Work/ HR question

[happyhoix]

We had diversity training today at work. I’m old, I’ve been around a while, this is not my first diversity class. 

Except - the previous classes all stressed that you can think whatever you want about other people, you just can’t act on it. Treat everyone with equal respect. Promote based on talent, not on any subliminal biases. Never discuss polarizing subjects like race or politics at work. 

Only now - HR told us today that in order to create an atmosphere of trust and diversity at work, everyone has to feel free to be their ‘true’ self and talk about their gay lifestyle, or their Druid circle, or their devotion to Ted Cruz, and everyone else has to be accepting and encouraging. 

So what happened here? My whole career, I was told work is where you go to work. Coworkers are not friends. Don’t talk religion or politics. Be polite, be kind, treat people equality, but don’t try to be friends. Basically, don’t ask. MYOB. 

So is this the way things are now, or is it just my company?  And I don’t want to be pals with my department. I could care less who they sleep with or what God they pray to, if any.  I just need them to do their jobs. 

[raeoflyte]

It's the idea that hetero-normative Christian (and white) lifestyles are the status quote and acceptable, and anything else has to be kept under wraps.

I doubt that they want people talking explicitly about how great their gay sex was last night. But I should be able to talk about my wife without raising eyebrows. Or that my spouse and I are mentoring Trans kids.

I run the toddler class during Buddhist chanting circles, or my Wiccan coven has a bake sale this weekend to raise money for the animal shelter, would love it if you can come. None of those are talking about politics or religion in a way that needs to be shut down. It's just being able to freely share life without the straight, Christian acceptable filter.

[Tennesseer]

I had an employee come to me about discussions her workgroup peers were having during work hours.  One of their co-workers was gay and they all asked him sex questions including the person who came to speak to me.  She said she was now uncomfortable with the discussions.  I told her I would speak to her work group.

My conversation with the workgroup basically came down to while at work just discuss work stuff.  Let's keep the personal stuff for after work.

The employee who first came to me came back about two weeks later.  I asked her if she came back to me because the workgroup was once again asking the gay employee questions about sex.  She told me no, there was no sex talk during work.

So I asked her how can I help you then.  The employee said while there is no sex talk she can't get the previous sex conversations out of her head.

I told her there was nothing I or HR could do to help her stop thinking about it.  But I did give her the 1-800 number to our People Help benefit where she could speak to a psychologist about her issue(s).

Nothing wrong with having a picture of your spouse or partner on your desk or in your cubicle be the spouse/partner be same or opposite sex. If someone asks you a question about the person feel free to provide general information. If the person wants more details, schedule it for after work.

[finnime]

What raeoflyte said.

There are varying work cultures, and what is for some TMI would just be being open in others. But in either case, it must be okay and comfortable for people to fast during Ramadan or pray five times a day, or celebrate Kwanzaa with a trip to Beliz, or raise their triplets as vegan, or take off Yom Kippur, or support wild donkeys, or post pictures of their SOs or extended families, or whatever and refer to these without it being an issue for anyone. The big thing is do they do their jobs satisfactorily, practice acceptable personal hygiene and not be intrusive to coworkers but helpful to accomplishing work.

I'm very introverted and also from New England. I would be uncomfortable with sharing any number of aspects of my life that others wouldn't think twice about. That has to be okay, too.

[Deleted]

Oct 21, 2021 23:27:11 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I had an employee come to me about discussions her workgroup peers were having during work hours.  One of their co-workers was gay and they all asked him sex questions including the person who came to speak to me. 

That's TMI.  Really.  In 38 years of working I have NEVER heard a discussion about what my coworkers do with their partners in their bedroom- male or female, gay or hetero.  I did have a male coworker who was gay and never knew till I joined a church that he and his partner (now husband) attended.  I later found out that his previous partner had died of AIDS and no one at work ever knew what he was going through or when his partner died.  I can't imagine what that was like for him.  So, yes, I can see why someone who's gay should be able to have a picture of his/her partner in the office, bring them to company events, etc. without fear of disapproval.

