dondub
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Post by dondub on Mar 17, 2022 17:41:28 GMT -5
I think you are seeing the benefit of one side being highly motivated, and the effectiveness of defensive weaponry And perhaps an aggressor that lacks a legitimate cause.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 17, 2022 17:44:24 GMT -5
I think you are seeing the benefit of one side being highly motivated, and the effectiveness of defensive weaponry And perhaps an aggressor that lacks a legitimate cause. I do not believe the Russians have the motivation to fight, so I think you are correct that that is playing a role
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Mar 17, 2022 18:42:10 GMT -5
One article I read today said that possibly the generals were getting killed because Putin was furious that the war was going so badly and the generals, rather than direct the fighting from the rear, are getting close to the front line.
Putin gave a Stalin type speech today about purifying the country so maybe the generals would rather get killed in battle than go home losers.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Mar 17, 2022 23:54:31 GMT -5
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 18, 2022 7:30:24 GMT -5
Article on companies staying in Russia including Halliburton. www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/column-here-s-the-hall-of-shame-of-companies-that-haven-t-left-russia/ar-AAVd3er?ocid=msedgntpThe most notable companies identified by Sonnenfeld as "digging in" are three major oil-field services firms, all based in Houston: Halliburton, Baker Hughes and Schlumberger.
Russia's oil and gas industry isn't currently subject to the full panoply of international sanctions, but it's dependent on those firms for drilling and production. The U.S. has banned imports of Russian petroleum products and forbidden U.S. companies to make new investments in the Russian industry; the European Union has also banned new capital investments.
Neither the U.S. nor the EU has ordered the oil-field companies to withdraw, but little would keep them from halting their operations in Russia or suspending their partnerships with Russian petroleum companies.
Of the three, only Halliburton has commented publicly about the sanctions. The comments came during a meeting with securities analysts on Jan. 20, when Chief Executive Jeffrey Allen Miller was asked whether the prospect of sanctions would affect "the trajectory of the business in Russia."
Miller replied, "These are things we've seen and done before. Always unfortunate in so many ways for so many people. But from a business perspective, we've managed these sorts of things up and down for, I hate to say, nearly 100 years. So these are the kinds of things that we would manage through."
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 18, 2022 13:52:51 GMT -5
Article on companies staying in Russia including Halliburton. www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/column-here-s-the-hall-of-shame-of-companies-that-haven-t-left-russia/ar-AAVd3er?ocid=msedgntpThe most notable companies identified by Sonnenfeld as "digging in" are three major oil-field services firms, all based in Houston: Halliburton, Baker Hughes and Schlumberger.
Russia's oil and gas industry isn't currently subject to the full panoply of international sanctions, but it's dependent on those firms for drilling and production. The U.S. has banned imports of Russian petroleum products and forbidden U.S. companies to make new investments in the Russian industry; the European Union has also banned new capital investments.
Neither the U.S. nor the EU has ordered the oil-field companies to withdraw, but little would keep them from halting their operations in Russia or suspending their partnerships with Russian petroleum companies.
Of the three, only Halliburton has commented publicly about the sanctions. The comments came during a meeting with securities analysts on Jan. 20, when Chief Executive Jeffrey Allen Miller was asked whether the prospect of sanctions would affect "the trajectory of the business in Russia."
Miller replied, "These are things we've seen and done before. Always unfortunate in so many ways for so many people. But from a business perspective, we've managed these sorts of things up and down for, I hate to say, nearly 100 years. So these are the kinds of things that we would manage through."i think this article is important, in the following respect: like it or not, corporations play an inordinate role in how things go in the US. the more CORPORATE support there is for Russia, the less likely it is that we will defend Ukraine.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Mar 18, 2022 15:37:33 GMT -5
looking into companies not pulling out of russia.....boycott?
Been boycotting koch industries for years, ditto burger king cuz vegan.
Is there a list? I will boycott them all!
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 18, 2022 15:45:23 GMT -5
looking into companies not pulling out of russia.....boycott? Been boycotting koch industries for years, ditto burger king cuz vegan. Is there a list? I will boycott them all! There are on Twitter. I'll look to see if I can find one. Congrats on boycotting Koch. That's a hard one, they sell so many different things.
