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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2021 22:17:48 GMT -5
What's it like in your area? It’s a seller’s market in my area. The house we bought less than 2 years ago has substantially increased in value since then. I read an article on a local news stations website today (I prefer reading the news over watching it) talking about this very thing, and how the availability of mid-priced homes, for this LCOL area $75k to $150k, is so limited in supply, that normally overlooked areas are in demand. That explains why I’ve been bombarded lately with texts and calls from (I assume) investors asking about buying my other house. My children are even getting the texts and calls. What I’m about to say may sound kind of racist, but it’s rooted in fact, so please bear with me. In the city my house is in, “white flight” has been a real thing my whole life. My house is in an area of the city called “Whitehaven”. Current residents refer to it as “Blackhaven”. Historically, the city was built close to the Mississippi River, and expanded east, north and south. Whitehaven was once the “suburbs” of the city. Guess who had the money and means to move to Whitehaven. Anyway, when I bought my house 20 years ago, Whitehaven was the wealthiest Black owned area in the entire state. It was a “hot” market and it took almost a year of trying before I was able to buy a house I could afford in the area. FWIW, I didn’t know any of that at the time or why it was so difficult, I was just trying to buy a house in an area that was convenient for the family help I had with my children. During the housing market crash and for several years after, Zillow said my house was worth what felt to me like $5, a LOT less than I paid for it. Recently, the value (according to Zillow) has increased dramatically, to quite a bit more than I paid for it. Interestingly enough, (and this is where I might start to really sound racist, but it’s all really just knowing the area I live in) around the time the value started increasing people that are out and about in the area started commented on how they saw more white people in the area. There are a few white people in the neighborhood and surrounding area, that have owned their homes since forever. Any other white people driving around, it was safe to assume they were looking for drugs. Sorry, but again, that’s just fact. But within the last year or so, even I have noticed more “normal” white people and I don’t even live there anymore, though I have reasons to visit my house ever so often. Gentrification has been a thing in the downtown area for a while now, and it’s been spreading outward from the downtown area. The area my house is in isn’t really close to downtown, but clearly, something is happening there too. The area mentioned in the news article I read today is rich in the history of Black people in the city owning their own homes and doing their own thing, and now it’s become a “hot” market for people looking to buy. Unfortunately, even with the rich history, it’s become an area that I wouldn’t even choose to live in. But somehow, now it’s “hot”. I think it’s interesting that I saw in my lifetime, “white flight” had people moving to the outer edges of the city and beyond, to the newly built suburbs. I used to joke that eventually all the white people would move to Nashville since they kept moving farther and farther East, and guess what.... Nashville had an explosion of growth that started several years ago. Maybe I should take my thoughts and ideas more seriously. But now the ones that didn’t move to Nashville are coming back to the inner city and the “projects” in and around the inner city have been and are being demolished down to build different kinds of housing more suitable to people of means. So the news article said there’s an abundance of really expensive homes for sale in the area, but more reasonably priced homes are in very short supply, which is driving up the prices even in what would have been previously considered less than desirable areas and neighborhoods. I’m not mad about the value of my other house and the one I live in dramatically increasing in value, I just think it’s all interesting. So what’s going on in with the housing market where you live?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 4, 2021 0:05:06 GMT -5
RE is outrageous here. Northern CA.
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pooks
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Post by pooks on Apr 4, 2021 0:24:25 GMT -5
I have been watching real estate go up and up and up everywhere we are interested in buying. I would like to sell the current house, Boise, which has doubled in 6 years. It was always supposed to be a 6 year house, but there isn't anything to buy that is better than what we have. Inventory seems to be a problem everywhere. And as long as inventory is a problem, sellers can't list, because there isn't anything to buy. Vicious cycle.
Curious as to how the inventory shortage will work out. Is this a bubble that will pop once more homes hit the market, foreclosures resume, or interest rates increase? Or is there just not enough inventory to meet the growing population?
