Do People Just Not Want To Work Anymore?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I had quite a few people try to insist I had to quit my job.  Uhh.. . I carry our health insurance and my job isn't so easy to replace.   Besides that if you quit in NE you don't get unemployment and they did not adopt the clause that if you quit cause of COVID you can collect.   

I would have been debating having DH quit Tyson though.  At $9/hr at the time and given the way they have handled COVID I would have been crunching the numbers.

[Deleted]

May 18, 2021 11:54:39 GMT -5 giramomma said:

At my son's store. There were one or two case of covid last spring. There were a few cases of covid at store 45 minutes south of us.

That was it.

He also was paid multiple covid bonuses. He was paid retention bonuses the first three months of working. He also got two holiday bonuses. One for thanksgiving, and one for christmas/new years. There were more bonuses on top of that. He also got three raises his first year of working at his job. One for turning 16. One after probation. And another one. I've forgotten why.

His store was handing out face shields to employees that were not comfortable with masks alone. They were one of the first stores to get people moving in one direction and installing plastic barriers between works and patrons.

His store also hired three security guards to deal with patrons not wearing masks. They are now down to one, by the way.

We were careful with covid, but at some point, I still have to make sure my children can launch and be functional in a timeline that also works for me. . I can't work two jobs until I'm 70. Something has to give.

I'm really happy to see this. Your son's employer sounds exceptional and I can see why, after weighing risks and benefits, you decided it was best for him to keep working there. I'm guessing they've had an easier time keeping employees.

DDIL's SIL (married to DDIL's brother) works at a grocery store in an area where the customers didn't really like wearing masks (despite local mandate) and her store supported the customers. Some customers actually claimed they were COVID positive. Her elderly father lives with them and she had to be really careful. She was some sort of manager so didn't want to find another job; I think she was the one who had health insurance. Fortunately I think they pulled through OK.

There have been huge differences in how businesses have treated their "essential workers" and some don't deserve to find employees.

[imawino]

May 18, 2021 14:53:57 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

May 18, 2021 11:54:39 GMT -5 giramomma said:

At my son's store. There were one or two case of covid last spring. There were a few cases of covid at store 45 minutes south of us.

That was it.

He also was paid multiple covid bonuses. He was paid retention bonuses the first three months of working. He also got two holiday bonuses. One for thanksgiving, and one for christmas/new years. There were more bonuses on top of that. He also got three raises his first year of working at his job. One for turning 16. One after probation. And another one. I've forgotten why.

His store was handing out face shields to employees that were not comfortable with masks alone. They were one of the first stores to get people moving in one direction and installing plastic barriers between works and patrons.

His store also hired three security guards to deal with patrons not wearing masks. They are now down to one, by the way.

We were careful with covid, but at some point, I still have to make sure my children can launch and be functional in a timeline that also works for me. . I can't work two jobs until I'm 70. Something has to give.

I'm really happy to see this. Your son's employer sounds exceptional and I can see why, after weighing risks and benefits, you decided it was best for him to keep working there. I'm guessing they've had an easier time keeping employees.

DDIL's SIL (married to DDIL's brother) works at a grocery store in an area where the customers didn't really like wearing masks (despite local mandate) and her store supported the customers. Some customers actually claimed they were COVID positive. Her elderly father lives with them and she had to be really careful. She was some sort of manager so didn't want to find another job; I think she was the one who had health insurance. Fortunately I think they pulled through OK.

There have been huge differences in how businesses have treated their "essential workers" and some don't deserve to find employees.

I agree with the bolded.  Sure, for a brief period of time a small set of workers have found that they can make more on unemployment, or at least not take too much of a loss.  The world has been all topsy turvy lately, an for many folks in public-facing jobs with a half-crazy public milling around out there I can't blame them for opting out.

I do think, in general, most people want to work IF they feel valued.  But when they get paid crap, and the public tosses out comments about how X unskilled position isn't "worth" a living wage, or doesn't "deserve" a living wage, you don't feel valued.  Since we have developed a (really stupid) system as a country where your health care is determined largely by where you work, if your employer doesn't provide you with health insurance, you don't feel valued.  If your employer didn't provide you with PPE and safeguards during the pandemic, or make any effort to keep you safe from the hostile Trumpian Anti Maskforce, you don't feel valued.  I cannot fault people in the service industry for sitting it out as much as possible.  In many, many states unemployment compensation is a small amount.  Even with the temporary boost, no one has exactly been getting rich.

