The Cult of Trump

[moon/Laura]

Sept 2, 2022 15:18:01 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 2, 2022 14:45:43 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

In the part where you didn't specifically say you thought he broke the law and then called it dem theatrics....

I agree that there is no way they're just going to let this go. He deserves a prison cell, not an oval office.

Wow that is a pretty far fetch reach there. Just because I did not specifically agree or disagree that Trump broke the law and calling the dems response as theatrics means I must support him breaking the law. That is really out there. Kind of like kindergarten math 1+1=5.  If and I mean if when all the dust settles and Trump broke the law then whatever his fate may be he brought down on himself. All I'm saying is the dems don't give a crap if he did break the law this is all theatrics. Most people here have such hate for Trump no matter what he does they gonna hate that is on them. I rather have seen cruz win myself but it is what it is. 

No more 'out there' than your ridiculous justifications regarding guns.

I 100% disagree that Dems don't care about the law. I think we're the ONLY ones who care about it in this situation. Yes, we hate Trump for many, many reasons. But, had this been Obama or Clinton or anyone else, I'd feel the same in regards to what needs to happen. Unfortunately, most of the 'pubs want to justify and whitewash the whole thing as far as I can tell. No way their "Golden Orange Boy" could have done anything illegal!

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 2, 2022 15:48:19 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Sept 2, 2022 15:18:01 GMT -5 scgal said:

Wow that is a pretty far fetch reach there. Just because I did not specifically agree or disagree that Trump broke the law and calling the dems response as theatrics means I must support him breaking the law. That is really out there. Kind of like kindergarten math 1+1=5.  If and I mean if when all the dust settles and Trump broke the law then whatever his fate may be he brought down on himself. All I'm saying is the dems don't give a crap if he did break the law this is all theatrics. Most people here have such hate for Trump no matter what he does they gonna hate that is on them. I rather have seen cruz win myself but it is what it is. 

No more 'out there' than your ridiculous justifications regarding guns.

I 100% disagree that Dems don't care about the law. I think we're the ONLY ones who care about it in this situation. Yes, we hate Trump for many, many reasons. But, had this been Obama or Clinton or anyone else, I'd feel the same in regards to what needs to happen. Unfortunately, most of the 'pubs want to justify and whitewash the whole thing as far as I can tell. No way their "Golden Orange Boy" could have done anything illegal!

She has read the conservative playbook. Defund the police was a useful thing to run against. All of a sudden we want to defund the fbi. What Hilary did was criminal, so much so that trump signed a bill making it a felony. All of a sudden it is no longer a big deal. Trump says jump, they jump. They no longer have any standards or conviction. It is all about being against whatever liberals want. And, they seem to have no problem with threatening violence. Imagine if an African-American representative said the things trump and his minions have in regards to violence. Where is the condemnation from the “party of law and order”.

[billisonboard]

Sept 2, 2022 14:51:48 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

I find two things scary with the idea that there are things that a president can't declassify. The first is that there is some person or persons who can make a fact a secret to be withheld from the American people that even our elected leader can not override. 

It isn't necessarily a person, but a trained group of experts who make policy decisions based on facts that a president (or American people) wouldn't understand. He doesn't have to follow it, but can't disclose how we got the info. Remember trump did give up our informants once to Russia. Also remember trump didn't even read his daily security briefings because he knew more then them and trusted his gut. IMO he wouldn't have gotten a security clearance if he wasn't president (which is automatic without a background check). Kushner couldn't get one. 

I believe the intelligence community distrusted trump and were correct. I think he was making plans to make deals with Russia, North Korea and China. Either financial or political. 

A "trained group of experts" are persons. I understand that it is good to have faith in such groups. I just don't have absolute faith in them. I think that someone answerable to the citizenry should have the final say.

[swamp]

Sept 2, 2022 14:39:07 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 2, 2022 14:21:22 GMT -5 bean29 said:

First of all, I think the Candidates for President should be required to pass the background check for the highest Security Level as a pre-condition to running for office.

