Value Buy
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Joined: Dec 20, 2010 17:57:07 GMT -5
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Today's Mood: Getting better by the day!
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Post by Value Buy on Sept 24, 2021 10:05:23 GMT -5
My wife and I have discussed this issue. The problem is you have no clue whether your wait staff is making $7 an hour plus tips or $12 or $15 an hour.....It is not like any restaurant/bar is posting their wage scale at the door, unless there are signs in the window now hiring at $15 an hour....... Aren't there some places that split the tip with cook staff anymore? If the tip is split, you have to remember that 20% does not go that far with three people.
We met the wife's brother and sisters for a lunch three weeks ago, and service was great and the beer cold. 25% it is! Of course it was only a $33 tab for the two of us. Not sure if kitchen staff shares the tip, and I imagine it is a little out of line to ask?
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thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 24, 2021 10:20:05 GMT -5
There aren't a lot of times that someone gives you goods and services without the price fairly transparent upfront - to both the customer and the vendor. You go to the grocery store, and the prices are clearly displayed. You sell your used washing machine - you probably post a price, and even if they negotiate, you know the final agreement before you load the washer into his truck and let him drive away. You hire a contractor - there is a contract. You can ask the plumber what their service charge will be before they show up. Once they get there to diagnose, they may say it will be more money, but you have to agree before they install the part.
We have no agreement with waitstaff. They wait on us and then we decide randomly what they should earn. It is very strange. And I hate it. I hate tipping culture. I dont think it provides you better service. I just thinknit is a way for employers to not take responsibility for their employees.
(And before we get into healthcare not being transparent pricing - it is transparent between the insurance company and the hospital or dr office. It just isn't transparent to the patient.)
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Value Buy
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 17:57:07 GMT -5
Posts: 18,680
Today's Mood: Getting better by the day!
Location: In the middle of enjoying retirement!
Favorite Drink: Zombie Dust from Three Floyd's brewery
Mini-Profile Name Color: e61975
Mini-Profile Text Color: 196ce6
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Post by Value Buy on Sept 24, 2021 10:23:32 GMT -5
There aren't a lot of times that someone gives you goods and services without the price fairly transparent upfront - to both the customer and the vendor. You go to the grocery store, and the prices are clearly displayed. You sell your used washing machine - you probably post a price, and even if they negotiate, you know the final agreement before you load the washer into his truck and let him drive away. You hire a contractor - there is a contract. You can ask the plumber what their service charge will be before they show up. Once they get there to diagnose, they may say it will be more money, but you have to agree before they install the part. We have no agreement with waitstaff. They wait on us and then we decide randomly what they should earn. It is very strange. And I hate it. I hate tipping culture. I dont think it provides you better service. I just thinknit is a way for employers to not take responsibility for their employees. (And before we get into healthcare not being transparent pricing - it is transparent between the insurance company and the hospital or dr office. It just isn't transparent to the patient.) You are correct on tipping in restaurants. If you have a favorite hangout, there are waitstaff people who actually might be there for a few years, and you get to know them. Tip well, and they always take care of you even if they are having a bad day at work. If you are just passing through on vacation etc, you are correct.
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susana1954
Well-Known Member
Joined: Feb 23, 2021 18:50:55 GMT -5
Posts: 1,396
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Post by susana1954 on Sept 24, 2021 10:28:16 GMT -5
There aren't a lot of times that someone gives you goods and services without the price fairly transparent upfront - to both the customer and the vendor. You go to the grocery store, and the prices are clearly displayed. You sell your used washing machine - you probably post a price, and even if they negotiate, you know the final agreement before you load the washer into his truck and let him drive away. You hire a contractor - there is a contract. You can ask the plumber what their service charge will be before they show up. Once they get there to diagnose, they may say it will be more money, but you have to agree before they install the part. We have no agreement with waitstaff. They wait on us and then we decide randomly what they should earn. It is very strange. And I hate it. I hate tipping culture. I don't think it provides you better service. I just think it is a way for employers to not take responsibility for their employees. (And before we get into healthcare not being transparent pricing - it is transparent between the insurance company and the hospital or dr office. It just isn't transparent to the patient.) The waitstaff don't really work for us. They work for the restaurant, who decides their wages. We may tip, and the restaurant pools tips or requires the servers to tip out to the busboy, cook, etc. We have no control over it. I hate it. But I do think the service charge is not a tip. It is basically going to the restaurant to cover its operating expenses, which includes what it pays its employees. Like others have said, some wait staff earned more with tips. So I think there will be pressure to still tip, even if it is just the sight of that ubiquitous tip line.
