raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on May 23, 2022 10:15:04 GMT -5
How far is your commuter school? I'm thrilled to see 2 University campuses in Denver finally. We've always had DU, but there is no in state break there. T hey're up to $50k a year, up from $30k when I priced them 10 years ago. The options we had when I was looking were to drive 60-90 minutes 1 way. Which is commutable, but I don't think I could do that everyday. Two are within 20 minutes of our house, one public, one private (3 if you count the community college). The state college is less than a mile from the high school. We have reciprocity with WI, so if you cross the creek to their schools there are another 3 within 40 minutes (again, one public, one private, one technical school). Going an hour out gets you one more 4 year state school, but that school only does healthcare degrees.
Are those costs just tuition?!? eta: Never mind. I figured out you were talking about the private school and not the state ones. Our private schools are high too (although not that bad) but they also give out lots of scholarship money.
I'm not sure how much scholarship money it gives out. As an adult learner their didn't seem to be any.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on May 23, 2022 10:22:33 GMT -5
Two are within 20 minutes of our house, one public, one private (3 if you count the community college). The state college is less than a mile from the high school. We have reciprocity with WI, so if you cross the creek to their schools there are another 3 within 40 minutes (again, one public, one private, one technical school). Going an hour out gets you one more 4 year state school, but that school only does healthcare degrees.
Are those costs just tuition?!? eta: Never mind. I figured out you were talking about the private school and not the state ones. Our private schools are high too (although not that bad) but they also give out lots of scholarship money.
I'm not sure how much scholarship money it gives out. As an adult learner their didn't seem to be any. Yeah, I was referring to just freshman scholarships. I was playing around on CU NPC and with my kid's stats (3.8 GPA and 32 ACT) it gave a 24K/year merit scholarship. I was fudging most of the financials because I didn't want any of the merit to have need-based in included. I think I put 120K AGI, 2 parents 100,000 assets outside of retirement or something like that. It also gave a 19K grant with those numbers.
Still a spendy school though. Interestingly enough, I put our actual financial data in and the 19K institutional grant went away and was replaced by $6500 Pell and 4K SEOG. So...less...very weird. Final OOP was 35K which would be a hard no for us.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 23, 2022 10:40:59 GMT -5
You say it in every post. You want to know how many people are not doing what you approve of. Clearly you believe those people are undeserving. I surely hope you diagnose medical issues better than comprehending a post. What I say and I will put this very simply is I see people spending a lot of money before they pay their student loans yet they complain that they cannot pay their loans off. To which I would like to see a study done on that subject. Not once did I ever post that those people are undeserving. I wonder how many dems jump to conclusions like this. I am a perfectly fine physician. You apparently cannot say what you mean. Your experience isn't data. There is plenty of data out there if you would actually look for it, instead of basing this on your "experience" There is data that shows that student loans cause people to delay childbearing, house buying, retirement savings, and many other life choices. People here have told you of their experiences. Yet you continue to harp on this same point. Nice personal attack, BTW
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scgal
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Post by scgal on May 23, 2022 19:40:23 GMT -5
I surely hope you diagnose medical issues better than comprehending a post. What I say and I will put this very simply is I see people spending a lot of money before they pay their student loans yet they complain that they cannot pay their loans off. To which I would like to see a study done on that subject. Not once did I ever post that those people are undeserving. I wonder how many dems jump to conclusions like this. I am a perfectly fine physician. You apparently cannot say what you mean. Your experience isn't data. There is plenty of data out there if you would actually look for it, instead of basing this on your "experience" There is data that shows that student loans cause people to delay childbearing, house buying, retirement savings, and many other life choices. People here have told you of their experiences. Yet you continue to harp on this same point. Nice personal attack, BTW I have a real simple question for you. Do you know anyone family, friend, or coworker that has student loans yet spend their money in other areas where that money would be better off paying down the debt that seems to never go away. I'm trusting you to answer honestly.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 23, 2022 21:08:58 GMT -5
