Do People Just Not Want To Work Anymore?

[andi9899]

Dec 5, 2021 18:42:12 GMT -5 nidena said:

Whole Life insurance can also, in time, provide an opportunity to take out a loan with the only requirement being filling out the request form.  You're not required to pay it back.  The only real penalty is that the face value is reduced by the amount of the loan if it isn't paid back before the Insured dies.

You'd want to pay it back. Otherwise you run the risk of the interest accumulating so that it's equal to the cash value and your policy becomes overloaned. At that point it would cancel and then you have nothing.

[andi9899]

Dec 5, 2021 19:10:54 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Dec 5, 2021 18:34:40 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Term is a good option to meet a big need with a little bit of money. At some point the term runs out. If you're ineligible or have health issues you could either have a much higher premium for the next term you write or not be able to get another term. Why not lock in a fixed rate for the life of the insured? Term policies only run to age 85 also, lots of people live to be older than 85.

But, not everyone needs life insurance.  Young people with no kids probably don't and neither do a lot of older established folks with lots of assets.  I don't need life insurance.  If I got hit by a bus tomorrow my kids would be set.  It's the 20-30 years in between there that the term fills the void.  Plus the amount of whole life you get might seem like a lot when the kid is 3, but at the rate inflation has been going the past 10 years, a 100K policy will only have the spending power of 40K when they're 33.  My 74 year old dad has a policy his parents bought him when he was little.  It's $500 and the insurance company doesn't even exist anymore.  If they would have just stuck $100 in GE stock for his high school graduation that would be worth over a million! 

As a disclaimer I do still have a term policy that I keep paying on because it's so cheap.  $300/year for 400K of coverage.  My work also provides something like 2X my annual income for free, so another 100K there.  

That's great for you. Again I'm reminding you that the rest of us are not you and there is a whole other world out there of different people than you.

[nidena]

Dec 5, 2021 19:29:45 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Dec 5, 2021 18:42:12 GMT -5 nidena said:

Whole Life insurance can also, in time, provide an opportunity to take out a loan with the only requirement being filling out the request form.  You're not required to pay it back.  The only real penalty is that the face value is reduced by the amount of the loan if it isn't paid back before the Insured dies.

You'd want to pay it back. Otherwise you run the risk of the interest accumulating so that it's equal to the cash value and your policy becomes overloaned. At that point it would cancel and then you have nothing.

Well, true but it's not like anything goes to collections for lack of payment.  That was my point.

On that same note, people can pay back JUST the interest and my first statement stands.

[andi9899]

Dec 5, 2021 19:44:02 GMT -5 nidena said:

Dec 5, 2021 19:29:45 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

You'd want to pay it back. Otherwise you run the risk of the interest accumulating so that it's equal to the cash value and your policy becomes overloaned. At that point it would cancel and then you have nothing.

Well, true but it's not like anything goes to collections for lack of payment.  That was my point.

On that same note, people can pay back JUST the interest and my first statement stands.

This is true.

[TheOtherMe]

Dec 5, 2021 17:27:49 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Dec 5, 2021 9:31:16 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

My parents bought one of those policies when I was a kid.  They turned it over to me when I was a kid and I kept paying in.

I finally realized I had paid in more than the value of the policy so I cashed it in.

You probably had a universal life then. Whole life premium is guaranteed and will never be more than the death benefit. If you don't fund your universal life right, you can run into problems like that.

I obviously have no idea of what they bought.  I know I was supposed to use it for my wedding.  I have yet to have a wedding.  

They got some on dad.  None on mom.  Dad's paid out $5000 at age 80.  I know they paid in more than $5000.  

My sister doesn't remember it so they probably did pull it out to pay for her wedding.

[TheOtherMe]

I have no life insurance.  I have a paid in full cremation package.  

My mom had no life insurance.

My dad's only life insurance was through his job.  

[minnesotapaintlady]

Dec 5, 2021 19:33:52 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Dec 5, 2021 19:10:54 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

But, not everyone needs life insurance.  Young people with no kids probably don't and neither do a lot of older established folks with lots of assets.  I don't need life insurance.  If I got hit by a bus tomorrow my kids would be set.  It's the 20-30 years in between there that the term fills the void.  Plus the amount of whole life you get might seem like a lot when the kid is 3, but at the rate inflation has been going the past 10 years, a 100K policy will only have the spending power of 40K when they're 33.  My 74 year old dad has a policy his parents bought him when he was little.  It's $500 and the insurance company doesn't even exist anymore.  If they would have just stuck $100 in GE stock for his high school graduation that would be worth over a million! 