I think we all need to be able to change the subject if the discussion gets uncomfortable for us.  I had one boss, an otherwise extraordinary man, who got involved head over heels in The Forum, a movement that grew out of est (Erhard Seminars Training), which involved long sessions in which you weren't even allowed bathroom breaks and they eventually broke you down emotionally, and all kinds of training courses that were supposed to build you into a better person.  He kept telling me how great it was and how everyone into the department should take it... I finally told him that his hard sell was turning me off of it and he stopped trying to sell me on it.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Oct 21, 2021 21:20:28 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

We had diversity training today at work. I’m old, I’ve been around a while, this is not my first diversity class. 

Except - the previous classes all stressed that you can think whatever you want about other people, you just can’t act on it. Treat everyone with equal respect. Promote based on talent, not on any subliminal biases. Never discuss polarizing subjects like race or politics at work. 

Only now - HR told us today that in order to create an atmosphere of trust and diversity at work, everyone has to feel free to be their ‘true’ self and talk about their gay lifestyle, or their Druid circle, or their devotion to Ted Cruz, and everyone else has to be accepting and encouraging. 

So what happened here? My whole career, I was told work is where you go to work. Coworkers are not friends. Don’t talk religion or politics. Be polite, be kind, treat people equality, but don’t try to be friends. Basically, don’t ask. MYOB. 

So is this the way things are now, or is it just my company?  And I don’t want to be pals with my department. I could care less who they sleep with or what God they pray to, if any.  I just need them to do their jobs. 

I should be able to say "My wife and I went on vacation" just like you can say "My husband and I went on vacation" without fear of you running to HR and ending up a target simply because I mentioned I have a wife instead of a husband.  If you can have a light up nativity at your desk for Christmas I should be able to have a symbol of my religion on my desk without you getting your panties in a wad.

An excellent example of this is my mom used to work for a private Catholic hospital.  Since they are private they can do whatever they want.  One of those things is a daily Catholic prayer that you are expected to participate in as a employee.  Oh you don't have to pray out loud you can "pray to whatever God you believe in" but do you have any idea the type of pressure that puts on someone who isn't Catholic?  

They make a big show of "treating people with equal respect" but do you really think someone who is Muslim is going to feel comfortable getting out their prayer rug during a Catholic mass?  Probably not.  There is intense pressure to keep your mouth shut and conform to the ideals of the company.   We don't care if your Muslim. .. so long as you don't act like one.  But we still expect you to respect our religious freedom.

THAT is the kind of bull shit your training is talking about.

[Lizard Queen]

Yeah, I think it's about feeling like you don't have to hide who you are at work, not oversharing intimate details.  I mean, I guess if you really want to, keep it discreet, but they should know that if you can't have it on your computer at work, it's probably not acceptable work talk.

[Lizard Queen]

BTW, your work seems to be higher on the DEI maturity model than my employer. I'm in a workgroup for DEI (and a little frustrated with the glacial pace my work is progressing with it). Have you encountered any training program that you thought was beneficial? 

[TheOtherMe]

When I worked for the Catholic University, I was required to attend the beginning of school year mass.  I'm not Catholic.  I've only been to Catholic churches for weddings and funerals.

I felt very uncomfortable and like I didn't fit in the entire time because I didn't fit in.

When I was in the Catholic hospital here, a prayer came over the intercom every day at noon.  While it was intrusive as far as I was concerned, I didn't listen to it.

[billisonboard]

The degree to which one could suspend their emotions and humanity in work environments has been an important factor for success in modern society. Thy name is "professionalism". I think that is a god we no longer idolize. 

[Tennesseer]

One of the HR managers I once reported to brought in about six young adult Southern Baptist religious books she was done with reading. She put the books on a department bookshelf for the workgroup to read if they wish. When I saw them I swept them into the trash can. There was no reason for the books to be in the workplace.