I am a perfectly fine physician. You apparently cannot say what you mean. Your experience isn't data. There is plenty of data out there if you would actually look for it, instead of basing this on your "experience" There is data that shows that student loans cause people to delay childbearing, house buying, retirement savings, and many other life choices. People here have told you of their experiences. Yet you continue to harp on this same point. Nice personal attack, BTW I have a real simple question for you. Do you know anyone family, friend, or coworker that has student loans yet spend their money in other areas where that money would be better off paying down the debt that seems to never go away. I'm trusting you to answer honestly. Sure. Do you know anyone who has done everything right yet struggles to pay the loan? Now YOU answer honestly. The issue is it better to help people, knowing some people will take advantage of the help, or to withhold help to prevent people from taking advantage? You clearly wish to avoid the latter. Not very compassionate in my opinion. It also will cost society and the economy more if more people struggle to reach their full potential. As I said above, studies about this have been done. People who are paying loans delay home buying, child bearing, and many other milestones of adulthood. Advanced degrees are required for many professions that are beneficial to society such as physicians, dentists, physical therapists, occupational therapists, speech therapists, lawyers, and many other professions. Debt burden plays a role in many of the decisions that these individuals make, frequently to the detriment of society. But you continue to focus on the people who do not do what you think they should do and disapprove of them. So you do not want to help them. Again, not very compassionate, but I expect that from conservatives these days
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scgal
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Post by scgal on May 24, 2022 7:39:26 GMT -5
I have a real simple question for you. Do you know anyone family, friend, or coworker that has student loans yet spend their money in other areas where that money would be better off paying down the debt that seems to never go away. I'm trusting you to answer honestly. Sure. Do you know anyone who has done everything right yet struggles to pay the loan? Now YOU answer honestly. The issue is it better to help people, knowing some people will take advantage of the help, or to withhold help to prevent people from taking advantage? You clearly wish to avoid the latter. Not very compassionate in my opinion. It also will cost society and the economy more if more people struggle to reach their full potential. As I said above, studies about this have been done. People who are paying loans delay home buying, child bearing, and many other milestones of adulthood. Advanced degrees are required for many professions that are beneficial to society such as physicians, dentists, physical therapists, occupational therapists, speech therapists, lawyers, and many other professions. Debt burden plays a role in many of the decisions that these individuals make, frequently to the detriment of society. But you continue to focus on the people who do not do what you think they should do and disapprove of them. So you do not want to help them. Again, not very compassionate, but I expect that from conservatives these days Yes, personally I do know of just 1 that struggles and had a shit load of SL debt. Those issues were medical with a child. Just 1 out of all the people I know. The studies you have mentioned I'm curious what was the outcome still in debt or is the debt paid off? If those sacrifices are what was needed to succeed in paying off their debt than they are the ones that made it work. It is not what I think they should do, the answers itself are no different than everyday budgeting for life. I'm not talking about how broken the system is I'm talking about personal responsibility to paying your bills. I want to help people thru programs that actually help individuals. Here is a thought if the avg graduating individual last year was 30k in debt. How about any individual who graduates going forward get 30k of debt written off. I would be willing to pay more in taxes for that. Everyone get 30k worth of free money plus all the other programs they used to get the amount to that level as long as they graduate. That would help society right? You seem to have this perception of me as someone who looks down on people who didn't do as I think they should. I think people should take personal responsibility of their own lives and situations and stop whining about it. I also think the majority of undesirable financial situation people are in are due to their own personal decisions. Holding people accountable will do far more good for a society than to coddle them.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on May 24, 2022 8:56:49 GMT -5
Renewed effort to help N.J. public service workers get student loan forgiveness“To accept this waiver, you must apply by October 31st of this year and go to studentaid.gov,” said N.J. Gov. Phil Murphy during a roundtable discussion at the College of New Jersey. “More than 2,500 New Jersey borrowers have had their student loans forgiven, canceling out $167 million in student loan debt, which is an average of more than $65,000 per person.”
