susana1954
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Post by susana1954 on Sept 22, 2021 13:40:26 GMT -5
I just read an article on MSN that said some restaurants are combating the shortage of service workers (wait staff) by raising their salaries wages to $15-$18 an hour instead of the minimum for tipped workers. To pay for this, these restaurants are adding a 20% service charge. All tips, then, are pooled and split between the workers in addition to their salary wages.
If you dined in a restaurant with a 20% service charge, would you routinely tip? I know there are times when service is so stellar that you want to reward it, but I don't mean that. I mean for everyday service, not bad or outstanding but just expected service.
I'm sure the tip line isn't going away. It is already popping up places where it doesn't really belong like the curb market where I buy tomatoes.
Will you feel cheap if you ignore or zero it out? Will you look cheap?
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Sept 22, 2021 13:49:55 GMT -5
I don't know how I'll handle it. When the time comes, I'll probably just go along with whatever custom has become standard. It's going to be a long time before I eat out again. That's partly Covid-fear, part anger, and part frustration. The last time that I went to a restaurant, both the service and the food were atrocious. I may be able to accept a price hike, but I'm not going to accept bad food.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 22, 2021 13:56:40 GMT -5
In other countries where they pay an actual wage you don't tip. You CAN tip but it is not expected or customary because it's understood the employer actually pays the employees rather than using the public to offset costs.
So no I wouldn't feel cheap. It's one thing when I am taking money out of a server's pocket (if someone didn't tip I still had to give the bartender 2% and the bus boy 1% and no my salary was not raised to compensate for that, the computer said *I* made #X in tips so adjusted base salary accordingly so some nights if you sat to calculate it I took home less than minimum wage).
It's another if they are making $18/hr. For here you can afford to live on $18/hr. I made $17/hr at UNMC. Tips are icing on the cake at that point. I'd consider waiting tables again for $18/hr and a cut of the 20% surcharge.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2021 15:48:29 GMT -5
I hate junk charges and that's what this is- similar to a hotel's mandatory "resort charge". If you're going to increase wages, build it into the menu prices since it applies to everyone. I suppose in the end I'd tip according to my idea of what the meal should cost. BF and I are used to $38 or $40 for dinner at our favorite Mexican place. If they were to increase wages I might tip enough to bring the total tab to the same amount. After all, they've been telling us for years that the tips make the difference between the crap wages they get and a decent living wage. If you're going to pay them a decent wage, tips aren't needed, right?
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Sept 22, 2021 15:58:04 GMT -5
Um, no, you don't tip on top of a 20% service charge, unless you're inclined to tip > 20%.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Sept 22, 2021 16:33:42 GMT -5
First, it's hourly wage - not salary. I'm guessing restaurants do NOT pay their employees for a fixed number of hours worked per year. Salaried people don't get paid for more than the 40 (or 35 or 38.5 hours) they are required to work - even if they work 50 or 60 hours a week. To the topic... I'm torn. My area has some stupidly high "restaurant food" taxes. I'm guessing that adding a 20% charge to the bill would save me the customer some pennies than if the restaurant increased the cost of the food: $10.00 + 1.50 taxes + $2 fee = $13.50 $12.00 + 1.80 taxes = $13.80 I'm not sure I would add much of a "tip" -- if a "tip" was already being added to the bill - at a sit down restaurant - especially a casual restaurant where the waitperson did their basic job. I usually tip 15 to 20%. I don't eat out often. I would really have had to gotten amazing service (it was super busy - but the wait person was always there when needed and still brought stuff quick for example) to add more to a 20% tip that was already included in the final cost. And then it might just be a few bucks extra. I know the pizza delivery places add a "delivery charge" to the bill... but it's usually a flat amount. I always give a big tip to the delivery person - mostly cause I'm ordering either a LOT of food OR the weather is kind of lousy (rainy) or both. And I am very happy that someone else went out in the weather and/or carried all the packages to my door. I imagine I would still tip if the weather is nice and it's a smaller order just cause it would be out of the ordinary for me to order in food.
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daisylu
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Post by daisylu on Sept 22, 2021 16:46:32 GMT -5
If the staff is making a living wage, or at least in the vicinity of, why would tipping be necessary? If my server is making $15-$18 an hour and I am paying a 20% service charge, I'm probably not tipping. Would not make me feel cheap, and I really don't care what other people think of me (that's their issue, not mine).
