hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Nov 5, 2019 11:22:39 GMT -5
If they hold a major issue about not living next to catholic hospitals, then yeah, it's a pretty terrible life choice to live next to a catholic hospital. Would you consider it a GOOD life choice if someone said "I place a lot of value in not living next to a Catholic hospital, so I chose to live next to a Catholic hospital". If you make choices that put you in positions you are highly against...yeah, that's a pretty awful life choice on your part. So I buy a house by the non Catholic hospital. They get bought out by a Catholic hospital chain. How is that my fault? I singlehandedly have the ability to stop a sale of a hospital? You singlehandedly have the ability to move if you place enough significance on not living next to a Catholic hospital chain. If you place a high value on not living next to a Catholic hospital, and you choose to stay, you've made your own choice to stay...which would seem to be a poor choice if you truly place that kind of value on not living next to one. Life choices are ongoing, they are not "make it once and then blame everyone else if it stops working out for you". You might have to make a life choice about where to live many times throughout your life, as priorities change, as situations around you change, etc.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 14,720
|
Post by raeoflyte on Nov 5, 2019 11:39:15 GMT -5
So I buy a house by the non Catholic hospital. They get bought out by a Catholic hospital chain. How is that my fault? I singlehandedly have the ability to stop a sale of a hospital? You singlehandedly have the ability to move if you place enough significance on not living next to a Catholic hospital chain. If you place a high value on not living next to a Catholic hospital, and you choose to stay, you've made your own choice to stay...which would seem to be a poor choice if you truly place that kind of value on not living next to one. Life choices are ongoing, they are not "make it once and then blame everyone else if it stops working out for you". You might have to make a life choice about where to live many times throughout your life, as priorities change, as situations around you change, etc. How about what hospital my insurance covers? If I can get a different job, then maybe I can have another hospital covered, but that's assuming I can get a different job and as Beth points out there are a lot of pieces outside of my control. Of all the choices that go into where I live, I really can't imagine knowing who owns and manages every hospital as a reasonable requirement on that list. I should be able to get medically appropriate treatment wherever that is based on current medical research.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Nov 5, 2019 11:56:08 GMT -5
You singlehandedly have the ability to move if you place enough significance on not living next to a Catholic hospital chain. If you place a high value on not living next to a Catholic hospital, and you choose to stay, you've made your own choice to stay...which would seem to be a poor choice if you truly place that kind of value on not living next to one. Life choices are ongoing, they are not "make it once and then blame everyone else if it stops working out for you". You might have to make a life choice about where to live many times throughout your life, as priorities change, as situations around you change, etc. How about what hospital my insurance covers? If I can get a different job, then maybe I can have another hospital covered, but that's assuming I can get a different job and as Beth points out there are a lot of pieces outside of my control. Of all the choices that go into where I live, I really can't imagine knowing who owns and manages every hospital as a reasonable requirement on that list. I should be able to get medically appropriate treatment wherever that is based on current medical research. You don't have to have your insurance through your workplace. You don't need to know who owns and manages every hospital, but if you place a high priority on a certain thing, you should be educated on that thing. You say "of all the choices that go into where I live"...I agree with that. My point is that if at the top of your priority list is "I want this particular type of healthcare", then it's absolutely reasonable to expect you to be educated on whether the things at the TOP of your priority list are available where you choose to live. If those things aren't at the top of your priority list that's fine, but then that's a choice on your part not to prioritize that. It's not reasonable to expect someone to have in-depth knowledge of every little thing that could ever happen, I do think it's reasonable to expect people to put forth that effort on things which top their priority...things which don't top that priority and don't end up working themselves out in your favor are things you have to deal with. If "of all the choices that go into where I live", healthcare isn't towards the top, then that's fine. But then you've got to admit it wasn't at the top of your priorities and you have subjected yourself to whatever happens to be available where you chose to live based on other things. We all have to prioritize things in life when it comes to making decisions like that. But you can't simultaneously say "healthcare options are REALLY important to me...so I choose where to live without any regard for healthcare options". As an example, a lot of people seem to care about the weather of a place they're going to live, for all kinds of reasons (health, hobbies, work, etc). I don't think it's a reasonable requirement to say "everyone should know how many days below zero the temperature averages in a year"...because some people just don't care about that. I think it's absolutely reasonable to say that if someone CARES about how many days below zero it gets in a year, that they figure that out and incorporate that into their choice of where to live.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 5, 2019 12:08:34 GMT -5