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Apr 4, 2021 7:44:32 GMT -5
North NJ yes prices going up to even more outrageous prices. If there are any houses for even $350,000 that’s rare and a bargain and multiple offers .Rents going up too Worried that our town property taxes will go up even higher with RE prices rising. Now we pay little more than $16,000/year and we live in a lower tax county. Closer in to NYC property taxes maybe 25% higher We’re nuts to live here with miserable winter and HCOL but close to family and love living on a lake and near the fabulous Jersey shore
Lots of people moving to Jersey from NYC . People are working from home and online school and not liking the small expensive apartments. Crime is rising that affects even the formerly safe areas like upper west side and east side. The city took over hotels in nice areas and using them for homeless. The people aren’t allowed to stay during the day in the hotel so roaming the local streets and harrasing people. Crime increasing in subways and the big train stations, not good at all
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2021 8:05:38 GMT -5
North NJ yes prices going up to even more outrageous prices. If there are any houses for even $350,000 that’s rare and a bargain and multiple offers .Rents going up too Worried that our town property taxes will go up even higher with RE prices rising. Now we pay little more than $16,000/year and we live in a lower tax county. Closer in to NYC property taxes maybe 25% higher We’re nuts to live here with miserable winter and HCOL but close to family and love living on a lake and near the fabulous Jersey shore. I just looked up my old house in Wyckoff, in Bergen County. Little 3-BR postwar tract home, with swimming pool. Estimated value $920,000 (I sold for $560K in 2003), property taxes $16,000/year. Dayum. Glad I'm outta there. Our county is doing a re-evaluation this year and I'm bracing myself for the impact- I know market values have gone up. Two years ago they did one and it inflated the values so much (mine went up 40%) for so many people that they were deluged with appeals and had to roll it back and cap it at "only" 25% increases. It just doesn't seem right that they automatically get more $$ to spend because of changes in the real estate market. I know the opposite is true as well but it doesn't seem to happen as often.
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Apr 4, 2021 8:05:47 GMT -5
The housing prices in NW Arkansas have sky-rocketed. When I had the realtor here last week, my house has gone for $230k for 1750 SF to $350k. If you list your house, be ready to have it sold within 12-24 hours.
Now Ms Rigby: gardening help please. I bought a potted lavender plant at Walmart yesterday.....where should it go? I also want mini-knock out roses in an area that gets half sun/shade. I know hydrangea don't like sun so they would be planted in between mini roses .
BG (lady with a brown thumb)
Another issue: I had my beautiful Sunset maple tree removed due to it's rampant appetite to the roots going straight to the foundation of the house. I have 1 year to replace it. Around the tree are 6 dwarf crepe myrtle that I want the landscaper to remove as they don't do much......any ideas for replacement? I also wanted to put hosts in front of the roses that are in the front of the house...my neighbor hollered don't do it, they have to be divided....but they are so pretty
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Apr 4, 2021 8:26:45 GMT -5
We're about an hour outside of Dallas. Housing ;prices have exploded here as well. We constantly get phone calls and mail from people wanting to buy our house. The value has almost doubled since we bought it seven years ago. Housing is so tight there's a 5,000 house development going in and so far they're sold out on what is currently being built. My niece and her husband were looking into the complex to buy and have decided to stay where they are for a while. They've only been in their house for three years and could sell it for a profit.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Apr 4, 2021 8:36:24 GMT -5
My house has actually gone down since I bought it in July but it's not in any sort of "hot" area. It's a 1950s post-war track home that looks like so many others in a poverty to working-class level neighborhood. Houses run for less than $150,000. But...downtown Indianapolis...oh, yeah...lots of over-priced homes. You can see it here. Homes that were bought for $50-$150 getting flipped into half mil $ homes. Then there's the $2M condo on Mass Ave. It's ridiculous. I was talking to my dad a couple weeks ago--they live in the Reno, NV area--and he said the builders out there are starting to offer houses w/o garages to keep costs down and the houses are still starting at $250k for a small building of just four walls and a door. I exaggerate, but you get what I mean: not big but still quite expensive.
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bobosensei
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Post by bobosensei on Apr 4, 2021 9:03:22 GMT -5
I bought in 2018 for 299,900, and didn't realize at the time the boom that was coming to the area. A new express lane opened up meaning that for a few bucks you can get to downtown Atlanta in about 25 minutes even in peak traffic instead of 45-90 minutes. Tons of new subdivisions have been built in the last couple years and many more slated. The prices are starting at 400k for homes so close to the next one you and your neighbor could reach out the window and touch hands. That is ridiculous for being so far outside of metro Atlanta. According to zillow and other online sources my house is worth 380-390k now. I don't know how much is covid stripping inventory and driving values up or the fact that it is hard to find a house on more than a .10-.15 acre out here now.
Since I'm a fully remote worker again I've been thinking of selling and moving further out to the "country" where I could get more house for my money. But then I think that the house will keep going up in value where I am and as much as I hate the traffic and extra stoplights, I'm not driving very much anyway.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 4, 2021 12:00:19 GMT -5
It’s gone nuts here. This house is nearly 4x what TD bought it for in 1998. We get calls all the time about if we want to sell. It would be interesting to take the money and run, but there is no place we can downsize to in the area we would want to live.
Hell, we couldn’t find a 2 BR condo in this city what he paid for this house now!