Since launching the waiver program last fall, the Dept. of Education has approved more than $7.3 billion in loan forgiveness for about 130,000 borrowers. That averages out to more than $57,000 per borrower.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on May 24, 2022 9:40:14 GMT -5
Sure. Do you know anyone who has done everything right yet struggles to pay the loan? Now YOU answer honestly. The issue is it better to help people, knowing some people will take advantage of the help, or to withhold help to prevent people from taking advantage? You clearly wish to avoid the latter. Not very compassionate in my opinion. It also will cost society and the economy more if more people struggle to reach their full potential. As I said above, studies about this have been done. People who are paying loans delay home buying, child bearing, and many other milestones of adulthood. Advanced degrees are required for many professions that are beneficial to society such as physicians, dentists, physical therapists, occupational therapists, speech therapists, lawyers, and many other professions. Debt burden plays a role in many of the decisions that these individuals make, frequently to the detriment of society. But you continue to focus on the people who do not do what you think they should do and disapprove of them. So you do not want to help them. Again, not very compassionate, but I expect that from conservatives these days Yes, personally I do know of just 1 that struggles and had a shit load of SL debt. Those issues were medical with a child. Just 1 out of all the people I know. The studies you have mentioned I'm curious what was the outcome still in debt or is the debt paid off? If those sacrifices are what was needed to succeed in paying off their debt than they are the ones that made it work. It is not what I think they should do, the answers itself are no different than everyday budgeting for life. I'm not talking about how broken the system is I'm talking about personal responsibility to paying your bills. I want to help people thru programs that actually help individuals. Here is a thought if the avg graduating individual last year was 30k in debt. How about any individual who graduates going forward get 30k of debt written off. I would be willing to pay more in taxes for that. Everyone get 30k worth of free money plus all the other programs they used to get the amount to that level as long as they graduate. That would help society right? You seem to have this perception of me as someone who looks down on people who didn't do as I think they should. I think people should take personal responsibility of their own lives and situations and stop whining about it. I also think the majority of undesirable financial situation people are in are due to their own personal decisions. Holding people accountable will do far more good for a society than to coddle them. Holding corporations and government accountable for unfair practices will make a bigger faster impact and sets people up for personal accountability.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on May 24, 2022 9:44:42 GMT -5
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on May 24, 2022 10:03:49 GMT -5
And paying for it (or paying off student loans) is like trying to get a hysterectomy at 26 with no kids and no husband. (Not sure if I want to lol or have a sad face at the dichotomy) Is it thou? I did it, my kid did it, my brother did it. Husband paid his courses as he went. I have a cousin that is a OB she graduated with just under 100k abiet she had a 20k gift everything else she worked as she went. Had it paid off in 4 years. Now of course to be fair I have several cousins that have student loans for many years just lingering around, but those nice 4 door jeeps, cruises and mcmansions are more important. My husband and I did it, but we probably had $7,000 in loans to pay off when we bought our first house. College is astronomically more expensive than it was in the 80's and 90's and houses are too. My Corporate Counsel at my current place of employment said when he went to Law School at a Private College in MKE, he could work the summer at a factory like Allen Bradley and earn nearly enough to pay his tuition for the year. When his Son was at the same college maybe 8 years ago he complained that people could never hope to work the summer to earn enough to pay their tuition for even a semester. Saying I was able to do it so everyone else should be able to do it to is not reasonable unless your schooling is in the last 10 years or so.
