giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 1, 2022 15:43:32 GMT -5
So who does those jobs. Or don’t you care I mentioned the possibility of compensation being driven up in those fields to justify the cost of academic credentials. Or- here's a radical thought- maybe universities ought to charge less for degrees that don't pay as much to encourage people to get the credentials. They could offer more scholarships. I've already mentioned programs that forgive loans in exchange for public service or work in under-served areas. And yes, trust fund babies. Some people raised in wealthy families use their resources to pursue their passions without regard to how well they can make a living at them. Universities are going to offer more scholarships with what money? It is shocking how many of our engineering departments are hurting for money. The school of education has half as many undergraduates as it used to 15 years ago, because of the crap lawmakers pulled. You think there's excess? And, yes, we can all go on and on about bloat with deans. Which one of you is going to say that having a dean to represent the issues for BIPOC is wasteful?
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on May 1, 2022 16:31:20 GMT -5
Did you read the numbers that Knee Deep in Water Chloe shared? She had $45k in student loans, paid off more than $30k, yet still had nearly $40k to go. You can't "budget" your way out of interest formulas that damn near double your debt. I know someone who has more than $100k in debt for her Master's. She a Social Worker who works for the Public Defender so she is far from making a whole lot of money. Her payments are something like $700/month and that's on top of rent...and auto insurance...and utilities...and providing for her teenager...and groceries...and all the other bills. I don't know what she makes, specifically, but I DO know it's less than $3500/mo because she said, when we were discussing income and I mentioned mine, that she makes less than me. Right there is part of the problem. Who in their right mind would incur a 100k in debt and take a position that cannot support that debt. My daughter took on not quite half that debt 3 years out of college making 125k. I wasn't referring to treading water chloe just in general. I do appreciate you specifying that you weren't speaking about me specifically.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on May 3, 2022 14:27:27 GMT -5
My oldest daughter will be 14 in July and starting high school. I'm very worried about the cost of college for her and us but, to be frank, there's something I don't understand. How are people racking up such massive student loans for undergrad? Unless I've misunderstood, right now the maximum amount a student can take out over four years is $31,000. Anything beyond those federal loans require a co-signer. A parent-plus loan is the parents' loan and not that of the student. So how do people end up with so much debt?
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on May 3, 2022 14:47:42 GMT -5
My oldest daughter will be 14 in July and starting high school. I'm very worried about the cost of college for her and us but, to be frank, there's something I don't understand. How are people racking up such massive student loans for undergrad? Unless I've misunderstood, right now the maximum amount a student can take out over four years is $31,000. Anything beyond those federal loans require a co-signer. A parent-plus loan is the parents' loan and not that of the student. So how do people end up with so much debt? As you said, private loans with a cosigner.
I don't think MOST are taking more than the government max (which is 57K if the parent doesn't qualify for Parent Plus), but damn...some of the posts I've been reading on the college Facebook groups. "Here are our options, what should we do? We can safely pay about 15K/year" FSU - Free tuition, 12K for room and board. Alabama - Free tuition - 15K out of pocket UCLA - 45K/year
"Thanks all! We're going with UCLA! She's so excited! Where can we get private loans or should I put it all on the Parent Plus?"
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on May 3, 2022 14:58:10 GMT -5
I honestly don't know if I should try to pay my kids student loans down or wait and see if they get forgiveness. I don't get making some people eligible for forgiveness and not other especially if they are high paying careers like Doctors and Nurses. Some Nurses have made bank during the pandemic.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 3, 2022 16:21:52 GMT -5
I honestly don't know if I should try to pay my kids student loans down or wait and see if they get forgiveness. I don't get making some people eligible for forgiveness and not other especially if they are high paying careers like Doctors and Nurses. Some Nurses have made bank during the pandemic. and a lot of them are dead too, so there's that.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on May 3, 2022 17:17:19 GMT -5
My oldest daughter will be 14 in July and starting high school. I'm very worried about the cost of college for her and us but, to be frank, there's something I don't understand. How are people racking up such massive student loans for undergrad? Unless I've misunderstood, right now the maximum amount a student can take out over four years is $31,000. Anything beyond those federal loans require a co-signer. A parent-plus loan is the parents' loan and not that of the student. So how do people end up with so much debt? According to this article from Feb 2022, the age of the borrowers with the most debt is over 35 with those with the largest amount of debt being split pretty evenly between ages 25-34 and 35-49. Those latter two groups also have the most delinquent debt so their balances are (most likely) ballooning because of interest and fees.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2022 18:29:52 GMT -5
I don't think MOST are taking more than the government max (which is 57K if the parent doesn't qualify for Parent Plus), but damn...some of the posts I've been reading on the college Facebook groups. "Here are our options, what should we do? We can safely pay about 15K/year" FSU - Free tuition, 12K for room and board. Alabama - Free tuition - 15K out of pocket UCLA - 45K/year
"Thanks all! We're going with UCLA! She's so excited! Where can we get private loans or should I put it all on the Parent Plus?"
