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Post by Value Buy on Nov 13, 2019 13:30:49 GMT -5
We all know if the democrats succeed in impeaching the President it goes nowhere in the Senate. In the typical American's mind, impeachement is not accomplished unless the Senate convicts. Without the Senate conviction it is not really true Impeachment as Trump is still there, probably stronger then ever politically speaking.
Posters here have hinted in threads Republicans do not understand Impeachment referencing the Senate's position in the process and admit he is impeached but not removed from office. I wonder why the House does not go for Censure instead of Impeachment. They have a truly easy chance of accomplishing this without looking so political and actually making the President look weak in the minds of the every day citizen. It even puts Republicans in a bad light defending him against Censure. Thoughts?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Nov 13, 2019 13:46:03 GMT -5
A censure is a slap on the hand for being naughty. Putting personal political ambitions ahead of national security is not mere "naughtiness". It is a gross dereliction of duty.
The House needs to do their job and investigate whether his actions merit impeachment. IMO, they definitely do.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 13, 2019 14:24:01 GMT -5
I have heard the argument in favor of this. I think, given the political realities, it may have merit down the road. However at this point I think it is also prudent to let the impeachment hearings play out, fully. I also heard some yammering about possibly impeaching, tabling (not the right term) the impeachment, and then censuring. Not sure how that can be kosher. However if it is that would maybe help mollify the more angry Democrats. Right now impeachment goes nowhere in the Senate. We don't know where that will be in three weeks though. The house of cards could crumble. In the end the best defeat for the man is at the polls- decisively. or just the opposite. Re-election and the fact America has spoken.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 13, 2019 14:27:18 GMT -5
Okay, you all know I am with Trump. Believe it or not I would not go over the deep edge with Censure. I would not be jumping up and down in a screaming rage, but I get it. He has to learn to play within the lines of decorum.
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 13, 2019 14:39:02 GMT -5
censure is dumb.
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 13, 2019 14:52:16 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 13, 2019 14:54:09 GMT -5
Okay, you all know I am with Trump. Believe it or not I would not go over the deep edge with Censure. I would not be jumping up and down in a screaming rage, but I get it. He has to learn to play within the lines of decorum. If he were censured for his name calling, I would agree that is a lesson about "decorum". This one is a bit more than that.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Nov 13, 2019 14:57:49 GMT -5
Okay, you all know I am with Trump. Believe it or not I would not go over the deep edge with Censure. I would not be jumping up and down in a screaming rage, but I get it. He has to learn to play within the lines of decorum. Dems are having to mollify the angry element in their ranks, I don't think censure would be enough. As other people have said, it's a slap on the wrist, and for an administration where the president routinely tells his staff to ignore subpoenas I think Trump would spin the censure as 'see, I didn't do anything REALLY bad and the dems know it, so all they did was censure me, which I can safely ignore (like the subpoenas.).
By the way, remember way back when that woman refused to testify in congress against President Clinton during the whitewater investigation, and ended up doing 18 months in the federal pen for ignoring the subpoena? Susan McDougal? Wonder why she had to serve time when so many Trump admin people have skipped free after doing the same thing?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Nov 13, 2019 15:04:18 GMT -5
Okay, you all know I am with Trump. Believe it or not I would not go over the deep edge with Censure. I would not be jumping up and down in a screaming rage, but I get it. He has to learn to play within the lines of decorum. Dems are having to mollify the angry element in their ranks, I don't think censure would be enough. As other people have said, it's a slap on the wrist, and for an administration where the president routinely tells his staff to ignore subpoenas I think Trump would spin the censure as 'see, I didn't do anything REALLY bad and the dems know it, so all they did was censure me, which I can safely ignore (like the subpoenas.).
By the way, remember way back when that woman refused to testify in congress against President Clinton during the whitewater investigation, and ended up doing 18 months in the federal pen for ignoring the subpoena? Susan McDougal? Wonder why she had to serve time when so many Trump admin people have skipped free after doing the same thing? Start throwing their asses in jail for ignoring supoenas. Stop mollycoddling criminals.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Nov 13, 2019 15:06:03 GMT -5
I have heard the argument in favor of this. I think, given the political realities, it may have merit down the road. However at this point I think it is also prudent to let the impeachment hearings play out, fully. I also heard some yammering about possibly impeaching, tabling (not the right term) the impeachment, and then censuring. Not sure how that can be kosher. However if it is that would maybe help mollify the more angry Democrats. Right now impeachment goes nowhere in the Senate. We don't know where that will be in three weeks though. The house of cards could crumble. In the end the best defeat for the man is at the polls- decisively. or just the opposite. Re-election and the fact America has spoken.America spoke in 2016. "Hillary". If he wins the EC again, I'll bet that his opponent wins the popular vote by an even larger margin. Say 5 million...