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scgal
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Post by scgal on May 24, 2022 11:35:10 GMT -5
Is it thou? I did it, my kid did it, my brother did it. Husband paid his courses as he went. I have a cousin that is a OB she graduated with just under 100k abiet she had a 20k gift everything else she worked as she went. Had it paid off in 4 years. Now of course to be fair I have several cousins that have student loans for many years just lingering around, but those nice 4 door jeeps, cruises and mcmansions are more important. My husband and I did it, but we probably had $7,000 in loans to pay off when we bought our first house. College is astronomically more expensive than it was in the 80's and 90's and houses are too. My Corporate Counsel at my current place of employment said when he went to Law School at a Private College in MKE, he could work the summer at a factory like Allen Bradley and earn nearly enough to pay his tuition for the year. When his Son was at the same college maybe 8 years ago he complained that people could never hope to work the summer to earn enough to pay their tuition for even a semester. Saying I was able to do it so everyone else should be able to do it to is not reasonable unless your schooling is in the last 10 years or so. The problem is I don't even see people trying. I'm not saying you cannot buy a house while you have student loans, but factor in paying the SL loan in when you are considering a mortgage. Or pay the loan off before putting in a pool. I just don't think it is unreasonable to think people should hold themselves accountable to payback money they borrowed.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 24, 2022 13:17:03 GMT -5
My husband and I did it, but we probably had $7,000 in loans to pay off when we bought our first house. College is astronomically more expensive than it was in the 80's and 90's and houses are too. My Corporate Counsel at my current place of employment said when he went to Law School at a Private College in MKE, he could work the summer at a factory like Allen Bradley and earn nearly enough to pay his tuition for the year. When his Son was at the same college maybe 8 years ago he complained that people could never hope to work the summer to earn enough to pay their tuition for even a semester. Saying I was able to do it so everyone else should be able to do it to is not reasonable unless your schooling is in the last 10 years or so. The problem is I don't even see people trying. I'm not saying you cannot buy a house while you have student loans, but factor in paying the SL loan in when you are considering a mortgage. Or pay the loan off before putting in a pool. I just don't think it is unreasonable to think people should hold themselves accountable to payback money they borrowed. You continue to construct these outlandish scenarios. Most people are responsible, make a good faith effort to pay, or have had life happens events like medical bills, health scares, surprise pregnancies(which that yo conservatives they will now have to continue), or children with special needs. Yet you build these bogeymen so you can argue against this point. You have no data to back up your beliefs, but you continue to flog that horse. Irresponsible people will eventually hit the wall. You won’t help the majority that is responsible because you want yo punish people you consider irresponsible and fo not live up to your standards
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nidena
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Post by nidena on May 24, 2022 19:39:14 GMT -5
Who has student loan debt in America?
About 1 in 5 Americans hold student loans. More than half of those 45 million people with federal student loans have $20,000 or less to pay, with about a third of all borrowers owing less than $10,000. Seven percent of people with federal debt owe more than $100,000.
Economists at the Federal Reserve say borrowers with the least amount of debt often have difficulty repaying their loans, at times because they did not complete a degree. Conversely, people with the highest loan balances are often current on their payments likely because of their higher education levels and associated earning power, according to the Federal Reserve.
Those higher balances account for nearly 40 percent of the $1.6 trillion in outstanding federal student loans. Borrowing for graduate degree programs has been a primary driver of the growth in federal lending. Whereas borrowing for undergraduate degrees declined by $15 billion from the 2010-11 academic year to 2017-18, it increased for graduate programs by $2.3 billion during that period, according to the National Center for Education Statistics.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on May 24, 2022 22:13:25 GMT -5
Thoughts on removing interest or limiting to 1% for students now And for existing loans removing interest and just need to pay principle or maybe slso limit to 1% ( not just loan forgiveness)
Also think colleges should come up with at least a good amount , 25-50%, so as to help limit tuition increases
Debt forgiveness will do nothing to repair the broken way of paying for outrageously increasing tuitions
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on May 25, 2022 8:26:06 GMT -5
Thoughts on removing interest or limiting to 1% for students now And for existing loans removing interest and just need to pay principle or maybe slso limit to 1% ( not just loan forgiveness)Also think colleges should come up with at least a good amount , 25-50%, so as to help limit tuition increases Debt forgiveness will do nothing to repair the broken way of paying for outrageously increasing tuitions I like that idea. I know it costs money to run and service loan programs but that money could be provided by tax dollars because we need an educated population. One concern, however, is that it won't rein in college costs.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on May 25, 2022 8:30:13 GMT -5
I voted yesterday (in Georgia) and opted for the Democratic ballot. After voting for the various elected offices, the first question was "Should the United States remove obstacles to economic advancement by forgiving all student loan debt"?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2022 8:45:26 GMT -5
I voted yesterday (in Georgia) and opted for the Democratic ballot. After voting for the various elected offices, the first question was "Should the United States remove obstacles to economic advancement by forgiving all student loan debt"? Why did they allow that editorializing in a ballot issue? This wording makes it sound all "motherhood and apple pie". Who could be against removing economic obstacles? You could get a completely different result by phrasing it as "Should the United States forgive $1.6 trillion in student loans, which will be paid for in part by taxpayers, some of who were unable to attend college and some of whom paid for their own college costs or have already paid off their loans?" I realize this is a "feel-good" issue and it doesn't bind anyone to do anything but that wording is a sleazy trick (and I would not advocate for the wording I composed, either.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on May 25, 2022 9:04:06 GMT -5