Another time I was covering for the HR rep matrixed to our company's HR division while she was on vacation. A managing director called me with a concern (complaint) that her boss, one of the HR veeps was ending all his emails he sent to his organization with quotes from the Bible. The managing director asked me to tell the veep to stop attaching the Bible quotes. I went to the veep's office and told him to stop it. He complied.

HR is sometimes one of the worst offenders of violating what they as a department preach to the rest of the company employees: keep religion, politics, and other divisive issues out of the workplace.

[happyhoix]

Oct 22, 2021 8:54:12 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The degree to which one could suspend their emotions and humanity in work environments has been an important factor for success in modern society. Thy name is "professionalism". I think that is a god we no longer idolize. 

I agree. Work is for working. I don’t need to know the details of your life. I just need to not be racist, sexist, ageist, or any of the other obnoxious ists.

During this training there was a guy in front of my who talked about his devout Christian beliefs, which is fine, but apparently he holds ‘deep conversations’ about his religion beliefs with coworkers, including one of the HR ladies doing the training. It seemed to me he was actively trying to convert his coworkers, and I’m afraid HRs instructions to speak freely and be yourself will encourage him.

This is why I don’t think it’s appropriate to talk about religion at work, other than maybe a mention that your kid is in the Methodist church Christmas pageant.

[happyhoix]

Oct 22, 2021 8:09:41 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

BTW, your work seems to be higher on the DEI maturity model than my employer. I'm in a workgroup for DEI (and a little frustrated with the glacial pace my work is progressing with it). Have you encountered any training program that you thought was beneficial? 

I work for a progressive European company so yes we’re ahead of a lot of US companies in certain areas. Zero landfill for instance.

This program was From the People Development Learning Institute and was called challenge your bias- it was good. You might want to also check YouTube, there were some good short videos played that were developed by other companies. One was Google, I remember. They may be public on YouTube.

[Tennesseer]

Forgot this one:  my HR managing director had an all-day meeting for her organization.  Catered lunch time came around and the director asked all the employees to gather in a circle to say Grace.  I made a bee-line to the conference room door for a restroom visit while Grace was said.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

When I was working, it was necessary to keep all of this out of the workplace.  We had so many diverse attitudes that had anyone had any discussions, WWIII would have broken out.  We had people from so many different countries where there had been centuries of fighting, that those discussions just didn’t happen.

Ironically enough, the biggest battle happened when one guy who was a preacher in his down time came into work with bible verses on his t shirt.  Another woman came in with a t shirt with ‘Born again Wiccan’ on it to make a point.  Both were Americans!

[Deleted]

Oct 22, 2021 11:17:42 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Ironically enough, the biggest battle happened when one guy who was a preacher in his down time came into work with bible verses on his t shirt.  Another woman came in with a t shirt with ‘Born again Wiccan’ on it to make a point.  Both were Americans!

I have a T-shirt from DH's old church in NJ that has a bible verse on it- "And the greatest of these is love".  The name of the church is on the back.  I never wore T-shirts to work but if I worked in a place where that was common I'd probably throw it on without thinking.  I would not, however, get in a battle with anyone over it!

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Oct 22, 2021 10:25:12 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Oct 22, 2021 8:54:12 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The degree to which one could suspend their emotions and humanity in work environments has been an important factor for success in modern society. Thy name is "professionalism". I think that is a god we no longer idolize. 

I agree. Work is for working. I don’t need to know the details of your life. I just need to not be racist, sexist, ageist, or any of the other obnoxious ists.

But that is the thing.  Back in the days of don't ask don't tell someone who is gay couldn't even mention they went on vacation with their same sex spouse because that was considered getting "too detailed" and nobody wants to know about your icky same sex life.

Yet I can talk about my vacation with my husband freely.  We have kids so you know I obviously had sex at least twice in our marriage but yet me talking about my husband in day to day conversation would not have been considered inappropriate.

Because straight marriage is the norm/ideal.  Not being homophobic isn't just about not caring someone is gay it's about a gay person being able to have the same discussions and same conversations as a straight person without fear of repercussions.