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Nov 13, 2019 15:09:19 GMT -5
I actually find it hard to believe that Congress is so willing to accept this. I suspect that members of the Senate probably are guilty of collusion on this. Withholding $ congress allocated for a Democratic Allie to use to defend themselves against Russia one of our biggest enemies? We are supposed to accept this is such a minor issue that it merits no more than a slap on the wrist?
I suspect that there are a lot of Republican Voters that are trying to decide who to vote for in fall. I also think that even if Trump gets re-elected, the Senate is no longer going to be a majority R, and so the Second Term will be a whole different Game.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 13, 2019 15:10:16 GMT -5
... Dems are having to mollify the angry element in their ranks, I don't think censure would be enough. ... Or is it that the Democrats are simply doing their Constitutional duty? That the President's behavior has left them no choice?
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Nov 13, 2019 15:53:05 GMT -5
We all know if the democrats succeed in impeaching the President it goes nowhere in the Senate. In the typical American's mind, impeachement is not accomplished unless the Senate convicts. Without the Senate conviction it is not really true Impeachment as Trump is still there, probably stronger then ever politically speaking. Posters here have hinted in threads Republicans do not understand Impeachment referencing the Senate's position in the process and admit he is impeached but not removed from office. I wonder why the House does not go for Censure instead of Impeachment. They have a truly easy chance of accomplishing this without looking so political and actually making the President look weak in the minds of the every day citizen. It even puts Republicans in a bad light defending him against Censure. Thoughts? Would you care to tell us why you are ok with this? In a (hypothetical) criminal trial this is the equivalent to a jury saying "if you accuse Joe Bob of murdering his wife" we are NOT going to convict him.
If the hearings lead to an impeachment, Senators are expected to do their duty and convict, or not, based on the evidence provided and NOT on whether this guy is "their dude" or not! They need to uphold the oath they have taken:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God."
www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Oath_Office.htm
Nothing in there about defending the president of the US (link from the US Senate's home page so they can look this up any time they need a little refresher)
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Nov 13, 2019 16:04:35 GMT -5
I have heard the argument in favor of this. I think, given the political realities, it may have merit down the road. However at this point I think it is also prudent to let the impeachment hearings play out, fully. I also heard some yammering about possibly impeaching, tabling (not the right term) the impeachment, and then censuring. Not sure how that can be kosher. However if it is that would maybe help mollify the more angry Democrats. Right now impeachment goes nowhere in the Senate. We don't know where that will be in three weeks though. The house of cards could crumble. In the end the best defeat for the man is at the polls- decisively. or just the opposite. Re-election and the fact America has spoken. Re elect but he gets beaten in popular vote...thats "America" has spoken?.... For u want another four years...a nation even more divided says to me u have little concerns or love for this country...Sad but true...This man is a disaster as POTUS and another term, four more years of this soap opera.....this your in favor of..?
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Nov 13, 2019 16:08:47 GMT -5
Okay, you all know I am with Trump. Believe it or not I would not go over the deep edge with Censure. I would not be jumping up and down in a screaming rage, but I get it. He has to learn to play within the lines of decorum. Dems are having to mollify the angry element in their ranks, I don't think censure would be enough. As other people have said, it's a slap on the wrist, and for an administration where the president routinely tells his staff to ignore subpoenas I think Trump would spin the censure as 'see, I didn't do anything REALLY bad and the dems know it, so all they did was censure me, which I can safely ignore (like the subpoenas.).
By the way, remember way back when that woman refused to testify in congress against President Clinton during the whitewater investigation, and ended up doing 18 months in the federal pen for ignoring the subpoena? Susan McDougal? Wonder why she had to serve time when so many Trump admin people have skipped free after doing the same thing?
Actually the penalty for ignoring a subpoena isn't automatic...believe charges have to be brought and possible a court hearing then if found guilty a sentence...Don't think we are there yet..chargesm court , penalty handed down if found guilty.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 13, 2019 16:14:55 GMT -5
or just the opposite. Re-election and the fact America has spoken. Re elect but he gets beaten in popular vote...thats "America" has spoken?.... For u want another four years...a nation even more divided says to me u have little concerns or love for this country...Sad but true...This man is a disaster as POTUS and another term, four more years of this soap opera.....this your in favor of..? Please do not try and tell me whether I have love for this country. Your drinking the democratic Kool-aid and have fallen prey to the coup leaders.
