Discrimination in Appraisals...

[TheHaitian]

www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/08/25/realestate/blacks-minorities-appraisals-discrimination.amp.html

I will say: the best appraisal my home received in the past 4 years was during Corona when they did not send an actual appraiser and did a virtual one. What can I say; coincidence 🤷🏾‍♂️....

“People always tell us to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps. But what if you remove the straps?” he said. “You’re invested in the American dream, you have capital, you have a chip in the game. And the fact that somebody could summarily minimize my wealth just because of a bias, it seemed crazy to me.”

[CCL]

I've had low appraisals whether they saw me or not. Actually I've never had a high one. I don't think race had anything to do with it.

[bean29]

Interesting article, and all I can say is I wish things like that did not occur.  I would not have expected lower appraisals based on the race of the homeowner to occur in the Same Neighborhood.  Interesting that when the lady removed all evidence of race from the house, the appraisal went up by 40%.  That is Huge.

I have a painting of some very dark skinned children hanging between my Dinette and my Living Room.  I assume they are Cuban, but not sure.  DH found it in the garbage when he worked for a non-profit and we had it framed because we both liked it.  I guess when we have an appraisal, we should also remove family pictures and take that painting down.  I have never had an appraisal come in lower than what I needed.  The last time we had an appraisal, I did think it was low, but it was high enough to refinance, and that was all I cared about.  I told DH if it was higher, the city would use it to justify charging higher property taxes.  My DH is Mexican, but he has very dark skin.  I usually deal with the banks, but I often have my DH meet with appraisers because his schedule might be more flexible.  (This appraisal was not an appraisal it was some sort of valuation done by a real estate agent.  I felt it was very poorly done, and I could have ripped the valuation to pieces if I had wanted to.  It was an inexpensive appraisal method to save people refinancing with the same Credit Union $$, so I just assumed they just placed a value on it high enough to grant the loan)

Carl, did you notice in the article that it said you could have a remote appraisal for a purchase, but they were not allowing it for a refinance?  You said they did a remote appraisal for your refi?

[TheHaitian]

Aug 26, 2020 16:30:23 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Carl, did you notice in the article that it said you could have a remote appraisal for a purchase, but they were not allowing it for a refinance?  You said they did a remote appraisal for your refi?

I did see that but I closed last Friday with lower and they did a remote appraisal; using recent sale price and home listed; my home appraisal came back at $635,000.

And this was my third appraisal after the other 2 in previous years (in person ones) came back to 585k and 580k which I contested (both) because then similar homes were selling for 600k-620k.

And this year they do a remote one and my appraisal came back 635k 🤷🏾‍♂️ 🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️

[countrygirl2]

I remember a coworker who was black that told me the real estate agent told him to take all pictures and anything down, denoting they were a black family. She said they could get more money for it that way. This was years ago. I said why would they do that? Honestly when I moved to the city I was naive, I didn't know they did things like that. He and his family were the nicest people, I felt so sorry for him.

[Deleted]

That is so wrong.  I am glad Hughley's original appraiser was fired and that Horton reported hers.

[laterbloomer]

I'm constantly being amaze by the variety of ways people find to express their racism. I knew about property values being lower in "black neighbourhoods" but it never occured to me that appraisers would act out on people that live in "better" neighbourhoods.

[formerroomate99]

I’m a math person, so seeing patterns is kind of what my brain is hardwired for. When I was househunting, I did notice there were certain design elements that were more common in different demographic groups, and some of those elements would make certain artsy fartsy people cringe.

If that’s a factor, it’s a pretty stupid one. Decor is pathetically easy to change, and has absolutely nothing to do with the layout of the house or whether it’s been well-maintained. It sounds like some implicit bias training is needed for the folks who do appraisals.

[Tiny]

I have first hand experience with the property values in "black neighborhoods" - when I was looking for a SFH house in Florida.

I was looking at 1950's cinder block 2b/1b with a car port houses or 2b/2b with a garage - they have a particular look - the roof line, windows, and maybe some landscaping - the kind of icon looking ones that make you immediately think "someplace tropical".   There are whole subdivisions of these... and they were built all over the place if they aren't in a subdivision.  I think they were the "must have" Florida house back in the 1950's and into the 1960's.   

I found that on one side of a "busy street" the houses were selling for 50 to 70K LESS than on the other side. Exact same house, with granite kitchens, stainless steel appliances, new flooring, painted grey. The difference was the less expensive side was  black/hispanic - the more expensive side  "white".

It also shows the income disparity - can the not white people afford the houses on the white side of the street? Would they be welcomed if they could? Is this a way to segregate people? Equal but separate? If a non white does make the move to the other side of the street - how does that effect their 'relationship' with the other not white people they work with/are related to that still live on the other side? How do the white people treat them (will it set off white flight?). And it begs the question -- Is there a neighborhood where the well to do not white people live?

The part of Florida I was looking to buy property the segregation and racism is blantantly obvious - when looking at real estate.

(FWIW: There are "Black suburbs" and "Hispanic suburbs" where I live. There are also suburbs that are becoming more diverse (and that are even encouraging it thru advertising - as in "we welcome everyone" with the implied if you can afford a house here. It's now more of an income bias rather than color, gender, sexuality bias.)

I'm seeing the "income bias" in my neighborhood - I'm living with well to do "english is not my first language" families, well to do multi-color families, well to do gay couples, well to do Black families, well to do Hispanic families. and well to do new (just marrieds/little kids) and old (kids are going to college or empty nests) white families.

I would think it's weird to live or work or worship (I'm an Atheist and welcome at the Universalist Church) with people who only looked like me.

[Opti]

Aug 26, 2020 20:35:54 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I'm constantly being amaze by the variety of ways people find to express their racism. I knew about property values being lower in "black neighbourhoods" but it never occured to me that appraisers would act out on people that live in "better" neighbourhoods.

I think there is a belief in certain white people that it is easier to swindle or take advantage of black people. And historically that might have been the case much like life while female. Sometimes you have to take bad deals because that is all you are offered in order to move forward. 

There is bias everywhere. Having this data point one needs to decide what to do with it. I would not be surprised to find that obviously female owned properties might suffer bias in some areas over male owned properties.

[buystoys]

When we sold our house in NY, the appraisals didn't seem to matter due to color.  It was what lender wanted to loan out money.  The FHA guy trashed the house.  The two other appraisals were good.  It was eye opening to see how much variance there was in looking at the same property.

[seriousthistime]

It's not just Black and Hispanic decor that turns some people off.  I've been in some open houses with very Asian decor.  They sold for lower prices than would have been expected. 

Buyers are notoriously unable to look past decor just like they are unable to look past clutter. 

I notice Realtors are now "virtually staging" their online listings.