Do People Just Not Want To Work Anymore?

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 7, 2021 21:11:45 GMT -5 nidena said:

Okay, slackers!  Time to "unretire"! 

Someone is going to pay through the nose if they want TD to unretire.  That’s our worry, that someone is going to make him an offer too hard to refuse.

[billisonboard]

Dec 10, 2021 15:16:14 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Dec 10, 2021 14:53:48 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The vast majority of human beings have neither innovated nor explored. They have engaged in manual labor. I wonder to what degree our drug issues relate to devaluation of that labor.

Devaluation of labor or our refusal to help those people transition?   We don't have horse drawn carriages anymore yet the human race moved on.  Computers have taken over but they still have to be run by people.   This idea that we can't replace fields and that the workers in those fields can't possibly be expected to learn something new is what got us where we are right now.  Guess what the replacement has been happening regardless and now we have entire swarths of people left unprepared for it.

Can everyone be Bill Gates no?  But I imagine you can retrain someone who is willing to learn to work in solar energy as opposed to coal.     We'd have to make an actual investment in our communities, people and education as opposed to continuing the status quo based on conditioned fear that lifting someone else up means I get shoved down.

I offered my thought based on my beliefs in regards to the very basic nature v nurture argument. Is it a lack of education (nurturing) which makes one not a successful candidate for a career sitting in front of computer all day or is it something in their nature that makes them desire to physically make something with their hands? I lean towards the idea that nature does play an important role and that modern life does not fit a significant percentage of the human population well.

I think it would be possible to invest resources in a way that we could meet people where they are instead of attempting to move them where "we" want them to be.

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 11, 2021 9:16:16 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 10, 2021 15:16:14 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Devaluation of labor or our refusal to help those people transition?   We don't have horse drawn carriages anymore yet the human race moved on.  Computers have taken over but they still have to be run by people.   This idea that we can't replace fields and that the workers in those fields can't possibly be expected to learn something new is what got us where we are right now.  Guess what the replacement has been happening regardless and now we have entire swarths of people left unprepared for it.

Can everyone be Bill Gates no?  But I imagine you can retrain someone who is willing to learn to work in solar energy as opposed to coal.     We'd have to make an actual investment in our communities, people and education as opposed to continuing the status quo based on conditioned fear that lifting someone else up means I get shoved down.

I offered my thought based on my beliefs in regards to the very basic nature v nurture argument. Is it a lack of education (nurturing) which makes one not a successful candidate for a career sitting in front of computer all day or is it something in their nature that makes them desire to physically make something with their hands? I lean towards the idea that nature does play an important role and that modern life does not fit a significant percentage of the human population well.

I think it would be possible to invest resources in a way that we could meet people where they are instead of attempting to move them where "we" want them to be.

I agree. There are people, who by personality, genetics, or whatever, are not cut out for the sedentary jobs that are predominate today. I think that removing the trade classes from high school has been detrimental to a percentage of the population. Apprenticeships might be a way to reverse that. Despite technology, we will need to have people do things that robots can’t. We should encourage those with the aptitude to pursue those careers

[Lizard Queen]

Dec 10, 2021 15:18:55 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Dec 7, 2021 21:11:45 GMT -5 nidena said:

Okay, slackers!  Time to "unretire"! 

Someone is going to pay through the nose if they want TD to unretire.  That’s our worry, that someone is going to make him an offer too hard to refuse.

There are worse problems to have. 

[Lizard Queen]

Dec 11, 2021 9:16:16 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 10, 2021 15:16:14 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Devaluation of labor or our refusal to help those people transition?   We don't have horse drawn carriages anymore yet the human race moved on.  Computers have taken over but they still have to be run by people.   This idea that we can't replace fields and that the workers in those fields can't possibly be expected to learn something new is what got us where we are right now.  Guess what the replacement has been happening regardless and now we have entire swarths of people left unprepared for it.

