Europe in the Fall/Winter - thoughts/suggestions

[justme]

So my work is changing their PTO policy which thanks to that and the pandemic I now have a lot of vacation to use before the end of the year. I have 2 weeks unaccounted for. Already did St Augustine, Savannah, Seattle, Cancun this year have NOLA, a place outside of Knoxville, a weekend cruise, and a week at Tybee island plan. 

So I was thinking doing a London, Paris, Venice trip. Since RT to London from where I am is a good price. But it seems Europe still has some restrictions on England so London might best be avoided. Was debating adding a stop in Spain instead, but just saw the France put Spain on their do not travel list so I'm not sure that's the best idea either. 

In 2022 I have a trip going to:
Rome (Civitavecchia),Italy

Santorini,Greece

Athens (Piraeus),Greece

Mykonos,Greece

Corfu,Greece

Valletta,Malta

Messina (Sicily),Italy

Naples,Italy

Florence/Pisa (Livorno),Italy


And plan to do a few days before in Rome so don't need to add that to the list. Florence/Pisa might be an option since it'd be just a quick stop there on the trip. 

Or call me an idiot for wanting to go to Europe this year.

Backups is maybe Hawaii since I've never been. Not sure on other options. Maybe some cruises? My friend is on a cruise that I could hop on and then only have one more week to figure out. 

Also there's pretty much no hope of me having anyone to go on a vacation with for those 2 weeks so solo trip all the way. Oh and yes I'm vaccinated. 

[Tennesseer]

Denmark, Norway, Sweden?

[Lizard Queen]

Germany, Austria, Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland? There are lots of other countries in Europe to explore.

[justme]

Was figuring going north wouldn't really work with France & Italy. Switzerland is something I'm thinking about - though a bit worried on the weather based on the timing of when I'd be looking at - Oct maybe Nov. 

Don't know if the train to Venice from Paris stops in Switzerland? 

[sesfw]

We took a river cruise from Moscow to St Petersburg in 2019 and loved it.  Saw amazing country and wonderful people.  Only drawback was being in July the sunset was around 10:30 pm and sunrise about 3 am.  Couple that with jetlag, and we didn't get a lot of sleep.

One year we flew to London and took the Chunnel to Brussels.  Then spent 10 days touring Belgium, Germany, Austria by train.  Had a great time.  Spent several days in Vienna and saw the beautiful horses at the Spanish Riding School, saw an opera in the Vienna Opera House, holocaust memorials, ruins, .......... all by train.

Have a good trip but do your homework before staying Paris.  Lousy city for unprepared tourists.

[TheOtherMe]

Check the State Department website to see what the rules are for getting in to and out of various countries in Europe.  Some still don't want us.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I was in Greece at the end of September, in the Greek islands in particular.  The ferry schedule changed the week after I left, but I was warned that things started shutting down.  

We were in France in December.  We lcked out in that we had incredible weather the 3 weeks we were there.  I was surprised that there were still quite a lot of tourists, and we still waited in some pretty significant lines.  The France trip included visits to Rouen and Normandy for TD, who is a WWII buff.  All of the calvados tasting rooms were all closed, as were several of the smaller museums of WWII artifacts.  We did still manage to see quite a bit, we used Cabourg as our jumping off location for sites in Normandy, and stayed in a tremendous hotel we never would have stayed in unless it was off season.  The hotel was like something out of a 1920s movie set, with updated facilities for comfort.  I’ll definitely stay there again.  

BTW….Malta is being difficult right now.  Not everyone from the US is acceptable (regardless of vaccination).  If you live in one of their decreed ‘red states’, you aren’t welcome.  They do not want you to even fly though an airport in one of their red states.  

Malta’s current red states are AL, AR, ID, KS, KY, MS, MO, MO, NE, OK, UT, WY.

[justme]

Jul 9, 2021 16:58:24 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Check the State Department website to see what the rules are for getting in to and out of various countries in Europe.  Some still don't want us.

Most are currently ok if you're vaxed. Some require a test beforehand and I've seen a few require quarantine if you're coming from a place their banning (which is why England is likely out of the running). 

Of course shit is constantly changing so who knows whether it's better or worse in three-ish months. Kinda why I'm looking for suggestions. Either Europe or elsewhere. 

[justme]

Jul 9, 2021 17:47:26 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I was in Greece at the end of September, in the Greek islands in particular.  The ferry schedule changed the week after I left, but I was warned that things started shutting down.  

