WWYD?

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I have been mulling a phone conversation over that I had with my sister yesterday and I'm stumped.  

My nephew is engaged to be married to his gf in May.  This is her oldest son, my godchild.  He has been out to visit us on a few occasions and I have always had a decent relationship with him.  The only possible kink in it was when he asked me for a loan to buy his gf a $10K engagement ring, on a salary from working at a gym.  I offered him my grandmother's engagement ring instead, which has a decent sized diamond that's a very nice one that he could choose to have the diamond reset, but apparently it wasn't big enough.  OK.  Maybe this is relevant, maybe not. (if I can find a matching diamond, it would make a VERY nice pair of diamond studs for me but as the diamond is cut in an old way, finding a match isn't easy)  

I was told by my sister that only close family would be invited to the wedding, only parents and siblings.  I was good with that.  As my nephew and his gf are paying for the wedding themselves, we were going to offer a chunk of $$ to pay the bar tab at the reception.  That was, until I found out that the 3 aunts/uncles from his dad's side of the family and all cousins are also invited to the wedding.  So what's going to happen is that my sister is going to be surrounded by a bunch of her ex's family, who has made no bones about it that my sister is considered persona non grata.  Add to this that her ex is very likely bringing his current live in gf and her 2 kids to the wedding as well.  My sister needs someone on her side, and her son has made it clear that that's not going to be us.  

All of this came down a few months ago, and we have since made plans/gotten tickets such that even if we were invited, we'd have to decline.  It's not an invite to the wedding I'm seeking, just someone to have my sister's back if I can't do it.  I had no problems if the original intent of the wedding was just going to be close family, as she'd just have to deal with her ex and his gf.  Now she's got his whole famn damily to deal with their snarky comments (hell, I've been the recipient of enough of this crap myself, I'm sure they haven't changed in the nearly 30 years I've known them).  I have been around her IL's and they're a nest of vipers.....she needs someone in her corner.  

[Lizard Queen]

What is there to do? You weren't invited.

[giramomma]

Is your sister getting a plus 1?

I get you wanting to help your sister. She's a guest. Honestly, I'd just leave it up to her if she wants to attend or not. On a mommy board I'm on...the line with wedding invitations is "It's an invitation, not a court summons."

We had a small wedding because there was no one on my side and metric shit ton on DH's. No one really cared.

I would be pissed off if my kids chose a path that deliberately pushed me out. But, ultimately, it is their choice. The only thing I can do is either choose to support them, or not. Work harder at our relationship or let the ropes drop a fair amount.

Parent/child relationships are weird. I think they get weirder around big milestones.  I would leave this between your sister and her kid.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Mar 24, 2022 14:58:44 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Is your sister getting a plus 1?

I get you wanting to help your sister. She's a guest. Honestly, I'd just leave it up to her if she wants to attend or not. On a mommy board I'm on...the line with wedding invitations is "It's an invitation, not a court summons."

We had a small wedding because there was no one on my side and metric shit ton on DH's. No one really cared.

I would be pissed off if my kids chose a path that deliberately pushed me out. But, ultimately, it is their choice. The only thing I can do is either choose to support them, or not. Work harder at our relationship or let the ropes drop a fair amount.

Parent/child relationships are weird. I think they get weirder around big milestones.  I leave this between your sister and her kid.

If her ILs were nice people, this wouldn't be an issue.  They're not.  They have repeatedly made my sister feel unwelcome when she's been invited to other things having to do with her kids.  She shouldn't be made to feel unwelcome at her son's wedding.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Mar 24, 2022 14:57:31 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

What is there to do? You weren't invited.

I know, I don't care to be invited either.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I get wanting to protect your sister but she is a grown adult who should be able to manage being around her ex's family herself.  There are plenty of options such as just attending the ceremony, leaving the reception early etc.  There are no rules saying if you are invited you must stay to the bitter end.  Make an appearance then bow out.

Or don't go at all if that is what she feels is the right decision for her and accept that her son is hell bent on shutting her side of the family out. 

That is something he will have to live with if she chooses not to come or not stay for long.   He made his choices and he has to accept the consequences of them.   It's dysfunctional and wrong but he's made it pretty clear where his priorities lie.  Now your SIL has to do what is best for her.