If they expect people to still tip, raise menu prices to compensate for the wages, not add a service charge.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2021 16:56:14 GMT -5
I’ve seen requests for tips pop up in unexpected places and it annoys me. The window at the drive through of a BBQ restaurant now has a sign saying something about tips for good service. It’s a freaking drive through. And the service is the same as when I went there before COVID.
I made an online order for Lenny’s sub shop last and wasn’t paying attention, and a 15% tip was automatically added to my order. FOR WHAT? Their seating area is closed. I go in, tell them my name, they give me my order, I say thanks and walk out the door. As far as I know, even when their seating area was open, they didn’t have servers. You got all your stuff yourself.
I feel for restaurant employees and I feel for small business owners, but these expectations for tips are getting out of hand. No, I do not want to tip somebody that just hands me food I ordered online and drove to their establishment to pick up. And no I do not feel bad about it, or like I’m being cheap. If anyone is being cheap, it’s their employers.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Sept 22, 2021 17:11:49 GMT -5
When are we going to get with the rest of the world on paying restaurant workers an actual living wage instead of leaving it up to the customers to make sure they are paid? Just raise the prices so we don’t have to do all this tipping and service charge garbage!
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Sept 22, 2021 17:33:19 GMT -5
They actually made a lot more with their tips prepandemic. I remember making maybe around $30k about 15 years ago at my corporate job. My DH's friends dumb as a box of rocks girlfriend made $45k that same year waiting tables at Applebee's.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Sept 22, 2021 17:35:09 GMT -5
If they charge me 20% for a service charge, I will not be tipping.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Sept 22, 2021 18:43:25 GMT -5
I think the most annoying place I've seen the tip thing pop up is the baseball stadium. Sure if the beer vendor brings it to my seat he gets a $1 or $2. He provided me a service. If I have to walk to the counter and you just hand me my food or drink I'm not tipping you. I don't tip at McDonald's or similar places. These were never tipped positions and that wasn't there before they went cashless and everyone had to pay via card.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Sept 22, 2021 22:03:13 GMT -5
They actually made a lot more with their tips prepandemic. I remember making maybe around $30k about 15 years ago at my corporate job. My DH's friends dumb as a box of rocks girlfriend made $45k that same year waiting tables at Applebee's. This….. My brother had a higher income than I did due to his tips. He was working as a bartender at The Cheesecake Factory and clearing $75-80k in tips each year. I know he was only declaring what he had to declare to the IRS, so a chunk of that was tax free. So logically, why would some want to work for $18/hour and no tips when their tipped income was double that?
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Sept 22, 2021 22:26:16 GMT -5
Worked for CPA and one of our clients as a very successful restaurant/bar. Every time I did their payroll I considered quitting and applying for bartender/waitress job. But realized I was bookkeeper for a reason ~ I couldn’t put up with the assholes out there.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Sept 23, 2021 7:03:36 GMT -5
I think the most annoying place I've seen the tip thing pop up is the baseball stadium. Sure if the beer vendor brings it to my seat he gets a $1 or $2. He provided me a service. If I have to walk to the counter and you just hand me my food or drink I'm not tipping you. I don't tip at McDonald's or similar places. These were never tipped positions and that wasn't there before they went cashless and everyone had to pay via card. When I was 18, I worked concessions at a hockey arena for awhile. Since I was old enough, I got to sell the beer. If I was stationed at a food concession, I never got tips. If I was partnered up at a bartender cart, I did (we split them). It wasn't a lot of money, but it was nice. I only got paid the same minimum wage as the kids selling hotdogs, but I had more liability and had to put up with drunks.
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Sept 23, 2021 8:03:04 GMT -5
I think the most annoying place I've seen the tip thing pop up is the baseball stadium. Sure if the beer vendor brings it to my seat he gets a $1 or $2. He provided me a service. If I have to walk to the counter and you just hand me my food or drink I'm not tipping you. I don't tip at McDonald's or similar places. These were never tipped positions and that wasn't there before they went cashless and everyone had to pay via card. Many of the stadiums we have gone to lately do not have beer vendors in the crowds. My DH will tip the beer server at the counter pretty good on the first round. He usually gets called to the front of the line for subsequent trips to the beer stand. It's fun to watch people wonder why he gets to go to the front of the line!
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Sept 23, 2021 8:03:18 GMT -5
If they charge me 20% for a service charge, I will not be tipping.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Sept 23, 2021 8:42:35 GMT -5
UberEats and DoorDash have service fees built in and that money does not go to the restaurant or the driver. I encourage people to just contact the restaurant directly and arrange for your order to be delivered. That way you know your money is going to the people it should.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Sept 23, 2021 9:31:28 GMT -5
20% would be the expected tip on good service. But as written in the OP, - not all of that 20% is going to the waitperson, they are getting 18/hr, and the restaurant pocketing the 20%? So it seems that the establishment is taking a largeish chunk of it - which many have been wanting to do for a while.
so - a tough question on whether to tip over that financially if your means are more limited. On a less than financial basis, seems that the wait person is getting a bit of a shaft.