[chiver78]

May 18, 2021 14:28:54 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I had quite a few people try to insist I had to quit my job.  Uhh.. . I carry our health insurance and my job isn't so easy to replace.   Besides that if you quit in NE you don't get unemployment and they did not adopt the clause that if you quit cause of COVID you can collect.   

I would have been debating having DH quit Tyson though.  At $9/hr at the time and given the way they have handled COVID I would have been crunching the numbers.

I'm sorry, I know we've been discussing COL, and how much different it is across the country. I don't mean to circle back around to it. but legit, he's in QA for a food company, and he's making less than I did as a college student folding men's button-down shirts 20y ago? 

[billisonboard]

May 18, 2021 15:09:05 GMT -5 imawino said:

May 18, 2021 14:53:57 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

I'm really happy to see this. Your son's employer sounds exceptional and I can see why, after weighing risks and benefits, you decided it was best for him to keep working there. I'm guessing they've had an easier time keeping employees.

DDIL's SIL (married to DDIL's brother) works at a grocery store in an area where the customers didn't really like wearing masks (despite local mandate) and her store supported the customers. Some customers actually claimed they were COVID positive. Her elderly father lives with them and she had to be really careful. She was some sort of manager so didn't want to find another job; I think she was the one who had health insurance. Fortunately I think they pulled through OK.

There have been huge differences in how businesses have treated their "essential workers" and some don't deserve to find employees.

I agree with the bolded.  Sure, for a brief period of time a small set of workers have found that they can make more on unemployment, or at least not take too much of a loss.  The world has been all topsy turvy lately, an for many folks in public-facing jobs with a half-crazy public milling around out there I can't blame them for opting out.

I do think, in general, most people want to work IF they feel valued.  But when they get paid crap, and the public tosses out comments about how X unskilled position isn't "worth" a living wage, or doesn't "deserve" a living wage, you don't feel valued.  Since we have developed a (really stupid) system as a country where your health care is determined largely by where you work, if your employer doesn't provide you with health insurance, you don't feel valued.  If your employer didn't provide you with PPE and safeguards during the pandemic, or make any effort to keep you safe from the hostile Trumpian Anti Maskforce, you don't feel valued.  I cannot fault people in the service industry for sitting it out as much as possible.  In many, many states unemployment compensation is a small amount.  Even with the temporary boost, no one has exactly been getting rich.

Well, not from the trifle amount added to unemployment. However: How billionaires saw their net worth increase by half a trillion dollars during the pandemic

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

May 18, 2021 15:14:35 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

May 18, 2021 14:28:54 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I had quite a few people try to insist I had to quit my job.  Uhh.. . I carry our health insurance and my job isn't so easy to replace.   Besides that if you quit in NE you don't get unemployment and they did not adopt the clause that if you quit cause of COVID you can collect.   

I would have been debating having DH quit Tyson though.  At $9/hr at the time and given the way they have handled COVID I would have been crunching the numbers.

I'm sorry, I know we've been discussing COL, and how much different it is across the country. I don't mean to circle back around to it. but legit, he's in QA for a food company, and he's making less than I did as a college student folding men's button-down shirts 20y ago? 

He hasn't worked there for quite awhile.  It wasn't long after Gwen was born in 2010 he left.  That company SUCKS and the way they handled COVID highlighted that.  I don't blame anyone who decided working for these companies wasn't worth it anymore.

Now they are offering $15-$17 to get you in the door.

[chiver78]

May 18, 2021 15:24:41 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

May 18, 2021 15:14:35 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

I'm sorry, I know we've been discussing COL, and how much different it is across the country. I don't mean to circle back around to it. but legit, he's in QA for a food company, and he's making less than I did as a college student folding men's button-down shirts 20y ago? 

He hasn't worked there for quite awhile.  It wasn't long after Gwen was born in 2010 he left.  That company SUCKS and the way they handled COVID highlighted that.  I don't blame anyone who decided working for these companies wasn't worth it anymore.