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Lizard Queen
Senior Associate
103/2024
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 22:19:13 GMT -5
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Post by Lizard Queen on Sept 24, 2021 10:38:35 GMT -5
We haven't eaten in a restaurant since March 7, 2020 with no plans to change that in the foreseeable future. (I'm immunocompromised). We do DoorDash (and GrubHub when DoorDash is down) and we're Dash Pass members, so we pay a monthly fee in lieu of some of the service charges. There is a local $1.00 fee because our gas prices are ridiculously high. We try to tip well on DoorDash as Dashers tend to select which delivery to take based on tip offered, and we've found that this gets us our food quicker (and more likely, warmer.) Plus, we appreciate the service. We also have snacks and drinks at our front door for ALL delivery drivers. In California, restaurant wait staff makes at least the local minimum wage. Right now, I know that many places are offering more than that ($16 or $17 an hour) ~ including fast food restaurants like Taco Bell, Sonic and Chik-Fil-A. I am slowly coming to the position that service charges and fees are the new norm ~ at least in California. Rotten Ronnie’s is hiring at $16-17/hour the last time I drove through. They had an ad up on the take out window looking for employees.
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thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,372
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 24, 2021 10:40:05 GMT -5
There aren't a lot of times that someone gives you goods and services without the price fairly transparent upfront - to both the customer and the vendor. You go to the grocery store, and the prices are clearly displayed. You sell your used washing machine - you probably post a price, and even if they negotiate, you know the final agreement before you load the washer into his truck and let him drive away. You hire a contractor - there is a contract. You can ask the plumber what their service charge will be before they show up. Once they get there to diagnose, they may say it will be more money, but you have to agree before they install the part. We have no agreement with waitstaff. They wait on us and then we decide randomly what they should earn. It is very strange. And I hate it. I hate tipping culture. I don't think it provides you better service. I just think it is a way for employers to not take responsibility for their employees. (And before we get into healthcare not being transparent pricing - it is transparent between the insurance company and the hospital or dr office. It just isn't transparent to the patient.) The waitstaff don't really work for us. They work for the restaurant, who decides their wages. We may tip, and the restaurant pools tips or requires the servers to tip out to the busboy, cook, etc. We have no control over it. I hate it. But I do think the service charge is not a tip. It is basically going to the restaurant to cover its operating expenses, which includes what it pays its employees. Like others have said, some wait staff earned more with tips. So I think there will be pressure to still tip, even if it is just the sight of that ubiquitous tip line. But why would a waiter bend over backwards if the tips are pooled and split evenly. This is why I don't think tips give better service. If I have a $100 meal and that tip gets split 10 ways, the difference between me tipping 10% and 20% is negligible. I dont think this even works in the "I am a regular" scenario. I go to the grocery store 4 times a week, and the workers there got to know me and my husband. We try to be nice, and they greet us like friends. We don't tip the butcher or the cashier. But, the recognize us and know we won't karen-out on them, so it is natural to be nice back. If you go to a restaurant twice per week and treat everyone like shit, but leave 20% instead of 15%, they won't like you - in fact, they may cast lots to see who has to take you. Especially if the tips are (say it with me) pooled. The extra dollar isn't worth getting shit on every other shift.
