Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 9:42:11 GMT -5
Oregon's been breaking our record of cases daily. Everyone seems to dismiss it as more testing, despite no more testing being done.
I was out and about yesterday, I saw one person in a mask the entire time. More than one person got in my personal space in a store without any thought of the virus.
The government isn't "allowing" the protests and I'm pretty sure Trump wouldn't care about the "brown people" getting the virus so probably has no issue with their protesting from the virus angle. He only cares the numbers of protesters make HIM look bad.
If you think the government cares about your health and safety right now, I have some land to sell you........
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 9:43:39 GMT -5
The other favorite excuse here is it's the migrant farm workers and skill nursing facilities and "no one else has it". Um hmmm....
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 9, 2020 9:55:09 GMT -5
I live in Michigan--you know the state that had protestors with guns inside our Capitol building? That was before the BLM protests. It was allowed then. Why and how could they not allow the BLM protests after allowing freaking people with guns inside our Capitol? It looked like a coup d'etat could happen there at any time. The thing is, people have extra time and things to be upset about, and things start getting really dangerous. It's tricky allowing people to express themselves when it becomes organized into huge crowds. So, yeah, things are opening, then protests happened, and the shit is about to hit the fan as a result. In Arizona, the shit started hitting the fan before the BLM protests started. Just from ignoring social distancing guidelines and opening up in general. So, if you want to stop social distancing at this point, it's on you. Don't blame anyone else. It's out there, and you know it is. First off...I was 100% against the protestors that went to the Capitol Building, too. However, there were 100% of them and from the accounts I read, they were required to have their temp taken before entering the buildings. Police allowed more than a hundred protesters to peacefully enter the Capitol building around 1 p.m.
People had their temperature taken by police as they entered
www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-michigan-idUSKBN22C38WAccording to CNN, only 275 protesters — of an estimated 400-700 total — were allowed into the capitol building at a time. www.mic.com/p/armed-protesters-stormed-michigans-capitol-over-shelter-in-place-orders-22865035
So I was totally against the protests but in the overall scheme of anything, there were hundreds of them. And before they were allowed into the building, they had their temps taken. Hundreds in one city. Not hundreds of thousands across the country. Not hundreds of thousands in hot zones. Those hundreds of people had liberals up in arms...crying about how they are going to cause death to everyone by spreading the virus. Yet those same people are in favor of what has been going on over the last two weeks. I call BS on it. We won't agree and that's cool. But the hypocrisy just kills me. And that is a general statement, not directed at you. I was just in the capitol building for a tour with my son's class last fall. 275 seems like awful lot inside. Don't get me wrong, I think the protests are a bad idea because of covid, but I think they were inevitable in a free country such as ours, and I prefer to live in a country where I am free to protest, and not have something happen like Tiananmen Square, or to devolve into something like Kent State. And I kinda think the politicians in charge really only had those 2 choices.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 9, 2020 10:02:51 GMT -5
The meat packing plant saga continues in Iowa. We'll see what happens with the protests in Omaha there is no way that won't bleed over.
Most things are open now I just don't have a desire to go anywhere. I did get my hair cut I was comfortable with that, they wouldn't allow me to touch anything including the door, we all wore masks. I was in an out after around 35 minutes which is way less time than I have spent around my coworkers in the last 3 months.
The zoo is open but I have zero desire to go while wearing a mask. All the buildings are closed so no way to get out of the heat nad they've made it one way so you're required to walk all the way through till the end. It's about a 2.5 mile walk through the entire zoo with NO stopping allowed. I get they are doing what they have to do and need the revenue but it's only a matter of time before someone drops from heat stroke.
Ditto with the Farmer's Market. All one way, must have a mask. I don't want to have to shuffle in line inhaling everyone's breath even with a mask on just to point at produce while baking in a parking lot. I do Farmbox for produce which is all local farmers delivered to my door so I'm still getting my fix and supporting the community.
No desire to eat out either now that I have broken the habit. I enjoy doing take out from the comfort of my home, especially with small kids. It'd have to be something really worth my while to get me to go out to eat and that will likely be my attitude for awhile.
