chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 9, 2021 11:10:07 GMT -5
it wasn't so much the going to the office that I didn't like, but that 2h one-way commute was wearing me out. unfortunately, that's what I get for living where I want and having a career in the industry I do. and, while I was able to shorten my office day by using the ~1h on the train to actively work, that model doesn't work with the new role I moved into during COVID.
I was actually talking to my boss about this earlier this week. he and another guy in the group both live near Raleigh, NC. one guy from the other side of the merger is also 100% remote, not sure where he actually lives. our group's "home base" largely moved from downtown to the old HQ of the other company in the merger - just 11 miles (I just checked Google maps) but that 11mi are in the wrong direction and would force me to drive. I chose to stay in the downtown office. and then, the WFH thing started. we were already WFH 1-2x/wk and wholly set up for Webex meetings with colleagues scattered everywhere.
I was also talking to mooch and M about this, too. b/c I'll need to enlist their help with pup sitting once in awhile. my boss figures moving forward, that we will work wherever we're comfortable (office, home, some mix) and have a few days of 'face time' where the NC guys fly up to MA and we have some team building meetings and events. in that case, I'll pack up the pups for mooch/M to keep them, and I'll go stay in a hotel for a night or two up next to the office. the rest of the time, I'll just stay in my home office.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 9, 2021 11:12:16 GMT -5
I have another friend that told me the other day that she gets SO tired now just working 8 hours since returning to the office. Pre-covid she would work 10-12 hour days in the office with no problem. Honestly, I think we have all gotten a bit lazy. A few weeks ago I was actually in the office 5 days one week and I was bushed. It didn't used to phase me at all. Now anything more than 3 days in the office seems like too much. This lazy comment intrigues me, as I contemplate my life over the past two years. In February of 20, working two jobs, parenting four kids, and going to school was easy to handle.
In February 21 and April 21, not so much. Not because I'm lazy. But because the plate got more full, and well, I'm older.
Starting about Feb 21, my kids' school schedules started changing at least every 2-4 weeks. 3/4 of them were doing school online, which we also had to manage. This was to continue through the end of April. I was also dealing with the death of my dad. And, of Course April, not only continuing to support/deal with my mom, but adding to that, a cancer diagnosis and well, frankly more to my plate. And I also now have a 3 year old that does no sleep through the night.
So. I think it's ok, that as my plate gets fuller, that I have less energy and tire a little easier. I think it's OK that I get "lazier" as the mental load increases. Dealing with 6 separate schedules can be a mind-screw.
I'm also coming to terms with the fact that at 46, with an over-run plate...I just can't handle my early 20's lifestyle anymore of playing hard and working hard. I could pull multiple all nighters a week and still perform at 20.
Actually, I could still do that at 36. I could still do life hard like when I was 20. It was common for me to be up for 30+ hours straight a couple days a week at 36. I was awarded a merit based raise (which are very hard to come by in times of no-raises) within a year of returning from "maternity leave" from the peanut. I was working 60-65 hour weeks with no time off except legal holidays while I was pregnant with her, and after my maternity leave. And I my maternity leave was really being off of work completely for 3 weeks, and then going back part time at my day job so that between my jobs, I was working 40 hour weeks. But, at 46, I can't do life hard anymore like I could at 20. I don't think there's anything wrong with me. I don't think I'm lazy. It's just that at some point, plates get full and mental load really does become thing. Well, you have always had WAY too much going on...you are like super woman. There's no way I could handle the stuff you have done over the last several years.
I am 48 and can definitely tell a huge difference between what I could do in my 20's and 30's as compared to what I do now. I do feel like the pandemic made me lazier though...it's not like 15 months was so long ago...If I could work 5 days in the office, go to the gym afterwards, etc without blinking 15 months ago then I should still be able to do that now. The difference is that I have gotten used to not having to do it that way...now I can basically get my exercise in on the days I work from home in the morning or during lunch, leaving my nights totally free. I have more free time now than ever before and I have gotten used to it. There's nothing wrong with that...I value my free time and I have definitely learned that I don't want to work my life away
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jun 9, 2021 12:13:49 GMT -5
I don't think people are lazy. I think most of us were exhausted before covid. The pandemic forced a reset. People caught up on their rest and weren't so strung out and constantly scrambling from one thing to the next.