We were in France in December.  We lcked out in that we had incredible weather the 3 weeks we were there.  I was surprised that there were still quite a lot of tourists, and we still waited in some pretty significant lines.  The France trip included visits to Rouen and Normandy for TD, who is a WWII buff.  All of the calvados tasting rooms were all closed, as were several of the smaller museums of WWII artifacts.  We did still manage to see quite a bit, we used Cabourg as our jumping off location for sites in Normandy, and stayed in a tremendous hotel we never would have stayed in unless it was off season.  The hotel was like something out of a 1920s movie set, with updated facilities for comfort.  I’ll definitely stay there again.  

BTW….Malta is being difficult right now.  Not everyone from the US is acceptable (regardless of vaccination).  If you live in one of their decreed ‘red states’, you aren’t welcome.  They do not want you to even fly though an airport in one of their red states.  

Malta’s current red states are AL, AR, ID, KS, KY, MS, MO, MO, NE, OK, UT, WY.

Interesting on the states. Guess they're requiring a driver's license too? But I'm not in those red states. 

My timing is weird. I have the weekend cruise in the middle of Sept and the family trip the week of Dec 11. The maybe cruise is week of Halloween if I do it and then Thanksgiving. 

[Tennesseer]

Jul 9, 2021 13:36:07 GMT -5 justme said:

Was figuring going north wouldn't really work with France & Italy. Switzerland is something I'm thinking about - though a bit worried on the weather based on the timing of when I'd be looking at - Oct maybe Nov. 

Don't know if the train to Venice from Paris stops in Switzerland? 

I one time flew to Paris and took a train to Florence, Italy. Then I took a train from Florence to Copenhagen. Then back to Paris to fly home. Done within a two week period.

[justme]

Jul 9, 2021 20:12:45 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jul 9, 2021 13:36:07 GMT -5 justme said:

Was figuring going north wouldn't really work with France & Italy. Switzerland is something I'm thinking about - though a bit worried on the weather based on the timing of when I'd be looking at - Oct maybe Nov. 

Don't know if the train to Venice from Paris stops in Switzerland? 

I one time flew to Paris and took a train to Florence, Italy. Then I took a train from Florence to Copenhagen. Then back to Paris to fly home. Done within a two week period.

Oh wow, interesting. Maybe now that things are open back up the trains are running? When I checked a month or so ago they were still shut down so no schedule so I was just going by the trains I'd researched previously. 

[tallguy]

Jul 9, 2021 17:47:26 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I was in Greece at the end of September, in the Greek islands in particular.  The ferry schedule changed the week after I left, but I was warned that things started shutting down.  

We were in France in December.  We lcked out in that we had incredible weather the 3 weeks we were there.  I was surprised that there were still quite a lot of tourists, and we still waited in some pretty significant lines.  The France trip included visits to Rouen and Normandy for TD, who is a WWII buff.  All of the calvados tasting rooms were all closed, as were several of the smaller museums of WWII artifacts.  We did still manage to see quite a bit, we used Cabourg as our jumping off location for sites in Normandy, and stayed in a tremendous hotel we never would have stayed in unless it was off season.  The hotel was like something out of a 1920s movie set, with updated facilities for comfort.  I’ll definitely stay there again.  

BTW….Malta is being difficult right now.  Not everyone from the US is acceptable (regardless of vaccination).  If you live in one of their decreed ‘red states’, you aren’t welcome.  They do not want you to even fly though an airport in one of their red states.  

Malta’s current red states are AL, AR, ID, KS, KY, MS, MO, MO, NE, OK, UT, WY.

What was the hotel, if you don't mind me asking?  GF and I had a trip to France we were starting to plan last year before everything shut down.  Thought about trying for this year, but will probably go next instead.

[Tennesseer]

Jul 9, 2021 20:45:58 GMT -5 justme said:

Jul 9, 2021 20:12:45 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I one time flew to Paris and took a train to Florence, Italy. Then I took a train from Florence to Copenhagen. Then back to Paris to fly home. Done within a two week period.

Oh wow, interesting. Maybe now that things are open back up the trains are running? When I checked a month or so ago they were still shut down so no schedule so I was just going by the trains I'd researched previously. 

Forgot to mention when I was in Copenhagen I took a ferry over to Gothenburg, Sweden for the day. I could now check Sweden off my list.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 9, 2021 21:31:21 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Jul 9, 2021 17:47:26 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I was in Greece at the end of September, in the Greek islands in particular.  The ferry schedule changed the week after I left, but I was warned that things started shutting down.  