I find it horrifying that some people think that this is a non issue and as long as Trump agrees not to run for office again, we can call everything good.

If he was careless with our national secrets and our enemies have al that information, we should just say oh well?  I am Shocked that Republicans are not as horrified as Democrats.  Even if you pan to overthrow the government and plan to set up your own, I would think you would still want to use that information to secure your new country. 

I looked at the pictures of all the empty folders and I wondered what happened to the information that was in those folders before?  It was Shredded, It was stolen,it was Sold to the highest bidder, or possibly those folders are part of the information that was previously turned over to the National Archives?  I don't know how anyone can consider this a non-issue.  

Exactly why I think this is all about pushing him into a corner. A classified piece of paper is nothing compared to the knowledge that a president was part of and witness to for the 4 years they are in office. There is alot more damage that can be done than from a piece of paper. 

So a list of Russian spies given to the Russian government is harmless?  

[Tennesseer]

Sept 2, 2022 15:18:01 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 2, 2022 14:45:43 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

In the part where you didn't specifically say you thought he broke the law and then called it dem theatrics....

I agree that there is no way they're just going to let this go. He deserves a prison cell, not an oval office.

Wow that is a pretty far fetch reach there. Just because I did not specifically agree or disagree that Trump broke the law and calling the dems response as theatrics means I must support him breaking the law. That is really out there. Kind of like kindergarten math 1+1=5.  If and I mean if when all the dust settles and Trump broke the law then whatever his fate may be he brought down on himself. All I'm saying is the dems don't give a crap if he did break the law this is all theatrics. Most people here have such hate for Trump no matter what he does they gonna hate that is on them. I rather have seen cruz win myself but it is what it is. 

Would it still be theatrics by the "dems" if it turns out trump did pass along a document marked TOP SECRET//SCI to a third party for financial or other type of personal gains?

[scgal]

Sept 2, 2022 17:00:07 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 2, 2022 15:18:01 GMT -5 scgal said:

Wow that is a pretty far fetch reach there. Just because I did not specifically agree or disagree that Trump broke the law and calling the dems response as theatrics means I must support him breaking the law. That is really out there. Kind of like kindergarten math 1+1=5.  If and I mean if when all the dust settles and Trump broke the law then whatever his fate may be he brought down on himself. All I'm saying is the dems don't give a crap if he did break the law this is all theatrics. Most people here have such hate for Trump no matter what he does they gonna hate that is on them. I rather have seen cruz win myself but it is what it is. 

Would it still be theatrics by the "dems" if it turns out trump did pass along a document marked TOP SECRET//SCI to a third party for financial or other type of personal gains?

and if he didn't

[scgal]

Sept 2, 2022 16:56:06 GMT -5 swamp said:

Sept 2, 2022 14:39:07 GMT -5 scgal said:

Exactly why I think this is all about pushing him into a corner. A classified piece of paper is nothing compared to the knowledge that a president was part of and witness to for the 4 years they are in office. There is alot more damage that can be done than from a piece of paper. 

So a list of Russian spies given to the Russian government is harmless?  

when did this happen?

[Tennesseer]

Sept 2, 2022 15:18:01 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 2, 2022 14:45:43 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

In the part where you didn't specifically say you thought he broke the law and then called it dem theatrics....

I agree that there is no way they're just going to let this go. He deserves a prison cell, not an oval office.

Wow that is a pretty far fetch reach there. Just because I did not specifically agree or disagree that Trump broke the law and calling the dems response as theatrics means I must support him breaking the law. That is really out there. Kind of like kindergarten math 1+1=5.  If and I mean if when all the dust settles and Trump broke the law then whatever his fate may be he brought down on himself. All I'm saying is the dems don't give a crap if he did break the law this is all theatrics. Most people here have such hate for Trump no matter what he does they gonna hate that is on them. I rather have seen cruz win myself but it is what it is. 