Thoughts on removing interest or limiting to 1% for students now And for existing loans removing interest and just need to pay principle or maybe slso limit to 1% ( not just loan forgiveness)Also think colleges should come up with at least a good amount , 25-50%, so as to help limit tuition increases Debt forgiveness will do nothing to repair the broken way of paying for outrageously increasing tuitions I like that idea. I know it costs money to run and service loan programs but that money could be provided by tax dollars because we need an educated population. One concern, however, is that it won't rein in college costs.I do wonder how much of this out of control inflation of college costs stems from the easy availability of loans. It sure SEEMS like costs have gone up in line with all the new loan options that came out in the 80's. I've seen posted on this thread if there weren't these loans then only the rich kids would be going to school, but how long would that last? How long before the schools had to lower costs or shut down? How long before companies start removing the requirement for a college degree for jobs that really don't need one. That movement is already happening at a lot of places.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 25, 2022 9:13:40 GMT -5
That doesn't explain public college cost increases. If you look at it, state schools are getting less support than the did in the past, and it is a major reason for cost increase. Harvard and Stanford can charge whatever they like. I think what you would see is a contraction in the higher education market before you see moderation in prices. Marginal schools will close. Less popular majors will be cut. Not sure it will be all positive.
Loan policies have played a role in this. But changing the availability of loans will hurt low and middle class students preferentially. Increasing grant money will help the students more. Tying loans to school grants could also help.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on May 25, 2022 9:23:19 GMT -5
I voted yesterday (in Georgia) and opted for the Democratic ballot. After voting for the various elected offices, the first question was "Should the United States remove obstacles to economic advancement by forgiving all student loan debt"? Why did they allow that editorializing in a ballot issue? This wording makes it sound all "motherhood and apple pie". Who could be against removing economic obstacles? You could get a completely different result by phrasing it as "Should the United States forgive $1.6 trillion in student loans, which will be paid for in part by taxpayers, some of who were unable to attend college and some of whom paid for their own college costs or have already paid off their loans?" I realize this is a "feel-good" issue and it doesn't bind anyone to do anything but that wording is a sleazy trick (and I would not advocate for the wording I composed, either. It's clearly sneaky. What possible authority could a state ballot initiative have over federal student loans? They are clearly trying to pander to their voter base. The first question on the Republican ballot asked "The Biden administration has stopped building the border wall and illegal border crossings have dramatically increased. Should securing our border be a national priority"? Different types of dog whistle but it doesn't mean I'm not irritated even when it's my 'side' doing the whistling.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 25, 2022 10:08:31 GMT -5
That doesn't explain public college cost increases. If you look at it, state schools are getting less support than the did in the past, and it is a major reason for cost increase. Harvard and Stanford can charge whatever they like. I think what you would see is a contraction in the higher education market before you see moderation in prices. Marginal schools will close. Less popular majors will be cut. Not sure it will be all positive. Loan policies have played a role in this. But changing the availability of loans will hurt low and middle class students preferentially. Increasing grant money will help the students more. Tying loans to school grants could also help. Nebraska now provides ZERO funds for the University of Nebraska system. ZERO. That is a huge reason the costs of college have gone up, in the past state taxes used to heavily subsidize costs. When states started slashing it the difference has to be made up somewhere. International tuition offsets some of those costs but then they reduced the number of people allowed to come. Which is good in terms of American students wanting to get in but then the costs have to be made up somewhere. Research also made up a lot of the difference. Many institutions take as much as 60% off the top of the grant which then goes to cover overhead costs. Grant money has become harder and harder to get and what people do get is not a lot. So costs have to be made up somewhere. I know that a lot of posters on the board claim that colleges provide luxury apartments, students don't need fancy stuff to learn with and that we're driving up costs playing with fruit flies when we should be out getting a real job. IDK about those people but I want my pharmacy and medical students to be receiving state of the art (or as close to it) educations. They may be operating on me someday and I don't want them having been educated on substandard and out of date materials just so you can save a buck. And us "playing with fruit flies" is what helped provide the COVID vaccine. . .so you're welcome. The whole college education system in our country is broken. We don't treat education as a right like other Western countries do. We consider it a privilege that you must earn through pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. If we instead viewed education as a betterment to society as a whole and changed our system to reflect how other Western nations provide it we'd probably see a dramatic drop in costs. But that would mean taxes! That would mean acknowledging we are NOT a meritocracy by any stretch of the imagination. Those two things are never going to happen in America. Also a good hard look needs to be taken at how much adminstrators are making. The dean of UNMC makes over a million dollars a year. Does he REALLY need that much in salary and where could that money be going instead? Which is another question America will never answer because God forbid he make less so the rest can be spent across the board. That's communism!