Can everyone be Bill Gates no?  But I imagine you can retrain someone who is willing to learn to work in solar energy as opposed to coal.     We'd have to make an actual investment in our communities, people and education as opposed to continuing the status quo based on conditioned fear that lifting someone else up means I get shoved down.

I offered my thought based on my beliefs in regards to the very basic nature v nurture argument. Is it a lack of education (nurturing) which makes one not a successful candidate for a career sitting in front of computer all day or is it something in their nature that makes them desire to physically make something with their hands? I lean towards the idea that nature does play an important role and that modern life does not fit a significant percentage of the human population well.

I think it would be possible to invest resources in a way that we could meet people where they are instead of attempting to move them where "we" want them to be.

I work in front of a computer,  but there is something more satisfying to me about making something with your hands. It just gets rough on your body to do too much of that.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 11, 2021 9:42:08 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Dec 10, 2021 15:18:55 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Someone is going to pay through the nose if they want TD to unretire.  That’s our worry, that someone is going to make him an offer too hard to refuse.

There are worse problems to have. 

Very true.  But this article implies that those who have retired are going to unretire isn’t that’s easy.   Many of those who retired either do not need to work, do not want to work anymore in their profession or physically can’t do the sorts of jobs that are available.  

The repercussions of covid moved up our retirement time scale by about a year (and I know we are not the only ones). Once you wrap your brain around being retired, just saying unretire isn’t quite as easy as they imply.

[billisonboard]

Dec 11, 2021 9:23:02 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Dec 11, 2021 9:16:16 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I offered my thought based on my beliefs in regards to the very basic nature v nurture argument. Is it a lack of education (nurturing) which makes one not a successful candidate for a career sitting in front of computer all day or is it something in their nature that makes them desire to physically make something with their hands? I lean towards the idea that nature does play an important role and that modern life does not fit a significant percentage of the human population well.

I think it would be possible to invest resources in a way that we could meet people where they are instead of attempting to move them where "we" want them to be.

I agree. There are people, who by personality, genetics, or whatever, are not cut out for the sedentary jobs that are predominate today. I think that removing the trade classes from high school has been detrimental to a percentage of the population. Apprenticeships might be a way to reverse that. Despite technology, we will need to have people do things that robots can’t. We should encourage those with the aptitude to pursue those careers

Had a neighbor who was a mill wright. The saw mill shut down so he entered a retraining program. Got his BA in land use planning and landed a paperwork job with the county. A year later the mill re-opened and he went back to doing what he felt he was born to do.

[Deleted]

Dec 11, 2021 9:44:30 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Dec 11, 2021 9:16:16 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I offered my thought based on my beliefs in regards to the very basic nature v nurture argument. Is it a lack of education (nurturing) which makes one not a successful candidate for a career sitting in front of computer all day or is it something in their nature that makes them desire to physically make something with their hands? I lean towards the idea that nature does play an important role and that modern life does not fit a significant percentage of the human population well.

I think it would be possible to invest resources in a way that we could meet people where they are instead of attempting to move them where "we" want them to be.

I work in front of a computer,  but there is something more satisfying to me about making something with your hands. It just gets rough on your body to do too much of that.

Mister is a manager at his job. Last week, they received some huge part to replace something on their HVAC system. He said it was about as big as our garage at went on and on about how he wished he could “play with it”.

He enjoys working with his hands and at times like that, when they get something new and shiny that has to be installed, he’d rather be turning wrenches than sitting at his desk. But the rules don’t allow him to “help” his guys.

[Deleted]

Did any of you read about Redditors shutting down Kellogg’s online job application site? Negotiations fell through between Kellogg and the striking workers, so Kellogg’s started accepting applications to replace the workers.

