Do People Just Not Want To Work Anymore?

[Ryan]

May 10, 2021 22:39:26 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

My generation give millennials a lot of grief and look down on them because they have some very different ideas about working. I’m not so sure they have it wrong.

A lot of them prefer to use technology to make money without having a “normal” job. Others aren’t keen on the idea of spending decades working hard and making a job a priority when employers make it very clear that that they don’t really value them, they’d be just fine with or without them. So they spend enough time at one job, to find a better opportunity elsewhere, and rinse and repeat until they get to where they want to be, instead of sticking with one employer for decades.

How employers treat employees has changed imo, and the generations after mine see jobs and careers differently than mine did when we were their ages. A lot of them aren’t interested in working more and harder for less pay and benefits, which is what many employers want employees to do these days. I can’t say that I really blame the people that say no thanks.

Every once in awhile you see more "old school" comments about people not wanting to work or not showing dedication and it does seem very outdated.  In some cases the comments are being made by people employing very low level workers, probably paying them nothing, and treating them like second class citizens.  When they call in sick, they might say "Nobody wants to work anymore!".  No, more like people don't want to work for you anymore.

I started out my job out of college making $30K/year, 10 days off per year, and they really watched the clock...even though we were salaried.  My first year I started in June and only had 3 days off.  If I walked in 5 minutes late, my manager would ask me to make up the time at lunch.  I was just out of school and didn't know any better.   During my first few years, I heard a lot about how people used to stay at companies forever and companies didn't know what to do with people that just hopped around.  I'm guessing that meant that they weren't used to having to compete for their own employees!

Fast forward to now where corporations are starting to care about their employees attitudes towards their job because they realize it improves morale and retention.  They are starting to recognize that employees have options so they need to make sure they like working there.  For me, it's resulted in better work/life balance, better work environment, and more vacation.  A lot of this has to do with attracting millennials.  

[TheOtherMe]

IA governor is cutting the federal unemployment in 5 weeks.  

DN3 manages a Dairy Queen in a small town.  He says business has been up the entire pandemic (subject to shortages in what they can get in to serve) and they always have enough high school and college kids to work.  Can always use more because they quit all the time, but kids are still applying.

All the swimming pools here are having reduced hours because they can't find life guards.  

[Deleted]

May 11, 2021 16:11:09 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

That's also a thing. In normal times one of my cousins would have been pushed to get a part time job. She is content to be at home. Doesn't have expensive tastes. They moved in the middle of the pandemic last June.

She wasn't pushed to get a job because it would just be more exposure for the household. Yes, they want her to grow up and launch but she doesn't need a job financially right now. She is in college and dealing with depression and other issues. There's zero need for her to bring in a paycheck.

I don't think this can all be blamed on extra unemployment. I believe many past workers have left the restaurant/retail industries permanently. They've found other jobs and other ways to make a living during the pandemic and they aren't going back. They were some big minuses to how those industries scheduled and treated employees and people have found better situations.

Honestly, if I had a young college student that came home to continue classes online due to the pandemic, I doubt I would insist that they work. Especially not a job dealing with the public. I’ve had more than enough worries and concerns about risks and exposure during all this, and insisting my college student work any job they can find would just be one more thing for me to fret about.

The flip side of not insisting they work, would be insisting that they not hang out and run the streets either, since the whole point is to limit exposure for me and my household. So depending on his/her personality, my hypothetical college student might not be so thrilled to be at home with me. 

[Deleted]

May 11, 2021 17:01:21 GMT -5 Ryan said:

May 10, 2021 22:39:26 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

My generation give millennials a lot of grief and look down on them because they have some very different ideas about working. I’m not so sure they have it wrong.

A lot of them prefer to use technology to make money without having a “normal” job. Others aren’t keen on the idea of spending decades working hard and making a job a priority when employers make it very clear that that they don’t really value them, they’d be just fine with or without them. So they spend enough time at one job, to find a better opportunity elsewhere, and rinse and repeat until they get to where they want to be, instead of sticking with one employer for decades.

