said public schools in that county would never get the support they needed because so many upper middle class people sent their kids to private schools, and the county realized they would need a fair number of poorly educated people to fill the burgeoning tourist industry in the city.

And yes, I consider it evil to refuse to provide enough tax revenue to create good public schools because your own kids don’t go there and you want a good source of minimum wage employees. But it happens.

[Value Buy]

Apr 18, 2022 13:15:30 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Apr 18, 2022 10:25:37 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

part of me thinks that there are an army of elites that pine for the days of indentured servants to feed, clothe and do their chores for them.  so starving people and herding them into low success environments is good for them.

but that would just be plain evil, right?

I work in a small city with the highest per capita number of kids in private schools. The public schools are always struggling for funds. I work with a guy from one of old, wealthy families in town, And when I complained to him about how my sons PTA was having to raise money for things I thought the county should pay for he said public schools in that county would never get the support they needed because so many upper middle class people sent their kids to private schools, and the county realized they would need a fair number of poorly educated people to fill the burgeoning tourist industry in the city.

And yes, I consider it evil to refuse to provide enough tax revenue to create good public schools because your own kids don’t go there and you want a good source of minimum wage employees. But it happens.

Are we talking a city district, or a county wide district? I believe you referenced a city system.....Regardless, it is the school district that sets the amount needed to run the system, then either the city council or county council sets the final amount determining the tax rate. Unless the rich citizens control the process  and boards, or the area is so poor money wise the rich should not be able to underfund the school system. In fact most economically wealthy citizens prefer a strong school sysem for the good of the community.

I grew up in a middle income town that promoted and valued a great school system. The city we live in now is probably considered a well above average income city for the same state and everyone makes sure the school system is well funded as they agree a well educated youth is the best for everyone. I understand if it is city or twon that is slowly dieing economically speaking, the school system can fall on hard times unless the statesteps in with funds.

[kadee79]

Apr 18, 2022 10:31:29 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Apr 18, 2022 7:10:38 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

Feeding kids doesn't make money for corporations, but the military complex makes them money hand over fist?

Not sure if you are being sarcastic, but the food industry is doing fine with feeding the poor.
There is a reason cookies, potato chips/snacks, and soda are allowed on the snap program.

Originally, none of that was allowed on food stamps, now SNAP!  I know, I was working in a grocery store when food stamps came into existence.   BUT, slowly those GOP CEOs of the snack industry companies got things changed...just like now even some hot meals (fast food & other already prepared meals) are also now allowed.  
It's the same as always..."FOLLOW THE MONEY"!

[billisonboard]

Apr 18, 2022 14:47:14 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Apr 18, 2022 13:15:30 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I work in a small city with the highest per capita number of kids in private schools. The public schools are always struggling for funds. I work with a guy from one of old, wealthy families in town, And when I complained to him about how my sons PTA was having to raise money for things I thought the county should pay for he said public schools in that county would never get the support they needed because so many upper middle class people sent their kids to private schools, and the county realized they would need a fair number of poorly educated people to fill the burgeoning tourist industry in the city.

And yes, I consider it evil to refuse to provide enough tax revenue to create good public schools because your own kids don’t go there and you want a good source of minimum wage employees. But it happens.

Are we talking a city district, or a county wide district? I believe you referenced a city system.....Regardless, it is the school district that sets the amount needed to run the system, then either the city council or county council sets the final amount determining the tax rate. Unless the rich citizens control the process  and boards, or the area is so poor money wise the rich should not be able to underfund the school system. In fact most economically wealthy citizens prefer a strong school sysem for the good of the community.

I grew up in a middle income town that promoted and valued a great school system. The city we live in now is probably considered a well above average income city for the same state and everyone makes sure the school system is well funded as they agree a well educated youth is the best for everyone. I understand if it is city or twon that is slowly dieing economically speaking, the school system can fall on hard times unless the statesteps in with funds.