A Muslim coworker shouldn't have to participate in Christian prayer.  Telling them "well just pray silently to your own God" isn't acceptable.  You can say you don't care they are Muslim but the fact you tell them to be quiet because it's "not appropriate" for them speak up during your prayer sends the clear message you really aren't Okay with it.

There are going to be people who are obnoxious but that is life.  You have every right to tell your missionary co-worker you aren't interested in the subject and not talk to him.   To say that this training is a bad thing because of a handful of obnoxious people suggests the point of the training seems to have been lost.

[Value Buy]

Oct 22, 2021 8:54:12 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The degree to which one could suspend their emotions and humanity in work environments has been an important factor for success in modern society. Thy name is "professionalism". I think that is a god we no longer idolize. 

This is why the country will eventually have all robots working at all jobs.

I am thinking eventually each person will own their personal robot that is at a corporation doing your job at "your own personal work station" at work. He is your avatar and personal slave. You will receive correspondence praising your robot's performance on a quarterly schedule or, get the old pink slip notice he is no longer working and has been terminated for poor performance and it is being delivered to you in a box at your front door. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Oct 22, 2021 12:31:14 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Oct 22, 2021 11:17:42 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Ironically enough, the biggest battle happened when one guy who was a preacher in his down time came into work with bible verses on his t shirt.  Another woman came in with a t shirt with ‘Born again Wiccan’ on it to make a point.  Both were Americans!

I have a T-shirt from DH's old church in NJ that has a bible verse on it- "And the greatest of these is love".  The name of the church is on the back.  I never wore T-shirts to work but if I worked in a place where that was common I'd probably throw it on without thinking.  I would not, however, get in a battle with anyone over it!

This wasn’t that, unfortunately.  There had been quite a bit of proselytizing going on before this.  One of his church members was in our lab when our dishwasher tried to do this with our Muslim post-doc.  I shut that one down then and there, telling her that the post doc (my Turkish friend) does not discuss her religion with you, you need to afford her the same respect.  She backed off.

But with this guy, he had been niggling her for awhile so she went out and got this shirt made to shut him down.  It worked.  

I wore t shirts to work on occasion, but considered any with slogans (regardless of slogan) wear at home only……like most others.

[happyhoix]

Oct 22, 2021 12:41:25 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Oct 22, 2021 10:25:12 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I agree. Work is for working. I don’t need to know the details of your life. I just need to not be racist, sexist, ageist, or any of the other obnoxious ists.

But that is the thing.  Back in the days of don't ask don't tell someone who is gay couldn't even mention they went on vacation with their same sex spouse because that was considered getting "too detailed" and nobody wants to know about your icky same sex life.

Yet I can talk about my vacation with my husband freely.  We have kids so you know I obviously had sex at least twice in our marriage but yet me talking about my husband in day to day conversation would not have been considered inappropriate.

Because straight marriage is the norm/ideal.  Not being homophobic isn't just about not caring someone is gay it's about a gay person being able to have the same discussions and same conversations as a straight person without fear of repercussions.

A Muslim coworker shouldn't have to participate in Christian prayer.  Telling them "well just pray silently to your own God" isn't acceptable.  You can say you don't care they are Muslim but the fact you tell them to be quiet because it's "not appropriate" for them speak up during your prayer sends the clear message you really aren't Okay with it.

There are going to be people who are obnoxious but that is life.  You have every right to tell your missionary co-worker you aren't interested in the subject and not talk to him.   To say that this training is a bad thing because of a handful of obnoxious people suggests the point of the training seems to have been lost.

I wasn’t clear in my complaint. The training was fine. Everyone should be able to live their true life without hiding. I’m not arguing that point.

