billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 2, 2023 0:12:21 GMT -5
Proud Boys leader Joe Biggs sentenced to 17 years in January 6 caseA leader of the Proud Boys who led the far-right organization’s infamous march to the US Capitol on January 6, 2021, has been sentenced to 17 years in prison – among the longest sentence handed down yet for a convicted rioter. Joe Biggs was convicted by a Washington, DC jury of several charges including seditious conspiracy for attempting to forcibly prevent the peaceful transfer of power from then-President Donald Trump to Joe Biden after the 2020 election. “Our Constitution and laws give you so many important rights that Americans have fought and died for and that you yourself put on a uniform to defend,” District Judge Timothy Kelly said in handing down the sentence. “People around the world would give anything for these rights.” Rest of article here: Proud Boys leader Joe Biggs sentenced to 17 years in January 6 case I agree with the sentence that was handed down. No way could he have claimed he was just peacefully protesting. All of the people who crashed the capitol should be jailed. They should have been shot before they even got into the capitol. A strong violent reaction by authorities would have played into Trump's hands. It would have lead to an extended delay in the vote. Drawing the line at the inner chamber, shooting just the one insurrectionist worked well. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2023 4:36:45 GMT -5
not enough. i was liking the 33 year guidance. I was listening to some talking heads this am discussing this. Yes they should have gotten the 33 years, but the lawyers for these cases made the argument that these guys felt they were in a patriotic militia and they had been charged by the president of the United States to defend the country by preventing a false president from taking office. From a military point of view they were following orders from a guy who is now flying around the country, campaigning for president, eating at deluxe banquets, so, at least, completely unpunished. I can kind of see they felt like they were following orders from a guy who was unfortunately lying to them. So I’m ok with 17 years. I’m really, really counting on the Liar in Chief finally experiencing some jail time, though. Look how many minion lives he ruined, and he hasn’t once said he regretted what happened to them. the militia movement is not under orders from the president. let me put this another way. the president serves ME. that's right. Biden, Trump, etc- I am their boss, not the other way around. they can't order me to do SHIT. if the relationship were any different, i would renounce my citizenship in a heartbeat. so, the fact that the militia movement is CONFUSED about this does not make me feel any compassion for them. i would feel more compassion for your standard MAGA or cult follower that was NOT taking up arms against the rest of us. so no, these guys should get the harshest punishment out there, imo. i would have been happier with LWOPP, but 33 years would do rather nicely for these mid-life crisis "patriots". |
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Sept 2, 2023 5:00:52 GMT -5
I agree with the sentence that was handed down. No way could he have claimed he was just peacefully protesting. All of the people who crashed the capitol should be jailed. They should have been shot before they even got into the capitol. A strong violent reaction by authorities would have played into Trump's hands. It would have lead to an extended delay in the vote. Drawing the line at the inner chamber, shooting just the one insurrectionist worked well. I agree. I think that is why he waited so long to call them off. He was watching and waiting for the violence to erupt and all the glory that they were fighting for me! me! me! |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 2, 2023 10:51:58 GMT -5
Proud Boys leader Joe Biggs sentenced to 17 years in January 6 caseA leader of the Proud Boys who led the far-right organization’s infamous march to the US Capitol on January 6, 2021, has been sentenced to 17 years in prison – among the longest sentence handed down yet for a convicted rioter. Joe Biggs was convicted by a Washington, DC jury of several charges including seditious conspiracy for attempting to forcibly prevent the peaceful transfer of power from then-President Donald Trump to Joe Biden after the 2020 election. “Our Constitution and laws give you so many important rights that Americans have fought and died for and that you yourself put on a uniform to defend,” District Judge Timothy Kelly said in handing down the sentence. “People around the world would give anything for these rights.” Rest of article here: Proud Boys leader Joe Biggs sentenced to 17 years in January 6 case I agree with the sentence that was handed down. No way could he have claimed he was just peacefully protesting. All of the people who crashed the capitol should be jailed. They should have been shot before they even got into the capitol. The Proud Boys are now Convict Boys. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 2, 2023 11:15:47 GMT -5
Proud Boys leader Joe Biggs sentenced to 17 years in January 6 caseA leader of the Proud Boys who led the far-right organization’s infamous march to the US Capitol on January 6, 2021, has been sentenced to 17 years in prison – among the longest sentence handed down yet for a convicted rioter. Joe Biggs was convicted by a Washington, DC jury of several charges including seditious conspiracy for attempting to forcibly prevent the peaceful transfer of power from then-President Donald Trump to Joe Biden after the 2020 election. “Our Constitution and laws give you so many important rights that Americans have fought and died for and that you yourself put on a uniform to defend,” District Judge Timothy Kelly said in handing down the sentence. “People around the world would give anything for these rights.” Rest of article here: Proud Boys leader Joe Biggs sentenced to 17 years in January 6 case I agree with the sentence that was handed down. No way could he have claimed he was just peacefully protesting. All of the people who crashed the capitol should be jailed. They should have been shot before they even got into the capitol. I like to really look at details on things like this. Is the idea that there should have been machine gun nests on the landings at the top of the Capitol steps or perhaps lines of law enforcement/military forces with rifles at the ready to start shooting when people starting coming through the barriers surrounding the building? Or should the line been at the doors and windows, shooting anyone if they attempted to come through? |