We were in France in December.  We lcked out in that we had incredible weather the 3 weeks we were there.  I was surprised that there were still quite a lot of tourists, and we still waited in some pretty significant lines.  The France trip included visits to Rouen and Normandy for TD, who is a WWII buff.  All of the calvados tasting rooms were all closed, as were several of the smaller museums of WWII artifacts.  We did still manage to see quite a bit, we used Cabourg as our jumping off location for sites in Normandy, and stayed in a tremendous hotel we never would have stayed in unless it was off season.  The hotel was like something out of a 1920s movie set, with updated facilities for comfort.  I’ll definitely stay there again.  

BTW….Malta is being difficult right now.  Not everyone from the US is acceptable (regardless of vaccination).  If you live in one of their decreed ‘red states’, you aren’t welcome.  They do not want you to even fly though an airport in one of their red states.  

Malta’s current red states are AL, AR, ID, KS, KY, MS, MO, MO, NE, OK, UT, WY.

What was the hotel, if you don't mind me asking?  GF and I had a trip to France we were starting to plan last year before everything shut down.  Thought about trying for this year, but will probably go next instead.

This is the hotel.  We went to France about 3 weeks after the bombings in Paris.  Prices dropped 25+%, so the hotels that were out of my rice range became possible.  Off season helped too.

www.historichotels.org/hotels-resorts/le-grand-hotel-cabourg-mgallery-by-sofitel

[Opti]

Jul 9, 2021 22:52:51 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Jul 9, 2021 21:31:21 GMT -5 tallguy said:

What was the hotel, if you don't mind me asking?  GF and I had a trip to France we were starting to plan last year before everything shut down.  Thought about trying for this year, but will probably go next instead.

This is the hotel.  We went to France about 3 weeks after the bombings in Paris.  Prices dropped 25+%, so the hotels that were out of my rice range became possible.  Off season helped too.

www.historichotels.org/hotels-resorts/le-grand-hotel-cabourg-mgallery-by-sofitel

Looks amazing. Did you use any of the spa services? Any favorite meals there?

[Opti]

Jul 9, 2021 22:00:42 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jul 9, 2021 20:45:58 GMT -5 justme said:

Oh wow, interesting. Maybe now that things are open back up the trains are running? When I checked a month or so ago they were still shut down so no schedule so I was just going by the trains I'd researched previously. 

Forgot to mention when I was in Copenhagen I took a ferry over to Gothenburg, Sweden for the day. I could now check Sweden off my list.

When my current vehicle was going to be a Volvo, I was checking into delivery options in Norway, Sweden, or Denmark. I would love to visit all three. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 10, 2021 0:31:10 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jul 9, 2021 22:52:51 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

This is the hotel.  We went to France about 3 weeks after the bombings in Paris.  Prices dropped 25+%, so the hotels that were out of my rice range became possible.  Off season helped too.

www.historichotels.org/hotels-resorts/le-grand-hotel-cabourg-mgallery-by-sofitel

Looks amazing. Did you use any of the spa services? Any favorite meals there?

Didn't use the spa.  Breakfast was included in our room charge, and it was phenomenal.  We did eat in the restaurant one evening and the very little we ate was excellent but we left still hungry and it cost us way more than we wanted to spend.  We only did that once, we ate in town the rest of the time.

 

[souldoubt]

Jul 9, 2021 19:30:14 GMT -5 justme said:

Jul 9, 2021 16:58:24 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Check the State Department website to see what the rules are for getting in to and out of various countries in Europe.  Some still don't want us.

Most are currently ok if you're vaxed. Some require a test beforehand and I've seen a few require quarantine if you're coming from a place their banning (which is why England is likely out of the running). 

Of course shit is constantly changing so who knows whether it's better or worse in three-ish months. Kinda why I'm looking for suggestions. Either Europe or elsewhere. 

As you mentioned the problem is everything is in flux.  Spoke to someone who is supposed to go to Spain later this month and their family living there told them cases are on the rise as the younger un-vaccinated crowd has been out and about for about 2 months after the prior lock down ended.  They're vaccinated and have family they'll stay with but for anyone else not in a similar position they run the risk of their vacation turning into a lock down in a foreign country.  We really enjoyed Austria and would love to go back and spend more time in Hungary, Czech Republic, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Greece and Croatia but I can't commit to planning a trip to Europe until we see a solid 6 months or so of no threats of lock down.  We went to Maui in May and it was really nice after 2020 but that's our go to annual trip so we're a bit biased.  I believe Hawaii removed the testing requirements for vaccinated travelers from the US and we may end up doing another trip there this year since we know what to expect.    