Why are you arguing so much for this, hoops? This has really gotten ridiculous. Most people, until they are approaching retirement do not think about healthcare access until they need it. Until then, choices where they live tend to be more dependent on where they get a job, where they have family, and where the better schools are. Things like hobbies and temperature have a lesser impact, but neither of these are important when it comes to job access (as someone who has moved 3x in my professional life for my job). The hospital that got a good chunk of my insurance company’s money is now Catholic. This happened in the last 6 years. So are you suggesting chasing hospitals? What about those who are insured whose coverage only includes specific hospitals? What happens when the private insurance you go after changes what you have access to? You are contorting yourself to justify why this is a good thing. Not only that, you are assuming that everyone has the resources to chase hospital access.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Nov 5, 2019 12:21:49 GMT -5
Why are you arguing so much for this, hoops? This has really gotten ridiculous. Most people, until they are approaching retirement do not think about healthcare access until they need it. Until then, choices where they live tend to be more dependent on where they get a job, where they have family, and where the better schools are. Things like hobbies and temperature have a lesser impact, but neither of these are important when it comes to job access (as someone who has moved 3x in my professional life for my job). The hospital that got a good chunk of my insurance company’s money is now Catholic. This happened in the last 6 years. So are you suggesting chasing hospitals? What about those who are insured whose coverage only includes specific hospitals? What happens when the private insurance you go after changes what you have access to? You are contorting yourself to justify why this is a good thing. Not only that, you are assuming that everyone has the resources to chase hospital access. Why am I arguing that people ought to be responsible for their own life choices? I dunno, weird quirk I guess. I seem to be in the minority in thinking people have agency in their own lives, as opposed to be victims of fate. I'm not justifying anything as "a good thing", I'm justifying that businesses ought to get to make non-discriminatory decisions about their own business. There are lots of things that I don't necessarily think are "good things" that I think people should be expected to incorporate into their own life decisions. I don't think homes flooding is a good thing. But if someone builds their house in a hurricane zone below sea level...I think they're an idiot to come back and say "well I had no choice in the matter, it's all beyond my control". If the question is "what happens when things change in your life circumstances", the answer is "you figure out if your choices that you've previously made still put you in the position you want to be in given the new circumstances". So I'm not suggesting you chase hospitals, because you haven't said that going to a non-catholic hospital is high on your priority list. If you tell me that the most important thing in your life is access to a non-catholic hospital...then yeah, I'd suggest chasing hospitals. There's a saying "you can have anything you want, but you can't have everything you want". If what you REALLY want is specific hospital access...you can have it. It's all a matter of your own priorities. I don't judge people who say "I place specific hospital access below a bunch of other things when it comes time to choose where I live"...I think that's perfectly fine. I do judge people who de-prioritize specific hospital access...then complain that someone should fix the things they didn't prioritize in order to be what they want them to be.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 14,720
|
Post by raeoflyte on Nov 5, 2019 13:07:47 GMT -5
How about what hospital my insurance covers? If I can get a different job, then maybe I can have another hospital covered, but that's assuming I can get a different job and as Beth points out there are a lot of pieces outside of my control. Of all the choices that go into where I live, I really can't imagine knowing who owns and manages every hospital as a reasonable requirement on that list. I should be able to get medically appropriate treatment wherever that is based on current medical research. You don't have to have your insurance through your workplace. You don't need to know who owns and manages every hospital, but if you place a high priority on a certain thing, you should be educated on that thing. You say "of all the choices that go into where I live"...I agree with that. My point is that if at the top of your priority list is "I want this particular type of healthcare", then it's absolutely reasonable to expect you to be educated on whether the things at the TOP of your priority list are available where you choose to live. If those things aren't at the top of your priority list that's fine, but