You might be spot on for a particular area and/or state. But you are totally inaccurate on how schools are funded in the state of Washington.

[teen persuasion]

Apr 18, 2022 14:47:14 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Apr 18, 2022 13:15:30 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I work in a small city with the highest per capita number of kids in private schools. The public schools are always struggling for funds. I work with a guy from one of old, wealthy families in town, And when I complained to him about how my sons PTA was having to raise money for things I thought the county should pay for he said public schools in that county would never get the support they needed because so many upper middle class people sent their kids to private schools, and the county realized they would need a fair number of poorly educated people to fill the burgeoning tourist industry in the city.

And yes, I consider it evil to refuse to provide enough tax revenue to create good public schools because your own kids don’t go there and you want a good source of minimum wage employees. But it happens.

Are we talking a city district, or a county wide district? I believe you referenced a city system.....Regardless, it is the school district that sets the amount needed to run the system, then either the city council or county council sets the final amount determining the tax rate. Unless the rich citizens control the process  and boards, or the area is so poor money wise the rich should not be able to underfund the school system. In fact most economically wealthy citizens prefer a strong school sysem for the good of the community.

I grew up in a middle income town that promoted and valued a great school system. The city we live in now is probably considered a well above average income city for the same state and everyone makes sure the school system is well funded as they agree a well educated youth is the best for everyone. I understand if it is city or twon that is slowly dieing economically speaking, the school system can fall on hard times unless the statesteps in with funds.

That's not even remotely close to how it works in NY.

There are no countywide school districts.  There's IIRC 5 big city districts across the state that are the exception to the normal system for all the other districts.  The city districts are often quite poor, likely because they are at the mercy of city funding control, though there's the question of how strongly linked educational outcomes and demographics are.  Wealthy suburbs have wealthy school districts, because they are primarily funded by property taxes.

There's another component to school funding, coming from the state, that's recognised as being unfairly skewed towards wealthier districts, so it's a double whammy for poor areas.  It's meant to be proportional, but the large divergence between Upstate and Downstate incomes/property values skews things, again.  Despite courts finding it unfair, the governor and state legislature haven't fixed it, so local districts have little control over anything but their school tax based on property rates portion - the state can, and has, withheld (or summarily cut) it's mandated portion of school funding.  Even the property tax portion is under the thumb of the state - the governor created a tax cap: school property taxes cannot rise more than 2% or the inflation rate (as decided by, you guessed it, the state), whichever is smaller.  Built-in staff wage increases (contracts) alone eat up any tax cap increases each year; there's nothing left for tech investments, unusual expenses like the pandemic demanded, upgrades or major repairs. 


Or our favorites - unfunded state mandates; the local news has been reporting for days about the state regs just put in place requiring all school buses be electric by 2035 IIRC.  Great idea to combat climate change, but logistically every school district has to replace its entire bus fleet.  Hmm.  Is there even an electric school bus maker?  Do they produce enough to blanket all of NY, plus any other state that follows suit?  What about the cost differential?  Nobody budgeted  for complete replacement of their fleet.  What is the lifespan of a school bus, anyway?

[Tiny]

What is the lifespan of a school bus, anyway?
Because I went down the rabbit hole of people buying old school buses and converting them into "campers"....

The average lifespan is 9 years. Most are usually retired by 15yo.   Many of the buses are work horses - but usually require a lot of care and feeding.   some of the older models are easier for backyard mechanics to work on - hence why they may make a good choice to convert into a camper (you can DIY keeping the thing running and on the road.)  

So the 2035 cut over to electric buses - just means that the school districts have 13 years or so to work a plan/prepare for their next fleet of school buses. They may go thru 1 or 2 cycles of new buses - depending on what their current fleet looks like (and how many buses they anticipate needing in 13 years - if the local population is aging and fewer new families moving in and few new subdivisions filled with new families - they may need fewer buses. If the area is booming with lots of young families and lots of new subdivisions - they may need more buses.)