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MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
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Post by MJ2.0 on Sept 24, 2021 10:54:53 GMT -5
The waitstaff don't really work for us. They work for the restaurant, who decides their wages. We may tip, and the restaurant pools tips or requires the servers to tip out to the busboy, cook, etc. We have no control over it. I hate it. But I do think the service charge is not a tip. It is basically going to the restaurant to cover its operating expenses, which includes what it pays its employees. Like others have said, some wait staff earned more with tips. So I think there will be pressure to still tip, even if it is just the sight of that ubiquitous tip line. But why would a waiter bend over backwards if the tips are pooled and split evenly. This is why I don't think tips give better service. If I have a $100 meal and that tip gets split 10 ways, the difference between me tipping 10% and 20% is negligible. I dont think this even works in the "I am a regular" scenario. I go to the grocery store 4 times a week, and the workers there got to know me and my husband. We try to be nice, and they greet us like friends. We don't tip the butcher or the cashier. But, the recognize us and know we won't karen-out on them, so it is natural to be nice back. If you go to a restaurant twice per week and treat everyone like shit, but leave 20% instead of 15%, they won't like you - in fact, they may cast lots to see who has to take you. Especially if the tips are (say it with me) pooled. The extra dollar isn't worth getting shit on every other shift. Honestly I don’t need waitstaff to bend over backwards - I need them to take my order, bring me the correct food at the correct temperature, and not have an attitude while doing it. There wouldn’t be this whole “bend over backwards” push if they were all paid reasonable wages out the gate instead of having like 90% of their pay based on how customers feel that day.
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trippypea
Established Member
Joined: Apr 12, 2011 20:56:05 GMT -5
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Post by trippypea on Sept 24, 2021 12:53:59 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, a 20% service charge is just a 20% mandatory tip.
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kadee79
Senior Associate
S.W. Ga., zone 8b, out in the boonies!
Joined: Mar 30, 2011 15:12:55 GMT -5
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Post by kadee79 on Sept 24, 2021 14:35:52 GMT -5
Having worked in various 'high end' restaurants in the past...the only person(s) we ever had to spit with were the bus boys. At one place since I worked the food part of the bar area, I didn't get any bus boys so I didn't split anything with them. All other employees...kitchen help, cook, hostess...all made regular wages, not the tiny wages that the wait staff made. I wouldn't work at a place that pooled the tips & split them. That's not fair to the wait staff that works their tails off to give the best service possible.
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NoNamePerson
Distinguished Associate
Is There Anybody OUT There?
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Post by NoNamePerson on Sept 24, 2021 14:47:07 GMT -5
Having worked in various 'high end' restaurants in the past...the only person(s) we ever had to spit with were the bus boys. At one place since I worked the food part of the bar area, I didn't get any bus boys so I didn't split anything with them. All other employees...kitchen help, cook, hostess...all made regular wages, not the tiny wages that the wait staff made. I wouldn't work at a place that pooled the tips & split them. That's not fair to the wait staff that works their tails off to give the best service possible. That's the way it was with resturant whose books we kept. I was never sure but had to figure pretty much industry wide. i only had to figure tips in wait, bar, busboy staff wages. Everyone else was salaried.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Sept 24, 2021 18:27:28 GMT -5
When my grad school roommate was a hostess at iHop, she got tipped out by the servers. They didn't like her because she reported all of her actual tips received. At meetings, the manager would tell the servers that she was reporting more tips than any of them and they were the ones sharing tips with her.
This was before credit cards were as widely used as they are today.
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thyme4change
Community Leader
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 25, 2021 10:06:25 GMT -5
Having worked in various 'high end' restaurants in the past...the only person(s) we ever had to spit with were the bus boys. At one place since I worked the food part of the bar area, I didn't get any bus boys so I didn't split anything with them. All other employees...kitchen help, cook, hostess...all made regular wages, not the tiny wages that the wait staff made. I wouldn't work at a place that pooled the tips & split them. That's not fair to the wait staff that works their tails off to give the best service possible. No one else works hard?
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kadee79
Senior Associate
S.W. Ga., zone 8b, out in the boonies!
Joined: Mar 30, 2011 15:12:55 GMT -5
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Post by kadee79 on Sept 25, 2021 15:10:25 GMT -5
Having worked in various 'high end' restaurants in the past...the only person(s) we ever had to spit with were the bus boys. At one place since I worked the food part of the bar area, I didn't get any bus boys so I didn't split anything with them. All other employees...kitchen help, cook, hostess...all made regular wages, not the tiny wages that the wait staff made. I wouldn't work at a place that pooled the tips & split them. That's not fair to the wait staff that works their tails off to give the best service possible. No one else works hard? I didn't say that! But why should a server have to split their tips with someone else making regular wages? And it is the wait staff that is interacting with the customers & it's up to them to give the best service possible...under the conditions of the establishment. Some places you can't give good service no matter how hard you work....but if you have never been wait staff you likely wouldn't understand.
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