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Mar 18, 2022 15:54:19 GMT -5
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 18, 2022 15:59:17 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 18, 2022 16:30:55 GMT -5
the most obvious one is Subway.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 18, 2022 16:32:10 GMT -5
the most obvious one is Subway. They're franchises, though. ETA: I think you probably get this without explanation, but other might not. Russian subway franchisees can easily continue similar concept under different name. Plus, with exchange rates, likely not paying much of a franchise fee regardless. Local franchisees would get hurt by a boycott, but have little to no power to make corporate decisions.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Mar 18, 2022 17:03:33 GMT -5
looking into companies not pulling out of russia.....boycott? Been boycotting koch industries for years, ditto burger king cuz vegan. Is there a list? I will boycott them all! There are on Twitter. I'll look to see if I can find one. Congrats on boycotting Koch. That's a hard one, they sell so many different things. they don'teven deserve my shit on their loo rolls!
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 18, 2022 17:08:52 GMT -5
There are on Twitter. I'll look to see if I can find one. Congrats on boycotting Koch. That's a hard one, they sell so many different things. they don'teven deserve my shit on their loo rolls!
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pooks
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Post by pooks on Mar 18, 2022 17:11:50 GMT -5
I have read that civil liberties groups and American officials are pushing for Cloudflare to stay in Russia, because it is one of the few pathways to nonpropaganda news. I don't know who or what Cloudflare is, so that is all I know.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Mar 18, 2022 17:11:53 GMT -5
the most obvious one is Subway. They're franchises, though. ETA: I think you probably get this without explanation, but other might not. Russian subway franchisees can easily continue similar concept under different name. Plus, with exchange rates, likely not paying much of a franchise fee regardless. Local franchisees would get hurt by a boycott, but have little to no power to make corporate decisions. this needs to be an economic blitzkrieg. put intense economic pressure on russia, have them GTHO of Ukraine, and back to normalish. If we have a bunch of namby pamby companies willywallowing about then this will drag out longer and more people everywhere will be getting hurt. Ukraine, russia, US, everywhere. But I cannot put the economic well being of a subway franchisee over the lives of babies being bombed on in Ukraine. and that's the whole point. this is completely untenable and it is going to take a cohesive and nearly unanimous action by the rest of the world to force russia to reign in putin. Because he doesn't give a shit about anybody, he is telling them to bomb civilian targets. If we aren't going to march over there to help save Ukraine, the least we can do is inconvenience ourselve to make it known where our support is. And if subway were boycotted, I do believe the franchisee would then start to pressure subway to do the right thing. Fuck subway. First jared, and now this. They shouold be leading the pack here to be righeous after jared. #fail
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Mar 18, 2022 17:33:03 GMT -5
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 18, 2022 17:37:22 GMT -5
They're franchises, though. ETA: I think you probably get this without explanation, but other might not. Russian subway franchisees can easily continue similar concept under different name. Plus, with exchange rates, likely not paying much of a franchise fee regardless. Local franchisees would get hurt by a boycott, but have little to no power to make corporate decisions. this needs to be an economic blitzkrieg. put intense economic pressure on russia, have them GTHO of Ukraine, and back to normalish. If we have a bunch of namby pamby companies willywallowing about then this will drag out longer and more people everywhere will be getting hurt. Ukraine, russia, US, everywhere. But I cannot put the economic well being of a subway franchisee over the lives of babies being bombed on in Ukraine. and that's the whole point. this is completely untenable and it is going to take a cohesive and nearly unanimous action by the rest of the world to force russia to reign in putin. Because he doesn't give a shit about anybody, he is telling them to bomb civilian targets. If we aren't going to march over there to help save Ukraine, the least we can do is inconvenience ourselve to make it known where our support is. And if subway were boycotted, I do believe the franchisee would then start to pressure subway to do the right thing. Fuck subway. First jared, and now this. They shouold be leading the pack here to be righeous after jared. #fail But again, Subway (like Burger King) has no real control over local franchisees closing their restaurants. McDonalds was able to close most of their restaurants because they own most of them. Burger King closed the ones that they own. Subway, to my knowledge, does not own any restaurants in Russia. What can they realistically do? I have not gone to any fast-food restaurant in years unless I was travelling so have no loyalty to any of them, but at least be realistic in your outrage. ETA: They are reportedly diverting all profits from Russian business toward helping the Ukrainian people. Counts for something, I would say.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 18, 2022 17:38:10 GMT -5