The house my sister bought last May in Minneapolis is up over $50k from when she bought it.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Apr 4, 2021 12:43:00 GMT -5
The housing market has gone crazy here! I cannot believe what our house is valued at now, much less houses further out from the city. There is NO WAY most working folks around here can afford the sticker price of $400,000 or higher that is common now for new construction. I can see a lot of foreclosures in the future, but that's JMHO.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Apr 4, 2021 12:53:30 GMT -5
Pink Cashmere, FWIW: you (generic you) have to choose your words carefully to not sound racist when talking about local or specific real estate areas and trends. Segregation was pretty much built into where people live (and sometimes work). Income and type of work one does is also built into it. When I started looking at real estate for "fun and profit" in 2007/2008 and then after the crash (what neighborhoods/areas would "revive" when the housing market "came back") I "discovered" the ugly truth about housing and segregation. And about the way people talk about real estate and even neighborhoods (doesn't matter if it's a predominantly brown/black neighborhood of 600K houses or a predominantly white neighborhood of 600K houses - they are spoken of differently).
But, to your question about the "housing market": TLDR: my local area has surpassed the high prices of the real estate bubble in 2005. I can not afford to buy a house on my side of my suburb - I can afford to buy a "fixer upper" or small "fixed" house on the other side. I'm single with a high income (well above median income for my suburb). My suburb is dense urban (50K people in 3 square miles) My neighborhood/suburb (where I live) is seeing skyrocketing prices. I live on the "nicer/more wealthy" south side (not really white anymore but still filled with high income professionals the houses here were built on bigger lots and were often "custom" and close to the train that takes you to the City. This area/houses were originally marketed to and built for "professionals" working in the City who could afford to live further from the City. the train services all the nicer communities further away from the City). I live in a house built during the post WWII boom - as houses started filling the open fields around the "expensive" houses. I could not afford to buy my house at this point (the same thing happened in 2005/2006 when prices skyrocketed). Houses here are 500K and up.
The north side of my suburb is seeing a bigger rise in prices than the 2005/2006 market highs (and they were pretty gosh darn high!). The north side has lots of nice houses - almost all Post WWII houses on smaller lots and often blocks of apartment buildings. The original owners worked locally in the industrial businesses. This area is closer to a main expressway and "Electric trains". The north side's big draw is it's "walk ability" and the access to the trains and expressway. Both sides benefit from the proximity to the City. Houses here are being offered at 350K and up.
Houses are selling like hot cakes on both sides. I'm not seeing a big difference in "income/lifestyle" of the people buying on my side (I'm a Single Income no Kids with a high income - I can't match the lifestyle of a couple with two high incomes with or without kids). "Gentrification" on the north side started happening slowly about 10 years ago. I'm guessing now it's under full steam and is unstoppable. Housing prices have jumped up more than 150K in the past 3 years. I'm not sure wages have gone up all that much - hence full steam ahead gentrification.
TLDR?: I can't afford to buy a "primary" home - much less an investment property in the areas my affluent friends live (double incomes) - but then I couldn't afford it in the past (maybe right after the crash). On the plus side their areas have returned to the highs of the real estate bubble in 2005/2006 when they bought houses.
Areas where my friends live that are local: I did a quick check of their Zillow estimates and took a look at what's sold recently in their areas. Their homes have Zillow estimates over the 2005/2006 highs (I'm sure some of my friends who bought at the top of the bubble are relieved that their houses are FINALLY worth the same or more than they paid.) Houses are selling in the zillow estimate range.
Local real estate in another state where my "millennial" relatives live - skyrocketing prices and new construction every where (my relative and his wife are happy they bought a house 3 years ago - they couldn't afford their subdivision today... they'd be looking at the further out "new construction" houses OR looking at a smaller/older house in an area that's on the cusp of gentrify-ing. I wish I had bought a "downtown condo" 5 years ago - the prices have doubled.
TLDR?: I can't afford to buy a "primary" home - much less an investment property in any of the 2 states I 'watch' real estate. I could have afforded to buy investment properties there 1 or more years ago.
In a Florida where my rental properties are: I get 3 calls and 3 texts per day from agents/house buyers who want to buy my rental townhouse. They are just starting to ask about the house I purchased over a year ago. I use to get calls/texts every 6 months. Now it's nonstop. The prices in Florida aren't at bubble highs yet - but they are getting there. I can't sell the townhouse and "upgrade" to a nicer/bigger rental property without taking a substantial mortgage. There's also the risk that on a more expensive rental -that the higher rents won't stay high if there's a down turn. If there's a downturn in rents I will be fine with the current townhouse.
The rental property house I purchased a little over a year ago - also skyrocketed in value - zillow says it's worth 20K more than I paid. There are a lot of new construction houses and apartments buildings local to these two properties. I'm a little skeptical of the buildings they are being offered for sky high prices (the houses 50K or higher more than my house (even though similar size), the townhouses 50K or more than my townhouse (even though similar size/amenities)) they are more wood than cinder block and many of them are two stories. It's Florida. When I looked at older more wood than cinderblock construction "townhouses" or houses... wood doesn't do well in Florida. There's more "maintenance" and more "expenses" involved with it's upkeep. And if it's not taken care off - it goes bad quickly.
