Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 28, 2022 22:06:40 GMT -5
I watched the Oscars last night and not long before that happened I was thinking how much I was enjoying it. The co hosts were awesome, the clothes were great, there was a lot of diversity in presenters and winners...I'm sorry Jada felt shamed about her hair but it surprised me. I waan't taking the GI Jane comment as derogatory. GI Jane was a strong, kick ass woman, and attractive. And when Chris caught their reaction I thought he was saying he wasn't being mean, it looks nice. Will was laughing at it until he saw Jada's look. I think he hit Chris thinking that would compensate for his own laughing. So I see a situation where a bad joke was told and laughed at by men that did not know until that moment how bad it was. Neither behaved well, but Will was so out of line it eclipses Chris's bad joke. Lady Gaga was the perfect co presenter for Liza Minelli, that was a special moment. The deaf guy winning and his acceptance speech was also very cool. Will Smith getting a standing ovation and his crying and rambling about being all about love was foolish. I liked it when Youn Yuh-jung, last year's best supporting actress winner, and after presenting Troy Kotsur with his best supporting actor Oscar, then reached for it to take it away as she knew he needed both hands to sign.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Mar 28, 2022 22:12:33 GMT -5
I watched the Oscars last night and not long before that happened I was thinking how much I was enjoying it. The co hosts were awesome, the clothes were great, there was a lot of diversity in presenters and winners...I'm sorry Jada felt shamed about her hair but it surprised me. I waan't taking the GI Jane comment as derogatory. GI Jane was a strong, kick ass woman, and attractive. And when Chris caught their reaction I thought he was saying he wasn't being mean, it looks nice. Will was laughing at it until he saw Jada's look. I think he hit Chris thinking that would compensate for his own laughing. So I see a situation where a bad joke was told and laughed at by men that did not know until that moment how bad it was. Neither behaved well, but Will was so out of line it eclipses Chris's bad joke. Lady Gaga was the perfect co presenter for Liza Minelli, that was a special moment. The deaf guy winning and his acceptance speech was also very cool. Will Smith getting a standing ovation and his crying and rambling about being all about love was foolish. One of my daughters has alopecia areata. In our society, just for "normal" people, appearance is almost everything. When a female starts getting random bald spots--not as a male pattern baldness hair loss-- weird sized bald spots randomly on your head and eyebrows, it is difficult going out in public. Rock was publicly mocking Jada's bald head, not on her strength at a setting that is based solely on appearances. Jada cannot control whether or not she loses her hair.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 28, 2022 22:23:31 GMT -5
I watched the Oscars last night and not long before that happened I was thinking how much I was enjoying it. The co hosts were awesome, the clothes were great, there was a lot of diversity in presenters and winners...I'm sorry Jada felt shamed about her hair but it surprised me. I waan't taking the GI Jane comment as derogatory. GI Jane was a strong, kick ass woman, and attractive. And when Chris caught their reaction I thought he was saying he wasn't being mean, it looks nice. Will was laughing at it until he saw Jada's look. I think he hit Chris thinking that would compensate for his own laughing. So I see a situation where a bad joke was told and laughed at by men that did not know until that moment how bad it was. Neither behaved well, but Will was so out of line it eclipses Chris's bad joke. Lady Gaga was the perfect co presenter for Liza Minelli, that was a special moment. The deaf guy winning and his acceptance speech was also very cool. Will Smith getting a standing ovation and his crying and rambling about being all about love was foolish. One of my daughters has alopecia areata. In our society, just for "normal" people, appearance is almost everything. When a female starts getting random bald spots--not as a male pattern baldness hair loss-- weird sized bald spots randomly on your head and eyebrows, it is difficult going out in public. Rock was publicly mocking Jada's bald head, not on her strength at a setting that is based solely on appearances. Jada cannot control whether or not she loses her hair. I saw it like Later did initially. Jada looked fine to me in the little I saw of the Oscars.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 28, 2022 22:23:32 GMT -5