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Nov 13, 2019 17:00:17 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 13, 2019 17:24:28 GMT -5
Re elect but he gets beaten in popular vote...thats "America" has spoken?.... For u want another four years...a nation even more divided says to me u have little concerns or love for this country...Sad but true...This man is a disaster as POTUS and another term, four more years of this soap opera.....this your in favor of..? Please do not try and tell me whether I have love for this country. Your drinking the democratic Kool-aid and have fallen prey to the coup leaders.I would swear trump wrote the above post, especially the highlighted portion. Coup leaders indeed.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Nov 13, 2019 18:44:48 GMT -5
Re elect but he gets beaten in popular vote...thats "America" has spoken?.... For u want another four years...a nation even more divided says to me u have little concerns or love for this country...Sad but true...This man is a disaster as POTUS and another term, four more years of this soap opera.....this your in favor of..? Please do not try and tell me whether I have love for this country. Your drinking the democratic Kool-aid and have fallen prey to the coup leaders. " drinking the democratic Kool-aid and have fallen prey to the coup leaders."
Huh? Cool Aid? What does that mean..It sounds like sound bites from Fox and Trump rallies...word for word. Don't understand the "Coup leaders " either...Mind explaining.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Nov 13, 2019 18:50:29 GMT -5
Okay, you all know I am with Trump. Believe it or not I would not go over the deep edge with Censure. I would not be jumping up and down in a screaming rage, but I get it. He has to learn to play within the lines of decorum. "Okay, you all know I am with Trump."
Why?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Nov 13, 2019 18:51:17 GMT -5
Re elect but he gets beaten in popular vote...thats "America" has spoken?.... For u want another four years...a nation even more divided says to me u have little concerns or love for this country...Sad but true...This man is a disaster as POTUS and another term, four more years of this soap opera.....this your in favor of..? Please do not try and tell me whether I have love for this country. Your drinking the democratic Kool-aid and have fallen prey to the coup leaders. Based on your posts, it is clear to me that you put your party over your country.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 13, 2019 20:17:00 GMT -5
Keep in mind. Trump's call to Ukraine came ONE DAY after Mueller's testimony to Congress regarding trump's prior legal quagmire regarding Russia, collusion and obstruction. Trump obviously has no ethical boundaries here, and there is no effective call to decency for him that would have any effect. this is one of the clearest indicators of the need to impeach.
he never saw anything wrong with Round One of this. as soon as he felt that Mueller let him off the hook, he was on to Round Two. if we let him off the hook, it will become the new norm. particularly if he wins in 2020 BECAUSE of it.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 13, 2019 20:46:21 GMT -5
trump would laugh off a censure. "No one censure me. I'm the president!" trump would exclaim.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 13, 2019 20:50:51 GMT -5
trump would laugh off a censure. "No one censure me. I'm the president!" trump would exclaim. And he will laugh off not being removed from office following impeachment.
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Nov 13, 2019 20:52:12 GMT -5
VB, do you know the definition of "coup"? Good grief man, think a little. I don't care who you "like", just use your brain some! And this is poor little uneducated me asking you to do this. At least look the word up before using it!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 13, 2019 20:54:26 GMT -5
trump would laugh off a censure. "No one censure me. I'm the president!" trump would exclaim. And he will laugh off not being removed from office following impeachment. That's true. But it can now be thrown in his face he's no better than Bill Clinton. Both impeached. trump will not like that one bit.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 13, 2019 21:00:26 GMT -5
And he will laugh off not being removed from office following impeachment. That's true. But it can now be thrown in his face he's no better than Bill Clinton. Both impeached. trump will not like that one bit. i am not POSITIVE he won't be removed. I am NEARLY certain. but not 100%.
the calculus may become so bad for Republicans that the cure is better than the disease.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 13, 2019 21:02:57 GMT -5
That's true. But it can now be thrown in his face he's no better than Bill Clinton. Both impeached. trump will not like that one bit. i am not POSITIVE he won't be removed. I am NEARLY certain. but not 100%.
the calculus may become so bad for Republicans that the cure is better than the disease.
Lets hope so. trump has been a pox on the United States.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 13, 2019 21:03:06 GMT -5
And he will laugh off not being removed from office following impeachment. That's true. But it can now be thrown in his face he's no better than Bill Clinton. Both impeached. trump will not like that one bit. Goody. We can "Neener Neener" at him like school children.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 13, 2019 21:04:51 GMT -5
That's true. But it can now be thrown in his face he's no better than Bill Clinton. Both impeached. trump will not like that one bit. Goody. We can "Neener Neener" at him like school children. No need to n"Neener, neener". Just keep reminding him he was impeached.
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