Questioning myself

[Ava]

As I've already mentioned in the What are you doing right now thread, I'm questioning my financial picture.

I've lived very frugally since I arrived in this country in 2002.
First, because there wasn't enough money for more.
Then, because I understood how the system works and I need to save if I want to support myself in retirement.
Since I had a late start, I'm saving as much as possible. For the last 3 years I've been maxing out retirement accounts.
That's a huge sacrifice for me, since I don't make that much.
But I started so late, that I actually don't have much saved despite the good market returns and maxing out.
Next year I become eligible for catch up contributions, and I'm looking for ways to cut expenses more, plus I'll probably need a promotion, which will be difficult to get.
The promotion, if I get it, won't buy me anything but more retirement contributions.

So much savings, so much living very frugally. When does it end? When do I get to enjoy some perks of all the sacrifices I made to get here?

I want to move to a nicer place and have some services I could enjoy, like a house cleaner and airplane business class tickets.
Maybe it's because of the pandemic and being home all the time that now I'm so tired of living in a poor town in the middle of nowhere. Maybe the pandemic made me realize life is short and I may never get to enjoy the money I'm saving.
I can get hit by a bus tomorrow, or it all may be spent in medical care, etc.

Ironically, the perks I'm craving are not that many and not that expensive. But that doesn't matter when you cannot afford them.

Anyone else gone through a period of feeling like this? How did you cope?

At the end of the day, I know I'm not going to do anything but continue to save.
I am grateful that I can save and max out. 
I'm a single woman and I need to take care of myself. I need to continue saving. Plus I have SL that are sitting in limbo right now but I may have to start paying again soon.

I'm just venting because I'm tired and frustrated.

[imawino]

Sorry you are feeling tired and frustrated!  It's great that you have been maxing out savings, you should feel proud.  But it's also okay to take a month or two off of maxing and enjoy a treat, as long as you get back to it.    I don't know your exact financial details so maybe that's bad advice, but given you seem responsible and frugal in general, giving yourself a small break to treat yo'self and not feel like you are perpetually struggling shouldn't destroy your overall finances.  Sometimes we all need a little mental re-set to reinvigorate ourselves so that we can refocus on our goals.

I forget, do you plan to retire here or go back home to be closer to family?  

[mary2029]

Great job on maxing your retirement for the last three years and for living frugally for almost 20.  
Few suggestions: 
1. Count your blessings. True, you aren't getting everything you want, but you are spending money on things you enjoy.  Every year (COVID-excluded), (if I remember correctly) you take a trip home and you pay for your mom to come on a trip up here for the summer. That is two international trips a year that most Americans do not get to do. Even if you do it cheaply, there are still associated expenses with this. You are also able to support yourself (huge badge of honor!). 
2. Make/Analyze your budget. Outline your priorities... do they line up with the budget? Is moving to a nicer place part of your budget? I remember you mentioning the issues/concerns with your current condo, but it still sounds safe. Would you be willing to save $200/month more to live in a better place knowing that will mean one less international trip a year?  Would a business class trip every two years make up for one less trip a year? I've been upgraded to first class once due to an airline delay; I would have rather gone coach as originally planned and had that day spent at my destination then lose a day and go first class. 
3. Look at your retirement funds. Do you have a proper allocation between stocks and bonds (for you)? If you have a lot of bonds, it may be time to reconsider and become more aggressive. 
4. Know everyone is in the same boat. While it may not seem like you've gained much, I'm sure you have. Join NetWorth (or something like it) to report your progress monthly. I've done this sporadically and it is definitely satisfying to look at my progress over time. I'm sure that you've read about MPL's inspiring progress as well. It takes a working career to go from nothing to a decent retirement nest egg.  My favorite financial fable is the Ant and the Grasshopper... it sucks to be an ant all the time when the grasshopper gets to play, but come winter, when there are no options, you will be able to survive.  

[thyme4change]

Unfortunately, sometimes sacrifice today just prevents poverty and serious discomfort in the future, rather than some future luxuries that you could have enjoyed earlier. The worst part is that you can just never tell how much you need.