They're franchises, though. ETA: I think you probably get this without explanation, but other might not. Russian subway franchisees can easily continue similar concept under different name. Plus, with exchange rates, likely not paying much of a franchise fee regardless. Local franchisees would get hurt by a boycott, but have little to no power to make corporate decisions. this needs to be an economic blitzkrieg. put intense economic pressure on russia, have them GTHO of Ukraine, and back to normalish. If we have a bunch of namby pamby companies willywallowing about then this will drag out longer and more people everywhere will be getting hurt. Ukraine, russia, US, everywhere. But I cannot put the economic well being of a subway franchisee over the lives of babies being bombed on in Ukraine. and that's the whole point. this is completely untenable and it is going to take a cohesive and nearly unanimous action by the rest of the world to force russia to reign in putin. Because he doesn't give a shit about anybody, he is telling them to bomb civilian targets. If we aren't going to march over there to help save Ukraine, the least we can do is inconvenience ourselve to make it known where our support is. And if subway were boycotted, I do believe the franchisee would then start to pressure subway to do the right thing. Fuck subway. First jared, and now this. They shouold be leading the pack here to be righeous after jared. #fail I just don't think a boycott of subway franchises in the US is going to do anything at all to help the cause. The Russian stores will simply continue under a different name.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Mar 18, 2022 17:55:53 GMT -5
this needs to be an economic blitzkrieg. put intense economic pressure on russia, have them GTHO of Ukraine, and back to normalish. If we have a bunch of namby pamby companies willywallowing about then this will drag out longer and more people everywhere will be getting hurt. Ukraine, russia, US, everywhere. But I cannot put the economic well being of a subway franchisee over the lives of babies being bombed on in Ukraine. and that's the whole point. this is completely untenable and it is going to take a cohesive and nearly unanimous action by the rest of the world to force russia to reign in putin. Because he doesn't give a shit about anybody, he is telling them to bomb civilian targets. If we aren't going to march over there to help save Ukraine, the least we can do is inconvenience ourselve to make it known where our support is. And if subway were boycotted, I do believe the franchisee would then start to pressure subway to do the right thing. Fuck subway. First jared, and now this. They shouold be leading the pack here to be righeous after jared. #fail But again, no.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Mar 18, 2022 18:01:52 GMT -5
this needs to be an economic blitzkrieg. put intense economic pressure on russia, have them GTHO of Ukraine, and back to normalish. If we have a bunch of namby pamby companies willywallowing about then this will drag out longer and more people everywhere will be getting hurt. Ukraine, russia, US, everywhere. But I cannot put the economic well being of a subway franchisee over the lives of babies being bombed on in Ukraine. and that's the whole point. this is completely untenable and it is going to take a cohesive and nearly unanimous action by the rest of the world to force russia to reign in putin. Because he doesn't give a shit about anybody, he is telling them to bomb civilian targets. If we aren't going to march over there to help save Ukraine, the least we can do is inconvenience ourselve to make it known where our support is. And if subway were boycotted, I do believe the franchisee would then start to pressure subway to do the right thing. Fuck subway. First jared, and now this. They shouold be leading the pack here to be righeous after jared. #fail I just don't think a boycott of subway franchises in the US is going to do anything at all to help the cause. The Russian stores will simply continue under a different name. i don't see how that makes a difference at all if they do something under a different name. the repudiation should be unanimous. there is another dimension to this, and that is letting the russian people know the opinoin of the world on the invasion. they aren't getting any media, but if they see all the american fast food place disappearing, and everything connected to anything outside of russia disappearing, that is cluing them into - a little bit anyway - what is happening, what the world's sentiment is.
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Mar 18, 2022 18:10:00 GMT -5
I just don't think a boycott of subway franchises in the US is going to do anything at all to help the cause. The Russian stores will simply continue under a different name. i don't see how that makes a difference at all if they do something under a different name. the repudiation should be unanimous. there is another dimension to this, and that is letting the russian people know the opinoin of the world on the invasion. they aren't getting any media, but if they see all the american fast food place disappearing, and everything connected to anything outside of russia disappearing, that is cluing them into - a little bit anyway - what is happening, what the world's sentiment is. I think if the Russian people knew the “military exercise” is targeting schools, hospitals, and residential areas, there would be a serious revolt.