So yes, a return to the office 5 days a week, their body is protesting and saying what is this shit?
It's been proven that many positions can be successfully done from home. I don't know why we push being in an office 5 days a week and the commute and bs that comes with it. And personally my building was making several of us physically ill. Unless they move us, I have zero desire to ever go back.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 9, 2021 12:54:36 GMT -5
I don't think people are lazy. I think most of us were exhausted before covid. The pandemic forced a reset. People caught up on their rest and weren't so strung out and constantly scrambling from one thing to the next. So yes, a return to the office 5 days a week, their body is protesting and saying what is this shit? It's been proven that many positions can be successfully done from home. I don't know why we push being in an office 5 days a week and the commute and bs that comes with it. And personally my building was making several of us physically ill. Unless they move us, I have zero desire to ever go back. I think there are some people that were constantly on the go and figured out that they are healthier not living that way. I know people that worked 10 hours in the office, have kids, and also did massive amount of volunteer work. It seemed like they never slowed down. Once they did, they figured out slowing down isn't all that bad.
I can only speak for myself, but I was not exhausted before covid. I just didn't have as much free time. I certainly don't think everyone needs to be in the office 5 days a week (I certainly don't want to be), but I think a lot of people just don't want to admit that they have become spoiled by not having to go to the office. I can admit it...I have become spoiled.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 9, 2021 14:41:04 GMT -5
Is that spoiled, or is that how life should really be? We Americans tended to normalize being constantly on the go, but it really isn't normal, or healthy.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jun 9, 2021 14:57:40 GMT -5
Is that spoiled, or is that how life should really be? We Americans tended to normalize being constantly on the go, but it really isn't normal, or healthy. Europe doesn't normalize being overworked. We tend to think it's a badge of honor or at the very least normal. It's been nice to slow down and have sufficient sleep for the first time in over a decade. I don't see that as being spoiled with free time.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 9, 2021 14:59:53 GMT -5
Is that spoiled, or is that how life should really be? We Americans tended to normalize being constantly on the go, but it really isn't normal, or healthy. I guess it is subjective...if you ask someone that works a physically demanding job 40+ hours a week if they think the people whining about having to go back and sit in an office a couple of days a week are being a bit spoiled my guess is they would say yes.
I've always felt like there is no need for people to spend a specific amount of time with their butt in a chair. Slow days in the office always annoyed the crap out of me. Why did I need to be there? Why did I need to sit in a chair 40 hours a week when I could accomplish what needed to be done in 30? At the same time though, I don't think it is outlandish for employers to expect people to show up at the office a couple of days a week.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 9, 2021 15:11:39 GMT -5
Is that spoiled, or is that how life should really be? We Americans tended to normalize being constantly on the go, but it really isn't normal, or healthy. I guess it is subjective...if you ask someone that works a physically demanding job 40+ hours a week if they think the people whining about having to go back and sit in an office a couple of days a week are being a bit spoiled my guess is they would say yes.
I've always felt like there is no need for people to spend a specific amount of time with their butt in a chair. Slow days in the office always annoyed the crap out of me. Why did I need to be there? Why did I need to sit in a chair 40 hours a week when I could accomplish what needed to be done in 30? At the same time though, I don't think it is outlandish for employers to expect people to show up at the office a couple of days a week.
For me, it has a whole lot to do with the commute, and a little with the dress code. Getting myself presentable and to the office and home takes about 2 hours of my day. That's huge. I'm more than willing to put some of that extra time back into work, when I'm WFH, when I would be itching to get out as soon as my 8 hours is up at the office.