[Tennesseer]

Sept 2, 2022 17:01:55 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 2, 2022 17:00:07 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Would it still be theatrics by the "dems" if it turns out trump did pass along a document marked TOP SECRET//SCI to a third party for financial or other type of personal gains?

and if he didn't

And if he didn't what?

Did you forget the documents never, ever belonged to trump. They belonged to the U.S. government. trump took the documents to mar-a-lago and was hiding them as a private citizen.

[dondub]

Sept 2, 2022 15:18:01 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 2, 2022 14:45:43 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

In the part where you didn't specifically say you thought he broke the law and then called it dem theatrics....

I agree that there is no way they're just going to let this go. He deserves a prison cell, not an oval office.

Wow that is a pretty far fetch reach there. Just because I did not specifically agree or disagree that Trump broke the law and calling the dems response as theatrics means I must support him breaking the law. That is really out there. Kind of like kindergarten math 1+1=5.  If and I mean if when all the dust settles and Trump broke the law then whatever his fate may be he brought down on himself. All I'm saying is the dems don't give a crap if he did break the law this is all theatrics. Most people here have such hate for Trump no matter what he does they gonna hate that is on them. I rather have seen cruz win myself but it is what it is. 

There you go again.

[Opti]

Sept 2, 2022 14:39:07 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 2, 2022 14:21:22 GMT -5 bean29 said:

First of all, I think the Candidates for President should be required to pass the background check for the highest Security Level as a pre-condition to running for office.

I find it horrifying that some people think that this is a non issue and as long as Trump agrees not to run for office again, we can call everything good.

If he was careless with our national secrets and our enemies have al that information, we should just say oh well?  I am Shocked that Republicans are not as horrified as Democrats.  Even if you pan to overthrow the government and plan to set up your own, I would think you would still want to use that information to secure your new country. 

I looked at the pictures of all the empty folders and I wondered what happened to the information that was in those folders before?  It was Shredded, It was stolen,it was Sold to the highest bidder, or possibly those folders are part of the information that was previously turned over to the National Archives?  I don't know how anyone can consider this a non-issue.  

Exactly why I think this is all about pushing him into a corner. A classified piece of paper is nothing compared to the knowledge that a president was part of and witness to for the 4 years they are in office. There is alot more damage that can be done than from a piece of paper. 

I totally disagree. This is Trump. What in the heck could he remember on his own that is more of a risk to national security than many documents with the highest to significantly high secret clearances? This is all more classified than what the Right roasted Hillary over. And unlike Hillary, Trump already proved he was willing to risk an asset's life in his first week in office.

The good thing about being a liberal is being fair and even handed. Anyone should face serious repercussions having this info unless it can be proven all of it is stale and not useful. If what was on a piece of paper was never damaging, Trump would have released his tax returns already. 

I do not get why you would choose to believe what info might be retained in Trump's head is more dangerous to the US than the top secret documents he never should have had except perhaps to view when in office. 

[Opti]

Sept 2, 2022 12:07:12 GMT -5 scgal said:

I think this more or less will go nowhere. It is all being pushed by the dems to keep so much negativity on him in case he runs. I also think if he says he won't run they will push all this aside and focus on the election. Just my .02

Got the RW talking points down. Do they ever explain why Hillary Clinton having a few docs marked confidential, the lowest secret marking, was such a big deal compared to Donald Trump having docs that shouldn't even leave secure viewing areas? Odds are high he has some docs pertaining to US nuclear secrets.

The RW only cared because they wanted her never to run for office?!

[swamp]

Sept 2, 2022 17:02:52 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 2, 2022 16:56:06 GMT -5 swamp said:

So a list of Russian spies given to the Russian government is harmless?  

when did this happen?

I don’t know if it did.  It was in response to your post that paper can’t be dangerous. 