😒

[tcu2003]

Hang in there, ava! 

It definitely stinks when you see other people with things you don't have and/or things you want. For me, it helps to remind myself that in many cases, they may be in debt up to their eyeballs, or not saving for retirement, and that just isn't something I'm comfortable doing. I also try to do something to recharge my batteries when I feel like that - in my case, curl up with a good book, go for a long walk, or do something low-key and fun with my friends or family.

Would it help you feel better about where you're at retirement-wise if you posted your retirement savings and what it's invested in for everyone here to have fun reviewing? I can't remember if you've done that before or not. 

[plugginaway22]

Can I ask how old you are? About the time I hit 50 these same feelings started to creep in but I had 3 kids and needed to beef up retirement funds so just kept trudging along. AND, I still made sure to plan trips, and enjoy LIFE along the way. You are doing great!

[souldoubt]

I believe she's 48/49 as she said next year she will be eligible for catch up contributions.

I'm guessing a lot of people on these boards feel the same way at times.  You don't have to look far for people you know or even just others you come in contact with who seem to live care free and live in the now.  The problem is that many of those people financially are living like there's no tomorrow and if they live to a certain age they're going to regret the choices they're making today.  I'd rather have and not need than need and not have when it comes to many things in life so I'm fine making sacrifices now.  That doesn't mean you can't enjoy life now you just have to pick and choose what you can afford to enjoy now - like living somewhere else, getting a bigger/nicer house, taking trips, cars, clothes, etc.

[jerseygirl]

We couldn’t really save much till all 3 kids finished college and one medical school. No loans, we paid as they went
But once that was over we really put it away into retirement accounts. Actually just me cause Jerseyguy retired at 52. He said I either retire or die of heart attack. Guy who took his place died of heart attack in his first year. Once he retired I took a higher paying job and stated consulting also. I enjoy what I do. Cause I traveled internationally for business that was a plus
Anyway savings after those years when I was >50 are giving us a good retirement income

[giramomma]

I agree, it sounds like you are burned out.  You are responsible. You can open the purse strings again for a little bit. You'll close them when you need to.

Otherwise, most folks I know...Life is not sexy, or even fun. The ones that I know that have a fun time of it, even with challenges are the ones that are CFO types in their businesses, married to another high level professional. At that level of income, the drugery can be outsourced. They can afford to hire 24/7 child care while they are away on their lengthy business trips. They can afford to hire care for parents. The can afford to hire out house cleaning, meals, and they can afford to save for retirement, and have nice things.

Adulting sucks. It's the dirty little secret no one ever tells you. Can you image college graduations if that was the message instead?

I love this Bruce Lee quote "Do not pray for an easy life, pray for the strength to endure a difficult one." Because, I do believe that is closer to the truth than anything else.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jun 28, 2021 8:22:43 GMT -5 Ava said:

So much savings, so much living very frugally. When does it end? When do I get to enjoy some perks of all the sacrifices I made to get here?

Your savings is mostly retirement though, so it's really meant to just keep maintaining your current standard of living after you quit working, not to up it. 

But, I can relate to occasionally just wanting to say "F*** it".  I mean, I COULD kick over tomorrow and all the savings was for nothing.  I usually don't stay in those moods long (thankfully), so hopefully yours won't last. 

This past week with my cousins always gets me a little down, I love seeing them, but they are all seemingly doing so much better than I am.  Another one just retired (she's in her 40's) and they sold their house and bought a huge, beautiful RV and are going to just be nomads for awhile. I have to remember that the ones that can afford to just drop everything and fly out here on a few weeks notice for a family reunion are the well off ones.  There are quite a few that didn't come. 

[Ava]

Jun 28, 2021 9:59:40 GMT -5 imawino said:

Sorry you are feeling tired and frustrated!  It's great that you have been maxing out savings, you should feel proud.  But it's also okay to take a month or two off of maxing and enjoy a treat, as long as you get back to it.    I don't know your exact financial details so maybe that's bad advice, but given you seem responsible and frugal in general, giving yourself a small break to treat yo'self and not feel like you are perpetually struggling shouldn't destroy your overall finances.  Sometimes we all need a little mental re-set to reinvigorate ourselves so that we can refocus on our goals.