[giramomma]

Mar 24, 2022 15:02:37 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

If her ILs were nice people, this wouldn't be an issue.  They're not.  They have repeatedly made my sister feel unwelcome when she's been invited to other things having to do with her kids.  She shouldn't be made to feel unwelcome at her son's wedding.

The only one that can control that is her son. He is responsible for the guest list, no?

I'm not arguing that she should be made to feel unwelcome at her child's own wedding.

The flip side of it is, how many people specifically do things where they are not welcome? I know my normal meter is broken, but I think that's a pretty normal thing..to avoid where you aren't wanted...I mean, even grade school kids eventually figure that out. If Sally keeps saying "No. I don't want to play with you." or Sally calls you names every time you play, most neuro-typical  kids will eventually get the hint.

It's not a conversation that I would relish having with my children. I would be laced with a lot of things, including, maybe I should have actually put my foot up your ass to push your head out of it.

It is super awesome that you are empathetic. But, really, this is on your sister to deal with. Not anyone else to make sure that they are there to back her up.

[giramomma]

Why can't your sister hang with the bride's side of the family? I mean, my parents never interact with DH's..even on my wedding day. I assumed though, that really isn't the norm, especially since my parent's actions were driven by my mom. And we all know about my mom.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Mar 24, 2022 15:10:19 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Mar 24, 2022 15:02:37 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

If her ILs were nice people, this wouldn't be an issue.  They're not.  They have repeatedly made my sister feel unwelcome when she's been invited to other things having to do with her kids.  She shouldn't be made to feel unwelcome at her son's wedding.

The only one that can control that is her son. He is responsible for the guest list, no?

I'm not arguing that she should be made to feel unwelcome at her child's own wedding.

The flip side of it is, how many people specifically do things where they are not welcome? I know my normal meter is broken, but I think that's a pretty normal thing...I mean, even grade school kids eventually figure that out. If Sally keeps saying "No. I don't want to play with you." or Sally calls you names every time you play, most neuro-typical  kids will eventually get the hint.

It's not a conversation that I would relish having with my children. I would be laced with a lot of things, including, maybe I should have actually put my foot up your ass to push your head out of it.

It is super awesome that you are empathetic. But, really, this is on your sister to deal with. Not anyone else to make sure that they are there to back her up.

You have some good points.  I think I know what I'm going to do.  Thanks.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Mar 24, 2022 15:14:54 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Why can't your sister hang with the bride's side of the family? I mean, my parents never interact with DH's..even on my wedding day. I assumed though, that really isn't the norm, especially since my parent's actions were driven by my mom. And we all know about my mom.

She doesn't know them at all.  My sister emailed her mom to introduce herself and there was radio silence.

[CCL]

I think your sister needs to figure it out for herself.

I also would send a gift, whatever you normally do for family weddings, and wish them well, but I wouldn't be paying any of the tab for them.

[giramomma]

Mar 24, 2022 15:16:22 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Mar 24, 2022 15:14:54 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Why can't your sister hang with the bride's side of the family? I mean, my parents never interact with DH's..even on my wedding day. I assumed though, that really isn't the norm, especially since my parent's actions were driven by my mom. And we all know about my mom.

She doesn't know them at all.  My sister emailed her mom to introduce herself and there was radio silence.

That is really tough. And it's also tough because she's the mother of the groom. And the situation with the ex.

I also did actually tell DS once when I was mad at him that I was going to put my foot up his ass so far that he could smell my toes. We were all impressed that I came up with the line. Of course, I never would. But, it got the point across pretty quick that his behavior was completely inappropriate and unjustified. Also became a nice little joke between the two of us when I got my diagnosis and treatment.

I think it also would be easier for me to deal with, because I don't do social media. I did join a few stitching facebook groups. But, that's only to see what other people make. I'd probably plan for something nice to do during the wedding  and lay low for a while if I didn't get a plus one invite.

[giramomma]

Another thought: let's say there's been parental alienation. My mom absolutely alienated me against my dad, and their marriage was in tact.

A wedding is absolutely not the time to address it or fix it. The wedding itself isn't the problem. It's just the thing that exposes all the bad shit, if it exists.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

My sister adores my nephew's gf.  I have not met her (I did meet his previous one).  I know my sister will do the right thing - but I think she may get stomped over in the process.  That's hard to sit on the sidelines and watch.  