I watched the Oscars last night and not long before that happened I was thinking how much I was enjoying it. The co hosts were awesome, the clothes were great, there was a lot of diversity in presenters and winners...I'm sorry Jada felt shamed about her hair but it surprised me. I waan't taking the GI Jane comment as derogatory. GI Jane was a strong, kick ass woman, and attractive. And when Chris caught their reaction I thought he was saying he wasn't being mean, it looks nice. Will was laughing at it until he saw Jada's look. I think he hit Chris thinking that would compensate for his own laughing. So I see a situation where a bad joke was told and laughed at by men that did not know until that moment how bad it was. Neither behaved well, but Will was so out of line it eclipses Chris's bad joke. Lady Gaga was the perfect co presenter for Liza Minelli, that was a special moment. The deaf guy winning and his acceptance speech was also very cool. Will Smith getting a standing ovation and his crying and rambling about being all about love was foolish. One of my daughters has alopecia areata. In our society, just for "normal" people, appearance is almost everything. When a female starts getting random bald spots--not as a male pattern baldness hair loss-- weird sized bald spots randomly on your head and eyebrows, it is difficult going out in public. Rock was publicly mocking Jada's bald head, not on her strength at a setting that is based solely on appearances. Jada cannot control whether or not she loses her hair. I understand now that is how her and others took it. So I learned something. For me this is a situation of impact being different than intent. We are responsible for our impact rather no matter what our intent is.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 28, 2022 23:22:19 GMT -5
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Mar 29, 2022 8:02:41 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 29, 2022 19:17:19 GMT -5
Will Smith and Chris Rock will be the subject of hundreds of different memes this year.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2022 19:30:44 GMT -5
IMHO, both Will Smith and Chris Rock are a-holes. Period. Nothing funny in the Rock's "joke" and nothing admirable in Smith's response. Jada Smith looked amazing, end of story, except for her dress which was her style choice. But why should appearance be any part of the story? As long as we embrace Will Smith's reaction, we are also condemning Jada Smith's appearance.
I am most especially pissed at folks applauding Smith for "defending his woman" because, TO ME, that's blatant sexism. Do we still need cave man with club?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2022 22:12:35 GMT -5
I am “modern” enough that I believe women should be able to provide for themselves and be reasonably able to protect themselves.
But as far as defending and protecting, I’m ok with letting a man do that for me. I live in an area where crime is a serious problem, and the truth is that I feel more vulnerable when I’m by myself, than when I’m with a man.
I’m sure there’s some kind of way that that is sexist, but I’m just being honest.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 29, 2022 22:55:41 GMT -5
I feel like this will be taken the wrong way, but inspired by recent events we practiced slaps in my martial arts class tonight. It was awesome. A better defense than punching especially for me in a lot of situations.
We discussed Will's excellent form, but obviously his mistake was losing his cool and attacking which is never condoned.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Mar 30, 2022 6:59:49 GMT -5
Unfortunately what pink says is true. Very rarely do random people just come up and try to harass me or even speak when I'm with my 6 foot brother or husband. And that really sucks. People should be able to walk around and be safe.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 30, 2022 9:21:53 GMT -5
Unfortunately what pink says is true. Very rarely do random people just come up and try to harass me or even speak when I'm with my 6 foot brother or husband. And that really sucks. People should be able to walk around and be safe. They should. Yet in NYC more and more young toughs are preying on people over 60, usually Asian, and knocking them down to the concrete and stealing their stuff. The most recent incident I'm aware of was a 73 yr old guy from NJ who just planned to by a lottery ticket and then go to St Patrick's Cathedral.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Mar 30, 2022 11:48:07 GMT -5
IMHO, both Will Smith and Chris Rock are a-holes. Period. Nothing funny in the Rock's "joke" and nothing admirable in Smith's response. Jada Smith looked amazing, end of story, except for her dress which was her style choice. But why should appearance be any part of the story? As long as we embrace Will Smith's reaction, we are also condemning Jada Smith's appearance. I am most especially pissed at folks applauding Smith for "defending his woman" because, TO ME, that's blatant sexism. Do we still need cave man with club? I do not think there is even a tiny bit of truth in the bolded. To be clear, I do not embrace Will Smith's reaction. he is 100% in the wrong. I cannot stomach any excuse, reason, or defense or understanding for his action. It was showboating, famewhoring, toxic, violent, narcissistic and repugnant in every way. I think anyone who defends or excuses it should strongly reconsider their stance. But I don't think it means they hate Jada's hair.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 30, 2022 15:50:30 GMT -5
Here’s my problem with the assault…..