I'm thinking the "pain" of getting the most up to date buses will depend on if enrollment is dropping (aging community) with less pain if enrollment is rising - lots of new families/houses (for property taxes - cause I'm guessing that's were some of the funds will come from - there may be state or federal grants/whatever that might be gone after).

All of that said - 2035 isn't too bad of a goal - I'm guessing any sort of new school bus purchases would be done up to say 2 years before they are needed - assuming they have to be ordered and then built - and then a couple additional years would be needed to figure out how to pay for them, how many to order, what color they should be I doubt this is something a school district gets the balling rolling on a month or two before the new buses are needed.

And you don't want to hear my thoughts on turning school buses into "homes" or campers...

[djAdvocate]

SNAP is either inadequate, poorly utilized, or not broad enough.

which is it?

[resolution]

This is pre-pandemic, but it shows that SNAP was providing assistance to 82% of eligible households, which is better than I expected. frac.org/blog/usda-fns-releases-snap-participation-rates-for-fiscal-year-2016-2018

During the pandemic, a lot of the administrative requirements were relaxed and participation went up, but they are being scaled back state by state as the states are ending their official emergency declarations.

As far as I have seen, the most successful program to reduce child poverty during the pandemic was the extra child tax credit that was sent out monthly, because it was automatic and no one had to jump through a bunch of administrative obstacles to get it.  www.urban.org/urban-wire/covid-19-pandemic-underscored-child-tax-credits-power-alleviate-family-poverty

[resolution]

www.urban.org/research/publication/how-permanent-expansion-child-tax-credit-could-affect-poverty

Expanding the CTC would reduce child poverty by 5.9 percentage points, from 14.2 to 8.4 percent (rounded to the nearest tenth), using 2018 as a benchmark for a typical year. That means 4.3 million fewer children would be in poverty in a typical year, representing over a 40 percent decrease in child poverty.

[djAdvocate]

i can't find the cost of that program, but that would put our poverty rate in line with Norway, which is among the 10 best in the world.

next, we can work on other issues of child mortality.  those are more complicated issues.  it is not simply a matter of funding.

[resolution]

Unfortunately that program just ended. They were trying to extend it in the new budget, but the budget didn't pass. We have the knowledge to solve a large part of the problem, but not the will.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 19, 2022 8:47:58 GMT -5 resolution said:

Unfortunately that program just ended. They were trying to extend it in the new budget, but the budget didn't pass. We have the knowledge to solve a large part of the problem, but not the will.

isn't that vile?
i think it is vile.

[teen persuasion]

Apr 18, 2022 22:47:59 GMT -5 Tiny said:

What is the lifespan of a school bus, anyway?
Because I went down the rabbit hole of people buying old school buses and converting them into "campers"....

The average lifespan is 9 years. Most are usually retired by 15yo.   Many of the buses are work horses - but usually require a lot of care and feeding.   some of the older models are easier for backyard mechanics to work on - hence why they may make a good choice to convert into a camper (you can DIY keeping the thing running and on the road.)  

So the 2035 cut over to electric buses - just means that the school districts have 13 years or so to work a plan/prepare for their next fleet of school buses. They may go thru 1 or 2 cycles of new buses - depending on what their current fleet looks like (and how many buses they anticipate needing in 13 years - if the local population is aging and fewer new families moving in and few new subdivisions filled with new families - they may need fewer buses. If the area is booming with lots of young families and lots of new subdivisions - they may need more buses.)

I'm thinking the "pain" of getting the most up to date buses will depend on if enrollment is dropping (aging community) with less pain if enrollment is rising - lots of new families/houses (for property taxes - cause I'm guessing that's were some of the funds will come from - there may be state or federal grants/whatever that might be gone after).

All of that said - 2035 isn't too bad of a goal - I'm guessing any sort of new school bus purchases would be done up to say 2 years before they are needed - assuming they have to be ordered and then built - and then a couple additional years would be needed to figure out how to pay for them, how many to order, what color they should be I doubt this is something a school district gets the balling rolling on a month or two before the new buses are needed.