Ack. I've been thinking more about the low-paying majors and here's my thought about borrowing to fund them. Double major. I know actuaries with a very wide range of double majors- Math and...Theology (Theology was actually grad school and he was also an Episcopal priest), Classics, Geography, Linguistics (she specialized in the native language in Greenland), and MANY who also either majored in Music or were just very good at it. We had an orchestra and chorus composed of members at our 100th anniversary celebration. Both were huge and they were good. My brother knows a woman who majored in Underwater Archaeology. Yeah, there is such a thing. She has a job with the city working for peanuts. Call me a Mean Mom but I would not have funded (especially not borrowed for) my kid's college if that were their chosen major.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 3, 2022 20:31:18 GMT -5
I don't know what about college majors makes everyone want to endorse helicopter parenting into adulthood, but it just does.
I endorse making college more affordable and student loans a break even venture at best - not a billions in profit a year for loan servicers. Let's get the sharks out of the water, and let young adults swim on their own.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on May 3, 2022 20:39:33 GMT -5
For government loans isn’t it the federal government that’s making money? There seems to have been ample opportunity to reduce this stream of income but seems just lots of talk
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 3, 2022 21:32:00 GMT -5
Again, the Republican congress raised the interest rate on these loans from 3.4% to 6.8% when my son was in medical school when the 10 t bill rate was below 3%. Seems that one party wanted the federal government to make money on these loans
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 3, 2022 21:45:17 GMT -5
My oldest daughter will be 14 in July and starting high school. I'm very worried about the cost of college for her and us but, to be frank, there's something I don't understand. How are people racking up such massive student loans for undergrad? Unless I've misunderstood, right now the maximum amount a student can take out over four years is $31,000. Anything beyond those federal loans require a co-signer. A parent-plus loan is the parents' loan and not that of the student. So how do people end up with so much debt?I believe it's interest and fees. You can be making payments on your student loan and still have the balance grow every month.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 3, 2022 21:58:14 GMT -5
I honestly don't know if I should try to pay my kids student loans down or wait and see if they get forgiveness. I don't get making some people eligible for forgiveness and not other especially if they are high paying careers like Doctors and Nurses. Some Nurses have made bank during the pandemic. I know... why would doctors or nurses want to work for peanuts in some podunk town especially since they can bring home the Big Bucks by working elsewhere and quickly pay off their SLs and reach for the American Dream. Doctors and Nurses don't need loan forgiveness. I'm sure there are some inexpensive local schools that the people who want to be doctors or nurses in podunk towns can go to. OK, that's all sarcasm... I know we all expect teachers to be 100% altruistic and idealistic and just suck up the expense of their education and to happily and proudly accept low pay and crappy working conditions.... but, really, do we also expect our healthcare professionals to do the same especially since it's a traditionally male career?
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on May 3, 2022 21:58:29 GMT -5
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 4, 2022 5:13:16 GMT -5
No 2015 or 2016. My son was in medical school
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on May 4, 2022 7:49:23 GMT -5
I honestly don't know if I should try to pay my kids student loans down or wait and see if they get forgiveness. I don't get making some people eligible for forgiveness and not other especially if they are high paying careers like Doctors and Nurses. Some Nurses have made bank during the pandemic. I know... why would doctors or nurses want to work for peanuts in some podunk town especially since they can bring home the Big Bucks by working elsewhere and quickly pay off their SLs and reach for the American Dream. Doctors and Nurses don't need loan forgiveness. I'm sure there are some inexpensive local schools that the people who want to be doctors or nurses in podunk towns can go to. OK, that's all sarcasm... I know we all expect teachers to be 100% altruistic and idealistic and just suck up the expense of their education and to happily and proudly accept low pay and crappy working conditions.... but, really, do we also expect our healthcare professionals to do the same especially since it's a traditionally male career? In many states, there are health care deserts. In parts of Iowa, people drive far distances to get health care. If a health care professional is willing to work in those areas, I have no problems forgiving their loans. I think they have to provide service in underserved areas for 5 years (it might be 10 years), so they have to live in those areas. Same for teachers who work in the areas where there is loan forgiveness.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on May 4, 2022 7:52:27 GMT -5
The rate was at 6.8% for second bachelors/graduate degrees in 2007/2008 when I got my masters. It was 5.8% for bachelor's. Whether it was decreased at some point after and bumped back up, I don't know. I only had federal loans and I've always said that interest rate was criminal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2022 7:58:39 GMT -5