Over all, I'm seeing what I feel are Bubbly Prices for housing. I kind of wonder if it's the low interest rates that pushing prices up or if incomes have gone up or if people are 'trading up' by taking the "equity" from their current home - using that as a down payment on a much more expensive home and basically keeping the same "mortgage" payment. That last thing begs the question of who is able to buy their 'old' home... if prices have gone up so much?
I'm seeing the "build fast and cheap" happening in Florida (again - it happened in 2003 thru 2006 there).
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Apr 4, 2021 13:41:12 GMT -5
RE is outrageous here. Northern CA. and it has been for a long time. I used to say I would not be able to buy my own condo despite getting decent raises. For the last five or more years it has become I would not be able to rent my own place and my salary has doubled since I bought it.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Apr 4, 2021 13:41:55 GMT -5
I just think it’s all interesting.
So do I ....... We bought ($500K) this home in the Phx area in 2007 just at the top of the market. Almost 14 years ago. Just since the first of the year has Zillow said our home has gotten to our purchase price, and now it's $50K more.
We get calls all the time about selling this home and my standard answer is $2.5M in cash at the front door. If anyone wants to give me that much, we'll move tomorrow.
Homes in this area sell within a week of listing. Have friends with a condo that listed it on Thursday and by Saturday they had 4 offers, one of which was cash for the asking price.
I'm thinking as fast as this is going up, the fall will be just as fast.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Apr 4, 2021 13:45:35 GMT -5
I don't think we will see the massive number of foreclosures when this "bubble" pops or if it just slowly deflates. I know that banks are still making loans with less than 20% down, but I think the banks are still verifying income AND actually looking at the houses to determine value. I'm not seeing any "uninhabitable houses" being mortgaged as if it was a top dollar updated, habitable house. This was a common in my suburb during the last real estate bubble.
I guess that if someone buys a house and can afford the mortgage payment - if the market deflates slowly or even pops - as long as they keep their job and can keep making the payments they will. I don't think some who is employed is going to walk away from their house if they become "underwater" on it especially if the mortgage payment remains "reasonable" - as in they can't rent a place to live for less than their monthly commitment on their house (even if the house is worth less than they paid for it).
Remember - many of the foreclosures of the real estate crash were due to long term job loss OR if jobs were maintained - It was better to let a property go to foreclosure if one put 0% down on a say 200K property (with a 50K income) that was bought with the plan to refinance in a "few months" to get rid of the HELOC AND to have a more reasonable monthly payment in light of one's 50K income Especially if you had 80/20 loan and the Heloc (the 20 part) adjustable rate adjusted UP. And then there were the speculators - buy a house - and then resell it in 3 or 4 months for a big profit (the uninhabitable house I purchased after the crash - when thru 3 buyers in the 1.5 years leading up to the crash. It was uninhabitable at the time it was being sold for top dollar - the lenders apparently never sent an appraiser to go inside the house or to walk around the outside of the house. Old info on Zillow was good enough. )
Of course, for high income owners with very expensive houses - maybe walking away from an "underwater" 1 million dollar debt is in their best interest. Perhaps they can rent a place to live that's nice enough for less.
I also wonder how many properties are being purchased by high income 'speculators' - I keep reading (and hearing in Real Life) "maybe I should buy a second home or a vacation home - and rent it out - real estate is only going up!" Someone who's spending 500K or more on a "second home" they plan to rent out or AirBnB may find it's not so much fun to do - especially if the 500K house drops back down to $350 it should be valued at.... these kinds of investors may walk away - or just settle for selling at a loss.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Apr 4, 2021 13:52:35 GMT -5
And one last thought: I keep hearing how "cities" are being abandoned because workers will be able to Work From Home forever into the future. I'm not seeing it. I like city living - I would happily snap up a condo in any of the 4 areas I watch in my local "city" - should the prices start falling - I'm not really seeing a "plunge" in prices. The prices may not be going up as fast - but they definitely aren't falling. And that same thing is happening in other cities in other States than I keep an eye on.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Apr 4, 2021 14:14:01 GMT -5
I would give anything to be able to afford to move back to Colorado. As it is, I would have been forced to leave because of the high rental prices had I not chosen to move back a few years earlier.
I would want to return to Boulder where 450 sq ft condos are going for $300,000 that are 40 years old. There are tiny condos for over $1 million, too.