I forget, do you plan to retire here or go back home to be closer to family?  

Thank you.
I don't need to reduce contributions to give myself a treat. I have some money in savings I could use.
I would like to take a one week vacation, and I'm thinking Charleston and Myrtle Beach, SC.
It will have to be in September because we're overwhelmed at work and no vacation time will be approved until September.

I originally planned to retire full time to Uruguay. But I'm not sure now.

[Ava]

Jun 28, 2021 12:46:37 GMT -5 tcu2003 said:

Hang in there, ava! 

It definitely stinks when you see other people with things you don't have and/or things you want. For me, it helps to remind myself that in many cases, they may be in debt up to their eyeballs, or not saving for retirement, and that just isn't something I'm comfortable doing. I also try to do something to recharge my batteries when I feel like that - in my case, curl up with a good book, go for a long walk, or do something low-key and fun with my friends or family.

Would it help you feel better about where you're at retirement-wise if you posted your retirement savings and what it's invested in for everyone here to have fun reviewing? I can't remember if you've done that before or not. 

I have posted in the Net Worth thread in WIRR.
My current retirement account balance is $218,000. Mostly 401k but also Roth and Traditional IRAs since I've been maxing them since I got promoted in 2018.
They are all with Fidelity on a target date fund of 2050 and they have been growing quite a bit.
I opened my first IRA and started funding the 401k in 2014.

[Ava]

Jun 28, 2021 12:49:33 GMT -5 plugginaway22 said:

Can I ask how old you are? About the time I hit 50 these same feelings started to creep in but I had 3 kids and needed to beef up retirement funds so just kept trudging along. AND, I still made sure to plan trips, and enjoy LIFE along the way. You are doing great!

Thank you. Glad it worked out for you.

I'm 48, turn 49 in November.

I think age has something to do with the way I feel. Probably it's a midlife crisis (or a late midlife crisis unless I live to 100)

I enjoy traveling to Uruguay during winter, and I go out to lunch here and there. 
Enjoying life shouldn't necessarily mean spending money, so I should focus more on that.
On the other hand, sometimes you have to spend some money. For instance, my favorite beach used to have free parking, but this year started charging for season parking passes. So I plan to get one of those for next month, so I can go to the beach in July, August and September.

[Ava]

giramomma
Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment.

Yes, I think I'm burned out. It seems to be a combination of pandemic, being isolated for around 15 months, many years in the workforce, closing on 50 years old, etc.

Yes, adulting for the most part sucks. And I consider I'm having a relatively easy ride because I'm only responsible for myself, with no kids or SO.

I'll pull through it. 

I'm not comparing myself with what others do or have. I don't care, really. I'm comparing the life I have with the life I would like to have, regarding quality. Of course I'm not a CFO or CEO and I won't be able to source out everything. 
A housecleaner twice a month, a comfortable business class seat once a year. A girl can dream.

The condo on the beach is a fantasy that won't happen. I don't like CT so even if I remain here until 60 or so, what's the point of buying one. And it would double my housing costs.
My condo is 45 minutes from the beach, so far but drivable. And it's CHEAP to live here.
All included, it's $800 a month for P+I, HOA, insurance. It's not horrible, it's just a sad poor town. People throw garbage on the streets, most houses are multi family and quite old, etc. There are no nice amenities around here. A good restaurant, theater, pool, beach, museum are all 45 minutes away.
Living here has allowed me to save so much, and I'm grateful for that.
Low crime and very quiet, though.

[Ava]

I'm pretty sure if I can have my December-January vacation in Uruguay this year, I will feel so much better. It's been a while and it's not been easy, being here alone all this time with the pandemic.

[CCL]

I'm sorry you're getting discouraged Ava. You've accomplished so much!

This pandemic has taken a toll on everyone in one way or another.