For government loans isn’t it the federal government that’s making money? There seems to have been ample opportunity to reduce this stream of income but seems just lots of talk My understanding is that the government just guarantees the loans- in other words, there's a bank/lending company that loans you the money, you pay it back to them, but if you default the government (i.e. the taxpayers) make the bank whole- which makes one wonder why they charge such high interest rates with that kind of security. My oldest daughter will be 14 in July and starting high school. I'm very worried about the cost of college for her and us but, to be frank, there's something I don't understand. How are people racking up such massive student loans for undergrad? Unless I've misunderstood, right now the maximum amount a student can take out over four years is $31,000. Anything beyond those federal loans require a co-signer. A parent-plus loan is the parents' loan and not that of the student. So how do people end up with so much debt?I believe it's interest and fees. You can be making payments on your student loan and still have the balance grow every month. Another reason is that income-based repayment plans allow some low-income people to make payments that are so low they don't cover even the interest, so the principal is never reduced and the unpaid interest keeps growing.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on May 4, 2022 9:19:25 GMT -5
I don't think MOST are taking more than the government max (which is 57K if the parent doesn't qualify for Parent Plus), but damn...some of the posts I've been reading on the college Facebook groups. "Here are our options, what should we do? We can safely pay about 15K/year" FSU - Free tuition, 12K for room and board. Alabama - Free tuition - 15K out of pocket UCLA - 45K/year
"Thanks all! We're going with UCLA! She's so excited! Where can we get private loans or should I put it all on the Parent Plus?"
Ack. I've been thinking more about the low-paying majors and here's my thought about borrowing to fund them. Double major. I know actuaries with a very wide range of double majors- Math and...Theology (Theology was actually grad school and he was also an Episcopal priest), Classics, Geography, Linguistics (she specialized in the native language in Greenland), and MANY who also either majored in Music or were just very good at it. We had an orchestra and chorus composed of members at our 100th anniversary celebration. Both were huge and they were good. My brother knows a woman who majored in Underwater Archaeology. Yeah, there is such a thing. She has a job with the city working for peanuts. Call me a Mean Mom but I would not have funded (especially not borrowed for) my kid's college if that were their chosen major. But, there are many jobs and industries where they don’t care if your degree is in underwater basket weaving or economics. It’s about the hustle and looking at the long term. So I’d pay for a degree for my kid in one of those subjects if he had a game plan for after graduation for his career. However, I think like you I wouldn’t be paying for a degree in something without there being a career plan after graduation.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on May 4, 2022 9:45:45 GMT -5
I honestly don't know if I should try to pay my kids student loans down or wait and see if they get forgiveness. I don't get making some people eligible for forgiveness and not other especially if they are high paying careers like Doctors and Nurses. Some Nurses have made bank during the pandemic. and a lot of them are dead too, so there's that. well at least they don't have to worry about paying off their student loans so that's a win.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on May 4, 2022 9:50:31 GMT -5
and a lot of them are dead too, so there's that. well at least they don't have to worry about paying off their student loans so that's a win.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on May 4, 2022 9:55:05 GMT -5
I honestly don't know if I should try to pay my kids student loans down or wait and see if they get forgiveness. I don't get making some people eligible for forgiveness and not other especially if they are high paying careers like Doctors and Nurses. Some Nurses have made bank during the pandemic. I know... why would doctors or nurses want to work for peanuts in some podunk town especially since they can bring home the Big Bucks by working elsewhere and quickly pay off their SLs and reach for the American Dream. Doctors and Nurses don't need loan forgiveness. I'm sure there are some inexpensive local schools that the people who want to be doctors or nurses in podunk towns can go to. OK, that's all sarcasm... I know we all expect teachers to be 100% altruistic and idealistic and just suck up the expense of their education and to happily and proudly accept low pay and crappy working conditions.... but, really, do we also expect our healthcare professionals to do the same especially since it's a traditionally male career? I really don't have a problem with them giving incentives to professionals to work in areas that are desperate for employees, and I happen to think Teachers are vastly underpaid and vitally important to the fabric of our society. So maybe do broader forgiveness but means test for the higher end? There are medical careers like nursing they don't have the time/capital investment of becoming a Dr, that pay very well like Nursing. Some here have said no one should get forgiveness. I am more open to it. I am actually leaning to the right thing to do is to reduce/cap the interest rate paid and maybe forgive 10,000 or 20,000 in loans. I have to agree that a long term solution is better than a temporary one. If it were to be only one, I would hope they would reduce the interest rate for Student Loans, but they have not talked about that to my knowledge, so I expect this is another area where talk is cheap and nada will change.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on May 4, 2022 9:56:12 GMT -5
well at least they don't have to worry about paying off their student loans so that's a win. Yeah that was sarcasm.