Now they are offering $15-$17 to get you in the door.

ohhhh.....now that you say this, I remember back then right around when we moved here from MSN. with the post I quoted, I was reading that as the job he had last summer when things were starting to close down. 

as you were, sorry for confusion! 

[TheOtherMe]

DN3 manages a Dairy Queen.  He said they changed all of their protocols as in if you cook at the fryer, that is all you do.  If you do ice cream, that is all you do.  Absolutely no switching duties during the shift.  

When restaurants in Iowa could open up, they were already doing a booming business at the drive thru, which they always have.  Their problem was getting customers to respect both the mask requirement and the caution tape they put up at booths which were not to be occupied.  They wanted to sit with their friends and neighbors.

He has said they have never had problems having enough people to work.  He has also said they can always use more students because kids call in on a whim.  

The owner does treat them very well, almost too well.  They practically have to steal cash to get fired.

Iowa goes from minimum of $87 to maximum of $591 per week on unemployment.  My niece was laid off when there could be no elective surgeries and did receive the extra unemployment.  She went back to work as soon as she was called back.  At first it was very part time, but it's back to normal now.

She was exposed twice to Covid in surgery.  One was from an emergency surgery and the test results were not back at the time of surgery.  The other one made her angry.  It was someone who didn't go home from the pre-procedure covid test and stay there until they had the procedure.  When questioned later, they admitted going grocery shopping, etc.  That exposed an entire surgical team to covid.

Thankfully she is now vaccinated.  She was also exposed by her mother and her husband and son.  She must have some antibodies in her body that protected her.

[minnesotapaintlady]

I'm influenced by anecdotal real world situations from my life, one example is my ex-SIL (she was married to Ex 2.0's brother and they were divorced a year after 2.0 and I were).  Her new boyfriend worked in production here and quit due to covid, which made him eligible for UE.  He had a stroke and a heart attack a couple years prior and isn't exactly the picture of health so I get that. He's been collecting UE since last March.  But, the kicker is.  Both him and ex-SIL have since emerged as die-hard MAGA, covid is a hoax people.  So leaving due to covid was just to get the UE.  Now today I saw on Facebook she had a post about a couple of her kids moving back home.  Someone asked what she meant by that (they're all minor children) and she said she's had covid the past two weeks so the kids moved in with their dad (which means they moved in with Ex 2.0 since their dad lives with him).  So, not working due to fear of getting covid, won't get vaccinated and now they both had it so he should just go back to work right?  I doubt that will happen.

[Opti]

Going back to the the OP, the answer is complex. Because people get jealous of special unemployment packages during an economic crisis the assumption is that it of course must because unemployment pays too much. However, I found a graph that proves on the whole it is actually the wrong answer. Labor participation has been dropping for at least two decades if not more. Turns out if you look at three economic downturns the labor force participation rate does not match or exceed the participation rate prior to the downturn, it resettles at a lower rate. 

The pandemic put in a sharp drop, but notice how the bounce back is about half the drop and unemployment has stabilized in the low 6 percent range since January 2021.


www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-labor-force-participation-rate.htm

I really wish I could post this as the graph it is, but it is html not a pic so its not working for me. So here's some high points. This link shows from Apr 2001 with an overall 66.9 percent labor force participation rate. Around the credit crisis we are down to 66% participation.
In February of 2020 we are at 63.4%. The lowest rate was 60.2% in Apr 2020. We are at 61.7% in April of 2021.

It is really worth checking out if you have the time and inclination. You can play with adding lines of men, women, black men etc. in the workforce.

[cyanne]

Here is an article that explains some of the reasons folks aren’t returning to their previous jobs. It looks like people are using the time and extra money to find better jobs.
link

[Opti]

Well that didn't work. Here's a link that is a bar graph for May 2020 until Apr 2021.
tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate#:~:text=The%20US%20unemployment%20rate%20is%20expected%20to%20fall,government%27s%20%241.9%20trillion%20relief%20package%20boosts%20domestic%20demand.

Below the graph it notes the highest recorded unemployment rate was 14.8% which I believe is from Apr 2020 from other reading and the lowest is 2.5% which I'll guess is from somewhere in the 1948 to 1959 time range.