Will you be eligible for a pension at all when you retire?

Aren't you a CPA? I always thought they were paid well.

[Tiny]

For the last 3 years I've been maxing out retirement accounts.

Next year I become eligible for catch up contributions, and I'm looking for ways to cut expenses more, plus I'll probably need a promotion, which will be difficult to get.

I remember the feeling when I was 49 and realized I would be able to contribute more to 401K and ROTH. It was a sinking feeling. I had finally managed to max my 401K and a Roth (it had taken me 5 years to build up to maxing them). I had gone a couple of years being able to keep up with the small increases in contributions and was feeling pretty good! And then "over night" I discovered I would need to find a big to me amount to contribute to keep hitting the max once I turned 50. ::sigh::

I took two years to re-adjust my budget/spending to get back to maxing 401K and Roth. Even now when the amount to contribute goes up I groan a little.

Come up with a plan you can stick with - even if it's just the "I'll bump up my contributions 1% or 2% every year and see how it goes".

You might feel "behind" but you are moving "ahead" of lots of people who aren't saving at all.

[Ava]

Tiny

lol. That's exactly what I'm feeling right now.
After all the efforts savings, now I get the catch up buckets to fill with even more money.

I did something similar to what you describe when I decided to max contributions. I started with 10% and went up 1% each month. I was at 16% when I got promoted and then I maxed.
Right now I put 27% of salary on the 401k, I get approx. $5,000 in tax refund and bonus in March, and then add another $1,000 I save through the year for the IRA.

I'm going to use the same strategy come January; go 1% up every now and then to use the catch up space. 

[Ava]

Jun 28, 2021 19:07:27 GMT -5 CCL said:

I'm sorry you're getting discouraged Ava. You've accomplished so much!

This pandemic has taken a toll on everyone in one way or another.

Will you be eligible for a pension at all when you retire?

Aren't you a CPA? I always thought they were paid well.

Thank you, CCL.
Yes, I am a CPA and very proud of it.
I work as a financial analyst though. I had the job before I got the CPA license.

I did the CPA mostly for myself, plus it's very hard to break into a new industry at my age, believe it or not ageism is alive and well. Besides that, I don't have the energy of a typical 25 years-old who gets their license and work crazy hours at a big-four. Not that I want to do it, either.

[giramomma]

What about moving into a controller position? Is that different than being an analyst? (I think it is).

Thats what my FIL did, and he did well.

[imawino]

Jun 28, 2021 17:57:52 GMT -5 Ava said:

Jun 28, 2021 9:59:40 GMT -5 imawino said:

Sorry you are feeling tired and frustrated!  It's great that you have been maxing out savings, you should feel proud.  But it's also okay to take a month or two off of maxing and enjoy a treat, as long as you get back to it.    I don't know your exact financial details so maybe that's bad advice, but given you seem responsible and frugal in general, giving yourself a small break to treat yo'self and not feel like you are perpetually struggling shouldn't destroy your overall finances.  Sometimes we all need a little mental re-set to reinvigorate ourselves so that we can refocus on our goals.

I forget, do you plan to retire here or go back home to be closer to family?  

Thank you.
I don't need to reduce contributions to give myself a treat. I have some money in savings I could use.
I would like to take a one week vacation, and I'm thinking Charleston and Myrtle Beach, SC.
It will have to be in September because we're overwhelmed at work and no vacation time will be approved until September.

I originally planned to retire full time to Uruguay. But I'm not sure now.

Do it!  Charleston & Myrtle Beach are nicer in September anyway, so that should work out well.  Less hot (at least late September) and less kids crowding things up! 

[jerseygirl]

We go to Jersey shore every September. Not crowded and water is warmer

[Ava]

Jersey Shore sounds good too, as long as the water is warm. I can't stand cold water anymore, lol.

But the idea is SC not only to go to the beach but also because there's so much to see and visit.

[Ava]

Jun 29, 2021 11:45:12 GMT -5 giramomma said:

What about moving into a controller position? Is that different than being an analyst? (I think it is).

