Work/ HR question

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Oct 22, 2021 16:37:01 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Oct 22, 2021 14:57:56 GMT -5 Tiny said:

 
That's weird.   Are you sure that's what HR was trying to impart to you?    Or was it more of a how do you navigate having to interact with someone who doesn't fit your "preconcieved" notions?   

No, we had just gone over the part where we talked about building trust with your employees by making them confident you will not judge them or discriminate against them - which is good and important. Then she talked about how to build trust by having deep and meaningful discussions with your employees, including talking about potentially tricky things like politics, sexual preferences, religion, etc. At this point the eager Christian in front of me raised his hand and talked about how he frequently had religious discussions with his employees. The HR lady said it was important to listen to them share about their own religion, not just talk about your own, and the eager Christian said he would let them talk about their religious beliefs, then he shared his - it was a discussion. I don’t think it’s really a discussion. That’s when I raised my hand and said I never discussed religion or politics with my direct reports- never ever- and she said that was sad because it’s through those ‘deep and meaningful’ discussions that we really get to know each other. Which seemed weird to me.

Not my coworkers or manager. It's one thing for me not to have to hide.

It's another for me to feel pressured to share more than I am comfortable divulging with people who can affect my employment. Nobody who isn't family or a close friend needs to be having deep and meaningful conversations with me about my personal life in any form.

I'm fine with people knowing I'm an atheist and talking lightly about it but I'm not getting into a deep conversation about it with people I don't trust.


Like it or not society is still biased I'm not willingly going to hand you ammo. The college I worked at being private absolutely could have fired me over it if I got too vocal. Diversity only goes so far with some employers.

It's not my mangers place to insist I divulge more than I feel safe doing.





I think the HR lady's heart is in the right place but maybe someone from legal should have a chat with her.

[chiver78]

Oct 22, 2021 17:28:26 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

Oct 22, 2021 17:17:16 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Ummmm….. I don’t and have never wanted to talk about personal stuff, politics or religion with any of my bosses. I might ooh and ahh over pictures of children or grandchildren and share funny stories about them, but that’s pretty much it. That’s about as personal as I get with my coworkers too.

I once had a supervisor that was a bully and she didn’t like it that I didn’t tell her anymore than I had to. I requested a few hours off work because I had to go to court. She bugged the shit out of me wanting to know why I had to go to court. Was it a traffic ticket? Did I get sued or sue somebody? I wouldn’t answer any of those questions, because she was just being nosey. I actually had to go to court about the child support case with my children’s father and I wouldn’t have thought twice about saying that to anyone else, but by then, it was almost like a game. She tried to get me to tell her stuff that was none of her business, so I made it my business to tell her as little as possible.

One time, she and her buddies (a couple of my coworkers that were bullies too) were talking about sex. They were in my way, and I was working around them. Supervisor asked me something about sex and I just looked at her and didn’t say anything. So she told me “I bet your p@$$# is dried up and dusty”. I told her “don’t worry about MY p@$$&” and kept working. I knew she was totally unprofessional, but I’m STILL shocked that she said that to me lol.

I’ve always felt if someone has the nerve to ask me personal questions I have the nerve to make up answers. Would give them a years worth of gossip. But  never socialized with coworkers thefew times I worked for large company. I came to work, did my job and left. I never had personal stuff on desk.  Guess that’s why most of my working was with small firm. I’m not a people person in work place. 

OMG! I had completely forgotten about this until your post. my sis/BIL got married 9 years ago. she works at a boarding HS for LD kids, and many of the faculty and staff are graduates. so there's a bit of awkward on the regular. she had been married a year or so, and this one guy kept asking about plans for kids, etc. (they have never even joked about wanting kids...) and finally my sis had enough. I wish I could remember exactly what she said, but it was something to the effect of "I thought if I swallowed, it would get to my belly faster? 🤷‍♀️"

apparently he turned every shade of red in the Crayola box and never bothered her again. I mean, come on. none of that was your business, why would you think it is okay to *keep* asking??

[Tiny]

Oct 22, 2021 16:37:01 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Oct 22, 2021 14:57:56 GMT -5 Tiny said:

 
That's weird.   Are you sure that's what HR was trying to impart to you?    Or was it more of a how do you navigate having to interact with someone who doesn't fit your "preconcieved" notions?   