We're still on track for Estes in August again if the world hasn't ended. I didn't make it this long not getting it just to get it right before I go on vacation. We stay in single occupancy cabins not a hotel and we'll practice social distancing while out there.
I do have to go to the dentist. Like Haapi I cannot forgo dental care until there is a treatment or vaccine, I won't have any teeth left by the time we get there. I feel I am at far less risk with my dentist than I am at the grocery store. At least my dentist is trained to properly wear PPE compared to the numerous incorrect ways I see employees at the supermarket using masks. (I'll give them credit for trying though).
Hoping to get approved for Invisalign. I'd like to get my issues fixed so if I'm ever in this position again I don't have to worry about not getting into the dentist. We'll see my appointment is next week.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jun 9, 2020 10:26:17 GMT -5
Yesterday, a statewide directive went into effect. All businesses must require employees to wear mask (a few exceptions). And they must post signes encouraging customers to wear masks.
My own county has gone further: county wide masks are required in places of businesses - both employees and customers. It's causing some issues for local businesses because out of town tourists come in not knowing and not having masks. The Chamber of Commerce is preparing a plan so that businesses can be united and customers realize that it's a county requirement, not a business decision.
The local Safeway store, so far, is ignoring the requirement. I'm not shopping there. I'm driving further to a different store. And have complained to Safeway.
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oped
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Post by oped on Jun 9, 2020 10:41:53 GMT -5
We go green Friday. Daughter and I had special take out lunch today (usually we do take out once a week) so I asked if they were opening the dining room Friday and they are so I'm thinking we will do Thursday order out this week, but then not do any for 2-3 weeks as we observe. Oh... saw this on facebook:
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Jun 9, 2020 13:16:16 GMT -5
Exactly what I'm afraid of. Lately though, I seem to be in the minority of people who are still scared of the virus! It’s what we have decided. We no longer have the collective will, patience, or ability to sacrifice to do what needs to be done. We dismiss science and expertise. What we did blunted the severity of the effects in many places, so people think we overreacted. The person who could change the narrative has no interest in talking about the virus anymore, and never really believed the scientists anyway. Our only hope is that we get lucky. We don’t understand it’s behavior, so we only can guess what comes next. Logically, there is no reason to think it is done with us. I hope I am wrong Me too, but I don't think you're wrong. Minutes ago, our gov lifted the stay at home order. Probably because he was called out for joining a protest.
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Jun 9, 2020 13:20:29 GMT -5
Go the fuck to the hairdresser then. We all have priorities. If you want to risk death for a hair cut have at it... I did. And she came to my house to do my daughter's hair on Saturday because someone turned her. My point is, if Covid is so deadly and such a risk to our people, the governors would not have allowed what happened to happen. I took it very, very seriously and now realize I was played. Unless protesting and rioting somehow protect you from Covid or from spreading it. I'm no doctor but I'm guessing if it is safe to protest/riot then it is safe to get a haircut. I understand your anger, but how can you think you were 'played'? Did you see the death toll? Our huge local hospital had refrigerator trucks in the parking lot for the bodies. I don't think I was mislead then, but I'm starting to now with the reopening.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 9, 2020 13:26:53 GMT -5
The estimate is that the lockdown prevented 5 million cases; of the mortality is 2%, that would be another 100,000 deaths. Sounds like it did what it was supposed to do. Problem is we failed to follow through with what was needed to be done to be ready for the next phase. In addition, we should have been lifting restrictions in a step-wise fashion. Instead, we have 50 different plans, and a divided population that has different ideas about the reality of this situation and varying degrees of compliance with the restrictions. Where does the blame for that lie
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 9, 2020 13:50:01 GMT -5
The blame lies at the top, imo.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 9, 2020 13:52:35 GMT -5
I think things would get a little dicey to ban protests, for the same reason banning church services was dicey.