As a disclaimer I do still have a term policy that I keep paying on because it's so cheap.  $300/year for 400K of coverage.  My work also provides something like 2X my annual income for free, so another 100K there.  

That's great for you. Again I'm reminding you that the rest of us are not you and there is a whole other world out there of different people than you.

I understand that (although I don't think my situation is all that special either).

I'm not looking for affirmation of my own decisions.  Just providing counterpoints and alternatives to anyone reading this that might be weighing the decision themselves.

[nidena]

Well, this would suck: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees over Zoom

[Lizard Queen]

Dec 6, 2021 8:36:55 GMT -5 nidena said:

Well, this would suck: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees over Zoom

Wow, what a POS.

[Deleted]

Dec 5, 2021 18:28:40 GMT -5 nidena said:

Dec 5, 2021 18:09:13 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

It just doesn't make sense to me to pay more for life insurance so a portion of it can go into an investment that I wouldn't buy normally due to the high fees.  Seems more logical to just buy cheap term and invest on my own.  My son had $200/month put away from birth to age 18 and then stopped.  It was 43K invested and it's worth over 100K now.  Money he can use for school and/or a house down payment. 

In many cases, it's another tool in the arsenal of tax avoidance for the wealthy.

My brother is a wealthy tax CPA and was enamored of the tax-free buildup in value and bought a large annuity.  He later became quite disenchanted with it- combination of too many expense charges, limits on the investment return (both upside and downside) and the high costs of getting out of it.  

I agree with mpl's other post on life insurance- at my last job I had term insurance that was something like 5 X my salary and I didn't need it.  DS was launched and there were enough assets that DH, who was 75 at the time, would have been fine.  It wasn't all "free", either- the IRS taxed the "imputed value" of premiums on any employer-provided life insurance over $50,000 so it was costing me money every month.  I tried to drop the coverage but was told I'd have to wait till the first of the next year.  I quit before that.

To andi's point- yes, each situation is different.  I get a lot of retirement-related posts on FB about SS, Medicare, etc. and so many of the comments are really sad posts from people trying to live on SS and barely scraping by, going without needed dental care, struggling to meet basic expenses...mostly widows since women tend to live longer.  Losing 1/3 of SS (going from 150% of the primary insurance for the couple to 100% for Survivor) I wish more people who needed life insurance to protect their loved ones would buy it instead of leaving them with nothing.

ETA:  I just listened to a podcast by some employee benefits consultants talking about LSAs (Lifestyle Spending Accounts).  The employer gives you $X and it can be spent for specific purposes to improve your life- date night out, a gym membership, music lessons...taxable, of course.  (The focus of the podcast was NOT mixing those types of benefits with the kinds covered in an HSA.)

The cynical part of me thinks this is another way to provide a benefit that will attract new employees now but unlike salary, can be decreased or discontinued when the employer feels like it.

[thyme4change]

My term insurance will run out in 4 years. I wasn't planning on renewing. If something happens to me, my husband will just have to make it on the assets I have left him. If something happens to both of us, my kids will be up to their eyeballs in hookers and blow.

[TheOtherMe]

I have no children.  Whatever cats I have when I die, can't inherit from me.  

I have no life insurance.  I get all kinds of mail trying to sell me insurance to cover my last costs.     At this point I have enough income and the house is far from upside down.  

My niece and nephews will have to sell the house.  There will be a profit from the sale of the house.

My income is a straight pension from days gone by.  Now I have my $225 of social security that I thought I would never receive.  At least it covers my Medicare premiums.

My only debt besides my mortgage is whatever I charge on credit cards that money and pay it off every month.  

I'm not worrying about who gets a certain amount of my money when I'm gone.

[nidena]

Okay, slackers!  Time to "unretire"! 

[nidena]

Dec 6, 2021 8:36:55 GMT -5 nidena said:

Well, this would suck: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees over Zoom

And now the CEO is "sorry".

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Dec 8, 2021 20:11:11 GMT -5 nidena said:

Dec 6, 2021 8:36:55 GMT -5 nidena said:

Well, this would suck: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees over Zoom

And now the CEO is "sorry".

So, he's okay with the lay-offs. It was the 900-member Zoom meeting he's apologizing for. 

That does make sense. He didn't have to deliver the news that way. I understand that he was trying to take on the responsibility of the lay-offs instead of having the managers get the blame. 