[Tennesseer]

Mar 24, 2022 15:33:38 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

My sister adores my nephew's gf.  I have not met her (I did meet his previous one).  I know my sister will do the right thing - but I think she may get stomped over in the process.  That's hard to sit on the sidelines and watch.  

Your sister should hold hr head up high and be the better person. Let the bride's family see what a low-life group of folks are on the groom's dad's side.

Plus it's only for a few hours. I might think twice though about supplying a wedding ring and paying the bar tab or any other expenses run up. A nice gift to the bride and groom rom you and hubs should suffice.

[Deleted]

You are a generous and caring aunt and sister. But I don't think you can fix what others broke.

[Deleted]

Does your sister and her son have a good relationship? Is that her only child?

I can’t really see one of my children putting me in that kind of position, alone and surrounded by sharks, without at least the other one with me while the other got married. As they’ve gotten older, they’ve both become kind of protective of me. They can upset my nerves, but they don’t like for anyone else to do it or be mean to me lol. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Mar 24, 2022 17:14:15 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Does your sister and her son have a good relationship? Is that her only child?

I can’t really see one of my children putting me in that kind of position, alone and surrounded by sharks, without at least the other one with me while the other got married. As they’ve gotten older, they’ve both become kind of protective of me. They can upset my nerves, but they don’t like for anyone else to do it or be mean to me lol. 

Only son.  And if the truth be known, probably her favorite of the 4.  As to whether they have a good relationship, I’d assume so.  Neither of them have told me anything otherwise.  

[mamasita99]

Mar 24, 2022 16:34:26 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Mar 24, 2022 15:33:38 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

My sister adores my nephew's gf.  I have not met her (I did meet his previous one).  I know my sister will do the right thing - but I think she may get stomped over in the process.  That's hard to sit on the sidelines and watch.  

Your sister should hold hr head up high and be the better person. Let the bride's family see what a low-life group of folks are on the groom's dad's side.

Plus it's only for a few hours. I might think twice though about supplying a wedding ring and paying the bar tab or any other expenses run up. A nice gift to the bride and groom rom you and hubs should suffice.

This. So much.

[mamasita99]

Mar 24, 2022 17:27:55 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Mar 24, 2022 17:14:15 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Does your sister and her son have a good relationship? Is that her only child?

I can’t really see one of my children putting me in that kind of position, alone and surrounded by sharks, without at least the other one with me while the other got married. As they’ve gotten older, they’ve both become kind of protective of me. They can upset my nerves, but they don’t like for anyone else to do it or be mean to me lol. 

Only son.  And if the truth be known, probably her favorite of the 4.  As to whether they have a good relationship, I’d assume so.  Neither of them have told me anything otherwise.  

I would be hurt if my son put me in that situation, if I was under the assumption I had a good relationship with my son. But the son and gf get to pick the guest list, so it’s on him.

[teen persuasion]

Mar 24, 2022 15:26:57 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Another thought: let's say there's been parental alienation. My mom absolutely alienated me against my dad, and their marriage was in tact.

A wedding is absolutely not the time to address it or fix it. The wedding itself isn't the problem. It's just the thing that exposes all the bad shit, if it exists.

My college roommate's parents were divorced, and her dad liked to get back at mom via the kids, usually by withholding money (like college tuition).

Fast forward to roomie's wedding day, and doesn't dad bring roomie to tears with something idiotic he said about or to her mom, again probably about money.  Ooh, I wanted to slap him - what kind of parent picks a fight and brings his child to tears on her wedding day!!! . We all know how you and mom feel about one another, but can't you be civil for the sake of the bride and groom, for one day?  Mom was as gracious as could be; dad was an ass for everyone to see and we all placed the blame squarely where it obviously belonged.

[azucena]

Weddings are showy and short so an easy time for some people to grandstand. Maybe the dad is holding wedding money over their head to gain influence. Maybe the STB wife eased the guest list rules trying to gain favor with that side esp if mom already likes her. Who knows all the relationship dynamics and a wedding will only only surface some of them and camouflage others.