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Let's get this Hillary event straight and take it out of all discussions about trump. She received some classified emails. She didn't send any. Do you control your inbox? 

[ken a.k.a OMK]

US officials extracted a top-secret source from Russia after President Donald Trump revealed classified intelligence to Russian officials during an Oval Office meeting in 2017, CNN reported Monday.

www.businessinsider.com/us-extracted-russia-spy-trump-classified-info-oval-office-2019-9

[billisonboard]

Sept 2, 2022 14:51:48 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

I find two things scary with the idea that there are things that a president can't declassify. The first is that there is some person or persons who can make a fact a secret to be withheld from the American people that even our elected leader can not override. 

It isn't necessarily a person, but a trained group of experts who make policy decisions based on facts that a president (or American people) wouldn't understand. He doesn't have to follow it, but can't disclose how we got the info. Remember trump did give up our informants once to Russia. Also remember trump didn't even read his daily security briefings because he knew more then them and trusted his gut. IMO he wouldn't have gotten a security clearance if he wasn't president (which is automatic without a background check). Kushner couldn't get one. 

I believe the intelligence community distrusted trump and were correct. I think he was making plans to make deals with Russia, North Korea and China. Either financial or political. 

Historical example of the type of work our government experts have done under cover of classified documents:

Pentagon Papers

Thirty-six analysts—half of them active-duty military officers, the rest academics and civilian federal employees—worked on the study.
...
The study consisted of 3,000 pages of historical analysis and 4,000 pages of original government documents in 47 volumes, and was classified as "Top Secret – Sensitive". ("Sensitive" is not an official security designation; it meant that access to the study should be controlled.)

Trump is a worst case nightmare but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be skeptical of government keeping secrets from us.

[billisonboard]

Sept 2, 2022 12:01:50 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

the right wing hate machine is not saying much about it.
they are saying that Biden is a lying two faced hypocrite,
and that we should reopen the Hunter Biden case.

about Trump?  nothing, really.
but at least they are not actively hollering about his civil rights being violated, or threatening civil war.

i think the lurid details on this are awesome.  well done, DOJ.
seeing all of those classified docs spread out like bags of cocaine 
is pretty damning.  and the idea that he had 18 months to give them
up without any repercussions, and had gone through them at least once
in the last 9 months (and still kept 2/3 or more of the top secret stuff)
is more than damning.  it is criminal.

even bills is not defending it.  

It is an interesting process to see it become worse and worse. I agree the DOJ is doing a great job slowly tightening the noose.

[NastyWoman]

Sept 2, 2022 12:02:10 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

that last comment was sarcastic, if anyone was wondering.

No worries. I see bills comments most of the time as playing "devil's advocate" Keeping us all in check and preventing, or at least trying tp prevent, us from going completely of the tracks

[dondub]

Sept 2, 2022 20:05:34 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Sept 2, 2022 12:02:10 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

that last comment was sarcastic, if anyone was wondering.

No worries. I see bills comments most of the time as playing "devil's advocate" Keeping us all in check and preventing, or at least trying tp prevent, us from going completely of the tracks

He lives in Eastern Washington so is already ‘off the tracks”!😎

[billisonboard]

[tallguy]

Sept 2, 2022 20:36:00 GMT -5 dondub said:

Sept 2, 2022 20:05:34 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

No worries. I see bills comments most of the time as playing "devil's advocate" Keeping us all in check and preventing, or at least trying tp prevent, us from going completely of the tracks

He lives in Eastern Washington so is already ‘off the tracks”!😎

Wrong side of the tracks, certainly.  

[djAdvocate]

Sept 2, 2022 12:43:32 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 2, 2022 12:38:45 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

it depends on who was the succeeding president.  if it were Mike Pence, then no.  nothing would happen.  because the DOJ would still be under Barr or some Barr protegee.  and the GOP seems to think that presidents are untouchable.

if it were under Biden or Harris?  yes, i think it would.