How employers treat employees has changed imo, and the generations after mine see jobs and careers differently than mine did when we were their ages. A lot of them aren’t interested in working more and harder for less pay and benefits, which is what many employers want employees to do these days. I can’t say that I really blame the people that say no thanks.

Every once in awhile you see more "old school" comments about people not wanting to work or not showing dedication and it does seem very outdated.  In some cases the comments are being made by people employing very low level workers, probably paying them nothing, and treating them like second class citizens.  When they call in sick, they might say "Nobody wants to work anymore!".  No, more like people don't want to work for you anymore.

I started out my job out of college making $30K/year, 10 days off per year, and they really watched the clock...even though we were salaried.  My first year I started in June and only had 3 days off.  If I walked in 5 minutes late, my manager would ask me to make up the time at lunch.  I was just out of school and didn't know any better.   During my first few years, I heard a lot about how people used to stay at companies forever and companies didn't know what to do with people that just hopped around.  I'm guessing that meant that they weren't used to having to compete for their own employees!

Fast forward to now where corporations are starting to care about their employees attitudes towards their job because they realize it improves morale and retention.  They are starting to recognize that employees have options so they need to make sure they like working there.  For me, it's resulted in better work/life balance, better work environment, and more vacation.  A lot of this has to do with attracting millennials.  

I’m one of those old farts that has stuck with one employer for a couple of decades, and I plan to continue until I retire.

But I’m not mad at the people who rebel against a system where employers expect and demand so much, and offer so little in return. I understand why they change employers in pursuit of better opportunities whether that involves more money, a better work/life balance, a non toxic work environment, or whatever.

[bookkeeper]

May 11, 2021 12:07:29 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and probably get flamed but I also think screening for pot needs to end for all but certain professions.   As long as you are not showing up to work high, just as you cannot show up to work drunk it shouldn't matter that someone tokes on the weekends.   It's always confused me how alcohol is perfectly fine to consume and the only way you're going to get caught drunk at work is if you crash the forklift, then why is it a big deal if I smoke a joint on Saturday?

Just as states are deciding to make pot legal I think employers could decide not to test for it. That would probably open up a flood gate of potential employees if you don't have to worry about your Friday night joint showing up on your Monday test.

Or raise the threshold so more people pass.   I am not high at 15 ng/mL in my system.   

Then obviously if I do something dumb you can test me and if I meet the threshold terminate me like you can alcohol.

Our son has a medical card in AZ.  The laws regarding medical marijuana in AZ were written with worker protections in mind.  DS has been applying for different/better jobs.  He goes along in the hiring process and presents his medical card when he reports for the drug screen/physical tests.  I was skeptical about his job hunting with THC in his system, but he recently landed a nice office job with a work from home component.

Employers in the 1970's and 80's didn't care what you did on the weekends.  Until Nancy Regan decided the government should be in your business at work.  I worked for a family business with a trucking company.  My boss threw away any drug/alcohol testing information that came in the mail from the government for the twelve years I worked there.  He didn't want to know who did what on the weekends.  

If labor shortages continue, pre-employment drug screens may only be for people in safety sensitive positions.

[minnesotapaintlady]

May 11, 2021 19:00:35 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

May 11, 2021 17:01:21 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Every once in awhile you see more "old school" comments about people not wanting to work or not showing dedication and it does seem very outdated.  In some cases the comments are being made by people employing very low level workers, probably paying them nothing, and treating them like second class citizens.  When they call in sick, they might say "Nobody wants to work anymore!".  No, more like people don't want to work for you anymore.

I started out my job out of college making $30K/year, 10 days off per year, and they really watched the clock...even though we were salaried.  My first year I started in June and only had 3 days off.  If I walked in 5 minutes late, my manager would ask me to make up the time at lunch.  I was just out of school and didn't know any better.   During my first few years, I heard a lot about how people used to stay at companies forever and companies didn't know what to do with people that just hopped around.  I'm guessing that meant that they weren't used to having to compete for their own employees!