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Post by empress of self-improvement on Jun 9, 2021 16:34:20 GMT -5
I was also talking to mooch and M about this, too. b/c I'll need to enlist their help with pup sitting once in awhile. my boss figures moving forward, that we will work wherever we're comfortable (office, home, some mix) and have a few days of 'face time' where the NC guys fly up to MA and we have some team building meetings and events. in that case, I'll pack up the pups for mooch/M to keep them, and I'll go stay in a hotel for a night or two up next to the office. the rest of the time, I'll just stay in my home office. [/quote]
If the homebase is anywhere near me, you're welcome to crash here. I'm not far outside of Boston, as you know.
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Post by empress of self-improvement on Jun 9, 2021 16:37:35 GMT -5
I'm spoiled. My commute is 20 minutes, maybe a little longer if I hit school busses. I did the WFH thing for a few months. I can't do it now. I already feel positively mental, it would be worse if it was permanent. Ok, I'd be downright suicidal if it was permanent. DH kicking the bucket did not help my mental state any.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 9, 2021 16:39:15 GMT -5
If the homebase is anywhere near me, you're welcome to crash here. I'm not far outside of Boston, as you know. thanks! it's fairly close to 2/95. I'll probably be posting about upcoming "in person" days before I actually go, so please remind me that you offered. we're not even discussing a timeline for return, nevermind actually having one of these face time trips planned. lol... *note: I fixed the quote code.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jun 9, 2021 16:41:53 GMT -5
If it was just 40 hours that would be one thing. Instead there's the commute and getting ready so I was gone at least 12 hours a day on a good day and my DH was gone for 13-14. That's half the day shot. Subtract another 8 supposedly for sleep and there's not enough time left for everything else so sleep gets the short end of the stick.
I don't think it makes me spoiled to not want to be rushing around to get from one place to the next five days a week. I work with people all over the country so I was never physically in the same office with my coworkers except for immediate supervisors. And my building gave me asthma and migraines. So hell no I don't want to return.
Different jobs have different trade offs. My brother wouldn't like to be an auditor and I won't try to repair rail cars or elevators and escalators. Sometimes he's jealous of my work at home but certainly not when he punches out after his 8 hours and I'm putting in 12-13 to finish a project/contract/whatever.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 9, 2021 16:58:03 GMT -5
If it was just 40 hours that would be one thing. Instead there's the commute and getting ready so I was gone at least 12 hours a day on a good day and my DH was gone for 13-14. That's half the day shot. Subtract another 8 supposedly for sleep and there's not enough time left for everything else so sleep gets the short end of the stick. I don't think it makes me spoiled to not want to be rushing around to get from one place to the next five days a week. I work with people all over the country so I was never physically in the same office with my coworkers except for immediate supervisors. And my building gave me asthma and migraines. So hell no I don't want to return. Different jobs have different trade offs. My brother wouldn't like to be an auditor and I won't try to repair rail cars or elevators and escalators. Sometimes he's jealous of my work at home but certainly not when he punches out after his 8 hours and I'm putting in 12-13 to finish a project/contract/whatever. this!! my entire building is offices, the labs for R & D are in a different campus building. my group manages "external manufacturing" so legit, *nothing* I do is on-site. and, when we merged and reorganized, I ended up with products that were all L-the other company. so none of the planning/logistics folks are here either. my primary team is just outside of Philly. I'm not driving 2h to the office to dial in to the same calls I can take from home. I am glad you are feeling better since leaving the Legionnaires suite. that's huge.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Jun 9, 2021 17:22:25 GMT -5
From 2011 to 2016, I worked a 3-2-2, 12 hour shifts and it was a mix of at a desk and on the flightline, depending upon if there were any broke jets. Once I finished my 20 years in May 2016, I worked only my retail jobs, always on my feet but only 3-4 shifts a week for 6 hours or so. When I moved to Iowa for three months, I didn't work at all and lived out in the boonies; and then I moved here six weeks before the world shut down.