[billisonboard]

Dec 8, 2021 21:23:48 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Dec 8, 2021 20:11:11 GMT -5 nidena said:

And now the CEO is "sorry".

So, he's okay with the lay-offs. It was the 900-member Zoom meeting he's apologizing for. 

That does make sense. He didn't have to deliver the news that way. I understand that he was trying to take on the responsibility of the lay-offs instead of having the managers get the blame. 

Sounds like he did have to deliver the news that way. Assholes have to be assholes.

[thyme4change]

Dec 8, 2021 20:11:11 GMT -5 nidena said:

Dec 6, 2021 8:36:55 GMT -5 nidena said:

Well, this would suck: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees over Zoom

And now the CEO is "sorry".

Seems like classic sorry that he was caught and exposed.

[NastyWoman]

Dec 7, 2021 21:11:45 GMT -5 nidena said:

Okay, slackers!  Time to "unretire"!

WOW, hold on for a moment there. I have been retired all of three business days and you want me to go back to work? NUHUH, not going to happen. I am not even sure this is not vacation yet

[Opti]

Check out this ad for a service job.

www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/a-california-cafe-that-posted-a-sign-looking-for-staff-who-don-t-cry-are-never-late-and-have-no-excuses-admits-the-job-advert-was-too-harsh/ar-AARDHjr?ocid=msedgntp

The job advert said it was searching for an employee that was "actually available, has an open schedule, doesn't cry, is never late, has no excuses, works hard, has no bullsh*t, smiles no matter what," per the Twitter picture.



Kreation took the poster down one day after the tweet was posted, according to the Twitter user who shared the picture.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Dec 9, 2021 15:22:45 GMT -5 Opti said:

Check out this ad for a service job.

www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/a-california-cafe-that-posted-a-sign-looking-for-staff-who-don-t-cry-are-never-late-and-have-no-excuses-admits-the-job-advert-was-too-harsh/ar-AARDHjr?ocid=msedgntp

The job advert said it was searching for an employee that was "actually available, has an open schedule, doesn't cry, is never late, has no excuses, works hard, has no bullsh*t, smiles no matter what," per the Twitter picture.



Kreation took the poster down one day after the tweet was posted, according to the Twitter user who shared the picture.

I'd like to meet the person who has worked in customer service and never cried.  Probably has at least one body in the basement.

[Deleted]

Dec 9, 2021 15:22:45 GMT -5 Opti said:

Check out this ad for a service job.

www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/a-california-cafe-that-posted-a-sign-looking-for-staff-who-don-t-cry-are-never-late-and-have-no-excuses-admits-the-job-advert-was-too-harsh/ar-AARDHjr?ocid=msedgntp

The job advert said it was searching for an employee that was "actually available, has an open schedule, doesn't cry, is never late, has no excuses, works hard, has no bullsh*t, smiles no matter what," per the Twitter picture.



Kreation took the poster down one day after the tweet was posted, according to the Twitter user who shared the picture.

Sounds like they need to look into robots instead of hiring human beings. I understand wanting to hire “good” employees, but that description would be a major turnoff to me if I was looking for a job. Shit happens to even the best employees, they have personal problems, get sick and do everything else human beings do.

[giramomma]

I think it depends on the company. It's hard to know the company culture from a tweet.

I ordered DS some sun glasses from a pretty cheeky small company. I requested that the order be shipped in a non-descript box since it's is Santa gift.

The return address is " Oakely, Doakley Lube Emporium." Clearly, some individual at this business thought such a return address was absolutely hilarious. Had I not gotten a glimpse of the business culture, frankly, I would have been  offended.

[Deleted]

Dec 9, 2021 17:58:59 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Sounds like they need to look into robots instead of hiring human beings. I understand wanting to hire “good” employees, but that description would be a major turnoff to me if I was looking for a job. Shit happens to even the best employees, they have personal problems, get sick and do everything else human beings do.

Well, that's pretty much what they're doing: ordering kiosks and pre-ordering on-line at fast food places, tablet computers on the tables at Chili's for ordering and paying, self-checkouts and scan-and-go at supermarkets.

[thyme4change]

They have been replacing workers with robots and technology since before the cotton gin. It will continue. As humans, we shouldn't fight it, but see that it could give us all the opportunity to be more human. To work less and care for people more. Unfortunately, we only care that it makes a minority of the people very wealthy.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Dec 10, 2021 9:28:50 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

They have been replacing workers with robots and technology since before the cotton gin. It will continue. As humans, we shouldn't fight it, but see that it could give us all the opportunity to be more human. To work less and care for people more. Unfortunately, we only care that it makes a minority of the people very wealthy.