Redditors submitted thousands of false applications and the website crashed, or something like that.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Dec 11, 2021 9:44:30 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Dec 11, 2021 9:16:16 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I offered my thought based on my beliefs in regards to the very basic nature v nurture argument. Is it a lack of education (nurturing) which makes one not a successful candidate for a career sitting in front of computer all day or is it something in their nature that makes them desire to physically make something with their hands? I lean towards the idea that nature does play an important role and that modern life does not fit a significant percentage of the human population well.

I think it would be possible to invest resources in a way that we could meet people where they are instead of attempting to move them where "we" want them to be.

I work in front of a computer,  but there is something more satisfying to me about making something with your hands. It just gets rough on your body to do too much of that.

That's why I want to go back to production.  Sitting in front of a computer sucks the life out of me and all my work seems so pointless and neverending. So much more satisfying to say, "Ok, we need X number of these by the end of the day...GO!"  Electronics production is not hard on the body though.  Lots of people in their 70's out on the floor where I work.  

The problem is the hours are not flexible at all.  The life sucking office job is much better for single parenting. 

[Lizard Queen]

Dec 11, 2021 11:34:50 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Did any of you read about Redditors shutting down Kellogg’s online job application site? Negotiations fell through between Kellogg and the striking workers, so Kellogg’s started accepting applications to replace the workers.

Redditors submitted thousands of false applications and the website crashed, or something like that.

Yeah, my husband likes to read reddit. They created a bot to submit applications.  I don't think it was necessary because it's already hard to find workers for those types of jobs right now.

[plugginaway22]

My DH has opted to retire in the beginning of 2022. He will be 62 years old. Since his notice was given, the owners are practically begging him to stay. They cannot find hard working people with experience. He does not hate the job but the daily commute is what killed it for him. Basically 45 minutes each way in very dangerous traffic. He is paid very well for what he does but it's not about the money anymore. Guess we are part of the 'great resignation' since I was also done this year at age 61.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Sunday, don't want to go back to work tomorrow, number crunching.      I spent the afternoon evaluating marketplace health insurance.  I know things could always change, but it's nice to know that at least right now there are several good and affordable options out there (at least in my state, I know not all are the same). 

So...it's all about meeting that FI number.  

[crazycat]

Dec 11, 2021 12:51:15 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Dec 11, 2021 11:34:50 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Did any of you read about Redditors shutting down Kellogg’s online job application site? Negotiations fell through between Kellogg and the striking workers, so Kellogg’s started accepting applications to replace the workers.

Redditors submitted thousands of false applications and the website crashed, or something like that.

Yeah, my husband likes to read reddit. They created a bot to submit applications.  I don't think it was necessary because it's already hard to find workers for those types of jobs right now.

They did that to try to prevent Kellogg replacing workers with scabs . 

Union Strong 💪🏽

[Lizard Queen]

Dec 13, 2021 1:52:48 GMT -5 crazycat said:

Dec 11, 2021 12:51:15 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Yeah, my husband likes to read reddit. They created a bot to submit applications.  I don't think it was necessary because it's already hard to find workers for those types of jobs right now.

They did that to try to prevent Kellogg replacing workers with scabs . 

Union Strong 💪🏽

I know. What I'm saying is Kellogg's likely already would have found finding workers challenging since under normal circumstances it's hard to fill those types of positions anyway. Now they can blame it on those "pesky redditors" instead of on themselves.

[nidena]

After 16 months at a job that I was great at but didn't love doing, I submitted a "Dear boss" letter this a.m., effective immediately.

[laterbloomer]

Jan 4, 2022 12:55:56 GMT -5 nidena said:

After 16 months at a job that I was great at but didn't love doing, I submitted a "Dear boss" letter this a.m., effective immediately.

Congratulations? Are you retiring or job hunting?

[nidena]

Jan 4, 2022 12:59:18 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Jan 4, 2022 12:55:56 GMT -5 nidena said:

After 16 months at a job that I was great at but didn't love doing, I submitted a "Dear boss" letter this a.m., effective immediately.

Congratulations? Are you retiring or job hunting?