then that's a choice on your part not to prioritize that. It's not reasonable to expect someone to have in-depth knowledge of every little thing that could ever happen, I do think it's reasonable to expect people to put forth that effort on things which top their priority...things which don't top that priority and don't end up working themselves out in your favor are things you have to deal with. If "of all the choices that go into where I live", healthcare isn't towards the top, then that's fine. But then you've got to admit it wasn't at the top of your priorities and you have subjected yourself to whatever happens to be available where you chose to live based on other things. We all have to prioritize things in life when it comes to making decisions like that. But you can't simultaneously say "healthcare options are REALLY important to me...so I choose where to live without any regard for healthcare options". As an example, a lot of people seem to care about the weather of a place they're going to live, for all kinds of reasons (health, hobbies, work, etc). I don't think it's a reasonable requirement to say "everyone should know how many days below zero the temperature averages in a year"...because some people just don't care about that. I think it's absolutely reasonable to say that if someone CARES about how many days below zero it gets in a year, that they figure that out and incorporate that into their choice of where to live. I disagree. I shouldn't have to move (my home or heaven and earth) to have access to basic medical care. There isn't a male equivalent so I can see how you view the birth control piece as a choice, but it isn't. It's basic medical care. You'd argue all day that it was my choice to have a baby, so let's make sure women actually have that choice in the first world country we currently reside. What about vacationing or travelling for work or visiting family? I have personally made vacationing plans (in the US) that include, "would my family receive appropriate medical care here if an accident were to happen?", but it's crap that I have to, and I feel lucky that I'm able to make that choice. It's 2019 and we're talking basic medical care that if you end up in the "wrong" hospital you can be denied.
|
|
bean29
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 22:26:57 GMT -5
Posts: 9,924
|
Post by bean29 on Nov 5, 2019 13:08:04 GMT -5
I live in the Greater Milwaukee area, I think most of the hospitals in our area are connected to Catholic Hospitals. Froedtert used to be Lutheran, but I don't know if they are anymore. Hospitals closest to me are Wheaton Franciscan -Franklin, St. Lukes, St. Francis and St. Catherines. next closest one is West Allis which is part of a Catholic Chain I think. My OBGYN is at Elmbrook -Part of Ascension (Catholic Chain).
Color me concerned. I am pro-Choice, which I feel should more appropriately be described as PRO-Birth Control.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Nov 5, 2019 13:17:53 GMT -5
You don't have to have your insurance through your workplace. You don't need to know who owns and manages every hospital, but if you place a high priority on a certain thing, you should be educated on that thing. You say "of all the choices that go into where I live"...I agree with that. My point is that if at the top of your priority list is "I want this particular type of healthcare", then it's absolutely reasonable to expect you to be educated on whether the things at the TOP of your priority list are available where you choose to live. If those things aren't at the top of your priority list that's fine, but then that's a choice on your part not to prioritize that. It's not reasonable to expect someone to have in-depth knowledge of every little thing that could ever happen, I do think it's reasonable to expect people to put forth that effort on things which top their priority...things which don't top that priority and don't end up working themselves out in your favor are things you have to deal with. If "of all the choices that go into where I live", healthcare isn't towards the top, then that's fine. But then you've got to admit it wasn't at the top of your priorities and you have subjected yourself to whatever happens to be available where you chose to live based on other things. We all have to prioritize things in life when it comes to making decisions like that. But you can't simultaneously say "healthcare options are REALLY important to me...so I choose where to live without any regard for healthcare options". As an example, a lot of people seem to care about the weather of a place they're going to live, for all kinds of reasons (health, hobbies, work, etc). I don't think it's a reasonable requirement to say "everyone should know how many days below zero the temperature averages in a year"...because some people just don't care about that. I think it's absolutely reasonable to say that if someone CARES about how many days below zero it gets in a year, that they figure that out and incorporate that into their choice of where to live. I disagree. I shouldn't have to move (my home or heaven and earth) to have access to basic medical care. There isn't a male equivalent so I can see how you view the birth control piece as a choice, but it isn't. It's basic medical care. You'd argue all day that it was my choice to have a baby, so let's make sure women actually have that choice in the first world country we currently reside. What about vacationing or travelling for work or visiting family? I have personally made vacationing plans (in the US) that include, "would my