I can't afford any of the homes I owned in Colorado nor could I rent them. None were a stretch financially when I owned them.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Apr 4, 2021 15:07:50 GMT -5
It's ridiculous like a lot of other areas in SoCal particularly those closer to the coast. Low rates and low inventory have helped push prices to the point where the median home price is 10x the median household income in our city. In a regular market I would expect a correction at some point especially once the foreclosure moratorium ends but who knows how that will play out and what steps the federal/state government will take. It's never been cheap here but a house in our neighborhood is coming on the market soon and it will sell for 3x+ what it was last sold for in 2000 while it will most likely sell within a week and have multiple offers. We would like to make the move from our town house to a house but I can't justify it with prices where they are, what your money gets you and considering what we pay all in our place now. We bought our place in 2012 and could sell it for 70%+ more than we paid which is just crazy to me but it is what it is.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Apr 4, 2021 16:16:26 GMT -5
Part of the reason my niece and her husband are looking to move is that his job will not be in an office again. His company is going to keep everyone in his department working remotely. They've set record production multiple times this past year and corporate says they're not going to mess with a good formula. Niece's job will stay mostly remote. She may need to go into the office once a week for team meetings, but they may decide to stay with their current process. It's working and corporate can sell off a lot of valuable real estate f they don't need the offices.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Apr 4, 2021 16:31:25 GMT -5
Unfortunately not everyone working remotely is able to do that. I work for a smaller company and if I moved to certain states while working remotely that would create nexus for them and the need to file a tax return in that state. If someone works for a large company with workers in various states and countries that may not be as much of an issue. I wonder if some companies who have been fine with remote workers due to the pandemic realize the tax consequences that could arise to doing that long term. Our east coast workers kind of got a break in 2020 as states they lived in didn’t go after them but that changed in 2021 with the pandemic and remote work being extended.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Apr 4, 2021 16:34:30 GMT -5
Both of them work for corporations based in Texas, so they're good to keep working from home. Corporate has already had to deal with remote workers and various state taxes. These are major corporations with locations all over the states.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 4, 2021 17:51:50 GMT -5
And one last thought: I keep hearing how "cities" are being abandoned because workers will be able to Work From Home forever into the future. I'm not seeing it. I like city living - I would happily snap up a condo in any of the 4 areas I watch in my local "city" - should the prices start falling - I'm not really seeing a "plunge" in prices. The prices may not be going up as fast - but they definitely aren't falling. And that same thing is happening in other cities in other States than I keep an eye on. This is largely why our housing has gone so nuts. We are far enough from big city that it is not an easy commute, but it is doable occasionally. There are at least 2 houses on this road where the new owners are WFH since they sold their homes in Seattle (that I know of). Our Next Door site at least once/k has someone introducing themselves as having sold out their city home and bought up here. It’s frequent enough that the natives are rumbling as to how fast it’s driving up house prices.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Apr 4, 2021 18:06:33 GMT -5
The villa we bought as snowbirds in late 2018 has increased significantly in value. We increased our replacement insurance.
I don't know about our summer home. We've had it 38 years. I mentioned it needed flooring upgrading. H. said he would take the advice of GrSIL to just move into new. My thought. And where is this money coming from.
Oh, H. also said he'd go to sunrise church services then didn't. I fell back to sleep, which is very odd for me. So that is doubtful.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2021 18:36:04 GMT -5
Pink Cashmere, FWIW: you (generic you) have to choose your words carefully to not sound racist when talking about local or specific real estate areas and trends. Segregation was pretty much built into where people live (and sometimes work). Income and type of work one does is also built into it. When I started looking at real estate for "fun and profit" in 2007/2008 and then after the crash (what neighborhoods/areas would "revive" when the housing market "came back") I "discovered" the ugly truth about housing and segregation. And about the way people talk about real estate and even neighborhoods (doesn't matter if it's a predominantly brown/black neighborhood of 600K houses or a predominantly white neighborhood of 600K houses - they are spoken of differently). I understand the points you make, and I understand that you were speaking to a general “you”, but I’m not sure if your comments were because my OP did indeed sound racist. If it did, I offer a sincere apology to anyone that I may have offended. I’ve lived in the same metropolitan area my whole life and am well aware of the trends that have occurred during my lifetime, some of which are just to move to “better” areas, probably without much regard to what neighbors look like. Such as the tendency of people that were born and raised in the southern and western parts of the city, plus certain parts of the middle, to move east and southeast, and people from the northern parts of the city to move northeast or east, but not southeast. Aside from that, “White flight” is real here, and if I knew where and how to gather the info, I’m absolutely sure I could provide the data to back that up. The people that are part of the gentrification happening in the downtown and surrounding areas, I’m not sure where they come from. I just know from observation that they appear to be the same type of people that had been fleeing to the suburbs for decades previously. I can see the difference even where I work, which is near the downtown area. I’ve worked in that location over 20 years. When I started working there, it was NOT a “good” area. But over the last several years, new construction has been constant and we started seeing white people riding bikes and jogging past the building. Our officers still have to run crackheads and homeless people out of the lobby, but the area is clearly changing. The presence of white people being out and about is a clear indicator. That may sound crazy or even racist, but it’s just facts for where I live. If white people are out and about, going about their lives, even comfortable walking and jogging or whatever, that area is or will eventually be an area where foolishness is not tolerated. FWIW, the city I'm referring to is Memphis, TN. I’ve lived in the city or the surrounding area my whole life. There are still issues related to race here. Even if a person lands here without knowing the history, they probably quickly realize that there are still many issues around here. Tennesseer could maybe vouch for that. Sorry Tenn for putting you on the spot, no hard feelings if you prefer not to respond. Anyway, all that to say, I’m not trying to be an ass, and definitely not a racist. I’m simply stating facts and what I’ve observed during my lifetime as far as who lives where and moves about in different parts of this area. Personally, I don’t care what my neighbors look like as long as they aren’t assholes. I’m not even upset about the demographics changing where my other house is. Especially if the changes mean more money for me if I sell, or increased fair market rent if I keep it as a rental. I have reservations about investors buying up the communities, and would not sell to an investor if I could avoid it, even if it cost me a few thousand dollars. Other than that, show me the money!