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 25, 2022 10:19:22 GMT -5
That doesn't explain public college cost increases. If you look at it, state schools are getting less support than the did in the past, and it is a major reason for cost increase. Harvard and Stanford can charge whatever they like. I think what you would see is a contraction in the higher education market before you see moderation in prices. Marginal schools will close. Less popular majors will be cut. Not sure it will be all positive. Loan policies have played a role in this. But changing the availability of loans will hurt low and middle class students preferentially. Increasing grant money will help the students more. Tying loans to school grants could also help. Nebraska now provides ZERO funds for the University of Nebraska system. ZERO. That is a huge reason the costs of college have gone up, in the past state taxes used to heavily subsidize costs. When states started slashing it the difference has to be made up somewhere. International tuition offsets some of those costs but then they reduced the number of people allowed to come. Which is good in terms of American students wanting to get in but then the costs have to be made up somewhere. Research also made up a lot of the difference. Many institutions take as much as 60% off the top of the grant which then goes to cover overhead costs. Grant money has become harder and harder to get and what people do get is not a lot. So costs have to be made up somewhere. I know that a lot of posters on the board claim that colleges provide luxury apartments, students don't need fancy stuff to learn with and that we're driving up costs playing with fruit flies when we should be out getting a real job. IDK about those people but I want my pharmacy and medical students to be receiving state of the art (or as close to it) educations. They may be operating on me someday and I don't want them having been educated on substandard and out of date materials just so you can save a buck. And us "playing with fruit flies" is what helped provide the COVID vaccine. . .so you're welcome. The whole college education system in our country is broken. We don't treat education as a right like other Western countries do. We consider it a privilege that you must earn through pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. If we instead viewed education as a betterment to society as a whole and changed our system to reflect how other Western nations provide it we'd probably see a dramatic drop in costs. But that would mean taxes! That would mean acknowledging we are a meritocracy by any stretch of the imagination. Those two things are never going to happen in America. Also a good hard look needs to be taken at how much adminstrators are making. The dean of UNMC makes over a million dollars a year. Does he REALLY need that much in salary and where could that money be going instead? Which is another question America will never answer because God forbid he make less so the rest can be spent across the board. That's communism! Sounds like another problem we have where costs have increased beyond the rate of inflation. We seem to want people to suffer to improve themselves, otherwise it isn't worth it. But money that people use to pay for their education is money they do not have to spend on other things that make the economy go. If states supported their systems better, the cost differential with private schools would become more significant, maybe students could actually work and make enough to pay for the education, and that would pressure private schools to cut their prices. But why should I pay taxes to educate other peoples kids.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 25, 2022 10:34:45 GMT -5
We also need to acknowledge that corporations shifted the costs and burden of training onto colleges and college students. Even trades around here require you now to have some sort of college education if not a bachelor's.
You used to do apprenticeships for a lot of things. hen I was looking at the phlebotomy program I was talking with the director and she said it used to be an apprenticeship situation. You could take kids straight out of HS and they would undergo on the job training and eventually be hired on as licensed phlebotomists.
However the hospitals figured out it was much cheaper for them to farm it out to schools. Now they have to wait 2-3 years before someone is ready to become one. It's costly compared to what you make and only so many are accepted into the program per year.
Which has lead to a massive shortage.