When I got the new full-time job back in September, it was brutal. I was scheduled to go to work five days a week, getting to the office NLT 9am and leaving at 5pm or later. I say "scheduled" because migraines prevented me from actually going in five days a week. To some extent, they still do.
I just don't see how people actually go to work five days a week, 9-5ish. There's so much non-productive time. I akin it to a sleep cycle, sort of. When we're attempting to sleep, there's light sleep, there's REM, and then there's the restorative deep sleep. Productive time would be that deep sleep or even REM but we spend most of our work time in the light sleep stages.
We may be attempting to sleep all night and get only 50 minutes of deep sleep and 2-3 hours of REM. Work is the same way. We spend 50 minutes in good "flow", 2-3 hours in other productive activities, and the rest is just filler.
It's exhausting.
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Jun 9, 2021 17:39:06 GMT -5
I must be the only one completely strung out by COVID! It wasn't a reset for me; I found myself working later into the night to prove that I wouldn't let anything fall through the cracks while at home and also doing virtual school for the kids. And that continued even when the kids went back to physical school.
I only went to the office once a week before COVID, but I don't know what I'll do now. Nobody has to return until after Labor Day, so I have a little time to make my decision if I return a day or so a week or ask to go remote fulltime. Office is 40 miles/45 minutes away.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Jun 9, 2021 17:54:27 GMT -5
We are in the midst of transitioning back to the office. I think most people figured that a return to the office, after working from home full-time for 15 months, would be more "flexible". Come in 2 days a week, you pick the days based on your schedule.
The leadership rolled out the plan and it includes 2 days a week during the "transition" phase. That's not a huge deal, but I think it's making some people concerned that if that's the transition, then what can we expect in the future. I think people WANT 1-2 days a week, they'll deal with 3 days a week, and won't be happy with 4-5 days a week in the office. I also think people would prefer to have SOME control over which 3 days they are in and unsure how that will look.
I do understand the argument for being in the office and I think the relationships with my co-workers made it easier for me to work from home, that relationship was really formed in the office. However, I think most people realize that could be accomplished with 1-2 days ALL IN and I think people will be upset if we go beyond that (which we probably will). Who knows, we'll see.
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Jun 9, 2021 18:02:48 GMT -5
I joined a new company at the start of covid lock down in our state. It was actually fairly easy to get into the groove of people and all those little nuances that make in- person work 'easier'. I was really surprised, to be honest.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 9, 2021 18:13:16 GMT -5
I must be the only one completely strung out by COVID! It wasn't a reset for me; I found myself working later into the night to prove that I wouldn't let anything fall through the cracks while at home and also doing virtual school for the kids. And that continued even when the kids went back to physical school. I only went to the office once a week before COVID, but I don't know what I'll do now. Nobody has to return until after Labor Day, so I have a little time to make my decision if I return a day or so a week or ask to go remote fulltime. Office is 40 miles/45 minutes away. No, no you are not. Not everyone had the option of work at home, and for essential workers it was far from a picnic. More like an continually unfolding horror story for at least the first six months. I'm sure I wasn't the only one at work wondering "what the hell now" on an almost daily basis as information and protocols seemed to change on the fly. Because of that I am still carrying Covid stress weight and sadly am lumpy (cortisol, constantly anyone?) and did not want to wear dresses or my nicer clothes. But this week the A/C is not working really in the lobby, so the indoor temps have been between 77 and 80 degrees during the last week or so. So I wore dresses the last two days even though I hate how I look below the midriff and above the knees. But as someone pointed out to me, we have been through so much, why really care about that at all? We are still alive and employed, and given two of my coworkers died from Covid and way too many residents, etc. Its only ugly weight. And if someone judges me badly for it, that says more about them than it really says about me or my appearance. And today I got to wear a N95 mask all shift with the two straps too. I don't know how people stay hydrated wearing them, but they must. I'm sure in the next few days I'll figure it out ... I hope.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Jun 12, 2021 14:10:03 GMT -5
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Jun 16, 2021 9:23:44 GMT -5
I don't want to work, I just want to bang on the drum all day!