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giramomma
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 11:25:27 GMT -5
Posts: 21,302
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Post by giramomma on Apr 4, 2021 18:54:02 GMT -5
So, I was curious. Houses in our area are ridiculous. One house we can walk to from ours sold for 210K in 2016, and the listing price is over 300K. Median family income is 85K. I suppose a 300K house is doable on that income as long as you aren't paying for daycare. In my parts, infant daycare is now running very close to 2K a month in a good center.
But, if you have a 3 year old and a 6 month old, even inhome...that's at least close to 2K a month. Assuming that one is putting away a decent amount for retirement and has access to super cheap health care through work, one is still looking at bringing in 5K a month. 2K is now gone to daycare. That's 3K left for everything else. I certainly wouldn't want a 1500/month mortgage payment.
I think eventually, again, we will have a bubble pop. Housing prices vs. income just isn't sustainable long term.
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Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,436
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 4, 2021 19:10:56 GMT -5
Pink Cashmere, FWIW: you (generic you) have to choose your words carefully to not sound racist when talking about local or specific real estate areas and trends. Segregation was pretty much built into where people live (and sometimes work). Income and type of work one does is also built into it. When I started looking at real estate for "fun and profit" in 2007/2008 and then after the crash (what neighborhoods/areas would "revive" when the housing market "came back") I "discovered" the ugly truth about housing and segregation. And about the way people talk about real estate and even neighborhoods (doesn't matter if it's a predominantly brown/black neighborhood of 600K houses or a predominantly white neighborhood of 600K houses - they are spoken of differently). I understand the points you make, and I understand that you were speaking to a general “you”, but I’m not sure if your comments were because my OP did indeed sound racist. If it did, I offer a sincere apology to anyone that I may have offended. I’ve lived in the same metropolitan area my whole life and am well aware of the trends that have occurred during my lifetime, some of which are just to move to “better” areas, probably without much regard to what neighbors look like. Such as the tendency of people that were born and raised in the southern and western parts of the city, plus certain parts of the middle, to move east and southeast, and people from the northern parts of the city to move northeast or east, but not southeast. Aside from that, “White flight” is real here, and if I knew where and how to gather the info, I’m absolutely sure I could provide the data to back that up. The people that are part of the gentrification happening in the downtown and surrounding areas, I’m not sure where they come from. I just know from observation that they appear to be the same type of people that had been fleeing to the suburbs for decades previously. I can see the difference even where I work, which is near the downtown area. I’ve worked in that location over 20 years. When I started working there, it was NOT a “good” area. But over the last several years, new construction has been constant and we started seeing white people riding bikes and jogging past the building. Our officers still have to run crackheads and homeless people out of the lobby, but the area is clearly changing. The presence of white people being out and about is a clear indicator. That may sound crazy or even racist, but it’s just facts for where I live. If white people are out and about, going about their lives, even comfortable walking and jogging or whatever, that area is or will eventually be an area where foolishness is not tolerated. FWIW, the city I'm referring to is Memphis, TN. I’ve lived in the city or the surrounding area my whole life. There are still issues related to race here. Even if a person lands here without knowing the history, they probably quickly realize that there are still many issues around here. Tennesseer could maybe vouch for that. Sorry Tenn for putting you on the spot, no hard feelings if you prefer not to respond. Anyway, all that to say, I’m not trying to be an ass, and definitely not a racist. I’m simply stating facts and what I’ve observed during my lifetime as far as who lives where and moves about in different parts of this area. Personally, I don’t care what my neighbors look like as long as they aren’t assholes. I’m not even upset about the demographics changing where my other house is. Especially if the changes mean more money for me if I sell, or increased fair market rent if I keep it as a rental. I have reservations about investors buying up the communities, and would not sell to an investor if I could avoid it, even if it cost me a few thousand dollars. Other than that, show me the money! One example:Collierville, TN is a suburb of Memphis. Below is a list of it population growth over the years. Most of it can be attributed to white flight. I have friends who moved to Collierville for that exact reason: 1950 1,153 10.7% 1960 2,020 75.2% 1970 3,651 80.7% 1980 7,839 114.7% 1990 14,427 84.0% 2000 31,872 120.9% 2010 43,965 37.9% 2019 (est.) 51,040 16.1%