My problem was that the HR manager advised all the managers to hold deep, in depth discussions about all aspects of life, including religion and politics. You go to work to work. You work with coworkers not friends. There shouldn’t be any deep discussions about anything other than work projects. If you end up becoming friends with people you work with, great - meet for lunch, go for drinks, talk about whatever you want. But not at work, on the clock.

by advocating these intense sharing sessions, I think HR encouraged the religiously devoted manager to continue to engage his direct reports in his religious testimonials on the pretext of ‘sharing the real him.’ That’s a mistake. I think HR will be getting complaints from that department.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Oct 22, 2021 14:21:05 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Oct 22, 2021 12:41:25 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

But that is the thing.  Back in the days of don't ask don't tell someone who is gay couldn't even mention they went on vacation with their same sex spouse because that was considered getting "too detailed" and nobody wants to know about your icky same sex life.

Yet I can talk about my vacation with my husband freely.  We have kids so you know I obviously had sex at least twice in our marriage but yet me talking about my husband in day to day conversation would not have been considered inappropriate.

Because straight marriage is the norm/ideal.  Not being homophobic isn't just about not caring someone is gay it's about a gay person being able to have the same discussions and same conversations as a straight person without fear of repercussions.

A Muslim coworker shouldn't have to participate in Christian prayer.  Telling them "well just pray silently to your own God" isn't acceptable.  You can say you don't care they are Muslim but the fact you tell them to be quiet because it's "not appropriate" for them speak up during your prayer sends the clear message you really aren't Okay with it.

There are going to be people who are obnoxious but that is life.  You have every right to tell your missionary co-worker you aren't interested in the subject and not talk to him.   To say that this training is a bad thing because of a handful of obnoxious people suggests the point of the training seems to have been lost.

I wasn’t clear in my complaint. The training was fine. Everyone should be able to live their true life without hiding. I’m not arguing that point.

My problem was that the HR manager advised all the managers to hold deep, in depth discussions about all aspects of life, including religion and politics. You go to work to work. You work with coworkers not friends. There shouldn’t be any deep discussions about anything other than work projects. If you end up becoming friends with people you work with, great - meet for lunch, go for drinks, talk about whatever you want. But not at work, on the clock.

by advocating these intense sharing sessions, I think HR encouraged the religiously devoted manager to continue to engage his direct reports in his religious testimonials on the pretext of ‘sharing the real him.’ That’s a mistake. I think HR will be getting complaints from that department.

Oh okay.  HR manager apparently totally misunderstood then.   Personally I don't care if my coworkers talk politics or religion among themselves so long as I am not expected to engage if I don't want to and don't be shocked if my opinion changes about you depending on the subject.

But my manager trying to have deep in depth conversations with me?  No there is too much of a power imbalance in the relationship.  What may seem like an "in depth" conversation to the manager may come off to me as pressure for me to convert.  I have no clue if this discussion will come back to haunt me, it's a position an employee shouldn't be put in.

[Tiny]

 

Only now - HR told us today that in order to create an atmosphere of trust and diversity at work, everyone has to feel free to be their ‘true’ self and talk about their gay lifestyle, or their Druid circle, or their devotion to Ted Cruz, and everyone else has to be accepting and encouraging.

That's weird.   Are you sure that's what HR was trying to impart to you?    Or was it more of a how do you navigate having to interact with someone who doesn't fit your "preconcieved" notions?    You know - so that when something about spouses or Significant others comes up - someone who's in a same sex relationship  MIGHT actually feel comfortable enough to mention their significant other (or spouse) rather than evade the issue all together.      Or so that someone with a same sex spouse/significant other MIGHT actually feel comfortable coming to a work function as a couple - just like all the heterosexual couples do....     
  

Our recent diversity training was more along the lines of what's appropriate behavior when someone introduces  themselves with Hi! My name is  <insert a name here>  my pronouns are he,him,his.    OR  when someone you know transitions to another gender OR you suddenly realize you've been working with someone who's transgender for several years - what is and is not appropriate to say and do.     

And a bit of training on some 'scripts' that can be used to cope with those few awkward moments in meetings when everyone goes around the table and introduces themselves (and there's a "uh oh!  that person doesn't fit into the gender binary I'm so very use to!  what do I say? what's a professional/appropriate way to say/act?"  

I don't see that this is any different than the training we got for what to say and how to behave when someone has a disability.    Or for people with religious obligations during the day.   