Fast forward to now where corporations are starting to care about their employees attitudes towards their job because they realize it improves morale and retention.  They are starting to recognize that employees have options so they need to make sure they like working there.  For me, it's resulted in better work/life balance, better work environment, and more vacation.  A lot of this has to do with attracting millennials.  

I’m one of those old farts that has stuck with one employer for a couple of decades, and I plan to continue until I retire.

But I’m not mad at the people who rebel against a system where employers expect and demand so much, and offer so little in return. I understand why they change employers in pursuit of better opportunities whether that involves more money, a better work/life balance, a non toxic work environment, or whatever.

Same here.  It's pretty common for those that stay in my town to start out with a company right out of high school or college and never leave.  I've been with mine since 93 and I'm not an anomaly by any means.  There's a lot of people here that started when I did or earlier. 

[Deleted]

May 11, 2021 19:00:35 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

May 11, 2021 17:01:21 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Every once in awhile you see more "old school" comments about people not wanting to work or not showing dedication and it does seem very outdated.  In some cases the comments are being made by people employing very low level workers, probably paying them nothing, and treating them like second class citizens.  When they call in sick, they might say "Nobody wants to work anymore!".  No, more like people don't want to work for you anymore.
<snip>

I’m one of those old farts that has stuck with one employer for a couple of decades, and I plan to continue until I retire.

Ah, I WISH I could have stayed with the same company for decades! Over 38 post-college years I had 8 employers; 10 if you count the two 10-year stints where I stayed on after my employer was acquired. My first move was for better opportunities. The rest were not. One was after a downsizing. One was a small consulting firm that hit hard times after 9/11. A few were toxic politics. I'd think that any "old-school" people would have been through similar things and would understand that loyalty is a joke.

The discussions over minimum wages and working conditions remind me of something a real estate columnist used to tell people who couldn't sell their houses: If you list it for $100 you'll have a buyer. If you keep it at the current price you probably won't. Find another price in that range. Translated to the current topic- you can't get enough people for whatever you're offering. If you offer a $20/hour, paid vacation and sick leave and and health insurance, you'll get a ton of applicants. Find something in the middle that works.

Two consequences of this: prices will go up and employers will be very reluctant to take a chance on marginal applicants- first job, maybe not as polished, will need some hand-holding. This will cut out many people who could be productive members of the workforce if given a chance and some mentoring. As for prices going up, maybe fast food and Wal-Mart SHOULD be more expensive.

ETA:  A few years ago I attended my grade school's 50th reunion and was talking with a guy I remembered as not being any great superstar- but he had his own plumbing company and he was proud of the fact that he provided health insurance for his employees.  I told him that was really noble of him.  I wonder how much business he loses because he's not the cheapest guy on the block.

[wvugurl26]

The guy may lose some business but you may also be surprised. If he runs a good business and his employees show up on time and do good work for the customers, people value that.

DH's old boss replaced our front door and the window over it and the steps from the entry to main first level. He also helped get the entry sub floor replaced and ready for the flooring to be put down.

He's never going to be the cheapest but he's been in business for 25+ years. He's maybe a little slow but his work is meticulous. He built my brother in laws house, gutted and redid my mother in laws kitchen, and finished the addition to my sister in laws house when the first guy screwed them over.

Now granted we don't have to go with the absolute cheapest but I think there's a large segment of consumers that do value good contractors.

[Deleted]

May 12, 2021 7:24:44 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

Now granted we don't have to go with the absolute cheapest but I think there's a large segment of consumers that do value good contractors.

I'm certainly one of them.  One reason I shop at Costco and not Wal-Mart is that I believe Costco treats its people better.  I really feel like the quality of goods and services has been driven WAY down by the large segment of the market that looks at price only, and it's a vicious circle because people who now work in the lowest-paid tier really can't afford anything but the lowest-price provider.  In the 1960s, men could support a family including a stay-at-home spouse working in retail.  I remember the salesman at the shoe store measuring my foot and then going back to the stock room and bringing out shoes for me to try on.  More recently, I went looking for the guys who duplicate keys at Lowes and was directed to a vending machine that now performs that task- except that the guys at the desk could also re-key a lock to match another one so you could use the same key on both locks.  They're gone.