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pooks
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Post by pooks on Mar 18, 2022 18:10:30 GMT -5
They're franchises, though. ETA: I think you probably get this without explanation, but other might not. Russian subway franchisees can easily continue similar concept under different name. Plus, with exchange rates, likely not paying much of a franchise fee regardless. Local franchisees would get hurt by a boycott, but have little to no power to make corporate decisions. this needs to be an economic blitzkrieg. put intense economic pressure on russia, have them GTHO of Ukraine, and back to normalish. If we have a bunch of namby pamby companies willywallowing about then this will drag out longer and more people everywhere will be getting hurt. Ukraine, russia, US, everywhere. But I cannot put the economic well being of a subway franchisee over the lives of babies being bombed on in Ukraine. and that's the whole point. this is completely untenable and it is going to take a cohesive and nearly unanimous action by the rest of the world to force russia to reign in putin. Because he doesn't give a shit about anybody, he is telling them to bomb civilian targets. If we aren't going to march over there to help save Ukraine, the least we can do is inconvenience ourselve to make it known where our support is. And if subway were boycotted, I do believe the franchisee would then start to pressure subway to do the right thing. Fuck subway. First jared, and now this. They shouold be leading the pack here to be righeous after jared. #fail I know this will sound weird, but I am focusing all my rage (And it is rage at this point) on China. Without China support, Russia will fold, but so far China has been utter assholes about this. Claiming we need to negotiate peace blah, blah... Sounds all good, but one country invaded another country unprovoked. That army needs to get the fuck out. But China has the same twisted view about the USA as Russia and has been spreading Russian propaganda. So I have been e mailing every company I use that operates/manufactures in China and boycotting Chinese companies and products. My own private Chinese sanctions. China needs to see a downside to this, even if they aren't direct sanctions.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 18, 2022 18:12:10 GMT -5
Wonderfully articulated. The logic of your argument is beyond question.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 18, 2022 18:12:52 GMT -5
I just don't think a boycott of subway franchises in the US is going to do anything at all to help the cause. The Russian stores will simply continue under a different name. i don't see how that makes a difference at all if they do something under a different name. the repudiation should be unanimous.there is another dimension to this, and that is letting the russian people know the opinoin of the world on the invasion. they aren't getting any media, but if they see all the american fast food place disappearing, and everything connected to anything outside of russia disappearing, that is cluing them into - a little bit anyway - what is happening, what the world's sentiment is. I don't think completely isolating Russians from the Western world would help at all. It would simply bring about more tribalism. The best way to bring them on our side is to see themselves as similar. Western brands can be a reminder of that, though I do support the sanctions on principle. @theotherme has a family member who is very knowledgeable who gave an interview on the subject, and her take was very enlightening. Eta, as you the bolded, "we'll do the sub shop a better Russian way, and push out the inferior western brand" I guess it would be, repudiation right back atcha!
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Mar 18, 2022 18:14:24 GMT -5
this needs to be an economic blitzkrieg. put intense economic pressure on russia, have them GTHO of Ukraine, and back to normalish. If we have a bunch of namby pamby companies willywallowing about then this will drag out longer and more people everywhere will be getting hurt. Ukraine, russia, US, everywhere. But I cannot put the economic well being of a subway franchisee over the lives of babies being bombed on in Ukraine. and that's the whole point. this is completely untenable and it is going to take a cohesive and nearly unanimous action by the rest of the world to force russia to reign in putin. Because he doesn't give a shit about anybody, he is telling them to bomb civilian targets. If we aren't going to march over there to help save Ukraine, the least we can do is inconvenience ourselve to make it known where our support is. And if subway were boycotted, I do believe the franchisee would then start to pressure subway to do the right thing. Fuck subway. First jared, and now this. They shouold be leading the pack here to be righeous after jared. #fail I know this will sound weird, but I am focusing all my rage (And it is rage at this point) on China. Without China support, Russia will fold, but so far China has been utter assholes about this. Claiming we need to negotiate peace blah, blah... Sounds all good, but one country invaded another country unprovoked. That army needs to get the fuck out. But China has the same twisted view about the USA as Russia and has been spreading Russian propaganda. So I have been e mailing every company I use that operates/manufactures in China and boycotting Chinese companies and products. My own private Chinese sanctions. China needs to see a downside to this, even if they aren't direct sanctions. I will take this view under advisement . I have been avoiding "made in china" as much as I can for many years, but if you have a list for me to boycott, I will follow it. I love boycotting. But I have so many boycotts going on, sometimes it's hard to keep track of it all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2022 18:30:40 GMT -5