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 2, 2023 14:19:37 GMT -5
I agree with the sentence that was handed down. No way could he have claimed he was just peacefully protesting. All of the people who crashed the capitol should be jailed. They should have been shot before they even got into the capitol. I like to really look at details on things like this. Is the idea that there should have been machine gun nests on the landings at the top of the Capitol steps or perhaps lines of law enforcement/military forces with rifles at the ready to start shooting when people starting coming through the barriers surrounding the building? Or should the line been at the doors and windows, shooting anyone if they attempted to come through? I won’t try to advise any particulars as I am not a security professional - but clearly the security was way lacking for what was about to happen. Remember, this was the prep around the Lincoln Memorial after George Floyd. The Lincoln Memorial, although beloved, is just property - there are no law makers or other powerful people in there doing powerful stuff (even if they are not beloved). If there was this kind of showing for Jan 6, the whole day would have gone down very differently.  |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 2, 2023 14:49:27 GMT -5
I like to really look at details on things like this. Is the idea that there should have been machine gun nests on the landings at the top of the Capitol steps or perhaps lines of law enforcement/military forces with rifles at the ready to start shooting when people starting coming through the barriers surrounding the building? Or should the line been at the doors and windows, shooting anyone if they attempted to come through? I won’t try to advise any particulars as I am not a security professional - but clearly the security was way lacking for what was about to happen. Remember, this was the prep around the Lincoln Memorial after George Floyd. The Lincoln Memorial, although beloved, is just property - there are no law makers or other powerful people in there doing powerful stuff (even if they are not beloved). If there was this kind of showing for Jan 6, the whole day would have gone down very differently. Knowing now what ended up happening, there was not adequate security. And no doubt things would have gone differently that day and every day since. Likely MAGA wouldn't have shown its ugly face that day. No second impeachment. I can imagine Trump's speeches ripping on that extreme show of power against ordinary Americans just exercising their Constitutional rights. You know, I think things actually worked out fairly well. |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 2, 2023 15:13:49 GMT -5
I won’t try to advise any particulars as I am not a security professional - but clearly the security was way lacking for what was about to happen. Remember, this was the prep around the Lincoln Memorial after George Floyd. The Lincoln Memorial, although beloved, is just property - there are no law makers or other powerful people in there doing powerful stuff (even if they are not beloved). If there was this kind of showing for Jan 6, the whole day would have gone down very differently. Knowing now what ended up happening, there was not adequate security. And no doubt things would have gone differently that day and every day since. Likely MAGA wouldn't have shown its ugly face that day. No second impeachment. I can imagine Trump's speeches ripping on that extreme show of power against ordinary Americans just exercising their Constitutional rights. You know, I think things actually worked out fairly well. I wouldn’t be so sure yet. Until trump is defeated in 2024, there is a question about how this has worked out |
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 2, 2023 15:36:30 GMT -5
I won’t try to advise any particulars as I am not a security professional - but clearly the security was way lacking for what was about to happen. Remember, this was the prep around the Lincoln Memorial after George Floyd. The Lincoln Memorial, although beloved, is just property - there are no law makers or other powerful people in there doing powerful stuff (even if they are not beloved). If there was this kind of showing for Jan 6, the whole day would have gone down very differently. Knowing now what ended up happening, there was not adequate security. And no doubt things would have gone differently that day and every day since. Likely MAGA wouldn't have shown its ugly face that day. No second impeachment. I can imagine Trump's speeches ripping on that extreme show of power against ordinary Americans just exercising their Constitutional rights. You know, I think things actually worked out fairly well. I have wondered if Jan 6 actually damaged Trump’s popularity among those that liked him that morning. Is there a bunch of people who were just fine until then, and that was when they started to see the light? Or maybe there were people who had supported him but were annoyed by “the big lie” and his actions on Jan 6 was the final straw? If J6 had been controlled by adequate security would more people still be happily in his camp? |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 2, 2023 15:46:14 GMT -5