Calendar GMT Reference Actual Previous Consensus TEForecast
2021-02-05 01:30 PM Jan 6.3% 6.7% 6.7% 6.7%
2021-03-05 01:30 PM Feb 6.2% 6.3% 6.3% 6.3%
2021-04-02 12:30 PM Mar 6% 6.2% 6% 6%
2021-05-07 12:30 PM Apr 6.1% 6% 5.8% 5.8%

I've highlighted two of the actual unemployment rates for 2021.

[Opti]

May 18, 2021 7:01:14 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 18, 2021 6:37:49 GMT -5 Opti said:

Yes unemployment was extended, but were the additional payments extended as well?  Its a knee jerk reaction to the employer seeking employee situation to always assume the reason must be we pay out too much in unemployment or federal assistance benefits are too high. You are out of the workforce by choice from the pandemic. Is there any amount of money employers can offer to entice you back?

Assuming is easy but it rarely gives an accurate look at a situation. You aren't staying away from the workforce because of pay. You are staying out due to your encounter with Covid. Why do you assume the majority are staying out because of unemployment and not because they choose not to go back? Did you know we dropped an entire year of life expectancy in this country because of Covid in 2020? I expect another drop in 2021 given the spike around the holidays would have put a significant amount of those 600K deaths in this calendar year, 

Lets face it, its a combination of things. That dishwasher making $97 a week wasn't self supporting anyway, so he does not need to return to work anymore than you do living off your rental income. You can't solve a problem unless you truly understand what the scope of the problem is. And I know assuming its just because of unemployment is wrong at best and highly inaccurate at worst. My library for example pays about $17 hr. for PT help. The catch is you can work a max of 19 hours a week. You can't live on that alone. The number of FT jobs drops every year and the number of PT ones go up as employers organize employment for their convenience, not for what the workforce prefers or needs. That alone causes employment gaps. I think its a likely guess that many jobs that were FT that were lost in the pandemic are not coming back whole right away. Libraries are still booting up around here as are more expected places like brick and mortar retailers and restaurants. 

As for why I quit working, it wasn’t due to Covid. At that point I had antibodies. My husband is an essential business so he was out in it every day. I realized that life was short and I had enough passive income so that I didn’t need to work. So while my decision was because of my experience, it wasn’t because of fear of Covid. I had that every day while my husband was out there in the trenches. He just didn’t whine and bitch about it like a lot of others.

I didn't mean Covid as in simply having the disease or fear thereof. What I meant is you made a choice to leave the workforce possibly permanently because of your experience during the Pandemic. Yet you assume an insignificant amount of people made the similar choice and the majority are more like the neighbor who wasn't even self supporting.

There are always people who abuse unusual situations whether it be unemployment, being rich or whatever. I prefer to look at scope instead of feelings. Your area has higher than the national average for unemployment, but I'm wondering who you think all these people really are. Nationally we are at 6% unemployment which is not an unusual floor.

[Opti]

May 18, 2021 16:18:45 GMT -5 cyanne said:

Here is an article that explains some of the reasons folks aren’t returning to their previous jobs. It looks like people are using the time and extra money to find better jobs.
link

I enjoyed reading it, but it feels like the usual human interest story that's written towards the end of an economic crisis as unemployment exceptions run out. There are always people who use the extra time unemployed to look for better jobs. In the article there's actually no proof of anyone using the extra money to find better jobs.

You have one guy on unemployment still looking. One person taking advantage of federal job training while unemployed (this is generally the only way one qualifies ). One person taking medical coding classes for a better job, whether she's paying for it or its subsidized partially by unemployment is unsaid. (shrinking field FWIW) And Weitzel who was on leave from a retail manager level FT position due to birth of a child and hopefully in the future will try for a new career PT because she couldn't afford to return PT for less hourly pay because childcare. Husband lost job, got new job same industry, pay of said jobs again unsaid and unknown.


She and her husband, who now works long hours at a new restaurant job, can’t afford child care.

Not picking on you, picking on the article who didn't choose people like my friend who caught Covid and was working FT and is on disability for his health. Or any of the other human stories of people doing worse.

[mamasita99]

I gotta admit, every time I open up YM and see the title of this thread, in my head I answer “I don’t want to work anymore”. Every time.

