Rukh O'Rorke
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 4, 2016 13:31:15 GMT -5
Posts: 10,030
|
Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jun 7, 2020 10:19:19 GMT -5
I agree with laterbloomer on several points here. Top of this list is - this is not our movement to mold and shape. We can join and support/be allies, but parsing out the messaging with 'changes' to make it more palatable to who? exactly? Some dumbfuck that has been living under a rock for past 5 years and never heard of BLM before and just might be slightly more amenable to become an ally if the message is softened up just a little bit so rock-living-dumbfuck isn't overtaken immediately by underlying racist conditioning to reject the message and then the movement? blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,147
|
Post by tallguy on Jun 7, 2020 11:57:13 GMT -5
And I don't think the American Revolution or The Civil War are apt comparisons, for what should be obvious reasons, but to address your argument: I had posted something earlier about, "at what cost?" The Civil War cost an estimated 750,000 lives. As a percentage of population in today's numbers that would be 7.5 to 8 million people dead. Is that too high a cost, not to mention the economic destruction and the continuing enmity between the two sides? And yet, it has been over 150 years since that war ended. Is the battle won yet? Kinda hard to say yes. If it HAD been won then, we would not have needed Martin, Malcolm, the whole civil rights movement, or BLM now. Imposing change through conquest means that you will have to keep stomping out fires for a long time. The vanquished do not simply "buy in" to the idea that they were wrong all along. We are still dealing with effects from that battle. We will be for a long time. Changing minds may be slower, but the effects are longer-lasting. Without the destruction of war, literal or figurative. Here's a thought experiment: Would racism be more or less of a problem, or no different today, if we had managed to avoid the Civil War and end slavery through peaceful means? As for your arguement, slave owners were not going to be won over no matter how nicely you said it. They had to be forced. Just like the Egyptians had to be forced back in yhe say. And that is true of racists today. All the racists are not just going to die off. There are new young ones coming up all the time. Anyway, I hear you loud and clear. You don't want to really look at what you are telling people to do. I'm done talking to you about it. It's not a topic for "thought excercises" Probably a good thing. I admire your passion. I always have. I just wish it did not get ahead of your logic and reading comprehension. You are countering an argument that I am not making. Best to be done with it. Hope everything is well, and my best to you always.
|
|
nidena
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 28, 2010 20:32:26 GMT -5
Posts: 3,581
|
Post by nidena on Jun 7, 2020 15:07:33 GMT -5
The small town where I live is very red. I absolutely do not fit in with 95% of the people who live here. The next town over is probably 99% red. I have enough problems living in this town. The LCOL keeps me here. I also don't know where I can afford to go where I could be with more like minded people. Sadly not back to Boulder. You can come join me in NW Indy. It's less red than the nearly 100% lily-colored state you're in. COL is about the same, too.
|
|
NancysSummerSip
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 19:19:42 GMT -5
Posts: 36,320
Today's Mood: Full of piss and vinegar
Favorite Drink: Anything with ice
|
Post by NancysSummerSip on Jun 7, 2020 15:58:11 GMT -5
Before today's NASCAR race broadcast, a clip was shown from an interview driver Bubba Wallace did with FOX Sports. In the clip, he spoke of a phone conversation he recently had with his mother. He was so overcome he could not finish the interview:
|
|
NancysSummerSip
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 19:19:42 GMT -5
Posts: 36,320
Today's Mood: Full of piss and vinegar
Favorite Drink: Anything with ice
|
Post by NancysSummerSip on Jun 7, 2020 16:01:28 GMT -5
I think this few minutes encapsulates for many of us what we simply cannot understand, ever: the fear of a parent for a child who will never achieve what they want, let alone survive to adulthood, because of how they look and how they are perceived by others. I don't have kids, so I cannot imagine that kind of fear. For the record, Bubba Wallace is a very funny guy under average circumstances. But he's gotten a lot of hate from a lot of NASCAR fans, because he is black. Even driving for a legend like Richard Petty has not helped much.
|
|
laterbloomer
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 26, 2018 0:50:42 GMT -5
Posts: 4,350
|
Post by laterbloomer on Jun 7, 2020 16:53:26 GMT -5
As for your arguement, slave owners were not going to be won over no matter how nicely you said it. They had to be forced. Just like the Egyptians had to be forced back in yhe say. And that is true of racists today. All the racists are not just going to die off. There are new young ones coming up all the time. Anyway, I hear you loud and clear. You don't want to really look at what you are telling people to do. I'm done talking to you about it. It's not a topic for "thought excercises" Probably a good thing. I admire your passion. I always have. I just wish it did not get ahead of your logic and reading comprehension. You are countering an argument that I am not making. Best to be done with it. Hope everything is well, and my best to you always. My reading comprehension and logic are absolutely fine. You ARE blaming the victim and your refusal to examine that is an example of your ingrained male privilege. Being patronising about it is just your own arrogance.
|
|
tskeeter
Junior Associate
Joined: Mar 20, 2011 19:37:45 GMT -5
Posts: 6,831
|
Post by tskeeter on Jun 7, 2020 23:27:24 GMT -5
My almost 12 year-old DD asked if she could go to one of the rallies and I said no. I felt really shitty for doing so but my husband is out of town, there's no-one to watch my younger girl, and I was very apprehensive about serious trouble. We're in Atlanta and where I work downtown has been boarded up after all the nearby restaurants were damaged. Even 'our' Target was looted and set on fire and that's less than than two miles from our home. Anyway, I got a text alert this morning that my neighbourhood is having a "Community Show of Support" for Black Lives Matter this evening. We will be there because I want my girls to know that racism is unacceptable in our family and should be in every family. I think I posted this on the kids thread but a few nights ago I was cuddling with my 7 year old while trying not to cry because I was thinking about all the women I know who are mothers to 7 year old black and brown boys and how frightened they must be for their sons. A friend posted on Facebook one of those "Keep Calm" memes and it read "I can't keep calm. I have a black son". To me, a teachable moment. The old saw “don’t go asking for trouble” comes to mind. Attending a rally that is likely to shift to violence, rioting, and looting is putting yourself someplace where you are likely to get sucked into a situation you would prefer to avoid. If you’re riding the flume, you’re probably gonna get wet. Best to just stay away from an event that could turn south very quickly. There are other ways to demonstrate support and contribute to encouraging change. Your neighborhood’s event is a good example.
|
|