Thats what my FIL did, and he did well.

I don't think I have the right experience for that.

As I got my license and looked around I noticed at my age experience is more important than anything. Also, employers tend to box you in a little spot where you've been doing A so we'll consider you for a job doing A, if you apply for B we'll just turn down your application because we'll have to train you and we won't do that.

Anyway, work-life has been great where I'm at. And the group I work with is very good, excellent people, positive environment, no backstabbing, no bad vibes, bulling, etc.

There's theoretically the opportunity to move up one pay grade, but they just promoted a coworker to that paygrade, and she's the first getting there in the last five years. So I think my options are remain at my pay grade or move on to another group or even another employer.
Since we're overwhelmed right now and transitioning to a merger, I'll wait until the dust settles to see where I stand and what to do going forward.

[CCL]

Jun 29, 2021 11:47:53 GMT -5 imawino said:

Jun 28, 2021 17:57:52 GMT -5 Ava said:

Thank you.
I don't need to reduce contributions to give myself a treat. I have some money in savings I could use.
I would like to take a one week vacation, and I'm thinking Charleston and Myrtle Beach, SC.
It will have to be in September because we're overwhelmed at work and no vacation time will be approved until September.

I originally planned to retire full time to Uruguay. But I'm not sure now.

Do it!  Charleston & Myrtle Beach are nicer in September anyway, so that should work out well.  Less hot (at least late September) and less kids crowding things up! 

Charleston is wonderful. It's a couple hours south, but I prefer Hilton Head over Myrtle Beach. September and October are both good months to go. Prices usually drop in October, so that's when we head down.

[mary2029]

Jun 29, 2021 11:02:33 GMT -5 Ava said:

Tiny

lol. That's exactly what I'm feeling right now.
After all the efforts savings, now I get the catch up buckets to fill with even more money.

I did something similar to what you describe when I decided to max contributions. I started with 10% and went up 1% each month. I was at 16% when I got promoted and then I maxed.
Right now I put 27% of salary on the 401k, I get approx. $5,000 in tax refund and bonus in March, and then add another $1,000 I save through the year for the IRA.

I'm going to use the same strategy come January; go 1% up every now and then to use the catch up space. 

Just a heads-up for what happened to me when I turned the magical "catch-up" year last year... I had to:
1) tell the 401K holding company that I was turning/turned 50 and
2) provide additional permission for the 401K company to take the money from my paycheck.
This did NOT happen automatically. 

A simplified view of what my allocation page looks like: 

Contributions to Standard 401K                    X% of gross
Catch-up contributions to Standard 401K       Y% of gross

Since I didn't know/catch this ahead of time and I was trying to max my 401K, I significantly increased by Y% for the last three months of the year. This year, the 401K holding company took (X% + Y%) of the gross in the first paycheck, instead of what I assumed would be X% until it reaches $19.5K and then start withdrawing the Y%.  

So, it was a very tight January/February until the readjustments on the Y% were made. Hope you learn from my mistake.  

[debthaven]

Ava have you actually looked into selling your condo and buying one closer to the beach? Sounds like you'd be much happier there. 

[Ava]

mary2029
Thanks for the heads up.
Glad you mentioned it because I was going to do exactly what you did.
You would think, in this technological age, those things would adjust automatically. They do have my DOB, after all.

[Ava]

Jul 1, 2021 11:58:17 GMT -5 debthaven said:

Ava have you actually looked into selling your condo and buying one closer to the beach? Sounds like you'd be much happier there. 

You're always so sweet and positive, I'm glad you're part of these boards.

Not going to happen for now, housing cost would more than double. Besides, I have the (slightest) hope of becoming remote and then I would move down south near the beach.

Everything is pending now, which I guess contributes to my sense of having had enough.
My job may or may not exist after the merger, I may or may not be able to work remotely after the merger if I'm still employed, etc.
With all the uncertainty and pending possible changes, I'm not going to buy anything right now.