[minnesotapaintlady]

May 18, 2021 19:48:55 GMT -5 mamasita99 said:

I gotta admit, every time I open up YM and see the title of this thread, in my head I answer “I don’t want to work anymore”. Every time.

Ha!  You and me both! 

[Deleted]

May 18, 2021 19:51:54 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

May 18, 2021 19:48:55 GMT -5 mamasita99 said:

I gotta admit, every time I open up YM and see the title of this thread, in my head I answer “I don’t want to work anymore”. Every time.

Ha!  You and me both! 

That makes 3 of us. 

I’m tired of working. I can find a lot of other things to do to fill my time. Unfortunately for me, I haven’t figured out yet how I can just stop working and still be able to live a decent lifestyle. Sucks to be me.

[resolution]

I am having the opposite reaction. I will be eligible for retirement on August 1, and every time I see this thread I think I'm not ready to quit work, I don't have anything else lined up to do.

[teen persuasion]

I'm running thru my mental list of people I know who are/were unemployed at some time during Covid.

SIL - laid off before Covid, so unemployment ran out prior to any federal UI supplements.  Really hard to interview once Covid began.  Now working again from home, may relocate if/when return to office.
DD3 - left job in anticipation of relocating (and tired of making minimum while doing the job of a teacher), then DH (above) was laid off.  No UI.
Other SIL - grad student before Covid, infant in daycare, daycare unreliable due to sporadic Covid cases at site. Now anticipating military relocating as trailing spouse. No UI.
DS4 - student during Covid. Pushed out of dorms, so little job opportunities here at home, until now. No UI. Began working last month.
My brother - broke his hip; out on medical leave.
His wife - laid off from school during shutdown, got UI + supplements. Recently called back after schools reopened.
Music teacher in our district, and his wife - both on family medical leave due to health issues of dependents, one acute. Wife is in another state with ill child for long term treatment. He has to care for other child.
Musician - has been staying afloat on UI and supplements. As soon as he can return to performing, he will, but to date his field is just turned off. His biggest regular gigs, pre-Covid? Nursing homes, and casinos. Casinos are reopening for gambling with limited capacity, but not sure if the entertainment side is viable yet, locally. Nursing homes have been locked down for so long, and their finances stretched by Covid - don't think that will come roaring back for him soon. I know he's on Medicare, so 65+; is he really expected to go out and retrain for a job in some other field at his age? Food service? During his hiatus, he's been busy caring for his 94 yo mother, and working on a developing a plaque for a local historical site.
Self employed woman - in process of opening a restaurant when Covid hit. No PPP, etc, for her as she was not yet open. Trying to qualify for restaurant revitalization $$. She was trying to make the jump from food truck/fair food vendor (more the latter) to fixed location. During Covid food trucks were banned and there were zero events for food vendors. Again, her field was just turned off.

Look at how many people are not working for a time due to issues with childcare, eldercare, health issues, spouse relocations.

It's not just as simple as UI results in more net pay than minimum wage jobs (especially if they are *almost* but not quite full-time). Though, if UI is more lucrative than working (especially after working expenses like childcare) then wages are TOO LOW!

I think the thing I object to the most is this line of reasoning: if we need more workers, we need to FORCE them to work, by starving them out. No, no one should be forced into working. If you need more workers, you need to offer an employment package that ENTICES workers to work for you. That package is more than just wages; it is also benefits like health insurance (until we separate that out of employment permanently), retirement accounts and contributions, flexibility, hours, and working conditions. This is basic B-Mod, positive reinforcement is always better than negative reinforcement. The CEOs know that for upper level employees. They need to apply it top to bottom.

[NoNamePerson]

May 18, 2021 23:12:51 GMT -5 resolution said:

I am having the opposite reaction. I will be eligible for retirement on August 1, and every time I see this thread I think I'm not ready to quit work, I don't have anything else lined up to do.