Because the assault was so much more visual, it took away from the atrocious thing that Chris Rock said. It wasn’t funny when Trump did it either. So now, all anyone remembers was Will Smith slapping him.
I think had Smith kept his cool, the joke about his wife would have gotten much more traction on what not to do.
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minnesotapaintlady
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Mar 30, 2022 18:28:34 GMT -5
Here’s my problem with the assault….. Because the assault was so much more visual, it took away from the atrocious thing that Chris Rock said. It wasn’t funny when Trump did it either. So now, all anyone remembers was Will Smith slapping him. I think had Smith kept his cool, the joke about his wife would have gotten much more traction on what not to do. That was my thought as well. As someone that struggles with hair loss I thought the joke was in very poor taste, but he could have defended her a lot more effectively just pointing it out later. I've also heard Rock didn't know about the alopecia and Jada has spoken a lot about how much she likes her shaved head.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2022 18:55:42 GMT -5
I’d been wondering why he slapped him instead of punching him. He should have done neither, to be clear. But a prior poster even asked do men really slap each other.
I learned today that a man slapping another man is like a big display of disrespect. Apparently, it’s worse than a punch, because it’s so disrespectful. Who knew?
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 30, 2022 20:46:31 GMT -5
I am “modern” enough that I believe women should be able to provide for themselves and be reasonably able to protect themselves. But as far as defending and protecting, I’m ok with letting a man do that for me. I live in an area where crime is a serious problem, and the truth is that I feel more vulnerable when I’m by myself, than when I’m with a man. I’m sure there’s some kind of way that that is sexist, but I’m just being honest. It's not a good comparison, Jada was not in physical danger. She had an apparently tasteless comment made about her hair style. Not exactly the crime of the century. People make a thing out of the fact that Chris has talked about Jada before. Why would she expect to be able to make public commentary and not have people critique what she said? Those that want the benefits of free speech have to realise that other people have free speech as well. Will and Jada have always behaved in a weird way. For me this was the point I said enough, I'm not interested in them anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2022 21:14:18 GMT -5
I am “modern” enough that I believe women should be able to provide for themselves and be reasonably able to protect themselves. But as far as defending and protecting, I’m ok with letting a man do that for me. I live in an area where crime is a serious problem, and the truth is that I feel more vulnerable when I’m by myself, than when I’m with a man. I’m sure there’s some kind of way that that is sexist, but I’m just being honest. It's not a good comparison, Jada was not in physical danger. She had an apparently tasteless comment made about her hair style. Not exactly the crime of the century. People make a thing out of the fact that Chris has talked about Jada before. Why would she expect to be able to make public commentary and not have people critique what she said? Those that want the benefits of free speech have to realise that other people have free speech as well. Will and Jada have always behaved in a weird way. For me this was the point I said enough, I'm not interested in them anymore. That post was in response to another poster asking if we still need cave men with clubs, and not about Will and Jada.
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justme
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Post by justme on Mar 31, 2022 0:20:36 GMT -5
The thing that keeps coming back to me - would people keep excusing it as a joke if Jada had cancer? Would the audience have laughed if she had cancer and that was why she was bald?
Autoimmune diseases aren't seen as bad as cancer but they still fucking kill people. I don't know the specifics on alopecia, but a lot of other ones kill people. It was almost 1960 before one of the autoimmune diseases I have stopped killing people - it was named because until then everyone died sooner rather than later.
So Jada has been dealing with an autoimmune disease (at least one, once you have one they start making friends. I'm literally waiting until the next one I'm going to have pops up) for years AND dealing with hair loss for years. Which is a big deal to any woman. I'd be devastated to start losing my hair. And in part from watching rock's own documentary about black women and their hair I know they have so much more tied up in it beyond women are only pretty with hair.