Some of the changes removed inefficiencies from the processes, but more affected the quality of what you buy.  

[resolution]

May 11, 2021 15:34:44 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

I'm going to 2nd what MPL says. My DH is in his 50s and his body is just beat to crap. He always been an excellent blue collar worker but now he should be on disability but it isn't offered at his type of job. It's a good thing he married money 😅

My husband is a carpenter and he tore something in his shoulder 10 years ago (at age 30) while drywalling a ceiling. He is still having issues with it 10 years later. Fortunately he has transitioned into designing projects on the AutoCAD and programming the CNC machines, but his shop only has 2 jobs like that and has 20 jobs that require a lot of physical labor that would just exacerbate his injury.

[ohmomto2boys]

Twenty-three states have gone back to requiring UE recipients to look for jobs. They have to document their job searches. In GA they have to provide name/address of company, phone number, name of contact, date applied. It's not the give-away that some would have you believe.

Ohio is one of those states starting next week.  There are businesses everywhere looking for workers.  Some businesses have closed because they cannot get staff.

My 14 yr old DS was able to get a job a month ago.  He is washing dishes at a pizza shop and greasing the pans.  Works 2-3 nights a week, for a couple hours each night.  He is making minimum wage.....he should never be making $15/hr for that work.  

[Cookies Galore]

May 11, 2021 17:01:21 GMT -5 Ryan said:

May 10, 2021 22:39:26 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

My generation give millennials a lot of grief and look down on them because they have some very different ideas about working. I’m not so sure they have it wrong.

A lot of them prefer to use technology to make money without having a “normal” job. Others aren’t keen on the idea of spending decades working hard and making a job a priority when employers make it very clear that that they don’t really value them, they’d be just fine with or without them. So they spend enough time at one job, to find a better opportunity elsewhere, and rinse and repeat until they get to where they want to be, instead of sticking with one employer for decades.

How employers treat employees has changed imo, and the generations after mine see jobs and careers differently than mine did when we were their ages. A lot of them aren’t interested in working more and harder for less pay and benefits, which is what many employers want employees to do these days. I can’t say that I really blame the people that say no thanks.

Every once in awhile you see more "old school" comments about people not wanting to work or not showing dedication and it does seem very outdated.  In some cases the comments are being made by people employing very low level workers, probably paying them nothing, and treating them like second class citizens.  When they call in sick, they might say "Nobody wants to work anymore!".  No, more like people don't want to work for you anymore.

I started out my job out of college making $30K/year, 10 days off per year, and they really watched the clock...even though we were salaried.  My first year I started in June and only had 3 days off.  If I walked in 5 minutes late, my manager would ask me to make up the time at lunch.  I was just out of school and didn't know any better.   During my first few years, I heard a lot about how people used to stay at companies forever and companies didn't know what to do with people that just hopped around.  I'm guessing that meant that they weren't used to having to compete for their own employees!

Fast forward to now where corporations are starting to care about their employees attitudes towards their job because they realize it improves morale and retention.  They are starting to recognize that employees have options so they need to make sure they like working there.  For me, it's resulted in better work/life balance, better work environment, and more vacation.  A lot of this has to do with attracting millennials.  

Yeah man. I'm an old millennial (I'll be 40 in September) and have been with my employer for 12 years. Yes, I enjoy what I do and I can see myself here for a long time, but it's the 35-hour work week, nearly eight weeks of PTO, great insurance, and work from home flexibility that keeps me wanting to be here. When I started here I said "no" to working a regular 40-hour work week ever again and I am damn good at what I do. A true work-life balance is a priority for me and I have no qualms about looking elsewhere if that were threatened.

[sesfw]

I'm with my present employer for 6 years now, part-time on-call.  I love what I'm doing, electronic assembly.  I'm needing to quit due to DH's memory loss and anxiety issues. I've cut my hours about in half, going home at noon to be with DH.