I drug up at 60 and never looked back! I didn’t have anything “lined up” but that was the joy of being out of the work force grind on a daily basis! You might just keep on working if you are still looking for that structure! At least you’ll have your days lined up for you and get paid. Win Win for you 

[chiver78]

I think the thing I object to the most is this line of reasoning: if we need more workers, we need to FORCE them to work, by starving them out. No, no one should be forced into working. If you need more workers, you need to offer an employment package that ENTICES workers to work for you. That package is more than just wages; it is also benefits like health insurance (until we separate that out of employment permanently), retirement accounts and contributions, flexibility, hours, and working conditions. This is basic B-Mod, positive reinforcement is always better than negative reinforcement. The CEOs know that for upper level employees. They need to apply it top to bottom.

  quoting so I can like it again. 

[minnesotapaintlady]

I'm forced into working because I need to eat and my kids need to eat.  I'm not sure how I can opt out and get UE instead? 

[Lizard Queen]

Actually, I thought that was why most of us worked.

[teen persuasion]

I don't think it's all UI right now.

DS4 mentioned his new employer was looking for a driver, again. The guy they'd hired for it got fed up and never came back after lunch one day. No UI for him.

Local tv news last night had a story about a longtime hot dog stand that was closing up shop. Owner and his sister were swamped with customers and the other employees were no-shows. Apparently can't find more employees, can't handle the workload by themselves, so...closing. Not due to lack of business, but excess. Workers walking away - no UI for them.

[Ryan]

When I was 16, I got a job right away making $4.25/hour washing dishes at a local chain restaurant.  The job was fine, but there was a lot of shenanigans there (drinking, drug use, overall drama) that was not appropriate for a 16 year old.  I switched over at 17 to work for an Outback where I made $6/hour and I washed dishes.  The job totally sucked, there were no breaks, they gave you food but you had to eat in the little dishwashing area like an animal.  They kept me until midnight during the school week and, at the end of the night, gave beer to everyone in the restaurant (including me).

Both jobs kinda treated you like crap.  If you called in sick, they wanted you to find a replacement for you.  I got a 25 cent raise after working at the company for a year.  I found out later that someone that was like 15 years older than me started out at like $2.00/more an hour than me.  

I did like working, having my own money, etc.  However as a parent now, I'm not going to send my kids to work at some restaurant to get taken advantage of by some dipsh*t that just wants to exploit them and treat them like crap.

[bean29]

May 18, 2021 19:48:55 GMT -5 mamasita99 said:

I gotta admit, every time I open up YM and see the title of this thread, in my head I answer “I don’t want to work anymore”. Every time.

I don't either, but it is not a reality - I need to work until I am about 65, God willing I will try to make it to 68.  We could get by, but just getting by is not my goal.  57 right now, so 8 years to go.  I don't let myself go there, it would just make going to work every day that much harder.  

[Deleted]

May 19, 2021 8:28:33 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

I'm running thru my mental list of people I know who are/were unemployed at some time during Covid.

<snip>

Look at how many people are not working for a time due to issues with childcare, eldercare, health issues, spouse relocations.

I've seen multiple sources that state that a disproportionate number of women have left the workforce during COVID.  Schools dumped all the teaching back on the parents and if the woman had the lower income or was a single mother, well....guess who quit.

Hindsight is 20-20 but now I wonder if some elementary, middle and high schools couldn't have switched to classes in unused colleges and community colleges- larger classrooms and lecture halls, set up for PowerPoint and videos if needed, plenty of room for distancing.  It might have allowed a lot more parents to keep their jobs.

[TheOtherMe]

May 19, 2021 8:28:33 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

It's not just as simple as UI results in more net pay than minimum wage jobs (especially if they are *almost* but not quite full-time). Though, if UI is more lucrative than working (especially after working expenses like childcare) then wages are TOO LOW!

I think the thing I object to the most is this line of reasoning: if we need more workers, we need to FORCE them to work, by starving them out. No, no one should be forced into working. If you need more workers, you need to offer an employment package that ENTICES workers to work for you. That package is more than just wages; it is also benefits like health insurance (until we separate that out of employment permanently), retirement accounts and contributions, flexibility, hours, and working conditions. This is basic B-Mod, positive reinforcement is always better than negative reinforcement. The CEOs know that for upper level employees. They need to apply it top to bottom.

Day care here became totally unreliable to DN3's finance kept her son in day care in case they went back to school.  At that point, no one had any idea of what was happening.

[teen persuasion]

May 19, 2021 9:51:33 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

May 19, 2021 8:28:33 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

I'm running thru my mental list of people I know who are/were unemployed at some time during Covid.