I know this will sound weird, but I am focusing all my rage (And it is rage at this point) on China. Without China support, Russia will fold, but so far China has been utter assholes about this. Claiming we need to negotiate peace blah, blah... Sounds all good, but one country invaded another country unprovoked. That army needs to get the fuck out. But China has the same twisted view about the USA as Russia and has been spreading Russian propaganda. So I have been e mailing every company I use that operates/manufactures in China and boycotting Chinese companies and products. My own private Chinese sanctions. China needs to see a downside to this, even if they aren't direct sanctions. I will take this view under advisement . I have been avoiding "made in china" as much as I can for many years, but if you have a list for me to boycott, I will follow it. I love boycotting. But I have so many boycotts going on, sometimes it's hard to keep track of it all. This post made me chuckle. I use to be good about trying to avoid buying things made in China, but I admit I have slacked up in recent years. Unless it’s a simple item, like clothing, even if it’s “made” elsewhere, it’s kind of difficult to buy things that don’t include some part or piece that was made in China, so it’s not always simple to avoid things coming from China. I will start paying more attention again.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Mar 18, 2022 18:54:28 GMT -5
i don't see how that makes a difference at all if they do something under a different name. the repudiation should be unanimous.there is another dimension to this, and that is letting the russian people know the opinoin of the world on the invasion. they aren't getting any media, but if they see all the american fast food place disappearing, and everything connected to anything outside of russia disappearing, that is cluing them into - a little bit anyway - what is happening, what the world's sentiment is. I don't think completely isolating Russians from the Western world would help at all. It would simply bring about more tribalism. The best way to bring them on our side is to see themselves as similar. Western brands can be a reminder of that, though I do support the sanctions on principle. @theotherme has a family member who is very knowledgeable who gave an interview on the subject, and her take was very enlightening. Eta, as you the bolded, "we'll do the sub shop a better Russian way, and push out the inferior western brand" I guess it would be, repudiation right back atcha! There is a moral imperative here, and speculation about the potential impact is an argument for rather than against. If there was a chance that this action could add one gram to the 10 tons of pressure needed to force russia to rethink this, it should be done. The other side is that continued business relations would bolster russia and delay any impact of the other sanctions against them. No one is doing business in russia as a charitable enterprise, they are making money. To continue to make money with a country that has invaded a neighbor for no reason and is bombing civilians deliberately is repugnant. So any business that is not doing whatever small measure they can to not profit from the bloodshed in Ukraine will not be seeing any money from me.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Mar 18, 2022 19:07:21 GMT -5
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 18, 2022 19:45:30 GMT -5
I don't think completely isolating Russians from the Western world would help at all. It would simply bring about more tribalism. The best way to bring them on our side is to see themselves as similar. Western brands can be a reminder of that, though I do support the sanctions on principle. @theotherme has a family member who is very knowledgeable who gave an interview on the subject, and her take was very enlightening. Eta, as you the bolded, "we'll do the sub shop a better Russian way, and push out the inferior western brand" I guess it would be, repudiation right back atcha! There is a moral imperative here, and speculation about the potential impact is an argument for rather than against. If there was a chance that this action could add one gram to the 10 tons of pressure needed to force russia to rethink this, it should be done. The other side is that continued business relations would bolster russia and delay any impact of the other sanctions against them. No one is doing business in russia as a charitable enterprise, they are making money. To continue to make money with a country that has invaded a neighbor for no reason and is bombing civilians deliberately is repugnant. So any business that is not doing whatever small measure they can to not profit from the bloodshed in Ukraine will not be seeing any money from me. Well, there is also a chance for it to backfire due to isolating the general Russian population too much from the outside world. For me, I only have so much bandwidth for my efforts, so will try to focus more on areas of most potential impact. You sound like you're better at this boycotting stuff than me. I don't know if Koch makes my store-brand TP I buy.
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