Knowing now what ended up happening, there was not adequate security. And no doubt things would have gone differently that day and every day since. Likely MAGA wouldn't have shown its ugly face that day. No second impeachment. I can imagine Trump's speeches ripping on that extreme show of power against ordinary Americans just exercising their Constitutional rights. You know, I think things actually worked out fairly well. I have wondered if Jan 6 actually damaged Trump’s popularity among those that liked him that morning. Is there a bunch of people who were just fine until then, and that was when they started to see the light? Or maybe there were people who had supported him but were annoyed by “the big lie” and his actions on Jan 6 was the final straw? If J6 had been controlled by adequate security would more people still be happily in his camp? My answer to those questions is, "Yes". |
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ripvanwinkle
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Post by ripvanwinkle on Sept 2, 2023 19:30:00 GMT -5
I like to really look at details on things like this. Is the idea that there should have been machine gun nests on the landings at the top of the Capitol steps or perhaps lines of law enforcement/military forces with rifles at the ready to start shooting when people starting coming through the barriers surrounding the building? Or should the line been at the doors and windows, shooting anyone if they attempted to come through? I won’t try to advise any particulars as I am not a security professional - but clearly the security was way lacking for what was about to happen. Remember, this was the prep around the Lincoln Memorial after George Floyd. The Lincoln Memorial, although beloved, is just property - there are no law makers or other powerful people in there doing powerful stuff (even if they are not beloved). If there was this kind of showing for Jan 6, the whole day would have gone down very differently. I always wondered the same thing. Since there was credible information that there could be a disturbance why wasn't there more police force there to prevent it? Almost smells like some people in power wanted all this to happen. It would all be a different story if a show of force was present. Makes one wonder.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 2, 2023 20:04:50 GMT -5
I won’t try to advise any particulars as I am not a security professional - but clearly the security was way lacking for what was about to happen. Remember, this was the prep around the Lincoln Memorial after George Floyd. The Lincoln Memorial, although beloved, is just property - there are no law makers or other powerful people in there doing powerful stuff (even if they are not beloved). If there was this kind of showing for Jan 6, the whole day would have gone down very differently. I always wondered the same thing. Since there was credible information that there could be a disturbance why wasn't there more police force there to prevent it? Almost smells like some people in power wanted all this to happen. It would all be a different story if a show of force was present. Makes one wonder.
Yes it would be a different story. But what would that story be? And what would the story be if Trump supporters had simply respected the Constitution. That would have lead to a vastly different story also. What about if Trump had started texting "get out" the minute anyone went in? I am sure his followers would have left. If people remained there would be a case for them being infiltrators. But he chose not to do anything. There is a lot to smell. Most of it has the stink of Trump on it. |
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 2, 2023 20:24:02 GMT -5
I like to really look at details on things like this. Is the idea that there should have been machine gun nests on the landings at the top of the Capitol steps or perhaps lines of law enforcement/military forces with rifles at the ready to start shooting when people starting coming through the barriers surrounding the building? Or should the line been at the doors and windows, shooting anyone if they attempted to come through? I won’t try to advise any particulars as I am not a security professional - but clearly the security was way lacking for what was about to happen. Remember, this was the prep around the Lincoln Memorial after George Floyd. The Lincoln Memorial, although beloved, is just property - there are no law makers or other powerful people in there doing powerful stuff (even if they are not beloved). If there was this kind of showing for Jan 6, the whole day would have gone down very differently. Trump mobilized them because he wanted to stop George Floyd protesters. He wanted his crowd to do his bidding and storm the Capitol. Of course he did not do anything in advance to stop them, he prepped to aim them at the legislators. |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 2, 2023 20:53:28 GMT -5
I won’t try to advise any particulars as I am not a security professional - but clearly the security was way lacking for what was about to happen. Remember, this was the prep around the Lincoln Memorial after George Floyd. The Lincoln Memorial, although beloved, is just property - there are no law makers or other powerful people in there doing powerful stuff (even if they are not beloved). If there was this kind of showing for Jan 6, the whole day would have gone down very differently. I always wondered the same thing. Since there was credible information that there could be a disturbance why wasn't there more police force there to prevent it? Almost smells like some people in power wanted all this to happen. It would all be a different story if a show of force was present. Makes one wonder.
Who was president on January 6, 2021? Trump was. Was anyone in the trump administration reporting to trump's White House a serious attack was imminent? What were trump's underlings doing that day? We know what trump did (beside watch the rioting on TV) for 187 minutes to stop the rioting at the Capitol: nothing. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 2, 2023 21:00:40 GMT -5
DC National Guard wear black vests to send message as Trump supporters protest Electoral College certification.