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 16, 2021 14:55:13 GMT -5
I want to work, but I prefer it was doing stuff on TV or making movies. In related news, I was told NJ is still doing the extended benefit money. (Phone call from a pollster, which I answered because I am that sick and that tired. LOL sort of) Apparently we are 7th in UE. NJ is never one of the states with the lowest unemployment, so I kind of felt meh at that "fact". If you don't know why and don't know the context of other states, its just a fact in a vacuum. And I prefer not to make decisions on that.
So no, I'm not voting for the winner of the GOP primary for governor, but now I will read up on him.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 17:18:23 GMT -5
Over the last few days, on FB, I’ve seen CNN and WSJ post links to articles about this. The WSJ article title said that people are resigning instead of going back to the office. I couldn’t read the entire article because I’m not a subscriber.
The comments under both posts were interesting to me. As I suspected, a lot of people said that the pandemic forced them to spend more time with their family and they came to value that time so much that they are no longer interested in spending hours of their days getting back and forth to an office. Others said that the pandemic caused a shift in employees thinking, and they are no longer willing to give up so much of their lives for a job.
I remember one specific comment by a woman who said that pre-pandemic, she had a good job. Good salary and benefits, and opportunities for advancement. But when she started working from home, she was spending more time with her family and she liked it. So she quit her job and opened her own business.
I didn’t wade through all the thousands of comments, but I read enough from people that said that the pandemic gave them a chance to really think about some things and shift their thinking about life and work balance, the kind of work they prefer and what’s reasonable for employers to expect from employees. Being forced to slow down made always being on the go between the time they spend related to their jobs and trying to manage their personal lives much less appealing.
Basically, the comments confirmed a lot of the ideas expressed in this thread that had nothing to do with just not wanting to work.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 18:15:52 GMT -5
movingforward I can see why some retired people struggle a bit...they don't necessarily want to go back to working but don't want to sit at home all day either (staring at the same 4 walls can be depressing). It's just not mentally healthy to stay home all day...at least not for me. Exactly why I went out and got myself a job. I was getting so depressed that it was hard to get out of bed and once I did, got dressed and lay down on the sofa to take a nap. I didn't want to "bother" eating even though I was hungry, and my give-a-shitometer was as useless as teats on a boar hog. Besides having somewhere to go, something to do and other carbon-based units to talk to, there's payday to look forward to!
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Jun 17, 2021 19:40:50 GMT -5
Pink - here's hoping this leads to a cultural shift that we all benefit from.
I listened to a work sponsored webinar on virtual fatigue. The guy had some interesting research about how all these zoom mtgs affect our brain. Basically it's too much stimulous for too long and our brains cannot process the unnatural queues of all the heads. It was fascinating and made so much sense.