And you don't want to hear my thoughts on turning school buses into "homes" or campers...

Thanks for the info!

Looking more into the legislation, 2035 is the 100% deadline.  Another important date is 2027: there's a requirement that all new school bus purchases are electric starting in 2027. Which means the electric bus manufacturing has to really ramp up in the next 4 years. Other factoid I found was that there's 50k school busses in NY (sounds low, to me).

[weltschmerz]

Apr 18, 2022 10:29:03 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Apr 18, 2022 10:25:37 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

part of me thinks that there are an army of elites that pine for the days of indentured servants to feed, clothe and do their chores for them.  so starving people and herding them into low success environments is good for them.

but that would just be plain evil, right?

Hmmn, sounds like democrats (army of elites) and the masses at the border (indentured servants) coming in from south and central America......gotta refill the servant class because our lower class was shrinking in population as they moved up the economic ladder

Democrats? Rupublicans compared feeding hungry children to feeding stray animals.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/07/14/oklahoma-republicans-likened-poor-people-to-animals-and-then-called-it-todays-lesson-in-irony/

Mitch McConnell fought like a rabid honey badger to end school lunches for poor kids.

truthout.org/articles/mitch-mcconnell-leads-effort-to-deny-millions-of-children-free-school-lunches/

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/18/child-allowance-payments-american-rescue-plan-republicans

www.commondreams.org/views/2016/05/07/republicans-congress-want-cut-free-lunches-poor-kids-dont-let-them

Give me a break!!

[djAdvocate]

Apr 19, 2022 13:00:29 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Apr 18, 2022 10:29:03 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Hmmn, sounds like democrats (army of elites) 

the elite vote Republican by a 3:2 margin.
you need to have your hearing checked, VB.

edit: i want to point out that i didn't choose to make this political.  YOU DID.  that is because i don't see this as a particularly political issue.  in fact, i think politics is part of the problem here.  this divisiveness, which you seem particularly obsessed with, keeps us from acting constructively to solve problems.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 19, 2022 13:00:29 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Apr 18, 2022 10:29:03 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Hmmn, sounds like democrats (army of elites) and the masses at the border (indentured servants) coming in from south and central America......gotta refill the servant class because our lower class was shrinking in population as they moved up the economic ladder

Democrats? Rupublicans compared feeding hungry children to feeding stray animals.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/07/14/oklahoma-republicans-likened-poor-people-to-animals-and-then-called-it-todays-lesson-in-irony/

Mitch McConnell fought like a rabid honey badger to end school lunches for poor kids.

truthout.org/articles/mitch-mcconnell-leads-effort-to-deny-millions-of-children-free-school-lunches/

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/18/child-allowance-payments-american-rescue-plan-republicans

www.commondreams.org/views/2016/05/07/republicans-congress-want-cut-free-lunches-poor-kids-dont-let-them

Give me a break!!

the poor are only deserving if they are white.

[Value Buy]

Apr 20, 2022 3:37:42 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Apr 19, 2022 13:00:29 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

the elite vote Republican by a 3:2 margin.
you need to have your hearing checked, VB.

edit: i want to point out that i didn't choose to make this political.  YOU DID.  that is because i don't see this as a particularly political issue.  in fact, i think politics is part of the problem here.  this divisiveness, which you seem particularly obsessed with, keeps us from acting constructively to solve problems.

Grow up.
If the Governemnt is involved it is political.
You are a cynic of government and the program is run by the government.
Everything government operated is political
Yes, I too am a cynic

[happyhoix]

Apr 19, 2022 7:07:12 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

SNAP is either inadequate, poorly utilized, or not broad enough.

which is it?

In my state, snap is one of the few programs poor people can get because it comes from federal money.

Welfare is run by the state, and they’ve created so many hoops to jump through only about 10 percent of the people qualified for assistance actually get it.