No, we had just gone over the part where we talked about building trust with your employees by making them confident you will not judge them or discriminate against them - which is good and important. Then she talked about how to build trust by having deep and meaningful discussions with your employees, including talking about potentially tricky things like politics, sexual preferences, religion, etc. At this point the eager Christian in front of me raised his hand and talked about how he frequently had religious discussions with his employees. The HR lady said it was important to listen to them share about their own religion, not just talk about your own, and the eager Christian said he would let them talk about their religious beliefs, then he shared his - it was a discussion. I don’t think it’s really a discussion. That’s when I raised my hand and said I never discussed religion or politics with my direct reports- never ever- and she said that was sad because it’s through those ‘deep and meaningful’ discussions that we really get to know each other. Which seemed weird to me.

If you work for an employer that is actively trying to create a "dystopian future" . It could be the HR Lady answered your question in a frightening truthful way. And that you should expect to be asked which of your staff "aren't cut from the same cloth as the employer" or which of your staff have "moral failings" that make them a poor fit for their position - because you will have "really gotten to know them" thru "deep and meaningful discussions".

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

It's not a discussion if there is a power imbalance.

Your boss is not your friend. If they want more than surface details it's called Google.

[happyhoix]

Oct 22, 2021 16:54:15 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Oct 22, 2021 16:37:01 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

No, we had just gone over the part where we talked about building trust with your employees by making them confident you will not judge them or discriminate against them - which is good and important. Then she talked about how to build trust by having deep and meaningful discussions with your employees, including talking about potentially tricky things like politics, sexual preferences, religion, etc. At this point the eager Christian in front of me raised his hand and talked about how he frequently had religious discussions with his employees. The HR lady said it was important to listen to them share about their own religion, not just talk about your own, and the eager Christian said he would let them talk about their religious beliefs, then he shared his - it was a discussion. I don’t think it’s really a discussion. That’s when I raised my hand and said I never discussed religion or politics with my direct reports- never ever- and she said that was sad because it’s through those ‘deep and meaningful’ discussions that we really get to know each other. Which seemed weird to me.

Holy Crap!!! I'm pretty sure that's NOT appropriate. I work for, um, lawyers... and I would have to say my employer has the most "law abiding" policies imaginable along with a commitment to providing a "safe" work place.... and what your HR person suggested would probably make my employer's HR people go pale.

I think HR lady has good intentions. Possibly she’s really into really getting to know your coworkers because she’s perky and extroverted and really loves to chat and hang out?

As someone who is very introverted and somewhat socially awkward I can’t think of anything worse than sharing my religious or political views IRL - this board is the only place I discuss politics (except for DH).

I can talk about books, or Netflix shows, or movies, but try to share your sexual views with me at work and I’ll shrink up like a deflated ballon and sidle out of the room.

[azucena]

Going to ask this question because I've wondered it for a while but never had a place to safely ask. Not meaning any offense. Here goes. My actuarial professional society has 1-2 lgbtq events at our annual meeting. It started within the last 6-7 yrs because I can remember mtgs without them. It just seems weird to me. One is usually an informal networking and I'm not sure about the other one. Other networking events are by line of business. Nothing by age/generation or race (but actuaries aren't very racially diverse). So it just seems out of place. Like another poster stated just seems like it should be left out of the workplace. Thoughts? Looking to be enlightened.

[NoNamePerson]

Oct 22, 2021 19:04:01 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Oct 22, 2021 17:28:26 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

I’ve always felt if someone has the nerve to ask me personal questions I have the nerve to make up answers. Would give them a years worth of gossip. But  never socialized with coworkers thefew times I worked for large company. I came to work, did my job and left. I never had personal stuff on desk.  Guess that’s why most of my working was with small firm. I’m not a people person in work place. 

OMG! I had completely forgotten about this until your post. my sis/BIL got married 9 years ago. she works at a boarding HS for LD kids, and many of the faculty and staff are graduates. so there's a bit of awkward on the regular. she had been married a year or so, and this one guy kept asking about plans for kids, etc. (they have never even joked about wanting kids...) and finally my sis had enough. I wish I could remember exactly what she said, but it was something to the effect of "I thought if I swallowed, it would get to my belly faster? 🤷‍♀️"

apparently he turned every shade of red in the Crayola box and never bothered her again. I mean, come on. none of that was your business, why would you think it is okay to *keep* asking??