More than 300 guardsmen have been called in as part of heightened security measures Published January 6, 2021 9:40am EST National Guard members in Washington, D.C. will wear black vests – in place of their usual camouflage ones – on Wednesday as crowds have already begun to gather to show their support for President Trump before the newly sworn-in Congress is expected to officially certify Electoral College votes in the final step before President-elect Joe Biden is sworn in on Jan. 20.
The black identification vests are meant to highlight a different mission for D.C. National Guard, spokesman Capt. Tinashe T. Machona told Fox News. It is the traditional uniform worn during domestic support operations, including presidential inaugurations, the 4th of July celebration, response to the COVID-19 pandemic, and the 57th anniversary of the March on Washington last year. It is not body armor or a tactical vest.
"It’s different from the camouflage vest, just like this mission is different from other missions we’ve done in the past," Machona said, explaining that each black identification vest includes the guardsman’s name, rank and service "plus the D.C. flag to show our pride in our city."
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2023 23:40:47 GMT -5
I like to really look at details on things like this. Is the idea that there should have been machine gun nests on the landings at the top of the Capitol steps or perhaps lines of law enforcement/military forces with rifles at the ready to start shooting when people starting coming through the barriers surrounding the building? Or should the line been at the doors and windows, shooting anyone if they attempted to come through? I won’t try to advise any particulars as I am not a security professional - but clearly the security was way lacking for what was about to happen. Remember, this was the prep around the Lincoln Memorial after George Floyd. The Lincoln Memorial, although beloved, is just property - there are no law makers or other powerful people in there doing powerful stuff (even if they are not beloved). If there was this kind of showing for Jan 6, the whole day would have gone down very differently. it deserves a separate investigation, imo. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 2, 2023 23:59:35 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 3, 2023 0:05:02 GMT -5
query: other than Trump, how many of the 1/6 protesters REMAIN to be sentenced? found this at NPR. continuously updated: An overview of the cases so far Number of people charged, federal: 994 Number of people charged, D.C.: 24 Number of people who have pleaded guilty: 541 Number of individuals who have had jury or bench trials: 67 The number convicted on all charges: 42 The number acquitted on all charges: 1 The number with mixed verdicts: 24 Number of people sentenced: 445 The percentage of people sentenced who have received prison time: 58 The median sentence for those who received prison time, in days: 60 The prison sentence range: 7 days to 10 years The number of cases dismissed: 5 federal; 8 D.C. Superior Court 1000+ charged 541 pleaded guilty 67 gone to trial 445 sentenced 1 acquitted over 500 remain to be tried and or sentenced. www.npr.org/2023/03/25/1165022885/1000-defendants-january-6-capitol-riot |
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Sept 3, 2023 6:45:33 GMT -5
I won’t try to advise any particulars as I am not a security professional - but clearly the security was way lacking for what was about to happen. Remember, this was the prep around the Lincoln Memorial after George Floyd. The Lincoln Memorial, although beloved, is just property - there are no law makers or other powerful people in there doing powerful stuff (even if they are not beloved). If there was this kind of showing for Jan 6, the whole day would have gone down very differently. I always wondered the same thing. Since there was credible information that there could be a disturbance why wasn't there more police force there to prevent it? Almost smells like some people in power wanted all this to happen. It would all be a different story if a show of force was present. Makes one wonder.
How does the stink of Trump sitting there for 3 hours before calling them off smell to ya? I've asked many Trump supporters this question and never get an answer. |
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 3, 2023 7:16:40 GMT -5
So we are roughly through half of the charged protestors at Jan. 6th per DJ's post.
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ripvanwinkle
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Post by ripvanwinkle on Sept 3, 2023 14:44:15 GMT -5
I always wondered the same thing. Since there was credible information that there could be a disturbance why wasn't there more police force there to prevent it? Almost smells like some people in power wanted all this to happen. It would all be a different story if a show of force was present. Makes one wonder.