I see it as basically - removing the "It's NOT  ok  if people find out you are X"   and changing it to "it's ok... you aren't an outsider - you don't need to lie or be evasive anymore." 

I seem to remember a time when women in the business world - weren't allowed in to the "boys club" and needed to be something they weren't (or needed to lie be evasive) to get and keep their job(s).    How is the sexual orientation/gender identity thing different?    


(Not to mention I was an in the closet AD& D   player - for 30 plus years.   I no longer have to hide or lie about what I do when I'm going to get together with friends.   I no long have to be evasive and let people assume I was out drinking til to 4am  if we have a late running game.    I can just say "yeah, long game last night it was EPIC!!!"  and other people may ask about the game - or go "that's nice!" in a smile and nod way.  and then the conversation goes somewhere else.    

[Deleted]

This is an interesting discussion.  I am some years out of the work environment so these are new considerations for me. 

I can't imagine in-depth discussions with coworkers on politics, religion, or sexual orientation and activity. Period.  I can be me just fine without feeling compelled to overshare.  I guess I'm a little stunned that someone's sexual orientation or religion is even an issue anymore.  

I appreciate the thoughts on healthy responses to introductions involving preferred pronouns-this is a situation I sometimes encounter during my volunteer work.  Personally, I appreciate the guidance some provide on their business cards or in correspondence and I try to remember their choices.  

[Deleted]

Several years ago, we had a transgender employee that started off working in our building, then moved to another building. A few years later, when she was coming back to work in our building again, my employer made a real mess of it imo.

Apparently, some ladies at the other building had issues with her using the ladies’ restrooms, and some other things happened that I never knew the details on.

So during the weeks leading up to her coming back to work at our building, it was mandatory that every supervisor or manager, have a meeting with every employee to lay down the law with us about her. If an employee wasn’t at work the day the manager had the meeting with that employee’s department, the manager had to make sure they had the meeting with that employee when they came back to work. They really made a BFD about it, and we had to sign, saying we’d had the “talk” with management.

What I got out of what we were told, was to just not say anything at all to her. The way they talked, any friendly non-personal conversation could get you in trouble, subject to disciplinary action. So for years, I wouldn’t say anything at all to her. I’d nod my head “hello” in passing, and keep it moving. Whereas if they hadn’t tried to put the fear of Jesus in us, I would’ve been just as friendly with her as I am to most people at work. Gay, bi, transgender, whatever, none of it has anything to do with how I treat a person. I don’t go to work to make friends, but I’m cordial and might engage in random, non personal chit chat. But not with her, because they might as well have stamped a big T for TROUBLE on her forehead. 

I’m sure they were just trying to cover their asses, but I think they did her a disservice the way they went about it. For one, everybody in the building knew her business before many people had even laid eyes on her, so they kind of made her into a spectacle that people were waiting to see. I’m fairly open minded, and even I walked away with a negative perception about the whole thing, including feeling negative about interacting with or even talking to her, without knowing anything about her other than she was transgender. 

There’s another woman that works in the building, that is married to a woman. Pretty much nobody wants to hear anything about her wife. But that’s because you can be talking about the most random thing, whether there is life in outer space, and she’ll still find a way to make her wife part of the conversation. They aren’t newlyweds, so it’s not the giddiness of having recently gotten married. If she was talking about a husband instead of a wife, nobody would want to hear it still. She’s just annoying, period! and it has nothing to do with her being married to a woman.

[happyhoix]

Oct 22, 2021 14:57:56 GMT -5 Tiny said:

 

Only now - HR told us today that in order to create an atmosphere of trust and diversity at work, everyone has to feel free to be their ‘true’ self and talk about their gay lifestyle, or their Druid circle, or their devotion to Ted Cruz, and everyone else has to be accepting and encouraging.

That's weird.   Are you sure that's what HR was trying to impart to you?    Or was it more of a how do you navigate having to interact with someone who doesn't fit your "preconcieved" notions?   