I put in an application at Bath & Body Works.  I loved working in the beauty dept at Victoria's Secret and this would be a whole store of lotions and potions, not just one section.  It won't pay the same but I'd rather do something fun, making less, than something that has me stuck in a cubicle and staring at a computer screen, making more.

[plugginaway22]

Any reason that you didn't give 2 weeks notice? I was always willing to write great letters of recommendation for excellent staff who did follow that guideline.

[nidena]

Jan 4, 2022 13:20:37 GMT -5 plugginaway22 said:

Any reason that you didn't give 2 weeks notice? I was always willing to write great letters of recommendation for excellent staff who did follow that guideline.

Because I chose not to, is the long and short of it.

[andi9899]

Jan 4, 2022 13:11:02 GMT -5 nidena said:

Jan 4, 2022 12:59:18 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Congratulations? Are you retiring or job hunting?

I put in an application at Bath & Body Works.  I loved working in the beauty dept at Victoria's Secret and this would be a whole store of lotions and potions, not just one section.  It won't pay the same but I'd rather do something fun, making less, than something that has me stuck in a cubicle and staring at a computer screen, making more.

I'd go broke if I worked at that store. I'm only allowed to go twice a year.

[formerroomate99]

According to Mike Rowe, the dirty jobs guy, there’s 10 million well-paying jobs out there that don’t require a four year degree, that aren’t being filled because our K through 12 system has spent the last 40 years pushing college and looking down on the trades. That problem is going to get exponentially worse when the baby boomers retire.

I can kind of see why the high schools with this route. A lot of the college prep classes don’t require much in the way of equipment and are taught by people who really can’t get a job any place else. There never has been a red hot job market for poets or historians Meanwhile, the trades classes are taught by people who have marketable skills, and they usually require a lot of very expensive equipment. And things like test scores and college admissions are very much driven by the college prep crowd.

[tskeeter]

Jan 4, 2022 16:29:58 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

According to Mike Rowe, the dirty jobs guy, there’s 10 million well-paying jobs out there that don’t require a four year degree, that aren’t being filled because our K through 12 system has spent the last 40 years pushing college and looking down on the trades. That problem is going to get exponentially worse when the baby boomers retire.

I can kind of see why the high schools with this route. A lot of the college prep classes don’t require much in the way of equipment and are taught by people who really can’t get a job any place else. There never has been a red hot job market for poets or historians Meanwhile, the trades classes are taught by people who have marketable skills, and they usually require a lot of very expensive equipment. And things like test scores and college admissions are very much driven by the college prep crowd.

And it’s unlikely that a kid will cut off a finger or get crushed under a car while in a European History or physics class.

[TheOtherMe]

Open up my online banking account.  It's a credit union.  Two branches are closed due to staffing shortages.  Not known when they will re-open.  

It's been a very long time since I have been inside any credit union office.  I do everything I can online.  I generally go to the drive thru in the next town where you talk to a teller who is at a different location.

One of the branches will have the drive thru open.  I imagine it works with a teller in a different location.  The other one is in a grocery store so it doesn't have a drive thru.

[giramomma]

Jan 4, 2022 16:29:58 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

According to Mike Rowe, the dirty jobs guy, there’s 10 million well-paying jobs out there that don’t require a four year degree, that aren’t being filled because our K through 12 system has spent the last 40 years pushing college and looking down on the trades. That problem is going to get exponentially worse when the baby boomers retire.

I can kind of see why the high schools with this route. A lot of the college prep classes don’t require much in the way of equipment and are taught by people who really can’t get a job any place else. There never has been a red hot job market for poets or historians Meanwhile, the trades classes are taught by people who have marketable skills, and they usually require a lot of very expensive equipment. And things like test scores and college admissions are very much driven by the college prep crowd.

I don't doubt that we need more folks in the trades.

Do you know how most teachers go through teaching.