family receive appropriate medical care here if an accident were to happen?", but it's crap that I have to, and I feel lucky that I'm able to make that choice. It's 2019 and we're talking basic medical care that if you end up in the "wrong" hospital you can be denied. I think it would be great to have all the resources anyone could ever want available to everyone in the entire country. That doesn't mean I think any person or group or business should be FORCED to provide it if they don't want to...particularly when it's not a discriminatory practice where they are provided to some but not others based on protected classes. There's a world of difference between "would this be a good thing to have" and "should we force people to do it". If you think it's important, then go start a company that provides the service, and go open locations that are within a reasonable distance of everyone in the country.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 5, 2019 13:23:21 GMT -5
I disagree. I shouldn't have to move (my home or heaven and earth) to have access to basic medical care. There isn't a male equivalent so I can see how you view the birth control piece as a choice, but it isn't. It's basic medical care. You'd argue all day that it was my choice to have a baby, so let's make sure women actually have that choice in the first world country we currently reside. What about vacationing or travelling for work or visiting family? I have personally made vacationing plans (in the US) that include, "would my family receive appropriate medical care here if an accident were to happen?", but it's crap that I have to, and I feel lucky that I'm able to make that choice. It's 2019 and we're talking basic medical care that if you end up in the "wrong" hospital you can be denied. I think it would be great to have all the resources anyone could ever want available to everyone in the entire country. That doesn't mean I think any person or group or business should be FORCED to provide it if they don't want to...particularly when it's not a discriminatory practice where they are provided to some but not others based on protected classes. There's a world of difference between "would this be a good thing to have" and "should we force people to do it". If you think it's important, then go start a company that provides the service, and go open locations that are within a reasonable distance of everyone in the country. But that is the point. Local doctors who are willing to prescribe end of life care are not allowed to do so if they want admitting privileges to the local hospital. No one is forced to do anything, other than the Catholic umbrella of hospitals is NOT ALLOWING doctors who are perfectly ok with it to practice medicine as they see fit. A doctor without hospital admitting privileges is a pretty useless doctor. Essentially, the Catholic church is determining medical policy. How would you feel if your local hospital decided no more blood transfusions? Better hope you never need surgery, or are in an accident. Your white, male privilege is alive and well. Too bad you cannot see past it to how the rest of the world lives.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Nov 5, 2019 13:27:37 GMT -5
I think it would be great to have all the resources anyone could ever want available to everyone in the entire country. That doesn't mean I think any person or group or business should be FORCED to provide it if they don't want to...particularly when it's not a discriminatory practice where they are provided to some but not others based on protected classes. There's a world of difference between "would this be a good thing to have" and "should we force people to do it". If you think it's important, then go start a company that provides the service, and go open locations that are within a reasonable distance of everyone in the country. But that is the point. Local doctors who are willing to prescribe end of life care are not allowed to do so if they want admitting privileges to the local hospital. No one is forced to do anything, other than the Catholic umbrella of hospitals is NOT ALLOWING doctors who are perfectly ok with it to practice medicine as they see fit. A doctor without hospital admitting privileges is a pretty useless doctor. Essentially, the Catholic church is determining medical policy. How would you feel if your local hospital decided no more blood transfusions? Better hope you never need surgery, or are in an accident. ....or prostate cancer care.
|
|
HoneyBBQ
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 10:36:09 GMT -5
Posts: 5,395
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"3b444e"}
|
Post by HoneyBBQ on Nov 5, 2019 13:31:47 GMT -5
They made "poor choices" by living next to a catholic hospital?? LOL!!! So awesome that you're a doctor and know how different women respond to birth control and can figure it out across the miles. Really quite a talent you have there. You should open a shop! If they hold a major issue about not living next to catholic hospitals, then yeah, it's a pretty terrible life choice to live next to a catholic hospital. Would you consider it a GOOD life choice if someone said "I place a lot of value in not living next to a Catholic hospital, so I chose to live next to a Catholic hospital". If you make choices that put you in positions you are highly against...yeah, that's a pretty awful life choice on your part. I guess I should have packed up and left when the hospital that used to be private got bought out. I should have seen it coming! Maybe God should have whispered it to me or given me a sign...