No, we had just gone over the part where we talked about building trust with your employees by making them confident you will not judge them or discriminate against them - which is good and important. Then she talked about how to build trust by having deep and meaningful discussions with your employees, including talking about potentially tricky things like politics, sexual preferences, religion, etc. At this point the eager Christian in front of me raised his hand and talked about how he frequently had religious discussions with his employees. The HR lady said it was important to listen to them share about their own religion, not just talk about your own, and the eager Christian said he would let them talk about their religious beliefs, then he shared his - it was a discussion. I don’t think it’s really a discussion. That’s when I raised my hand and said I never discussed religion or politics with my direct reports- never ever- and she said that was sad because it’s through those ‘deep and meaningful’ discussions that we really get to know each other. Which seemed weird to me.

[Tiny]

Oct 22, 2021 16:37:01 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Oct 22, 2021 14:57:56 GMT -5 Tiny said:

 
That's weird.   Are you sure that's what HR was trying to impart to you?    Or was it more of a how do you navigate having to interact with someone who doesn't fit your "preconcieved" notions?   

No, we had just gone over the part where we talked about building trust with your employees by making them confident you will not judge them or discriminate against them - which is good and important. Then she talked about how to build trust by having deep and meaningful discussions with your employees, including talking about potentially tricky things like politics, sexual preferences, religion, etc. At this point the eager Christian in front of me raised his hand and talked about how he frequently had religious discussions with his employees. The HR lady said it was important to listen to them share about their own religion, not just talk about your own, and the eager Christian said he would let them talk about their religious beliefs, then he shared his - it was a discussion. I don’t think it’s really a discussion. That’s when I raised my hand and said I never discussed religion or politics with my direct reports- never ever- and she said that was sad because it’s through those ‘deep and meaningful’ discussions that we really get to know each other. Which seemed weird to me.

Holy Crap!!! I'm pretty sure that's NOT appropriate. I work for, um, lawyers... and I would have to say my employer has the most "law abiding" policies imaginable along with a commitment to providing a "safe" work place.... and what your HR person suggested would probably make my employer's HR people go pale.

[NoNamePerson]

Oct 22, 2021 10:25:12 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Oct 22, 2021 8:54:12 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The degree to which one could suspend their emotions and humanity in work environments has been an important factor for success in modern society. Thy name is "professionalism". I think that is a god we no longer idolize. 

I agree. Work is for working. I don’t need to know the details of your life. I just need to not be racist, sexist, ageist, or any of the other obnoxious ists.

During this training there was a guy in front of my who talked about his devout Christian beliefs, which is fine, but apparently he holds ‘deep conversations’ about his religion beliefs with coworkers, including one of the HR ladies doing the training. It seemed to me he was actively trying to convert his coworkers, and I’m afraid HRs instructions to speak freely and be yourself will encourage him.

This is why I don’t think it’s appropriate to talk about religion at work, other than maybe a mention that your kid is in the Methodist church Christmas pageant.

Does that mean I can be myself and tell the “converter” to go F##k himself! Just being my usual sweet self

[Deleted]

Oct 22, 2021 16:37:01 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Oct 22, 2021 14:57:56 GMT -5 Tiny said:

 
That's weird.   Are you sure that's what HR was trying to impart to you?    Or was it more of a how do you navigate having to interact with someone who doesn't fit your "preconcieved" notions?   

No, we had just gone over the part where we talked about building trust with your employees by making them confident you will not judge them or discriminate against them - which is good and important. Then she talked about how to build trust by having deep and meaningful discussions with your employees, including talking about potentially tricky things like politics, sexual preferences, religion, etc. At this point the eager Christian in front of me raised his hand and talked about how he frequently had religious discussions with his employees. The HR lady said it was important to listen to them share about their own religion, not just talk about your own, and the eager Christian said he would let them talk about their religious beliefs, then he shared his - it was a discussion. I don’t think it’s really a discussion. That’s when I raised my hand and said I never discussed religion or politics with my direct reports- never ever- and she said that was sad because it’s through those ‘deep and meaningful’ discussions that we really get to know each other. Which seemed weird to me.