There's practically no way Jada didn't cry over this. She probably did a lot. Plus all the doctor visits and all the other shit trying to stop it. All the treatments you try to see if that would help. Odds are Will had been there along the way watching and not being able to do a damn thing.
When I saw the video yes I saw Will laughing - until he looked over and saw his wife's face. It wasn't there long, but fuck there was a second there it was a heartbreaking look. And it flipped his switch.
Should Will have done that? No. But Rocks remark was beyond the pale. It wasn't a joke. It wasn't cleared by the academy according to them (good because someone should have caught that).
But you know what? There's times I've pushed people because of shit they've said to my friends. Hell I've gotten damn close to hitting some. The only thing stopping me? My friends were stupid and still liked the person so I didn't want to piss them off. Plus the fact that it was a guy and they're stronger than women on average.
Also I do love some irony of the academy being upset at violence when they regularly reward movies with violence.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 31, 2022 3:24:59 GMT -5
The thing that keeps coming back to me - would people keep excusing it as a joke if Jada had cancer? Would the audience have laughed if she had cancer and that was why she was bald? Autoimmune diseases aren't seen as bad as cancer but they still fucking kill people. I don't know the specifics on alopecia, but a lot of other ones kill people. It was almost 1960 before one of the autoimmune diseases I have stopped killing people - it was named because until then everyone died sooner rather than later. So Jada has been dealing with an autoimmune disease (at least one, once you have one they start making friends. I'm literally waiting until the next one I'm going to have pops up) for years AND dealing with hair loss for years. Which is a big deal to any woman. I'd be devastated to start losing my hair. And in part from watching rock's own documentary about black women and their hair I know they have so much more tied up in it beyond women are only pretty with hair. There's practically no way Jada didn't cry over this. She probably did a lot. Plus all the doctor visits and all the other shit trying to stop it. All the treatments you try to see if that would help. Odds are Will had been there along the way watching and not being able to do a damn thing. When I saw the video yes I saw Will laughing - until he looked over and saw his wife's face. It wasn't there long, but fuck there was a second there it was a heartbreaking look. And it flipped his switch. Should Will have done that? No. But Rocks remark was beyond the pale. It wasn't a joke. It wasn't cleared by the academy according to them (good because someone should have caught that). But you know what? There's times I've pushed people because of shit they've said to my friends. Hell I've gotten damn close to hitting some. The only thing stopping me? My friends were stupid and still liked the person so I didn't want to piss them off. Plus the fact that it was a guy and they're stronger than women on average. Also I do love some irony of the academy being upset at violence when they regularly reward movies with violence. Alopecia won't kill you, in fact nothing comes up to even address that point. Yes it does make you more susceptible to other auto-immune diseases. But I think the bolded should be important. Will who knows first hand her status and was not immediately offended. There is also murder and death in films. So given your logic the academy and the rest of us should be fine if someone kills someone at the award show?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 31, 2022 7:28:25 GMT -5
I had a thought, I don't think Will did this protect Jada, I think he did this to save face with Jada. He over-reacted to cover for the fact he wasn't offended like her. Instead of saying that was in poor taste, he used an all-purpose complaint. Makes me wonder if they had an argument before they arrived.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 31, 2022 9:56:52 GMT -5
I’d been wondering why he slapped him instead of punching him. He should have done neither, to be clear. But a prior poster even asked do men really slap each other. I learned today that a man slapping another man is like a big display of disrespect. Apparently, it’s worse than a punch, because it’s so disrespectful. Who knew? We discussed slaps a lot in class the other night and why they're preferable. Less likely to injure yourself, bigger target, and open hands aren't seen as a weapon the way a fist is.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Mar 31, 2022 12:16:12 GMT -5
Here’s my problem with the assault….. Because the assault was so much more visual, it took away from the atrocious thing that Chris Rock said. It wasn’t funny when Trump did it either. So now, all anyone remembers was Will Smith slapping him. I think had Smith kept his cool, the joke about his wife would have gotten much more traction on what not to do. Huh. My "problem with the assault"....is that there was an assault.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 31, 2022 12:21:39 GMT -5