He said two companies have experiments with capping mtgs at 4 per day. And two have shut off their email servers from 10 pm to 4 am. Both of these would be a godsend for me. I've taken to declining mtgs and blocking my calendar for project hours. I don't look at email after work but I still have work coming from those that do. All 4 of these companies had proven increased productivity, less pto, and employee wellness.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jun 17, 2021 19:50:55 GMT -5
I highly recommend blocking time to get actual work done. If I'm particularly behind or too many meetings are cropping up, I start blocking chunks.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 18, 2021 7:30:45 GMT -5
movingforward I can see why some retired people struggle a bit...they don't necessarily want to go back to working but don't want to sit at home all day either (staring at the same 4 walls can be depressing). It's just not mentally healthy to stay home all day...at least not for me. Exactly why I went out and got myself a job. I was getting so depressed that it was hard to get out of bed and once I did, got dressed and lay down on the sofa to take a nap. I didn't want to "bother" eating even though I was hungry, and my give-a-shitometer was as useless as teats on a boar hog. Besides having somewhere to go, something to do and other carbon-based units to talk to, there's payday to look forward to! There is always volunteering if you can afford to. One of the people running the clinic is at least 90. I think working or volunteering gives you purpose and lengthens your life. Some people have very active retirements, but you need wheels or access to transport. Some men do the rounds visiting people in facilities and helping out. My Dad is very active in the church from doing hospital visits to members, to pinch hitting as a lay pastor if needed. And I think its good to go somewhere. I tried freelancing writing many years ago, but I am not self motivated to do that home alone. I think I need at least three outside the home days to stay on the rails. I would love for you to share work stories. I have many, but I think I need to figure out a way to combine and fictionalize them.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Jun 21, 2021 21:10:43 GMT -5
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 21, 2021 22:39:46 GMT -5
I remember two years ago when I was PISSED I got a 1% raise because we did so bad and only had a 65 million profit. A coworker was happy to get that when we "lost money" according to what she was hearing. Meanwhile last year after laying off hundreds and literally actually losing money we got 2% raises for all our hard work (though they also furloughed all employees left for a month at that time). Our CEO owned enough stock to do whatever the fuck he wanted.
That's when I hit fuck it. Companies will say whatever they want to employees for an advantage. Balls to the wall go get your money - they sure as hell won't willingly give it.
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mary2029
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Post by mary2029 on Jun 21, 2021 23:01:49 GMT -5
I remember two years ago when I was PISSED I got a 1% raise because we did so bad and only had a 65 million profit. A coworker was happy to get that when we "lost money" according to what she was hearing. Meanwhile last year after laying off hundreds and literally actually losing money we got 2% raises for all our hard work (though they also furloughed all employees left for a month at that time). Our CEO owned enough stock to do whatever the fuck he wanted. That's when I hit fuck it. Companies will say whatever they want to employees for an advantage. Balls to the wall go get your money - they sure as hell won't willingly give it. Yep, my company has decided that since people have worked at home for the most part for the last 1.5 years, they can get rid of (or significantly reduce) office space and for the previous teleworkers, get rid of paying for their internet. Two years ago, they also got rid of the nonbillable charge numbers (so people got paid only if they worked). They have been making money hand over fist... so now they are giving everyone a 1% raise... which is going to be paid by the clients. Sorry... I am not drinking the kool-aid.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 21, 2021 23:11:15 GMT -5
I remember two years ago when I was PISSED I got a 1% raise because we did so bad and only had a 65 million profit. A coworker was happy to get that when we "lost money" according to what she was hearing. Meanwhile last year after laying off hundreds and literally actually losing money we got 2% raises for all our hard work (though they also furloughed all employees left for a month at that time). Our CEO owned enough stock to do whatever the fuck he wanted. That's when I hit fuck it. Companies will say whatever they want to employees for an advantage. Balls to the wall go get your money - they sure as hell won't willingly give it. Yep, my company has decided that since people have worked at home for the most part for the last 1.5 years, they can get rid of (or significantly reduce) office space and for the previous teleworkers, get rid of paying for their internet. Two years ago, they also got rid of the nonbillable charge numbers (so people got paid only if they worked). They have been making money hand over fist... so now they are giving everyone a 1% raise... which is going to be paid by the clients. Sorry... I am not drinking the kool-aid. Ha! My company is trying to offload the building they own now that we've shown we can work remote. 🙄 Before this it varied by dept but mine only allowed a few days per month at home unless there were specific circumstances. But my manager just hired a new employee literally half way across the country so when they sort out our office and ask us to come back my starting offer will be 'as much as the new guy is in the office' but I'll settle for 'whenever I feel like it or when requested up to twice a month'. I love no commute. Plus my ymam is like my 13 year old car will last longer if I keep putting only 5k miles a year on it.
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