It's a great job for a bored retiree not needing the benefits of a full time position.  I live in an 'older citizen' community and drive 4 1/2 miles to work.

My company has been actively looking for my replacement for a couple of months without luck.  Zero applicants. 

I've talked with several people who are making more money on UE with added govt benefits than they could by going back to work.  Phasing out the added funds is a great idea.

[Lizard Queen]

May 12, 2021 9:36:22 GMT -5 ohmomto2boys said:

Twenty-three states have gone back to requiring UE recipients to look for jobs. They have to document their job searches. In GA they have to provide name/address of company, phone number, name of contact, date applied. It's not the give-away that some would have you believe.

Ohio is one of those states starting next week.  There are businesses everywhere looking for workers.  Some businesses have closed because they cannot get staff.

My 14 yr old DS was able to get a job a month ago.  He is washing dishes at a pizza shop and greasing the pans.  Works 2-3 nights a week, for a couple hours each night.  He is making minimum wage.....he should never be making $15/hr for that work.  

I just read today that Michigan is going to start requiring job search documentation again soon. 


Back in the 90's, our state min. wage was < the federal min wage, and my BF's parents were able to pay only the state min at their tanning salon.

[swamp]

I stopped at McDonald’s this morning for an egg McMuffin. I got a job application with my breakfast

[NoNamePerson]

May 13, 2021 8:03:38 GMT -5 swamp said:

I stopped at McDonald’s this morning for an egg McMuffin. I got a job application with my breakfast

  That started my day off with a good laugh! 

[TheOtherMe]

I got a flyer about jobs with my groceries last week.

[stillmovingforward]

I wonder if some of this is showing how many people have a health issue or live with someone with a health issue that makes exposure to COVID more dangerous?
I wouldn't let my college age kids, who live at home now, work during the worst of it prior to getting vaccinated. Even now, I'm glad they don't have public facing jobs. One of their friends parents had the same requirement.

[resolution]

There was information about how to apply for a job on my liquor store receipt. I hadn't realized that the liquor store cashiers were state employees with benefits. 

[NoNamePerson]

May 13, 2021 9:39:18 GMT -5 resolution said:

There was information about how to apply for a job on my liquor store receipt. I hadn't realized that the liquor store cashiers were state employees with benefits. 

We have State liquor stores here too. Also have a few independent liquor stores! Price of liquor was so high back long ago that I became a “runner” due to going to Louisiana minimum of once a month. And booze was so cheap!        No clue about cost of booze here even now. 

[Deleted]

Governor here just announced that he's cutting off extra $300 fed benefit on June 26, too. So far 13 states (all with Republican governors) are cutting it off.

[movingforward]

May 12, 2021 10:39:09 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

May 11, 2021 17:01:21 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Every once in awhile you see more "old school" comments about people not wanting to work or not showing dedication and it does seem very outdated.  In some cases the comments are being made by people employing very low level workers, probably paying them nothing, and treating them like second class citizens.  When they call in sick, they might say "Nobody wants to work anymore!".  No, more like people don't want to work for you anymore.

I started out my job out of college making $30K/year, 10 days off per year, and they really watched the clock...even though we were salaried.  My first year I started in June and only had 3 days off.  If I walked in 5 minutes late, my manager would ask me to make up the time at lunch.  I was just out of school and didn't know any better.   During my first few years, I heard a lot about how people used to stay at companies forever and companies didn't know what to do with people that just hopped around.  I'm guessing that meant that they weren't used to having to compete for their own employees!

Fast forward to now where corporations are starting to care about their employees attitudes towards their job because they realize it improves morale and retention.  They are starting to recognize that employees have options so they need to make sure they like working there.  For me, it's resulted in better work/life balance, better work environment, and more vacation.  A lot of this has to do with attracting millennials.  