Ummmm….. I don’t and have never wanted to talk about personal stuff, politics or religion with any of my bosses. I might ooh and ahh over pictures of children or grandchildren and share funny stories about them, but that’s pretty much it. That’s about as personal as I get with my coworkers too.

I once had a supervisor that was a bully and she didn’t like it that I didn’t tell her anymore than I had to. I requested a few hours off work because I had to go to court. She bugged the shit out of me wanting to know why I had to go to court. Was it a traffic ticket? Did I get sued or sue somebody? I wouldn’t answer any of those questions, because she was just being nosey. I actually had to go to court about the child support case with my children’s father and I wouldn’t have thought twice about saying that to anyone else, but by then, it was almost like a game. She tried to get me to tell her stuff that was none of her business, so I made it my business to tell her as little as possible.

One time, she and her buddies (a couple of my coworkers that were bullies too) were talking about sex. They were in my way, and I was working around them. Supervisor asked me something about sex and I just looked at her and didn’t say anything. So she told me “I bet your p@$$# is dried up and dusty”. I told her “don’t worry about MY p@$$&” and kept working. I knew she was totally unprofessional, but I’m STILL shocked that she said that to me lol.

[Deleted]

Oct 22, 2021 16:54:15 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Oct 22, 2021 16:37:01 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

The HR lady said it was important to listen to them share about their own religion, not just talk about your own, and the eager Christian said he would let them talk about their religious beliefs, then he shared his - it was a discussion. I don’t think it’s really a discussion. That’s when I raised my hand and said I never discussed religion or politics with my direct reports- never ever- and she said that was sad because it’s through those ‘deep and meaningful’ discussions that we really get to know each other. Which seemed weird to me.

Holy Crap!!! I'm pretty sure that's NOT appropriate. I work for, um, lawyers... and I would have to say my employer has the most "law abiding" policies imaginable along with a commitment to providing a "safe" work place.... and what your HR person suggested would probably make my employer's HR people go pale.

Yeah, that made me cringe, too. I'm a practicing Christian. The people I worked with knew that I was in church every Sunday and active in many volunteer roles in the church. If anyone ever wanted to learn more and asked me, I'd have been happy to have a discussion, but no one ever did and that was OK. If they can't see the influence of my faith on my values and my behavior, all the bible verses in the world aren't going to convince them.

[NoNamePerson]

Oct 22, 2021 17:17:16 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Oct 22, 2021 16:37:01 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Ummmm….. I don’t and have never wanted to talk about personal stuff, politics or religion with any of my bosses. I might ooh and ahh over pictures of children or grandchildren and share funny stories about them, but that’s pretty much it. That’s about as personal as I get with my coworkers too.

I once had a supervisor that was a bully and she didn’t like it that I didn’t tell her anymore than I had to. I requested a few hours off work because I had to go to court. She bugged the shit out of me wanting to know why I had to go to court. Was it a traffic ticket? Did I get sued or sue somebody? I wouldn’t answer any of those questions, because she was just being nosey. I actually had to go to court about the child support case with my children’s father and I wouldn’t have thought twice about saying that to anyone else, but by then, it was almost like a game. She tried to get me to tell her stuff that was none of her business, so I made it my business to tell her as little as possible.

One time, she and her buddies (a couple of my coworkers that were bullies too) were talking about sex. They were in my way, and I was working around them. Supervisor asked me something about sex and I just looked at her and didn’t say anything. So she told me “I bet your p@$$# is dried up and dusty”. I told her “don’t worry about MY p@$$&” and kept working. I knew she was totally unprofessional, but I’m STILL shocked that she said that to me lol.

I’ve always felt if someone has the nerve to ask me personal questions I have the nerve to make up answers. Would give them a years worth of gossip. But  never socialized with coworkers thefew times I worked for large company. I came to work, did my job and left. I never had personal stuff on desk.  Guess that’s why most of my working was with small firm. I’m not a people person in work place.