They get a teaching degree. Not a history degree and then decide to go teach. I've worked with teachers for about 20 years. My oldest girl is likely going to go to college and major in education. I have known exactly 2 teachers that got their teaching credentials after specializing in the arts. And frankly, they only got the credentials because the school district said you had to.

How popular do you think I'd be if I went into my kids' general hs classes and said "Huh, english teacher. Sux that you couldn't cut it being a poet." Huh math teacher. Sux that you were't good enough to cut it at Tesla." and on and on it goes.

And, I'm sorry, but marketable skills like strong communication and critical thinking skills can be found in all types, not just in the trades.

[pulmonarymd]

The reason all the "shop: classes have been cut from high school has everything to do with money. Budgets get voted down and have to be cut, so those classes were cut, as the idea was that many of these fields will have job numbers continue to decrease. Any other explanation is nonsense.

Nothing is stopping employers from providing apprenticeships if they need employees. They can pay for the training instead of outsourcing it to high schools and the taxpayer. If they are so short of employees, they can use this as an incentive to attract prospective employees. Isn't that how the free market works

[Lizard Queen]

I could have sworn all the teachers I know majored in something else and minored in education.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jan 5, 2022 13:00:56 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

The reason all the "shop: classes have been cut from high school has everything to do with money. Budgets get voted down and have to be cut, so those classes were cut, as the idea was that many of these fields will have job numbers continue to decrease. Any other explanation is nonsense.

Nothing is stopping employers from providing apprenticeships if they need employees. They can pay for the training instead of outsourcing it to high schools and the taxpayer. If they are so short of employees, they can use this as an incentive to attract prospective employees. Isn't that how the free market works

DH said that's how it used to work in the field he was in years ago but it became cheaper and more profit for corporations to outsource it.  Now there is nobody left because the master's are all DH's age and older.  His company is desperate for press operators and has started advertising on the job training as part of getting hired.

Phlebotomy used to be largely in house training but when talking to the manager of the department it was the same thing, they sourced it out.   I've actually read several articles lately that said with the shortage of new medical personnel and the burn out going on in current personnel they are likely going to have to rethink farming a lot of that out and requiring things like a BSN just to start and instead go back to apprenticeships and accelerated degree programs where you get credit for work you've already done in the field.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jan 5, 2022 13:19:42 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

I could have sworn all the teachers I know majored in something else and minored in education.

All the science teachers I know were once in a research lab.  One friend wen5 to an area where the closest research lab was 50 miles away.  She started teaching, and never looked back (until she retired). 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jan 5, 2022 13:27:22 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jan 5, 2022 13:00:56 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

The reason all the "shop: classes have been cut from high school has everything to do with money. Budgets get voted down and have to be cut, so those classes were cut, as the idea was that many of these fields will have job numbers continue to decrease. Any other explanation is nonsense.

Nothing is stopping employers from providing apprenticeships if they need employees. They can pay for the training instead of outsourcing it to high schools and the taxpayer. If they are so short of employees, they can use this as an incentive to attract prospective employees. Isn't that how the free market works

DH said that's how it used to work in the field he was in years ago but it became cheaper and more profit for corporations to outsource it.  Now there is nobody left because the master's are all DH's age and older.  His company is desperate for press operators and has started advertising on the job training as part of getting hired.

Phlebotomy used to be largely in house training but when talking to the manager of the department it was the same thing, they sourced it out.   I've actually read several articles lately that said with the shortage of new medical personnel and the burn out going on in current personnel they are likely going to have to rethink farming a lot of that out and requiring things like a BSN just to start and instead go back to apprenticeships and accelerated degree programs where you get credit for work you've already done in the field.

This!^. I have 2 cousins who never went to college.  Both have done apprenticeships and are doing quite well today.  Their dad did very well as a car mechanic owning his own garage.  He desperately tried to sell it, along with his tools to train some kids to work there…..but didn’t get any bites.  He later just retired.