|
|
HoneyBBQ
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 10:36:09 GMT -5
Posts: 5,395
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"3b444e"}
|
Post by HoneyBBQ on Nov 5, 2019 13:34:10 GMT -5
I think it would be great to have all the resources anyone could ever want available to everyone in the entire country. That doesn't mean I think any person or group or business should be FORCED to provide it if they don't want to...particularly when it's not a discriminatory practice where they are provided to some but not others based on protected classes. There's a world of difference between "would this be a good thing to have" and "should we force people to do it". If you think it's important, then go start a company that provides the service, and go open locations that are within a reasonable distance of everyone in the country. But that is the point. Local doctors who are willing to prescribe end of life care are not allowed to do so if they want admitting privileges to the local hospital. No one is forced to do anything, other than the Catholic umbrella of hospitals is NOT ALLOWING doctors who are perfectly ok with it to practice medicine as they see fit. A doctor without hospital admitting privileges is a pretty useless doctor. Essentially, the Catholic church is determining medical policy. How would you feel if your local hospital decided no more blood transfusions? Better hope you never need surgery, or are in an accident. Your white, male privilege is alive and well. Too bad you cannot see past it to how the rest of the world lives. You should probably find something more rational to do than argue about this... like read the president's twitter feed or some faked moon landing blog.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Nov 5, 2019 13:36:58 GMT -5
I think it would be great to have all the resources anyone could ever want available to everyone in the entire country. That doesn't mean I think any person or group or business should be FORCED to provide it if they don't want to...particularly when it's not a discriminatory practice where they are provided to some but not others based on protected classes. There's a world of difference between "would this be a good thing to have" and "should we force people to do it". If you think it's important, then go start a company that provides the service, and go open locations that are within a reasonable distance of everyone in the country. But that is the point. Local doctors who are willing to prescribe end of life care are not allowed to do so if they want admitting privileges to the local hospital. No one is forced to do anything, other than the Catholic umbrella of hospitals is NOT ALLOWING doctors who are perfectly ok with it to practice medicine as they see fit. A doctor without hospital admitting privileges is a pretty useless doctor. Essentially, the Catholic church is determining medical policy. How would you feel if your local hospital decided no more blood transfusions? Better hope you never need surgery, or are in an accident. Your white, male privilege is alive and well. Too bad you cannot see past it to how the rest of the world lives. I'd feel annoyed that I was going to need to move. But I'd do it if that hospital was my only option in the area. The Catholic Church is determining medical policy, in THEIR hospitals. And only to the extent that they are not violating the law. If you don't like it, then go compete with them, and rally everyone who agrees with you to join in. I get why it's EASIER to just bitch and moan and act the victim...I'm simply arguing that I don't support that line of (in)action.
|
|
Chocolate Lover
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 15:54:19 GMT -5
Posts: 23,200
|
Post by Chocolate Lover on Nov 5, 2019 15:18:11 GMT -5
So who's got the link to the twitter feed about how 100% of unwanted pregnancies are the men's fault? This one?