Unless the 20% goes 100% to the server.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2021 9:56:15 GMT -5
I listened to one podcast that made an interesting point about our tipping culture in the US: it gives customers a lot of power over people whose income is largely tip-based. If the customer is THAT kind of tyrannical person, they can withhold a tip for reasons beyond the worker's control, because they don't cater to the customer's every whim, for whatever reason they want. A tour guide I had in Bolivia said one particularly difficult customer he had flashed $300 US at him at the end of the trip and said, "THIS would have been your tip if we'd had better service". The customer could have been lying about what he would have tipped, of course, but the large amount of discretion in what people can tip really does give them a lot of control.
My pet peeve is the big cruise lines- they keep the sticker price low but then automatically add a gratuity that you can have removed only if you protest that you've received subpar service. So, it's 99% mandatory. Build it into the rate already! The cruise line I use suggests some guidelines and they add what YOU specify at the end of the trip. That's the way it's supposed to work.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Sept 23, 2021 12:00:31 GMT -5
I was just explaining to my friends last weekend that a big reason I hate tipping culture is that it puts the tipper at a higher level of status than the tippee. It's like they are subservient to the customer and must grovel for the money. Obviously, in practice it doesn't play out that way (most people are guilted into tipping even with poor service), but there are still the underpinnings there.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Sept 23, 2021 15:10:37 GMT -5
They actually made a lot more with their tips prepandemic. I remember making maybe around $30k about 15 years ago at my corporate job. My DH's friends dumb as a box of rocks girlfriend made $45k that same year waiting tables at Applebee's. This….. My brother had a higher income than I did due to his tips. He was working as a bartender at The Cheesecake Factory and clearing $75-80k in tips each year. I know he was only declaring what he had to declare to the IRS, so a chunk of that was tax free. So logically, why would some want to work for $18/hour and no tips when their tipped income was double that?
Actually in this area they make by law a minimum of $15/hour yet still feel like the customer has "stiffed" them or is a cheapskate if they don't leave the so-called customary 20% in tips. Higher wages don't seem to negate the need for the ever rising expected tips
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justme
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Post by justme on Sept 23, 2021 15:13:53 GMT -5
I listened to one podcast that made an interesting point about our tipping culture in the US: it gives customers a lot of power over people whose income is largely tip-based. If the customer is THAT kind of tyrannical person, they can withhold a tip for reasons beyond the worker's control, because they don't cater to the customer's every whim, for whatever reason they want. A tour guide I had in Bolivia said one particularly difficult customer he had flashed $300 US at him at the end of the trip and said, "THIS would have been your tip if we'd had better service". The customer could have been lying about what he would have tipped, of course, but the large amount of discretion in what people can tip really does give them a lot of control. My pet peeve is the big cruise lines- they keep the sticker price low but then automatically add a gratuity that you can have removed only if you protest that you've received subpar service. So, it's 99% mandatory. Build it into the rate already! The cruise line I use suggests some guidelines and they add what YOU specify at the end of the trip. That's the way it's supposed to work. Much like with restaurants - cruises don't want to be the only one to include it. They'll look more expensive and get less bookings. Though some of the luxury lines including them. There are two mainstream ones that do - virgin and celebrity. It's a recent change on celebrity but it's part of virgins shtick. At least cruise lines is a set dollar amount. Really easy to factor in.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Sept 23, 2021 16:43:43 GMT -5
We haven't eaten in a restaurant since March 7, 2020 with no plans to change that in the foreseeable future. (I'm immunocompromised).
We do DoorDash (and GrubHub when DoorDash is down) and we're Dash Pass members, so we pay a monthly fee in lieu of some of the service charges. There is a local $1.00 fee because our gas prices are ridiculously high. We try to tip well on DoorDash as Dashers tend to select which delivery to take based on tip offered, and we've found that this gets us our food quicker (and more likely, warmer.) Plus, we appreciate the service. We also have snacks and drinks at our front door for ALL delivery drivers.
In California, restaurant wait staff makes at least the local minimum wage. Right now, I know that many places are offering more than that ($16 or $17 an hour) ~ including fast food restaurants like Taco Bell, Sonic and Chik-Fil-A.