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Deleted
Joined: Apr 26, 2024 3:55:12 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2021 19:48:19 GMT -5
I understand the points you make, and I understand that you were speaking to a general “you”, but I’m not sure if your comments were because my OP did indeed sound racist. If it did, I offer a sincere apology to anyone that I may have offended. I’ve lived in the same metropolitan area my whole life and am well aware of the trends that have occurred during my lifetime, some of which are just to move to “better” areas, probably without much regard to what neighbors look like. Such as the tendency of people that were born and raised in the southern and western parts of the city, plus certain parts of the middle, to move east and southeast, and people from the northern parts of the city to move northeast or east, but not southeast. Aside from that, “White flight” is real here, and if I knew where and how to gather the info, I’m absolutely sure I could provide the data to back that up. The people that are part of the gentrification happening in the downtown and surrounding areas, I’m not sure where they come from. I just know from observation that they appear to be the same type of people that had been fleeing to the suburbs for decades previously. I can see the difference even where I work, which is near the downtown area. I’ve worked in that location over 20 years. When I started working there, it was NOT a “good” area. But over the last several years, new construction has been constant and we started seeing white people riding bikes and jogging past the building. Our officers still have to run crackheads and homeless people out of the lobby, but the area is clearly changing. The presence of white people being out and about is a clear indicator. That may sound crazy or even racist, but it’s just facts for where I live. If white people are out and about, going about their lives, even comfortable walking and jogging or whatever, that area is or will eventually be an area where foolishness is not tolerated. FWIW, the city I'm referring to is Memphis, TN. I’ve lived in the city or the surrounding area my whole life. There are still issues related to race here. Even if a person lands here without knowing the history, they probably quickly realize that there are still many issues around here. Tennesseer could maybe vouch for that. Sorry Tenn for putting you on the spot, no hard feelings if you prefer not to respond. Anyway, all that to say, I’m not trying to be an ass, and definitely not a racist. I’m simply stating facts and what I’ve observed during my lifetime as far as who lives where and moves about in different parts of this area. Personally, I don’t care what my neighbors look like as long as they aren’t assholes. I’m not even upset about the demographics changing where my other house is. Especially if the changes mean more money for me if I sell, or increased fair market rent if I keep it as a rental. I have reservations about investors buying up the communities, and would not sell to an investor if I could avoid it, even if it cost me a few thousand dollars. Other than that, show me the money! Collierville, TN is a suburb of Memphis. Below is a list of it population growth over the years. Most of it can be attributed to white flight: 1950 1,153 10.7% 1960 2,020 75.2% 1970 3,651 80.7% 1980 7,839 114.7% 1990 14,427 84.0% 2000 31,872 120.9% 2010 43,965 37.9% 2019 (est.) 51,040 16.1% Thank you for chiming in! What I ASSume the “white flight” folks don’t realize is that minorities desire the same standards of living that they do, so those of us that have the means are just going to follow them, chasing the same dreams and ideals lol. In my younger years, I was around a lot of “dope boys”. They were making fast money, and a lot of it, and guess what the smarter ones were doing. They didn’t want the heat where they lived, so they were some of the first ones to move to the suburbs, into the “white” communities. I know this for FACT, because of the people I use to be around when I was younger. All of it is just interesting to me. Like I said before, I don’t really care what my neighbors look like or even how they make their money, as long as they and their lifestyles don’t infringe on my right to enjoy my own property.
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tskeeter
Junior Associate
Joined: Mar 20, 2011 19:37:45 GMT -5
Posts: 6,831
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Post by tskeeter on Apr 4, 2021 20:11:50 GMT -5
I think that many, many cities have a shortage of affordable housing. Where I live, the median home price has reached $500,000.
A number of things probably contribute to the shortage of affordable housing. First is probably the low profit margins for developers of affordable housing vs. more expensive homes. What would you rather do? Make $100K building 10 affordable houses? Or make $100K building four more upscale homes? Seems to me that the return/effort ratio is a lot better on the upscale homes.