[Deleted]

Jun 28, 2021 13:46:49 GMT -5 giramomma said:

I agree, it sounds like you are burned out.  You are responsible. You can open the purse strings again for a little bit. You'll close them when you need to.

Otherwise, most folks I know...Life is not sexy, or even fun. The ones that I know that have a fun time of it, even with challenges are the ones that are CFO types in their businesses, married to another high level professional. At that level of income, the drugery can be outsourced. They can afford to hire 24/7 child care while they are away on their lengthy business trips. They can afford to hire care for parents. The can afford to hire out house cleaning, meals, and they can afford to save for retirement, and have nice things.

Adulting sucks. It's the dirty little secret no one ever tells you. Can you image college graduations if that was the message instead?

I love this Bruce Lee quote "Do not pray for an easy life, pray for the strength to endure a difficult one." Because, I do believe that is closer to the truth than anything else.

First, let me say that anything I say in this post is not directed toward giramomma, even though I quoted your/her post. I’m just sharing my thoughts, with no intention to knock anyone that thinks differently from me. I genuinely believe that all of us here are doing the best we can with what we have to work with.

Anyway….. I’m going to be the odd man out here, and probably weird, which is ok…. I’m used to being considered weird . I’ve thought a lot about this post since it was first posted. And as much as I’ve thought about it, my feelings haven’t changed.

WHY can’t life be sexy and fun for regular people? My “mid life crisis” started in my mid 30’s because I started to believe that there HAS to be more to life than devoting most of our time awake to earn money so we can survive today and in our old age. Is that really what life is supposed to be about? Sacrificing time with the people we love and time doing the things that bring us joy, that satisfy our souls…. in pursuit of the almighty dollar….. for the majority of our lives, the first 60 or 70 years of it….. to meet our present needs and the needs of our future, older selves? Hoping that after 60 or 70 years of grinding, we can maybe over the next 20 or 30 years, if we’re lucky!, spend the majority of our time doing what brings us joy? Again, if we even live that long. How does that even make sense?

I understand that that’s just how it is in these great United States of America, but without even getting into how all of so many Americans’ decades of hard work helps the wealthy get wealthier and enjoy lifestyles like the CFO’s that giramomma mentioned while we just struggle along and make due during our working years, I soundly reject the idea that that is what life should be. I believe with everything in me, that that is not what I was born on this earth to do. I don’t think it’s what any of us were meant to do, unless it’s a burning desire to make a certain thing happen outside of survival or that’s really what brings one joy. In those cases, have at it, because that’s what you really want.

But if you ask me what I WAS born on this earth to do, I’ll get squiggly, because I still haven’t figured that out.

To me, it’s not about life being easy or difficult, it’s about each of our lives having meaning. I don’t give a fuck if at my funeral, somebody from my job says I was a good employee who did this or that. I care more about people thinking, even if they don’t say it, that I touched their lives in some kind of positive way, that people cherish memories of times spent with me, that I lived my life in a way that was meaningful to me and I sprinkled a little joy in other people’s lives along the way. 

And I still can’t figure out how to make that work without spending the majority of my days doing shit I really don’t want want to do just so I can eat, and trying to make myself fit into a life I don’t believe is meant for me.

Life is not like this everywhere in the world. Of course, in some places, life is much worse in ways that have little to nothing to do with money. I do know that. I’m just not really feeling how in our society, so much of life is about an endless paper chase moreso than just living a joyful life and being a free human being.

All that to say Ava, that I really feel you on questioning yourself, even if the questions I ask myself are different from yours. You’ve been so much more courageous than I’ve ever been, by moving to a whole ‘nother country and doing what you needed to do to be successful. My oath was different, but I still managed to get to a point where I could take care of my responsibilities and live a comfortable life. We’re both good people that are willing to work for what we want even though our paths have been different, and in some ways, you made a lot of choices that were better than mine….. I’d never try to take that from you. But at the end of the day, my life and lifestyle doesn’t really feed my soul and yours doesn’t seem to feed yours either. Is that just the American way? 

I don’t know if anything I’ve said even made sense, but those are my jumbled up thoughts.