Yeah man. I'm an old millennial (I'll be 40 in September) and have been with my employer for 12 years. Yes, I enjoy what I do and I can see myself here for a long time, but it's the 35-hour work week, nearly eight weeks of PTO, great insurance, and work from home flexibility that keeps me wanting to be here. When I started here I said "no" to working a regular 40-hour work week ever again and I am damn good at what I do. A true work-life balance is a priority for me and I have no qualms about looking elsewhere if that were threatened.

I'm gen X (48 years old) and this is what has kept me at my organization for 10 years (though I don't get 8 weeks of PTO! That is freaking awesome!).

[ktunes]

While I'm sure there is a portion of the workforce not able to work because of child care options, fact is schools should all be open a full 5 days a week for in person learning...many states and schools have been with no issues...my area has help wanted signs almost everywhere and not just restaurants...distribution centers are offing decent wages with signing bonuses...seems to me we should stop paying people more to sit at home...there was not an issue staffing most of these jobs prior to the pandemic...

[tskeeter]

Aren’t these interesting times?  

Quite a few employers seem to be struggling with the concept that the scales in the employment area have tipped in favor of employees.  And that employees are demonstrating some different expectations than they did in the past.  People who have worked in public contact, low pay jobs are now taking the position that minimum wage isn’t worth risking their lives for.  Other employees have decided that increased interest in working from home means that they have work opportunities beyond their immediate geographic area.  Employees who are unwilling to return to low paying jobs are forcing movement away from the wage stagnation that employers have enjoyed for a long time.

[ktunes]

i think if you take away the incentive to stay home, the extra unemployment 300 stipend, i think you would find the last disappointing jobs report would have been much different...if people can make more sitting at home, most will...if they can make more working, they'll go back to work...

there are at least 18 states now voluntarily ending the extra 300.00 fed payment...let's see what the numbers are in those states in a month or 2...

[Deleted]

I just read in a LinkedIn news feed that companies are going back to training their employees- they call it "upskilling"- because it's cheaper to train a current employee with a known track record than them because you don't need their current skillset and hire someone new.

Wow- training your employees. What a radical thought. It gives me hope.

[Deleted]

Maybe the schools are *all* open in some places. Here most of them are partly face-to-face and partly virtual. In one county south of us, there are five schools that had to be closed last week because of an outbreak. In addition, many school districts will have classes most of the summer to play catch up. Those schools will also be a combination of virtual/face-to-face.

Then there's the problem of daycare. Many are open but not accepting more kids because they simply have no room. With schools out for the summer this week and next, child care is going to be even more of a problem.

Not everybody getting the additional $300 is sitting at home doing nothing except collecting more money. Down here gig workers and self-employed are being cut off, too. It's not like they can demand that prospective/former clients give them work. Their clients can't give them work when there's none to give.

Those who have jobs and child care and/or have jobs that allow them to work from home are fortunate. Not everyone can do that so let's not make sweeping generalizations because this is just not a one-size-fits-all situation.

[thyme4change]

I think low paid workers who have been treated like shit should strike and unionize.

America was "great" because unions protected workers and were one factor in the rise of the middle class. As unions disappeared, so did our 'greatness'.

[TheOtherMe]

Someone started a thread on FB about the jobs openings around here and suggested including starting wage and duties.

There isn't a single one of those jobs I would apply for.  No guaranteed hours, horrible jobs, no benefits.  

Iowa had a lot of people move out of this state in the last few years.  Has it occurred to people that those who want to work and can do those crappy jobs no longer live here?  

[giramomma]

Has anyone talked about the fact that the pandemic has just made labor issues worse? That labor issues existed before the pandemic?

An article I was reading talked about how the trucking industry has been hurting for a long time. As well as manufacturing.

While I would like to lay it at the hands of the pandemic, the truth it there were issues beforehand.

Low birth rates/small family size, the middle class and above still pushing 4 year colleges on their kids as the only option in life, the previous administration's stance on immigrants, no matter what their status is.

There is a lot to unpack. Problem is no one wants to do the hard work. Repeating 30-40 year old talking points to engage your base, whether or not its true, is just so much easier.