Here’s my problem with the assault….. Because the assault was so much more visual, it took away from the atrocious thing that Chris Rock said. It wasn’t funny when Trump did it either. So now, all anyone remembers was Will Smith slapping him. I think had Smith kept his cool, the joke about his wife would have gotten much more traction on what not to do. Huh. My "problem with the assault"....is that there was an assault. Very true, on national TV. It should never have happened in civilized society….just like Chris Rock’s comment was made more acceptable because the assault was the ‘worser’ thing. Have we as a society made it acceptable to mock the disabled as Trump did, or to use someone’s medical illness as a joke on national TV (or anywhere)? That’s the path we are currently on, and it’s appalling. What’s next? Making fun of speech impediments (whoops, that’s been done with Biden’s stutter). How about mocking someone in a wheelchair? I think this is still up for grabs.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Mar 31, 2022 12:37:57 GMT -5
Huh. My "problem with the assault"....is that there was an assault. Very true, on national TV. It should never have happened in civilized society….just like Chris Rock’s comment was made more acceptable because the assault was the ‘worser’ thing. Have we as a society made it acceptable to mock the disabled as Trump did, or to use someone’s medical illness as a joke on national TV (or anywhere)? That’s the path we are currently on, and it’s appalling. What’s next? Making fun of speech impediments (whoops, that’s been done with Biden’s stutter). How about mocking someone in a wheelchair? I think this is still up for grabs. My problem with the assault is still solely that there was an assault. Whether it was on live tv or not, and regardless of who said what. Compounded by the privilege that could allow someone to know they could commit it and not get in trouble. Have we as a society made it acceptable to hit comedians who say things you don't like? Kinda seems like it.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 31, 2022 12:52:18 GMT -5
Very true, on national TV. It should never have happened in civilized society….just like Chris Rock’s comment was made more acceptable because the assault was the ‘worser’ thing. Have we as a society made it acceptable to mock the disabled as Trump did, or to use someone’s medical illness as a joke on national TV (or anywhere)? That’s the path we are currently on, and it’s appalling. What’s next? Making fun of speech impediments (whoops, that’s been done with Biden’s stutter). How about mocking someone in a wheelchair? I think this is still up for grabs. My problem with the assault is still solely that there was an assault. Whether it was on live tv or not, and regardless of who said what. Compounded by the privilege that could allow someone to know they could commit it and not get in trouble. Have we as a society made it acceptable to hit comedians who say things you don't like? Kinda seems like it.If there was no mocking of the disabled, the assault wouldn’t have taken place.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Mar 31, 2022 13:35:01 GMT -5
What is all the publicity covering up?
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mollyc
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Post by mollyc on Mar 31, 2022 14:06:41 GMT -5
My $0.05 (because we don't have pennies anymore):
1) Comedians already pay a price when they tell a tasteless or bad joke. They lose the audience which they may or may not get back during their set. If it's offensive enough, they pay a long term price because some of their audience stops going to their shows and movies, they don't get offered Netflix specials, etc. It seemed to me that the audience was largely reacting negatively to the joke. With or without the slap, it might have been enough to get the Academy to not ask Chris Rock back because he used an offensive joke not vetted in rehearsal.
2) I didn't see this live and there have been issues with clips being used out of order and claimed reaction photos being used that were actually reactions to other events during the night. Did Will Smith actually laugh at the GI Jane joke or was the clip from a joke earlier in the show when someone called up all the single men and (to paraphrase) told Will Smith because of his circumstances, he counted? Because Jada Pinkett Smith, to me, definitely had an "Fuck you, asshole" glare at her husband.
3) Jada Pinkett Smith has never struck me as the sort of person who needs a partner to defend her from words. It seems to me that she's had a number of back and forths with people over the years and she gave as good as she got. Will Smith just reminded me of all of times DH stepped in when he didn't need to and, instead of me putting the person in their place and making them feel bad, it became all about what an asshole DH is.
4) Based on what I've run across so far, Chris Rock and Jada Pinkett Smith handled this professional. Will Smith, not at all.