Sucks to watch your sister alone in it, but likely nothing you can directly do. Maybe set up 1-1 time for her to vent/process directly before and again after. Help her focus on the future past this one day which means staying on good terms with the new DIL esp if she's a good person. And transitioning her motherhood role to completely recognize that it's DS and DIL as the new family unit which means she's now a MIL and needs concentrate on assuming that role in a healthy way.

[happyhoix]

It seems weird to me that your nephew asked for a 10,000 loan for a ring. Did your sister know he was asking you?

If my son told me he wanted to get his fiancé such an expensive ring on his limited salary I would have a ton of red flags. Who told him a ring had to be that expensive? Did his fiancé demand it? And he’ll no, if you can’t get financing on your own you are not hitting up the relatives for a loan. You hit up relatives for help paying for an expensive life or death medical procedure, not a ring you can’t afford.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I feel I did something wrong in regards to wedding bands.  Maybe I should have held out for better.  

I accepted one DH already had (long story.  Yes it was discussed and yes it was MY decision to accept it).  My wedding band is my great grandmother's.  So he technically didn't have to spend anything on me.

[minnesotapaintlady]

I'm assuming she's allowed a +1?  If she was my sister I'd help by paying for a hot male escort. 

But, she should be able to bring you or some other friend to hang out with I would think. 

[Opti]

Mar 25, 2022 10:59:40 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

It seems weird to me that your nephew asked for a 10,000 loan for a ring. Did your sister know he was asking you?

If my son told me he wanted to get his fiancé such an expensive ring on his limited salary I would have a ton of red flags. Who told him a ring had to be that expensive? Did his fiancé demand it? And he’ll no, if you can’t get financing on your own you are not hitting up the relatives for a loan. You hit up relatives for help paying for an expensive life or death medical procedure, not a ring you can’t afford.

Makes me wonder if dad or part of dad's family funded the ring. One of the conditions might have been to have mom stranded by herself at the wedding. 

[giramomma]

Mar 25, 2022 11:05:44 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I feel I did something wrong in regards to wedding bands.  Maybe I should have held out for better.  

I accepted one DH already had (long story.  Yes it was discussed and yes it was MY decision to accept it).  My wedding band is my great grandmother's.  So he technically didn't have to spend anything on me.

Eh. I went the YM budget approved path. I also got a nice expensive upgrade.

Both are sitting around. Though, I did take off jewelry once I started treatment. And I've just never put anything back on. Don't know if I ever will.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Mar 24, 2022 17:27:55 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Mar 24, 2022 17:14:15 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Does your sister and her son have a good relationship? Is that her only child?

I can’t really see one of my children putting me in that kind of position, alone and surrounded by sharks, without at least the other one with me while the other got married. As they’ve gotten older, they’ve both become kind of protective of me. They can upset my nerves, but they don’t like for anyone else to do it or be mean to me lol. 

Only son.  And if the truth be known, probably her favorite of the 4.  As to whether they have a good relationship, I’d assume so.  Neither of them have told me anything otherwise.  

Will her 3 daughters be there?

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Mar 25, 2022 12:45:36 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Mar 24, 2022 17:27:55 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Only son.  And if the truth be known, probably her favorite of the 4.  As to whether they have a good relationship, I’d assume so.  Neither of them have told me anything otherwise.  

Will her 3 daughters be there?

Yes, this figures into my idea.  They might need a little prodding though.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Mar 25, 2022 12:31:40 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Mar 25, 2022 11:05:44 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I feel I did something wrong in regards to wedding bands.  Maybe I should have held out for better.  

I accepted one DH already had (long story.  Yes it was discussed and yes it was MY decision to accept it).  My wedding band is my great grandmother's.  So he technically didn't have to spend anything on me.

Eh. I went the YM budget approved path. I also got a nice expensive upgrade.

Both are sitting around. Though, I did take off jewelry once I started treatment. And I've just never put anything back on. Don't know if I ever will.

My dad and mom rarely wear theirs both worked in industries that didn't really lend themselves to rings, especially my dad around car parts.  Now they no longer fit.  My dad's has a crack in it.

I probably shouldn't wear mine but I do.

I did tell DH if we make it to our 20th he owes me some bling after all he's put me through.   I want one of the Disney themed engagement rings they are SO PRETTY.