How does the stink of Trump sitting there for 3 hours before calling them off smell to ya? I've asked many Trump supporters this question and never get an answer. You''re deflecting. Better question is just who was responsible to provide security knowing the potential for violence and why did they not act? If there had been a show of force it wouldn't have happened like it did. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 3, 2023 14:49:02 GMT -5
How does the stink of Trump sitting there for 3 hours before calling them off smell to ya? I've asked many Trump supporters this question and never get an answer. You''re deflecting. Better question is just who was responsible to provide security knowing the potential for violence and why did they not act? If there had been a show of force it wouldn't have happened like it did. True, the day would have gone differently. Would it have gone better? I say no. |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 3, 2023 15:35:26 GMT -5
How does the stink of Trump sitting there for 3 hours before calling them off smell to ya? I've asked many Trump supporters this question and never get an answer. You''re deflecting. Better question is just who was responsible to provide security knowing the potential for violence and why did they not act? If there had been a show of force it wouldn't have happened like it did. Stop deflecting. Who should have told the crowd it was to be a peaceful march to the Capitol building and there was to be no violence but did not: trump. |
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ripvanwinkle
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Post by ripvanwinkle on Sept 3, 2023 15:37:05 GMT -5
You''re deflecting. Better question is just who was responsible to provide security knowing the potential for violence and why did they not act? If there had been a show of force it wouldn't have happened like it did. True, the day would have gone differently. Would it have gone better? I say no. Did anyone ever find out who and why they did not act to have a strong police force and what punishment did they get? |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 3, 2023 15:47:30 GMT -5
True, the day would have gone differently. Would it have gone better? I say no. Did anyone ever find out who and why they did not act to have a strong police force and what punishment did they get? Check out the links in Reply 2986. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 3, 2023 15:59:16 GMT -5
True, the day would have gone differently. Would it have gone better? I say no. Did anyone ever find out who and why they did not act to have a strong police force and what punishment did they get? You are making an assumption here. So picture this: Notifications are issued that there has been break-ins in your neighborhood. Your house is robbed. The police come to your house and question you on what steps you took to better secure your home. Your insurance company tells you they will not cover your loss since you didn't add any protections. Appropriate? |
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 3, 2023 16:05:59 GMT -5
How does the stink of Trump sitting there for 3 hours before calling them off smell to ya? I've asked many Trump supporters this question and never get an answer. You''re deflecting. Better question is just who was responsible to provide security knowing the potential for violence and why did they not act? If there had been a show of force it wouldn't have happened like it did. Why are you deflecting from the cause of the problem to the police reaction to the storming of the Capitol? Shouldn't the crime and those who enabled it be under more scrutiny than those who did not mind read the size of the problem in advance? |
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ripvanwinkle
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Post by ripvanwinkle on Sept 3, 2023 17:51:19 GMT -5
You''re deflecting. Better question is just who was responsible to provide security knowing the potential for violence and why did they not act? If there had been a show of force it wouldn't have happened like it did. Why are you deflecting from the cause of the problem to the police reaction to the storming of the Capitol? Shouldn't the crime and those who enabled it be under more scrutiny than those who did not mind read the size of the problem in advance? I'm going to have to stand by my statement. IF the police agency in charge had acted on the credible intel evidence from the FBI,CIA and other intel agencies and had a show of force, Jan 6 would not have turned into a riot. If a General in the army got intel there was going to be a attack on his forces and didn't act on it and the battle was lost, he would be removed and court-martialed. The same applies here. Who, if anyone, got called on the carpet for their dereliction of duty and what was their punishment? The fact that Trump got the crowd excited is a moot point in my book.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 3, 2023 17:54:18 GMT -5
Why are you deflecting from the cause of the problem to the police reaction to the storming of the Capitol? Shouldn't the crime and those who enabled it be under more scrutiny than those who did not mind read the size of the problem in advance? I'm going to have to stand by my statement. IF the police agency in charge had acted on the credible intel evidence from the FBI,CIA and other intel agencies and had a show of force, Jan 6 would not have turned into a riot. If a General in the army got intel there was going to be a attack on his forces and didn't act on it and the battle was lost, he would be removed and court-martialed. The same applies here. Who, if anyone, got called on the carpet for their dereliction of duty and what was their punishment? The fact that Trump got the crowd excited is a moot point in my book.
So zero blame for trump in ordering the rioters to the Capitol building? Zero blame for trump in not telling the crowd he called to Washington to be peaceful before he sent them on their way? |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 3, 2023 17:59:46 GMT -5
Why are you deflecting from the cause of the problem to the police reaction to the storming of the Capitol? Shouldn't the crime and those who enabled it be under more scrutiny than those who did not mind read the size of the problem in advance? I'm going to have to stand by my statement. IF the police agency in charge had acted on the credible intel evidence from the FBI,CIA and other intel agencies and had a show of force, Jan 6 would not have turned into a riot. If a General in the army got intel there was going to be a attack on his forces and didn't act on it and the battle was lost, he would be removed and court-martialed. The same applies here. Who, if anyone, got called on the carpet for their dereliction of duty and what was their punishment? The fact that Trump got the crowd excited is a moot point in my book.
The insurrectionists left the building, Congress carried on, and Biden is now President. Things worked out as needed. A major show of force easily could have lead to a worse outcome. |
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