I am slowly coming to the position that service charges and fees are the new norm ~ at least in California.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Sept 23, 2021 17:15:11 GMT -5
I'm where you are, Molly, on not having eaten in a restaurant and have no idea when I will again.
I have no access to Door Dash or any delivery service. Hence, I've been doing grocery pick up.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Sept 23, 2021 21:24:02 GMT -5
We haven't eaten in a restaurant since March 7, 2020 with no plans to change that in the foreseeable future. (I'm immunocompromised). We do DoorDash (and GrubHub when DoorDash is down) and we're Dash Pass members, so we pay a monthly fee in lieu of some of the service charges. There is a local $1.00 fee because our gas prices are ridiculously high. We try to tip well on DoorDash as Dashers tend to select which delivery to take based on tip offered, and we've found that this gets us our food quicker (and more likely, warmer.) Plus, we appreciate the service. We also have snacks and drinks at our front door for ALL delivery drivers. In California, restaurant wait staff makes at least the local minimum wage. Right now, I know that many places are offering more than that ($16 or $17 an hour) ~ including fast food restaurants like Taco Bell, Sonic and Chik-Fil-A. I am slowly coming to the position that service charges and fees are the new norm ~ at least in California. Rotten Ronnie’s is hiring at $16-17/hour the last time I drove through. They had an ad up on the take out window looking for employees.
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jeffreymo
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Post by jeffreymo on Sept 24, 2021 7:03:52 GMT -5
It’s similar to the UberEats/GrubHub/DoorDash model. A year ago I said I would never pay an extra 30% (delivery fee + reasonable tip to entice someone to pick it up) to have a restaurant meal brought to my door. Then I got a coupon. Then my credit card offered a 3 month free subscription to DoorDash. Now I don’t use these services all of the time, but I’m into double digits on the number of orders I’ve placed.
I think the restaurants are just adapting to stay afloat. We’re at the 18 month mark of non-normal. If we go much longer we will all be conditioned to this new normal of how you receive and pay for a restaurant meal.
So I would probably tip on top of service charge. It would only be 5-10%.
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jeffreymo
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Post by jeffreymo on Sept 24, 2021 7:08:36 GMT -5
I listened to one podcast that made an interesting point about our tipping culture in the US: it gives customers a lot of power over people whose income is largely tip-based. If the customer is THAT kind of tyrannical person, they can withhold a tip for reasons beyond the worker's control, because they don't cater to the customer's every whim, for whatever reason they want. A tour guide I had in Bolivia said one particularly difficult customer he had flashed $300 US at him at the end of the trip and said, "THIS would have been your tip if we'd had better service". The customer could have been lying about what he would have tipped, of course, but the large amount of discretion in what people can tip really does give them a lot of control. My pet peeve is the big cruise lines- they keep the sticker price low but then automatically add a gratuity that you can have removed only if you protest that you've received subpar service. So, it's 99% mandatory. Build it into the rate already! The cruise line I use suggests some guidelines and they add what YOU specify at the end of the trip. That's the way it's supposed to work. Ha! The cruise thing got me on my one and only excursion. 40th birthday party with a large group and we all purchased the alcohol packages. And I ended up tipping on every drink the first day until I figured out gratuity was included. I’ll admit it did help when we were hanging out at a crowded bar.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2021 7:41:08 GMT -5
So I would probably tip on top of service charge. It would only be 5-10%. That's the model in Europe- if it's really good service you add a small amount, not 15-20%. Years ago I went to a conference at the Hotel Hershey in PA that had a large number of attendees from outside the US. The hotel actually put up a sign in the lobby reminding international guests that employees were paid crap wages (not those words, of course) and depended heavily on generous tips to supplement their wages. Embarrassing.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 24, 2021 10:00:00 GMT -5
I just read an article on MSN that said some restaurants are combating the shortage of service workers (wait staff) by raising their salaries wages to $15-$18 an hour instead of the minimum for tipped workers. To pay for this, these restaurants are adding a 20% service charge. All tips, then, are pooled and split between the workers in addition to their salary wages. If you dined in a restaurant with a 20% service charge, would you routinely tip? I know there are times when service is so stellar that you want to reward it, but I don't mean that. I mean for everyday service, not bad or outstanding but just expected service. I'm sure the tip line isn't going away. It is already popping up places where it doesn't really belong like the curb market where I buy tomatoes. Will you feel cheap if you ignore or zero it out? Will you look cheap? I would assume the 20% service charge was the tip, as I have many times when booking groups and parties.
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