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

The biggest issue is that despite being vaccinated you still have to get a PCR to enter many of the countries no more than 72 hours before either you arrive or depart.  When I checked locally, PCRs have a 24-48 hour turn around.  That gives you *just* 24 hours to get where you want to go.

We are going to the Maldives via Dubai.  We have to have a PCR 72 hours before we depart for Dubai, 96 hours before leaving for Male, but have a long layover.  

Belize was easy.  We only had to show a vaccination certificate to enter and had to have a negative covid to get back into the US.  The dive resort had the covid testing set up, so just had to show up and offer our nostrils and got our results on check out.  

[debthaven]

just saw the France put Spain on their do not travel list so I'm not sure that's the best idea either.

This isn't really true ... for now it's just "advice". But there IS talk about imposing a quarantine for people returning to France from Spain and Portugal. Macron may even announce it tomorrow. We have a wedding in Spain in late July so I've been following this closely ... if we have to quarantine when we get home we won't go.

Personally I wouldn't make plans now because everything IS changing so fast. 

[justme]

Jul 11, 2021 1:19:50 GMT -5 debthaven said:

just saw the France put Spain on their do not travel list so I'm not sure that's the best idea either.

This isn't really true ... for now it's just "advice". But there IS talk about imposing a quarantine for people returning to France from Spain and Portugal. Macron may even announce it tomorrow. We have a wedding in Spain in late July so I've been following this closely ... if we have to quarantine when we get home we won't go.

Personally I wouldn't make plans now because everything IS changing so fast. 

I'm not making hard and fast plans for sure. But I have to have general ideas so I can implement them fast - whether it's Europe or somewhere else. It's time I have to use and I don't want to sit at home!

I had really hoped things wouldn't be quite as fluid as they still are.

[happyhoix]

Jul 9, 2021 20:45:58 GMT -5 justme said:

Jul 9, 2021 20:12:45 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I one time flew to Paris and took a train to Florence, Italy. Then I took a train from Florence to Copenhagen. Then back to Paris to fly home. Done within a two week period.

Oh wow, interesting. Maybe now that things are open back up the trains are running? When I checked a month or so ago they were still shut down so no schedule so I was just going by the trains I'd researched previously. 

See if the TGV trains are running in France - high speed rail. That’s the way to travel.

[debthaven]

They are running.

[Bonny]

Our German-American friends are limiting their European trip to one country to avoid the myriad of different rules. I was surprised to hear that her 69 year old sister was STILL having problems getting her second shot in Germany.

Sounds like there are vacine supply chain issues through a lot of Europe.

[souldoubt]

www.yahoo.com/news/delta-variants-rise-plunges-europe-into-uncertainty-and-offers-a-warning-to-the-us-090002409.html

[lurkyloo]

Unpopular opinion: check out the Christmas markets in Germany.  Sipping gluehwein and eating crepes and hot pretzels while wandering around    If you want to minimize border crossings and are going to France, Strasbourg has enough German heritage it probably does a Weihnachtsmarkt.

I like Germany bc things are straightforward, on time, and people follow the rules, which takes a lot of stress out of the holiday.  Austria is also beautiful but I might save that for a time when the weather is nicer...similarly Scandinavia depending how far north you are might have some pretty short days that time of year.

Warning: most of my European travel advice is 20 years or so out of date.  How did that happen?

[debthaven]

justme , for now they are allowing fully vaccinated people to travel freely in Europe. But remember, the UK is no longer "officially" part of Europe, so for now they have their own rules. 

[swamp]

I went to Madrid Spain in January 2017. It was about 30 to 40 degrees. I thought it was great. I traveled with my sister who lives in FL. She was freezing.

Then I did Italy in September 2019. It was hot.

[justme]

Jul 20, 2021 16:41:33 GMT -5 debthaven said:

justme , for now they are allowing fully vaccinated people to travel freely in Europe. But remember, the UK is no longer "officially" part of Europe, so for now they have their own rules. 

Yea, I'm leaning on just ignoring it. London is one of the few European cities that have direct flights from my home airport. So it'd be easy enough to pop over there on another trip.