I think no matter who wins the next election it all goes away if it is still going on. He may and I just says there is a slim chance of and indictment but not prosecuted. They really don't give a shit about this they just don't want him to run. Personally I don't want him to run either. 

i think a fair amount of Democrats actually want him to run, because they see him as the most beatable candidate.

i think there is a near 100% chance he will be indicted.  i doubt it will happen before the midterms, however.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 2, 2022 14:29:35 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 2, 2022 14:21:22 GMT -5 bean29 said:

First of all, I think the Candidates for President should be required to pass the background check for the highest Security Level as a pre-condition to running for office.

I find it horrifying that some people think that this is a non issue and as long as Trump agrees not to run for office again, we can call everything good.

If he was careless with our national secrets and our enemies have al that information, we should just say oh well?  I am Shocked that Republicans are not as horrified as Democrats.  Even if you pan to overthrow the government and plan to set up your own, I would think you would still want to use that information to secure your new country. 

I looked at the pictures of all the empty folders and I wondered what happened to the information that was in those folders before?  It was Shredded, It was stolen,it was Sold to the highest bidder, or possibly those folders are part of the information that was previously turned over to the National Archives?  I don't know how anyone can consider this a non-issue.  

I am not comfortable giving the federal bureaucracy veto power over who I can or can't vote for to become president.

then petition the government to overturn term limits.

if he is found guilty of espionage, he can be barred from office.  it is in the law.  i would suggest that you deal with that fact as you have learned to deal with term limits.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 2, 2022 16:31:11 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 2, 2022 14:51:48 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

It isn't necessarily a person, but a trained group of experts who make policy decisions based on facts that a president (or American people) wouldn't understand. He doesn't have to follow it, but can't disclose how we got the info. Remember trump did give up our informants once to Russia. Also remember trump didn't even read his daily security briefings because he knew more then them and trusted his gut. IMO he wouldn't have gotten a security clearance if he wasn't president (which is automatic without a background check). Kushner couldn't get one. 

I believe the intelligence community distrusted trump and were correct. I think he was making plans to make deals with Russia, North Korea and China. Either financial or political. 

A "trained group of experts" are persons. I understand that it is good to have faith in such groups. I just don't have absolute faith in them. I think that someone answerable to the citizenry should have the final say.

final say over WHAT?
the SCIF procedures don't PRECLUDE our civilian president from viewing docs, bills.
they preclude ALL PARTIES, INCLUDING THE PRESIDENT from retaining them.
the country is more important than the president.
that is the principle here.
you don't agree with that principle?

[tbop77]

Sept 2, 2022 12:43:32 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 2, 2022 12:38:45 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

it depends on who was the succeeding president.  if it were Mike Pence, then no.  nothing would happen.  because the DOJ would still be under Barr or some Barr protegee.  and the GOP seems to think that presidents are untouchable.

if it were under Biden or Harris?  yes, i think it would.

I think no matter who wins the next election it all goes away if it is still going on. He may and I just says there is a slim chance of and indictment but not prosecuted. They really don't give a shit about this they just don't want him to run. Personally I don't want him to run either. 

I think you have it all backwards.  It's conservatives that don't give a shit about....well, anything anymore.  And they are getting what they deserve, they had their chance after the last stunt he pulled...inciting a riot to overturn an election.  They have proven to me they are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites who could care less about this country.  

I didn't trust Trump when he got caught lying about a meeting with Russian officials during the 2016 campaign to get dirt on Hillary.  First, he LIED and said he didn't know anything about it, then...he LIED again and said it was about adoption.  I have to wonder how many people he "hired" when he was in office that was like Rex Tilerson, who had to often tell him, "you can't do that, it's illegal"  Well, and you know, once someone told him NO, they were fired.  

You think "they just don't want him to run"   I hope he does run.  I hope conservatives have to defend more and more of his actions.  I hope they get their gut full of that idiot.   