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Nov 5, 2019 16:01:42 GMT -5
But that is the point. Local doctors who are willing to prescribe end of life care are not allowed to do so if they want admitting privileges to the local hospital. No one is forced to do anything, other than the Catholic umbrella of hospitals is NOT ALLOWING doctors who are perfectly ok with it to practice medicine as they see fit. A doctor without hospital admitting privileges is a pretty useless doctor. Essentially, the Catholic church is determining medical policy. How would you feel if your local hospital decided no more blood transfusions? Better hope you never need surgery, or are in an accident. Your white, male privilege is alive and well. Too bad you cannot see past it to how the rest of the world lives. I'd feel annoyed that I was going to need to move. But I'd do it if that hospital was my only option in the area. The Catholic Church is determining medical policy, in THEIR hospitals. And only to the extent that they are not violating the law. If you don't like it, then go compete with them, and rally everyone who agrees with you to join in. I get why it's EASIER to just bitch and moan and act the victim...I'm simply arguing that I don't support that line of (in)action. So, you'd move/find another job, and then THAT hospital gets swallowed up by a Catholic chain. What now? Move again? Find another job again? It's ludicrous.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Nov 5, 2019 16:13:07 GMT -5
I'd feel annoyed that I was going to need to move. But I'd do it if that hospital was my only option in the area. The Catholic Church is determining medical policy, in THEIR hospitals. And only to the extent that they are not violating the law. If you don't like it, then go compete with them, and rally everyone who agrees with you to join in. I get why it's EASIER to just bitch and moan and act the victim...I'm simply arguing that I don't support that line of (in)action. So, you'd move/find another job, and then THAT hospital gets swallowed up by a Catholic chain. What now? Move again? Find another job again? It's ludicrous. Move to a place that doesn't just have a single hospital if I cared about it so much? Start my own business providing healthcare that does provide blood transfusions if so many people felt the same way.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Nov 5, 2019 16:51:01 GMT -5
So, you'd move/find another job, and then THAT hospital gets swallowed up by a Catholic chain. What now? Move again? Find another job again? It's ludicrous. Move to a place that doesn't just have a single hospital if I cared about it so much? Start my own business providing healthcare that does provide blood transfusions if so many people felt the same way. Imagine this scenario. You have an aggressive form of prostate or penile cancer. Catholic hospitals refuse to treat you. Sure, you're going to move, find other work, and start a business. And then have to move again. Good luck with that.
|
|
NastyWoman
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 20:50:37 GMT -5
Posts: 14,350
|
Post by NastyWoman on Nov 5, 2019 16:58:17 GMT -5
This whole debate has me rolling my eyes so badly. I can't believe we have anyone making these "if you don't like your options, just move" arguments in 2019.
At the risk of sounding like Sophia in Golden Girls I am going to tell you a story from 1965 when I was a "medium size pot (13yo) with big ears". My mom had just barely survived giving birth to her 9th child. The child did not survive (and they had lost another baby a decade earlier at 3 months), so her OB/GYN asked my parents if they were open to mom going on the pill. He needed dad's buy in as well, but the answer was yes. Now I grew up in a region that was 98% catholic and the nurses in the hospital were nuns. Turns out the nuns blabbed and within weeks we had the pastor of our church in our home. At the time I was doing dishes in the kitchen and I could hear everything (you'll know in a moment why I also remember it all). Pastor proceeded to tell my parents how this was against God, yada, yada, yada... And my very quiet dad interrupted him and told the pastor that they had 7 kids that needed their mom and he wasn't going to risk losing his wife so he needed to butt out. Pastor tried again and dad told him in no uncertain terms that he had two minutes to leave our home (second story apartment) by himself or he would learn how to fly on the way out! Pastor beat a retreat and the issue was never brought up again. Mom never had any problems to get the care she needed, nor did I or any of my siblings when we needed BC. BTW, my parents never knew I had overheard that exchange. I was smart enough to make myself rare before anyone left the living room.
Now if we could figure out how to NOT let politicians/anti-whatever groups dictate control over our bodies why are we here almost 55 years later debating whether women should adjust their lives to the satisfy the oppression politicians/anti-whatever groups in a country that prides itself on being for individual freedom no less.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Nov 5, 2019 17:03:24 GMT -5
Move to a place that doesn't just have a single hospital if I cared about it so much? Start my own business providing healthcare that does provide blood transfusions if so many people felt the same way. Imagine this scenario. You have an aggressive form of prostate or penile cancer. Catholic hospitals refuse to treat you. Sure, you're going to move, find other work, and start a business. And then have to move again. Good luck with that. I'm not stupid enough to just sit around waiting to see if I get sick before figuring out what healthcare is offered to me. I won't speak for other people though. If I care about specific healthcare items, I move before the Catholic group even takes over the nearby hospital if that's my only option. These things don't happen with a snap of the fingers.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Nov 5, 2019 17:08:32 GMT -5
This whole debate has me rolling my eyes so badly. I can't believe we have anyone making these "if you don't like your options, just move" arguments in 2019.