 Sounds like something I would have said. Good for her!

[finnime]

Oct 22, 2021 19:52:47 GMT -5 azucena said:

Going to ask this question because I've wondered it for a while but never had a place to safely ask. Not meaning any offense. Here goes. My actuarial professional society has 1-2 lgbtq events at our annual meeting. It started within the last 6-7 yrs because I can remember mtgs without them. It just seems weird to me. One is usually an informal networking and I'm not sure about the other one. Other networking events are by line of business. Nothing by age/generation or race (but actuaries aren't very racially diverse). So it just seems out of place. Like another poster stated just seems like it should be left out of the workplace. Thoughts? Looking to be enlightened.

I would imagine this arose out of a need for a minority in this profession to be appropriately open. Are there companies where this minority is accepted but not fully, e.g., assumptions are automatic about the gender of SO's and where being single after a certain age is unusual? Are promotions expected and given to the white straight people and minorities not welcomed into the same growth paths? I don't know. But I have worked with people in professions such as banking, insurance and accounting that strongly favor their 'golden boys' for professional development.

[Lizard Queen]

/photo/1

[raeoflyte]

Oct 22, 2021 19:52:47 GMT -5 azucena said:

Going to ask this question because I've wondered it for a while but never had a place to safely ask. Not meaning any offense. Here goes. My actuarial professional society has 1-2 lgbtq events at our annual meeting. It started within the last 6-7 yrs because I can remember mtgs without them. It just seems weird to me. One is usually an informal networking and I'm not sure about the other one. Other networking events are by line of business. Nothing by age/generation or race (but actuaries aren't very racially diverse). So it just seems out of place. Like another poster stated just seems like it should be left out of the workplace. Thoughts? Looking to be enlightened.

I think it's about being seen. I dont know how to explain it. I work for a very white, straight and Christian organization, and I blend in really well which I guess is good. But I'm only 1 of those 3. I hear all of the conversations about Chaz Bono and Kaitlyn Jenner. About how the schools teach that being gay is OK and how they reframe that at home. It's subtle and they aren't bad people. But it's uncomfortable.

The people who know about me at work at this point mostly hear through rumor, but I've been asked some ridiculous questions that I have to answer tactfully regardless of how inappropriate the question is.

Another thought...it's shared experiences. I like my coworkers but I don't have a lot in common with them. In a diverse work place there's more comraderie in the differences. But when the diversity is minimal to non-existent the group think is very othering for someone on the outside.

I think meetings like you've described make it easier to bring in diversity. Maybe make it a safer place to be different.

[laterbloomer]

Oct 22, 2021 19:52:47 GMT -5 azucena said:

Going to ask this question because I've wondered it for a while but never had a place to safely ask. Not meaning any offense. Here goes. My actuarial professional society has 1-2 lgbtq events at our annual meeting. It started within the last 6-7 yrs because I can remember mtgs without them. It just seems weird to me. One is usually an informal networking and I'm not sure about the other one. Other networking events are by line of business. Nothing by age/generation or race (but actuaries aren't very racially diverse). So it just seems out of place. Like another poster stated just seems like it should be left out of the workplace. Thoughts? Looking to be enlightened.

What is an lgbtq event? What other events happen at your annual meeting? I need more info to make any sense of it

[laterbloomer]

Oct 22, 2021 14:21:05 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Oct 22, 2021 12:41:25 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

But that is the thing.  Back in the days of don't ask don't tell someone who is gay couldn't even mention they went on vacation with their same sex spouse because that was considered getting "too detailed" and nobody wants to know about your icky same sex life.

Yet I can talk about my vacation with my husband freely.  We have kids so you know I obviously had sex at least twice in our marriage but yet me talking about my husband in day to day conversation would not have been considered inappropriate.

Because straight marriage is the norm/ideal.  Not being homophobic isn't just about not caring someone is gay it's about a gay person being able to have the same discussions and same conversations as a straight person without fear of repercussions.