[scgal]

Sept 2, 2022 17:06:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 2, 2022 17:01:55 GMT -5 scgal said:

and if he didn't

And if he didn't what?

Did you forget the documents never, ever belonged to trump. They belonged to the U.S. government. trump took the documents to mar-a-lago and was hiding them as a private citizen.

The question was if he pass them along. Not if he had the documents. Yes he is not supposed to have them. I is still unclear if any are still classified. I'm not condoning anything if he is guilty i'm saying the facts are not in, news headlines are not facts. I still would contend to say he has acess to a multitude of classified material in 4 years if he wanted to turn traitor

[scgal]

Sept 3, 2022 6:44:54 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Sept 2, 2022 12:43:32 GMT -5 scgal said:

I think no matter who wins the next election it all goes away if it is still going on. He may and I just says there is a slim chance of and indictment but not prosecuted. They really don't give a shit about this they just don't want him to run. Personally I don't want him to run either. 

I think you have it all backwards.  It's conservatives that don't give a shit about....well, anything anymore.  And they are getting what they deserve, they had their chance after the last stunt he pulled...inciting a riot to overturn an election.  They have proven to me they are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites who could care less about this country.  

I didn't trust Trump when he got caught lying about a meeting with Russian officials during the 2016 campaign to get dirt on Hillary.  First, he LIED and said he didn't know anything about it, then...he LIED again and said it was about adoption.  I have to wonder how many people he "hired" when he was in office that was like Rex Tilerson, who had to often tell him, "you can't do that, it's illegal"  Well, and you know, once someone told him NO, they were fired.  

You think "they just don't want him to run"   I hope he does run.  I hope conservatives have to defend more and more of his actions.  I hope they get their gut full of that idiot.   

I don't see anything where he incited the riots. He never told them to break into the capitol. The impeachment should never have happened just another scared democrat stunt. I'm not going to comment about anything with Hillary.

[scgal]

Sept 2, 2022 17:11:03 GMT -5 dondub said:

Sept 2, 2022 15:18:01 GMT -5 scgal said:

Wow that is a pretty far fetch reach there. Just because I did not specifically agree or disagree that Trump broke the law and calling the dems response as theatrics means I must support him breaking the law. That is really out there. Kind of like kindergarten math 1+1=5.  If and I mean if when all the dust settles and Trump broke the law then whatever his fate may be he brought down on himself. All I'm saying is the dems don't give a crap if he did break the law this is all theatrics. Most people here have such hate for Trump no matter what he does they gonna hate that is on them. I rather have seen cruz win myself but it is what it is. 

There you go again.

If your going to accuse me of something please elaborate

[scgal]

Sept 3, 2022 5:19:36 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 2, 2022 12:43:32 GMT -5 scgal said:

I think no matter who wins the next election it all goes away if it is still going on. He may and I just says there is a slim chance of and indictment but not prosecuted. They really don't give a shit about this they just don't want him to run. Personally I don't want him to run either. 

i think a fair amount of Democrats actually want him to run, because they see him as the most beatable candidate.

i think there is a near 100% chance he will be indicted.  i doubt it will happen before the midterms, however.

That is why I don't want him to run too beatable besides too damn old. I wouldn't say 100% only if he runs a 100% other than that its 50/50. Your right it won't be before midterms more likely 3rd quater of next year. 

[djAdvocate]

Sept 3, 2022 7:08:12 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 3, 2022 5:19:36 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i think a fair amount of Democrats actually want him to run, because they see him as the most beatable candidate.

i think there is a near 100% chance he will be indicted.  i doubt it will happen before the midterms, however.

That is why I don't want him to run too beatable besides too damn old. I wouldn't say 100% only if he runs a 100% other than that its 50/50. Your right it won't be before midterms more likely 3rd quater of next year. 

there is a very good chance that Democrats will lose the house.  that will leave them little to do other than encourage Garland to bring charges.

we agree about the timing.