Another factor is the cost of government fees and permits. In our area, based on my best efforts to analyze local fees and charges, government fees and permits on a $250K home would be about 22% of the cost of the home. And that is in addition to developer constructed streets, sewer systems, water systems, street lights, parks, and the like. Since several of the fees are per unit, not based on the cost to build the home, as the selling price of a home increases, the proportion of the construction cost represented by government fee decreases. About six months ago, a person who wanted to build a number of affordable housing units had to reduce the scale of the project he was planning by 25% because he couldn’t afford the fees that would be imposed on the number of units he wanted to build. It’s easy for politicians to wail about greedy developers who won’t build affordable housing. But I think the politicians need to look in the mirror and ask themselves how much they contribute to the affordable housing crisis.
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Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 4, 2021 20:29:06 GMT -5
Housing prices have sky rocketed in my area since things opened up after our Covid shutdown. According to a few realtor acquaintances I have, there are a few reasons :1. Low interest rates 2. Low inventory 3. Flight from NYC
I’m a real estate investor and a 2-unit I bought 3 years ago is now 50% more (based on comps). That is also due to investors in NY are now investing here. Swooping in and paying cash, way over asking price.
It is causing major issues for lower income people here. Rents are going through the roof and salaries just aren’t there.
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Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,365
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Post by Tiny on Apr 4, 2021 21:13:24 GMT -5
Pink Cashmere, FWIW: you (generic you) have to choose your words carefully to not sound racist when talking about local or specific real estate areas and trends. Segregation was pretty much built into where people live (and sometimes work). Income and type of work one does is also built into it. When I started looking at real estate for "fun and profit" in 2007/2008 and then after the crash (what neighborhoods/areas would "revive" when the housing market "came back") I "discovered" the ugly truth about housing and segregation. And about the way people talk about real estate and even neighborhoods (doesn't matter if it's a predominantly brown/black neighborhood of 600K houses or a predominantly white neighborhood of 600K houses - they are spoken of differently). I understand the points you make, and I understand that you were speaking to a general “you”, but I’m not sure if your comments were because my OP did indeed sound racist. If it did, I offer a sincere apology to anyone that I may have offended. I’ve lived in the same metropolitan area my whole life and am well aware of the trends that have occurred during my lifetime, some of which are just to move to “better” areas, probably without much regard to what neighbors look like. Such as the tendency of people that were born and raised in the southern and western parts of the city, plus certain parts of the middle, to move east and southeast, and people from the northern parts of the city to move northeast or east, but not southeast. Aside from that, “White flight” is real here, and if I knew where and how to gather the info, I’m absolutely sure I could provide the data to back that up. The people that are part of the gentrification happening in the downtown and surrounding areas, I’m not sure where they come from. I just know from observation that they appear to be the same type of people that had been fleeing to the suburbs for decades previously. I can see the difference even where I work, which is near the downtown area. I’ve worked in that location over 20 years. When I started working there, it was NOT a “good” area. But over the last several years, new construction has been constant and we started seeing white people riding bikes and jogging past the building. Our officers still have to run crackheads and homeless people out of the lobby, but the area is clearly changing. The presence of white people being out and about is a clear indicator. That may sound crazy or even racist, but it’s just facts for where I live. If white people are out and about, going about their lives, even comfortable walking and jogging or whatever, that area is or will eventually be an area where foolishness is not tolerated. FWIW, the city I'm referring to is Memphis, TN. I’ve lived in the city or the surrounding area my whole life. There are still issues related to race here. Even if a person lands here without knowing the history, they probably quickly realize that there are still many issues around here. Tennesseer could maybe vouch for that. Sorry Tenn for putting you on the spot, no hard feelings if you prefer not to respond. Anyway, all that to say, I’m not trying to be an ass, and definitely not a racist. I’m simply stating facts and what I’ve observed during my lifetime as far as who lives where and moves about in different parts of this area. Personally, I don’t care what my neighbors look like as long as they aren’t assholes. I’m not even upset about the demographics changing where my other house is. Especially if the changes mean more money for me if I sell, or increased fair market rent if I keep it as a rental. I have reservations about investors buying up the communities, and would not sell to an investor if I could avoid it, even if it cost me a few thousand dollars. Other than that, show me the money! Oh no! I didn't think you sounded racist... when talking about real estate there's often an undercurrent of racism (or discrimination (in income levels or jobs) ) that people seem to not be aware of? or maybe they just "look the other way" or are uncomfortable with because they are aware of the "racist/discriminatory history" or the actual current racist/discriminatory qualities of the way we deal with real estate. I thought it was good that you were observing and pointing out that the way we all talk about this is rather filled with landmines - and that it's a difficult topic to "just talk about". I should have been more clear in my intent and what I was trying to convey. I need to work on this.
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