At the risk of sounding like Sophia in Golden Girls I am going to tell you a story from 1965 when I was a "medium size pot (13yo) with big ears". My mom had just barely survived giving birth to her 9th child. The child did not survive (and they had lost another baby a decade earlier at 3 months), so her OB/GYN asked my parents if they were open to mom going on the pill. He needed dad's buy in as well, but the answer was yes. Now I grew up in a region that was 98% catholic and the nurses in the hospital were nuns. Turns out the nuns blabbed and within weeks we had the pastor of our church in our home. At the time I was doing dishes in the kitchen and I could hear everything (you'll know in a moment why I also remember it all). Pastor proceeded to tell my parents how this was against God, yada, yada, yada... And my very quiet dad interrupted him and told the pastor that they had 7 kids that needed their mom and he wasn't going to risk losing his wife so he needed to butt out. Pastor tried again and dad told him in no uncertain terms that he had two minutes to leave our home (second story apartment) by himself or he would learn how to fly on the way out! Pastor beat a retreat and the issue was never brought up again. Mom never had any problems to get the care she needed, nor did I or any of my siblings when we needed BC. BTW, my parents never knew I had overheard that exchange. I was smart enough to make myself rare before anyone left the living room.
Now if we could figure out how to NOT let politicians/anti-whatever groups dictate control over our bodies why are we here almost 55 years later debating whether women should adjust their lives to the satisfy the oppression politicians/anti-whatever groups in a country that prides itself on being for individual freedom no less. Totally understand, people willing to take personal responsibility for their own choices is in rare supply these days. Though to be clear, it's not just "if you don't like your options just move", it's "if you don't like your options, then move, or create your own options, do something to take responsibility for your own life instead of living as a perpetual victim". But to your point, I definitely agree, it's hard to believe anyone still actually believes in personal responsibility...it's crazy!
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 26, 2024 6:14:54 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 17:28:18 GMT -5
The mafia and yakuza have legal business interests so it’s no shock the catholic church digs their tentacles into healthcare as much as possible. It’s kind of a perfect spot for them, where else could they force their beliefs on so many people?
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Nov 5, 2019 18:13:58 GMT -5
I disagree. I shouldn't have to move (my home or heaven and earth) to have access to basic medical care. There isn't a male equivalent so I can see how you view the birth control piece as a choice, but it isn't. It's basic medical care. You'd argue all day that it was my choice to have a baby, so let's make sure women actually have that choice in the first world country we currently reside. What about vacationing or travelling for work or visiting family? I have personally made vacationing plans (in the US) that include, "would my family receive appropriate medical care here if an accident were to happen?", but it's crap that I have to, and I feel lucky that I'm able to make that choice. It's 2019 and we're talking basic medical care that if you end up in the "wrong" hospital you can be denied. I think it would be great to have all the resources anyone could ever want available to everyone in the entire country. That doesn't mean I think any person or group or business should be FORCED to provide it if they don't want to...particularly when it's not a discriminatory practice where they are provided to some but not others based on protected classes. There's a world of difference between "would this be a good thing to have" and "should we force people to do it". If you think it's important, then go start a company that provides the service, and go open locations that are within a reasonable distance of everyone in the country. Start your own hospital? What planet are you living on?