I'm interested to see if Covid is less transferable outdoors. We should have that data soon. We certainly will have a large enough statistical sample size.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 9, 2020 13:56:21 GMT -5
I think things would get a little dicey to ban protests, for the same reason banning church services was dicey. I'm interested to see if Covid is less transferable outdoors. We should have that data soon. We certainly will have a large enough statistical sample size. It probably is, like most respiratory infections. Problem is, is that there will likely be more cases than would have been without the protests. This then is a bigger repository of infections than we would have had, making a second wave more likely, and likely occurring sooner than it may have in the fall. Unfortunate for all of us
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Jun 9, 2020 14:45:43 GMT -5
All reopening means is there's room in ICU for you.
The medical community has learned so much in the past 3 months about how to treat this.
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oped
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Post by oped on Jun 9, 2020 14:52:50 GMT -5
That’s closing in on not true in several states...
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 9, 2020 15:00:56 GMT -5
The estimate is that the lockdown prevented 5 million cases; of the mortality is 2%, that would be another 100,000 deaths. Sounds like it did what it was supposed to do. Problem is we failed to follow through with what was needed to be done to be ready for the next phase. In addition, we should have been lifting restrictions in a step-wise fashion. Instead, we have 50 different plans, and a divided population that has different ideas about the reality of this situation and varying degrees of compliance with the restrictions. Where does the blame for that lie To be clear, that is the number of confirmed cases. The study also said that the number of infections averted may be 60 million, since only a fraction of infections end up being tested for and confirmed.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 9, 2020 15:04:28 GMT -5
The estimate is that the lockdown prevented 5 million cases; of the mortality is 2%, that would be another 100,000 deaths. Sounds like it did what it was supposed to do. Problem is we failed to follow through with what was needed to be done to be ready for the next phase. In addition, we should have been lifting restrictions in a step-wise fashion. Instead, we have 50 different plans, and a divided population that has different ideas about the reality of this situation and varying degrees of compliance with the restrictions. Where does the blame for that lie To be clear, that is the number of confirmed cases. The study also said that the number of infections averted may be 60 million, since only a fraction of infections end up being tested for and confirmed. True, but since that is what we are reporting now, it is an Apple to Apple comparison. If we use 5% as the mortality(as it is now), that would be 250,000 additional deaths. That is what has been accomplished. Maybe we should have let it happen, since people are complaining about how what we did was a waste
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Jun 9, 2020 15:10:25 GMT -5
That’s closing in on not true in several states... True. So even though my state is using a logical approach to reopening, I'm still being extra careful. And will continue to be so for a long time.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Jun 9, 2020 15:18:28 GMT -5
The estimate is that the lockdown prevented 5 million cases; of the mortality is 2%, that would be another 100,000 deaths. Sounds like it did what it was supposed to do. Problem is we failed to follow through with what was needed to be done to be ready for the next phase. In addition, we should have been lifting restrictions in a step-wise fashion. Instead, we have 50 different plans, and a divided population that has different ideas about the reality of this situation and varying degrees of compliance with the restrictions. Where does the blame for that lie Having different scenarios is needed for this country where there are some highly impacted states like NY and some areas of the country with very few cases/deaths. And there are step wise degrees of lifting. Absolutely there are different ideas and degrees of compliance. The US isn’t an Asian culture which is more compliant and socially homogeneous, the US is much more individualistic . Then the protests began and people saw hundred if thousands of people not complying with social distancing and many without masks. Does ‘blame’ even a consideration? Even in China there are different degrees and times of quarantine. Do you really think there could be a single plan? If it was a ‘single ‘ plan then the plan would have needed multiple ‘sub plans’ for all the different areas of the country,
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 9, 2020 15:29:00 GMT -5