5) A slap may be more disrespectful then a punch but it is also less likely to cause injury. There is also the issue of the size difference between the 2 men and the fact that Will Smith has had training as a boxer. How tough does he look punching someone smaller who isn't expecting it?
6) Will Smith should have been ejected like any other Joe that acts out but he wasn't. He's too big a draw to kick out right away. If he had thrown a punch instead of a slap, it would have been harder to justify letting him stay.
7) I see no upside for either party so I don't believe this was a set up. Chris Rock may or may not ever make another joke at Will Smith or Jada Pinkett Smith's expense again but there are currently a large number of other people letting them rip. If his plan was to force people to show his wife respect, it backfired.
8) Will Smith won his award. It shouldn't be taken away from him. In my opinion, this shouldn't stop him from being nominated or winning in the future. I do think he should be barred from attending award shows or, at the least the Academy Awards for a season or more. Presenters, whether comedians or not, poke fun at attendies all of the time and often the jokes are mean spirited. It maybe shouldn't be, but it is one of the job conditions. Sit on your hands until later or stay home.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2022 17:37:52 GMT -5
I had a thought, I don't think Will did this protect Jada, I think he did this to save face with Jada. He over-reacted to cover for the fact he wasn't offended like her. Instead of saying that was in poor taste, he used an all-purpose complaint. Makes me wonder if they had an argument before they arrived. I definitely think what he did had much more to do with Jada than the “joke”. Ever since I watched that Red Table Talk about the entanglement, I’ve believed that they do not have a healthy relationship. Jada was so casual about her entanglement, and either Will had been up for a couple of days and was exhausted, or he was really hurt. Toward the end, his eyes were red and he looked like he was about to cry. But maybe there was some other reason for how he looked, other than pain. She’s also said that she’s not sexually satisfied by him. So she says that publicly and she talked at the Red Table with Will about her sexual relationship with a much younger man who folks on the Internet say is very well endowed (I want to say there were pictures or a video circulating to prove it) and she didn’t seem to regret it, and imo, wasn’t even very careful with Will’s feelings during the talk. It was just an “entanglement”, after all. And at the end of the talk, they hi fived each other on “bad marriage for life”. None of that looked or sounded like a healthy relationship to me. Frankly, I think she has humiliated him publicly, and I can’t see him not feeling some type of way about all that, even if it’s not humiliation that he feels. Maybe I’m naive, but I don’t feel like a good wife would put her husband on blast like that, especially if she’s not on her way to a divorce attorney to end the marriage. Whatever agreement that had/have about extracurricular activities, I don’t recall Will ever talking publicly about anything he’s done with another woman or saying Jada doesn’t satisfy him sexually. Going onstage was not his first reaction. I think he did it to prove something to Jada. And imo, it made him look weak, not strong. A strong man would have figured out a way to show love for his wife and address Chris Rock in a way without making a spectacle of himself at that kind of event, and commit a crime for the whole world to see, if he felt that strongly about what was said. From the bits and pieces I’ve seen and read about him, her, and them over the last couple of years, I just don’t think Will Smith is in a good place when it comes to his marriage.
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tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,673
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Post by tallguy on Mar 31, 2022 21:22:27 GMT -5
I've tried to avoid this whole thing as much as I could, but.... "Was the joke offensive?" -- If Chris Rock and Jada Pinkett are friends and they are out socializing in a small group somewhere then probably not. If he does not know her well enough to know about her condition then it is in questionable taste. Why single out someone you don't know well in such a public venue? If he knew about her condition and was actually making fun of it then yes, it was utterly tasteless. "Was Will Smith's reaction wrong?" -- Yes. Going up onstage to confront Rock and even taking the mic away to calmly express his feelings to the crowd could be appropriate, but slapping Rock was not good for anybody. But, with that all being said, this was the Oscars. Does anybody REALLY care at all what happens there? And doesn't everybody who is or was part of putting on, attending, or watching this trash deserve a huge slap upside their own head for perpetuating it? Awards shows are, along with reality shows, infomercials, and soap operas the most worthless things ever created for broadcast. That is, until somebody televises a Trump rally, of course.
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