 I was reading Michio Kaku (sp?) and his book was addressing that we continue to move farther and farther away from  being a manual work based society into a knowledge based one.  This is actually a GOOD thing because like you said it should free us up to be more human and do what humans have done since we first appeared, innovate and explore.

Several scientific writers have echoed the same thing.  The evolution of society is going to keep going whether we want it to or not.  We could either adapt and lift people up with us or we could continue to cling to the "good old days" and just let those people rot and eventually drag down the human race itself.

Excellent example is coal.  Coal WILL eventually go away it is not a finite resource and is becoming ever more expensive to get what is left.  We COULD be investing in clean energy and other technologies to lift the areas that depend on coal of out of their extreme poverty.  Not only would that be a benefit but the pollution and health issues cause by coal mining would decrease lowering costs there too.  There is actually very little argument for keeping coal outside of the argument that i makes a handful of people extremely rich.

Nope we're going to keep coal till the bitter end because 'MERICA and it makes a great political fodder on both ends of the aisle.

We seemed to have achieved the Industrial Revolution and stopped.  As long as Jeff Bezos can launch himself into space who cares about the rest of the world.

[andi9899]

Dec 8, 2021 20:11:11 GMT -5 nidena said:

Dec 6, 2021 8:36:55 GMT -5 nidena said:

Well, this would suck: Better.com CEO fires 900 employees over Zoom

And now the CEO is "sorry".

I'd be looking for another job anyway if I managed to escape the layoff. Any company that is ok with laying off hundreds of people right before Christmas is not one I would want to work for.

[susana1954]

Dec 10, 2021 12:05:59 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Dec 8, 2021 20:11:11 GMT -5 nidena said:

And now the CEO is "sorry".

I'd be looking for another job anyway if I managed to escape the layoff. Any company that is ok with laying off hundreds of people right before Christmas is not one I would want to work for.

I guess.  Back in the early 1990s the only Macy's in Alabama (which is no longer true) decided to close the store.  They announced it in early January.

Early January is a tough time to try to find a job in retail.  Shoppers tighten their spending as they deal with holiday bills.  Stores are shedding most of the temporary workers while trying to place a few of the really good ones.  Hours are cut, etc.

I think it is almost worse to lay people off right after Christmas than it is before.  Before Christmas, you can return a few of the more expensive gifts.  You can moderate your spending in some ways.  If you get cash presents, you can hoard it.

Of course, both are what EFs are for, but that is in a more perfect YM world.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Dec 10, 2021 12:05:59 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Dec 8, 2021 20:11:11 GMT -5 nidena said:

And now the CEO is "sorry".

I'd be looking for another job anyway if I managed to escape the layoff. Any company that is ok with laying off hundreds of people right before Christmas is not one I would want to work for.

They fire you because of how budgets work.  If they fire you before Christmas your overhead costs don't factor into next year's budget.

It's an asshole move on a personal level but on a purely business level it's smart.

[billisonboard]

 I was reading Michio Kaku (sp?) and his book was addressing that we continue to move farther and farther away from  being a manual work based society into a knowledge based one.  This is actually a GOOD thing because like you said it should free us up to be more human and do what humans have done since we first appeared, innovate and explore.

...

The vast majority of human beings have neither innovated nor explored. They have engaged in manual labor. I wonder to what degree our drug issues relate to devaluation of that labor.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Dec 10, 2021 14:53:48 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

 I was reading Michio Kaku (sp?) and his book was addressing that we continue to move farther and farther away from  being a manual work based society into a knowledge based one.  This is actually a GOOD thing because like you said it should free us up to be more human and do what humans have done since we first appeared, innovate and explore.

...

The vast majority of human beings have neither innovated nor explored. They have engaged in manual labor. I wonder to what degree our drug issues relate to devaluation of that labor.

Devaluation of labor or our refusal to help those people transition?   We don't have horse drawn carriages anymore yet the human race moved on.  Computers have taken over but they still have to be run by people.   This idea that we can't replace fields and that the workers in those fields can't possibly be expected to learn something new is what got us where we are right now.  Guess what the replacement has been happening regardless and now we have entire swarths of people left unprepared for it.

Can everyone be Bill Gates no?  But I imagine you can retrain someone who is willing to learn to work in solar energy as opposed to coal.     We'd have to make an actual investment in our communities, people and education as opposed to continuing the status quo based on conditioned fear that lifting someone else up means I get shoved down.