The estimate is that the lockdown prevented 5 million cases; of the mortality is 2%, that would be another 100,000 deaths. Sounds like it did what it was supposed to do. Problem is we failed to follow through with what was needed to be done to be ready for the next phase. In addition, we should have been lifting restrictions in a step-wise fashion. Instead, we have 50 different plans, and a divided population that has different ideas about the reality of this situation and varying degrees of compliance with the restrictions. Where does the blame for that lie Having different scenarios is needed for this country where there are some highly impacted states like NY and some areas of the country with very few cases/deaths. And there are step wise degrees of lifting. Absolutely there are different ideas and degrees of compliance. The US isn’t an Asian culture which is more compliant and socially homogeneous, the US is much more individualistic . Then the protests began and people saw hundred if thousands of people not complying with social distancing and many without masks. Does ‘blame’ even a consideration? Even in China there are different degrees and times of quarantine. Do you really think there could be a single plan? If it was a ‘single ‘ plan then the plan would have needed multiple ‘sub plans’ for all the different areas of the country, No, there should have been plans for different regions, with well thought out guideposts for what should have been, so that similar levels of infection could be treated similarly, and we could have seen how different levels worked. This should have been coordinated at the federal level by the task force and the CDC. Instead, we got a free for all, and have no real plan, nor a plan to figure out what is necessary. The mask issue started with trump. Don’t blame the protests. He refused to wear one, endorse using it, required them of his administration, and then ridiculed Biden for wearing one. All before the protests. He also encouraged protests by his supporters against the restrictions, talked about and encouraged churches to open, even in defiance of statewide edicts, all while denying any responsibility, and in contradiction to cdc guidelines. The recent protests just cemented that any restrictions were going to fall apart. But you seem to want to absolve trump of his culpability. Any other leader would be rightly criticized for his lack of leadership
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 9, 2020 19:21:16 GMT -5
IDK - I do think things were handled badly from the start but at this point I'm not really judging anyone for doing what they feel is necessary. I'm not judging protesters for standing up for change or people like hairdressers, nail techs, etc. that need to make a living.
It is super easy for those with the capability to work from home to sit back and tell those with jobs which require interaction with the public to suck it up...
At this point almost everyone i know is taking some sort of risk. Some are protesting, some are getting their hair done, some have decided they are tired of not seeing family and are now doing it, some have eaten in a restaurant. Most everyone i know is engaged in some sort of risk. I'm not judging any of them...i guess you all can judge me for not judging...
I am; however, concerned about our Healthcare workers. I know people like pulmomarymd are putting their lives on the line everyday, and just when they thought they might get a breather we (the collective we) go and possibly create a second wave sooner than originally thought. I am sorry about that...I'm not sure we can ever thank them enough for what they endure on a daily basis.
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crazycat
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Post by crazycat on Jun 9, 2020 23:32:10 GMT -5
We go green Friday. Daughter and I had special take out lunch today (usually we do take out once a week) so I asked if they were opening the dining room Friday and they are so I'm thinking we will do Thursday order out this week, but then not do any for 2-3 weeks as we observe. Oh... saw this on facebook: I like this , very apt
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 10, 2020 4:41:07 GMT -5
I did. And she came to my house to do my daughter's hair on Saturday because someone turned her. My point is, if Covid is so deadly and such a risk to our people, the governors would not have allowed what happened to happen. I took it very, very seriously and now realize I was played. Unless protesting and rioting somehow protect you from Covid or from spreading it. I'm no doctor but I'm guessing if it is safe to protest/riot then it is safe to get a haircut. I understand your anger, but how can you think you were 'played'? Did you see the death toll? Our huge local hospital had refrigerator trucks in the parking lot for the bodies. I don't think I was mislead then, but I'm starting to now with the reopening. If it was that big of a risk to society, my governor would not have allowed thens of thousands of people to swarm big cities. There is no way that is safe but me getting my hair done or me dining in a restaurant is so risky. If people are allowed to protest/riot and loot then I am damn well going to get my hair done and go places. A lot of our local business are now sticking their fingers up at the governor and opening anyway. Our DA has told them that she will not enforce any citations that get appealed Also, last night our state house and senators crossed the aisle to pass a bill that basically vetoed his emergency powers to shut down the state. I couldn’t find a lot of details last night so I have a lot of reading to do today.