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scgal
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Post by scgal on May 4, 2022 10:02:59 GMT -5
For government loans isn’t it the federal government that’s making money? There seems to have been ample opportunity to reduce this stream of income but seems just lots of talk My understanding is that the government just guarantees the loans- in other words, there's a bank/lending company that loans you the money, you pay it back to them, but if you default the government (i.e. the taxpayers) make the bank whole- which makes one wonder why they charge such high interest rates with that kind of security. I believe it's interest and fees. You can be making payments on your student loan and still have the balance grow every month. Another reason is that income-based repayment plans allow some low-income people to make payments that are so low they don't cover even the interest, so the principal is never reduced and the unpaid interest keeps growing. One of the problems is paying the student loan back immediately they get put off to start living beyond their means. Gotta have a 50k car ooh lets get mcmansion after mcmansion, go on trips. We can afford we are not making any effort to pay the loans back. Oh woes me the govt needs to bail me out oh poor me. Very few people can honestly say I just can't get these loans paid off and are not wasting a ton of money
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on May 4, 2022 10:47:28 GMT -5
Well, if you have a kid in college now and take part in any college finance forums or groups you'll know that taking student loans right now is all the rage whether you need them or not because of all the talk of blanket forgiveness. Not saying everyone is doing it, but there are a lot that are taking the "just in case" route.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 4, 2022 10:54:36 GMT -5
My oldest daughter will be 14 in July and starting high school. I'm very worried about the cost of college for her and us but, to be frank, there's something I don't understand. How are people racking up such massive student loans for undergrad? Unless I've misunderstood, right now the maximum amount a student can take out over four years is $31,000. Anything beyond those federal loans require a co-signer. A parent-plus loan is the parents' loan and not that of the student. So how do people end up with so much debt?I believe it's interest and fees. You can be making payments on your student loan and still have the balance grow every month. When DD and I were taking out loans for her, there was I think a 4.5% origination fee came up off the top, and then if your parent makes 'too much' money - the interest kicks in immediately. so when we started the limit freshman year for fed loans was 5,500 in loans, so you get about 5250 towards the tuition and then I think the 5500 loan has interest capitalizing daily until you start repayment, which is about 4-5 years if you are on the standard plan. Take 6 years to graduate - which is very common, and that 5250 that went towards tuition from freshman year is 6500 at 4 year or over 7k when you begin repayment if you take the 6 year plan. plus all the other years you took out loans for.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 4, 2022 11:13:25 GMT -5
For government loans isn’t it the federal government that’s making money? There seems to have been ample opportunity to reduce this stream of income but seems just lots of talk My understanding is that the government just guarantees the loans- in other words, there's a bank/lending company that loans you the money, you pay it back to them, but if you default the government (i.e. the taxpayers) make the bank whole- which makes one wonder why they charge such high interest rates with that kind of security. I believe it's interest and fees. You can be making payments on your student loan and still have the balance grow every month. Another reason is that income-based repayment plans allow some low-income people to make payments that are so low they don't cover even the interest, so the principal is never reduced and the unpaid interest keeps growing. very true, and not to mention deferrals and forebearances. the interest keeps accruing, compounded daily. It boggles my mind how student loans got to be having interest compounded daily.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 4, 2022 11:21:11 GMT -5
Well, if you have a kid in college now and take part in any college finance forums or groups you'll know that taking student loans right now is all the rage whether you need them or not because of all the talk of blanket forgiveness. Not saying everyone is doing it, but there are a lot that are taking the "just in case" route.
oh dear! I feel like this alone will kill any chance it had for widespread application!
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 4, 2022 11:28:16 GMT -5
and a lot of them are dead too, so there's that. well at least they don't have to worry about paying off their student loans so that's a win. sarcastic or not this is pretty harsh. Some of us lost people in the pandemic.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on May 4, 2022 13:51:01 GMT -5
Well, your comment struck me as offensive for the same reason. We lost several family members too. I read it and wondered how that was relevant to the discussion of student loan debt. I truly am sorry for the loved ones you lost. I did not mean to be insensitive. I just feel that some people's compensation was adjusted to compensate for the additional risk they took on. I realize that is not true for everyone.
Nidena brought up social workers - they need a Master's Degree but their average salary is around $50,000/yr. Doctors make something like $174,000-400,000 a year. even if they have a 200,000 loan balance they should be able to afford their student loan payments. Rural Doctors are a different story - to go to a rural area, they often give up some earning potential so it is not an apples to apples comparison.
I think adjusting/capping the interest rates is a good place to start. It not only fixes it for current borrowers, but also the kids currently in school or those who are not there yet. We have been underfunding education for about 25 years in this country.
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