I was reading a similar article discussing the same thing with nursing right now. None of this should be shocking to the hospital system, IMO. You set things up this way and it was going to come to a head eventually, COVID just sped it up for you.
They are reconsidering here the RN to BSN program rather than expecting you to have your BSN right out the gate. It takes only two years to get your RN. You can be working while in the accelerated program. You can recruit people for the RN straight out of HS and in two years have a floor ready nurse. To me it's a no brainer.
As it stands right now they all want a BSN from day one. You're waiting 4 years for at most 10 new graduates. Meanwhile all your current nurses are quitting or retiring.
DH's employer is having to reconsider requiring degrees for everything under the sun and going back to apprenticeship training because they don't have anyone to run their warehouses or production lines while they wait around for new graduates to apply. Meanwhile the people that used to do it are retiring at a much faster rate.
I know Phil always argued that jobs require degrees now because education sucks unlike in his day when you could go be a nurse at 8 years old due to your fine education. I've also heard it argued that it shows you can "handle" work because you dedicated 4 years of your life to going to school.
Bullshit. Those are things we tell ourselves to justify the current system and the fact we were forced to play the game. If we change anything that means having to acknowledge for A LOT of people that we got ripped off. Misery loves company though so we're going to do whatever mental gymnastics we can to insist everyone else play the game we did.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on May 25, 2022 14:32:10 GMT -5
The hospital system where my niece works started a program that trains people already employed by the hospital to get their schooling and training at the hospital for surgical techs. It's only been a year but they have their maximum number of students registered and had their first graduate this spring.
He had formerly been a janitor there so this worked well for him. That is the type of employee they want in the program--someone who has put in the work doing non medical jobs. The program is free to those selected.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on May 26, 2022 19:52:47 GMT -5
I think we all agree that it’s absolutely insane to charge more than one or 2% interest on the loan that can’t be discharged in bankruptcy.
There would be a lot more money for each student if colleges went back to actually having standards on who gets admitted, who passes the classes, and what classes you have to take in order to get a degree. Those of you who went to more exclusive institutions can’t really understand how much college credit is given for doing K-12 work and how many people graduate without doing anything that hard.
You’re gonna have a lot less trouble convincing people that fully funded colleges are a public good if colleges return to be in a place where very smart people are training to do very great things, instead of being a place where mediocre students spend four years flirting with alcoholism so that they can get a piece of paper that allows them to apply for a job I could train my eighth grader to do. Being credentialed and being educated are not the same thing.
With the baby boomers retiring, the US, and most of the developed world, are going to face a labor shortage. Like it or not, companies are going to have to start having training programs, or at the very least, start giving people who are self taught a chance to prove themselves. And don’t even get me started on the way companies require college degrees for jobs that only require basic literacy and a willingness to learn.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on May 27, 2022 10:46:42 GMT -5
Kind of off topic, but I sent a screen shot of the FaceBook page for PSLF and MyFed Loan pages to my Niece and my Son's GF. Now I am getting Robo Calls about Student Loan Forgiveness. I only have a parent Plus loan and I don't have Public Service Employment - So I am kind of creeped out that somehow I am being tracked. I don't know if I need to take any action? I have an I phone, if that matters.
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on May 27, 2022 11:00:58 GMT -5
iPhone has added a lot of safety features now - you should be able to disable tracking if you have the FB app or other apps.
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nidena
Senior Member
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Post by nidena on Jun 1, 2022 20:53:05 GMT -5
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jun 1, 2022 21:51:39 GMT -5
The $5.8 billion amount is eye-popping. What isn't mentioned is that most of it was uncollectible.
I'm glad that they gave up trying to collect on that debt and that forgiveness will be automatic. That will save taxpayers more money than trying to collect it or process applications for relief.
The dollar values involved are shocking, but they are completely bogus. Nothing like that was ever going to be collected.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jun 2, 2022 9:44:50 GMT -5
Ouch! I didn't do my math before posting the above. $5.8 billion divided by 560,000 works out to $10K and change per student. I'm very surprised that the average is that low.
I cannot explain it. Maybe the former students borrowed less than I expected and paid more than I expected. Maybe, in this case, the number being cited is the original amount borrowed instead of the sum of the current balances.
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