<snip>

Look at how many people are not working for a time due to issues with childcare, eldercare, health issues, spouse relocations.

I've seen multiple sources that state that a disproportionate number of women have left the workforce during COVID.  Schools dumped all the teaching back on the parents and if the woman had the lower income or was a single mother, well....guess who quit.

Hindsight is 20-20 but now I wonder if some elementary, middle and high schools couldn't have switched to classes in unused colleges and community colleges- larger classrooms and lecture halls, set up for PowerPoint and videos if needed, plenty of room for distancing.  It might have allowed a lot more parents to keep their jobs.

Eh, there's more to the logistics.  Bussing was a big part.  Our district was hybrid (half the kids M/T, half Th/F) so only half the kids were on buses.  Then there's handling lunches, when each kid has to be 6' from everyone else because masks are down while eating.  Then chorus and band, where they had to be 12' apart because of forceful breathing!  And BOCES kids were still 5 days in person, and another subset opted for fully virtual, and at risk students are 5 days in person, and...

Of course, there's zero colleges near us, so no extra unused space to repurpose, anyways.

[Miss Tequila]

May 19, 2021 8:28:33 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

I'm running thru my mental list of people I know who are/were unemployed at some time during Covid.

SIL - laid off before Covid, so unemployment ran out prior to any federal UI supplements.  Really hard to interview once Covid began.  Now working again from home, may relocate if/when return to office.
DD3 - left job in anticipation of relocating (and tired of making minimum while doing the job of a teacher), then DH (above) was laid off.  No UI.
Other SIL - grad student before Covid, infant in daycare, daycare unreliable due to sporadic Covid cases at site. Now anticipating military relocating as trailing spouse. No UI.
DS4 - student during Covid. Pushed out of dorms, so little job opportunities here at home, until now. No UI. Began working last month.
My brother - broke his hip; out on medical leave.
His wife - laid off from school during shutdown, got UI + supplements. Recently called back after schools reopened.
Music teacher in our district, and his wife - both on family medical leave due to health issues of dependents, one acute. Wife is in another state with ill child for long term treatment. He has to care for other child.
Musician - has been staying afloat on UI and supplements. As soon as he can return to performing, he will, but to date his field is just turned off. His biggest regular gigs, pre-Covid? Nursing homes, and casinos. Casinos are reopening for gambling with limited capacity, but not sure if the entertainment side is viable yet, locally. Nursing homes have been locked down for so long, and their finances stretched by Covid - don't think that will come roaring back for him soon. I know he's on Medicare, so 65+; is he really expected to go out and retrain for a job in some other field at his age? Food service? During his hiatus, he's been busy caring for his 94 yo mother, and working on a developing a plaque for a local historical site.
Self employed woman - in process of opening a restaurant when Covid hit. No PPP, etc, for her as she was not yet open. Trying to qualify for restaurant revitalization $$. She was trying to make the jump from food truck/fair food vendor (more the latter) to fixed location. During Covid food trucks were banned and there were zero events for food vendors. Again, her field was just turned off.

Look at how many people are not working for a time due to issues with childcare, eldercare, health issues, spouse relocations.

It's not just as simple as UI results in more net pay than minimum wage jobs (especially if they are *almost* but not quite full-time). Though, if UI is more lucrative than working (especially after working expenses like childcare) then wages are TOO LOW!

I think the thing I object to the most is this line of reasoning: if we need more workers, we need to FORCE them to work, by starving them out. No, no one should be forced into working. If you need more workers, you need to offer an employment package that ENTICES workers to work for you. That package is more than just wages; it is also benefits like health insurance (until we separate that out of employment permanently), retirement accounts and contributions, flexibility, hours, and working conditions. This is basic B-Mod, positive reinforcement is always better than negative reinforcement. The CEOs know that for upper level employees. They need to apply it top to bottom.

The only reason I worked a job I hated was to put a roof over our heads and food on our table. In my younger days, I cleaned schools, sold plasma and other low paid jobs that I prefer to block out. I did those things because I have pride and my fall back answer is not to have the taxpayers support me. Same reason my grandma went to work in a factory when my grandfather died. I guess I just come from different stock.