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plugginaway22
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Post by plugginaway22 on Jun 10, 2020 5:51:04 GMT -5
I live in PA. I work in medicine. DH was laid off due to being a non-essential business. I am so thankful that the governor did what he did, when he did it.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 10, 2020 6:30:01 GMT -5
I understand your anger, but how can you think you were 'played'? Did you see the death toll? Our huge local hospital had refrigerator trucks in the parking lot for the bodies. I don't think I was mislead then, but I'm starting to now with the reopening. If it was that big of a risk to society, my governor would not have allowed thens of thousands of people to swarm big cities. There is no way that is safe but me getting my hair done or me dining in a restaurant is so risky. If people are allowed to protest/riot and loot then I am damn well going to get my hair done and go places. A lot of our local business are now sticking their fingers up at the governor and opening anyway. Our DA has told them that she will not enforce any citations that get appealed Also, last night our state house and senators crossed the aisle to pass a bill that basically vetoed his emergency powers to shut down the state. I couldn’t find a lot of details last night so I have a lot of reading to do today. Cases and hospitalizations are already going up in many states, totally unrelated to the protests you are railing against. But they are due to a premature opening, not following the cdc guidelines(meager as they are, and people’s behavior over Memorial Day. A new cluster in PA is due to a house party in cape May. But continue to rail against these protests. Trump encouraged protests last month. He is planning to restart rallies at the end of the month, just in time for cases to spike from current events. He will then blame the protests for his contribution, and his supporters will eat it up. People complained about the severity of the lockdown. How would you have prevented travel? Have the National guard close the highways? How would essential workers who live out of state get to work? People who were told to come to work or be fired, had little choice. And we know your feelings on welfare.
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oped
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Post by oped on Jun 10, 2020 6:54:37 GMT -5
But for our medical workers and other vulnerable bystanders, I’d be ok with natural selection doing its work here...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 8:51:43 GMT -5
My area isn't doing badly. Johnson County, KS shows number of tests and also shows LTC cases. Rate of positive tests was 6.7% on 5/8 when I started collecting stats and now it's down to 3.9%- probably because they expanded testing to less-vulnerable populations. LTC cases are about 1/3 of total. Deaths practically level.
KC/Jackson County increasing but no numbers on how many tests are being done. There was a spike when a few cases were reported at a paper factory and then all the employees were tested- 200 were positive (that may have included family members). Deaths also leveling out.
BF and I are planning to visit Gasconnade County, MO in July- total number of cases stuck at 2, zero deaths since May 8.
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Jun 10, 2020 11:51:03 GMT -5
I understand your anger, but how can you think you were 'played'? Did you see the death toll? Our huge local hospital had refrigerator trucks in the parking lot for the bodies. I don't think I was mislead then, but I'm starting to now with the reopening. If it was that big of a risk to society, my governor would not have allowed thens of thousands of people to swarm big cities. There is no way that is safe but me getting my hair done or me dining in a restaurant is so risky. If people are allowed to protest/riot and loot then I am damn well going to get my hair done and go places. A lot of our local business are now sticking their fingers up at the governor and opening anyway. Our DA has told them that she will not enforce any citations that get appealed Also, last night our state house and senators crossed the aisle to pass a bill that basically vetoed his emergency powers to shut down the state. I couldn’t find a lot of details last night so I have a lot of reading to do today. All this is saying is if he can do it, I can do it. I pray you don't wind up 'dead right'.
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oped
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Post by oped on Jun 10, 2020 12:03:17 GMT -5
She also equating outdoor masked activities with indoor unmasked activities but details...
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 10, 2020 12:57:32 GMT -5
She also equating outdoor masked activities with indoor unmasked activities but details... I’m pretty sure when they were looting in Philly it was indoors. Details...pesky details! Also, my stylist called to get an exemption to do hair outside. She was told no. And we have not been allowed to have large gatherings, inside or outside. But somehow protests and riots are acceptable. I’m calling BS
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 10, 2020 13:45:01 GMT -5
She also equating outdoor masked activities with indoor unmasked activities but details... I’m pretty sure when they were looting in Philly it was indoors. Details...pesky details! Also, my stylist called to get an exemption to do hair outside. She was told no. And we have not been allowed to have large gatherings, inside or outside. But somehow protests and riots are acceptable. I’m calling BS Riots were never acceptable, except to a minority of people. Protests are not recommended, but if you cannot see the difference before protesting the murder of a black person and a party, I do not know what to say. In addition, still not willing to blame the current increase in cases in out. CA and AZ are running out of ICU beds. And this increase as nothing to do with the recent protests.
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