A Muslim coworker shouldn't have to participate in Christian prayer.  Telling them "well just pray silently to your own God" isn't acceptable.  You can say you don't care they are Muslim but the fact you tell them to be quiet because it's "not appropriate" for them speak up during your prayer sends the clear message you really aren't Okay with it.

There are going to be people who are obnoxious but that is life.  You have every right to tell your missionary co-worker you aren't interested in the subject and not talk to him.   To say that this training is a bad thing because of a handful of obnoxious people suggests the point of the training seems to have been lost.

I wasn’t clear in my complaint. The training was fine. Everyone should be able to live their true life without hiding. I’m not arguing that point.

My problem was that the HR manager advised all the managers to hold deep, in depth discussions about all aspects of life, including religion and politics. You go to work to work. You work with coworkers not friends. There shouldn’t be any deep discussions about anything other than work projects. If you end up becoming friends with people you work with, great - meet for lunch, go for drinks, talk about whatever you want. But not at work, on the clock.

by advocating these intense sharing sessions, I think HR encouraged the religiously devoted manager to continue to engage his direct reports in his religious testimonials on the pretext of ‘sharing the real him.’ That’s a mistake. I think HR will be getting complaints from that department.

My new company is really big on DEI and I had attended A LOT of training about this stuff and have never heard anything remotely like this. The "deep and in depth conversations" about personal topics is just plain weird. Especially considering how many members of diverse communities would feel very intimidated by this. Something got lost in translation.

[happyhoix]

Oct 22, 2021 19:52:47 GMT -5 azucena said:

Going to ask this question because I've wondered it for a while but never had a place to safely ask. Not meaning any offense. Here goes. My actuarial professional society has 1-2 lgbtq events at our annual meeting. It started within the last 6-7 yrs because I can remember mtgs without them. It just seems weird to me. One is usually an informal networking and I'm not sure about the other one. Other networking events are by line of business. Nothing by age/generation or race (but actuaries aren't very racially diverse). So it just seems out of place. Like another poster stated just seems like it should be left out of the workplace. Thoughts? Looking to be enlightened.

I work for a progressive company and they have all kinds of events like this. A whole month for lgbtq, a month for women, a month for diversity. The have employees that make videos about being gay/female/ disabled. Some speakers in virtual meetings. Posters, banners, short videos on the closed circuit TVs in the halls and break rooms.

It’s to raise awareness and encourage diversity. They do the same kind of thing for sustainability.

[Deleted]

Oct 22, 2021 19:52:47 GMT -5 azucena said:

Going to ask this question because I've wondered it for a while but never had a place to safely ask. Not meaning any offense. Here goes. My actuarial professional society has 1-2 lgbtq events at our annual meeting. It started within the last 6-7 yrs because I can remember mtgs without them. It just seems weird to me. One is usually an informal networking and I'm not sure about the other one. Other networking events are by line of business. Nothing by age/generation or race (but actuaries aren't very racially diverse). So it just seems out of place. Like another poster stated just seems like it should be left out of the workplace. Thoughts? Looking to be enlightened.

I'm a retired property-casualty actuary.  Insurance has been pretty stodgy although I've met gay underwriters over the years when I worked in the NYC area. It just wasn't talked about, even if you had good "gaydar" and thought they might be.  I mentioned the one in the office next to me who went through the death of his partner from AIDS and never told anyone in the office.    

It's getting better- about 20 years ago we elected a President of the society whom I knew from work at a sister company and knew he was single.  He brought a male partner with him to the meetings.  Radical stuff back then but a couple of years ago we elected another gay man who was engaged to be married and more open about it.  

So, progress is slow.  I can see networking events even though they may be in unrelated aspects of the business because being gay in some workplaces can still be awkward.  How "out" should you be?  (The friend whose partner died finally had to break the news to his boss when the boss kept trying to set him up with nice women he knew.)  And how do you deal with coworkers whose religion takes a harsh stand against homosexuality?  

And, what the heck, you may meet people with whom you can do business or find a new job knowing that your sexuality is known and not an issue.  Just like straight white men have done for ages.

What other types of events do you have at your meetings?

[TheOtherMe]

I knew far too many people at my career job and the jobs I had in my retirement who would not attend events because they were not comfortable bringing their partner.  

I'm happy my cousin and his partner are very out and feel no need to hide.