|
|
teen persuasion
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:49 GMT -5
Posts: 4,043
|
Post by teen persuasion on Nov 5, 2019 22:30:15 GMT -5
Imagine this scenario. You have an aggressive form of prostate or penile cancer. Catholic hospitals refuse to treat you. Sure, you're going to move, find other work, and start a business. And then have to move again. Good luck with that. I'm not stupid enough to just sit around waiting to see if I get sick before figuring out what healthcare is offered to me. I won't speak for other people though. If I care about specific healthcare items, I move before the Catholic group even takes over the nearby hospital if that's my only option. These things don't happen with a snap of the fingers. They do happen pretty quickly, though. Just last summer the last remaining hospital in a good radius announced it was shutting down its maternity services and dialysis unit. There used to be another tiny hospital a bit north of there - over the last few years it's been systematically downgraded: first they closed its ER, then it became an outpatient branch of the city hospital I mentioned first, then it became an immediate care type of place, then a training facility for allied health BOCES classes. The same day they announced the city hospital services cuts, they finally closed the former little hospital, also killing the allied health program for high school kids in the process. Of course, that's in the city at the heart of the county, the county seat. I live quite near the eastern border of the county, so it's convenient to drive over the county border to the county east of us. There is a tiny hospital there - 2 of my kids were born there, one by emergency C-section. Oh, they closed that hospital's maternity wing some time before DS5 was born, so that's no longer an option, either. There used to be a hospital in that county's seat, a bit further east, but it closed a few years earlier (the doctor who did my emergency C-section previously practiced there). So now in my area your options for a hospital with a maternity ward are ALL in the metro area 40+ miles south (#2 city in the state). North is a great lake. West is the Niagara river, and a great lake further south of that. East would mean crossing two counties to reach the metro area 50+miles away (#3 city in the state). The hospitals in #2 city have been consolidating, closing probably 2/3 since the 90s. Those left are being concentrated downtown, they just moved Children's hospital (where many high risk deliveries used to be done) to downtown, and dropped the maternity services (and the "Women's" part of the former name). In a community that keeps spreading outward from the city core, to now third ring suburbs, why would you deliberately concentrate the majority of hospitals in the downtown up against the waterfront? Why wouldn't community planners insist that hospital facilities be evenly distributed thruout the region? God forbid there's a disaster at one building in the medical campus downtown, it'll render all the others out of reach, too. Redundancy is a good thing in an emergency.
|
|
teen persuasion
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:49 GMT -5
Posts: 4,043
|
Post by teen persuasion on Nov 5, 2019 23:02:32 GMT -5
I'm more concerned about having A hospital nearby, not so much whether it is Catholic or not.
The hospitals remaining in the region are split roughly half in the Catholic network, other half in the Kaleida network. I haven't seen that the Catholic hospitals I've been in have limited access to procedures. When my first pregnancy was not going well (ultrasound showed no fetal parts) I was offered the option to have a D&C immediately, or wait for nature to take its course. My hospital roommate after one of the kids was born wanted her tubes tied before she was released - doc said ok, they'd schedule it. Maybe it depends on state rules whether they can refuse certain procedures?
|
|
bean29
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 22:26:57 GMT -5
Posts: 9,924
|
Post by bean29 on Nov 6, 2019 2:22:27 GMT -5
I'm more concerned about having A hospital nearby, not so much whether it is Catholic or not. The hospitals remaining in the region are split roughly half in the Catholic network, other half in the Kaleida network. I haven't seen that the Catholic hospitals I've been in have limited access to procedures. When my first pregnancy was not going well (ultrasound showed no fetal parts) I was offered the option to have a D&C immediately, or wait for nature to take its course. My hospital roommate after one of the kids was born wanted her tubes tied before she was released - doc said ok, they'd schedule it. Maybe it depends on state rules whether they can refuse certain procedures? I think the Church has gotten stricter in the last few years.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 6, 2019 9:49:12 GMT -5
I'm more concerned about having A hospital nearby, not so much whether it is Catholic or not. The hospitals remaining in the region are split roughly half in the Catholic network, other half in the Kaleida network. I haven't seen that the Catholic hospitals I've been in have limited access to procedures. When my first pregnancy was not going well (ultrasound showed no fetal parts) I was offered the option to have a D&C immediately, or wait for nature to take its course. My hospital roommate after one of the kids was born wanted her tubes tied before she was released - doc said ok, they'd schedule it. Maybe it depends on state rules whether they can refuse certain procedures? I think the Church has gotten stricter in the last few years. Yeah, it's my understanding too. My insurance is UHC but basically it's all the Aurora sites plus Children's. I'm not sure about Froedert. Aurora seems to be a Catholic organization but not really thrusting religion into the medical care I have used.
Ascension is making inroads here. They've bought/merged with Wheaten Franciscan and Columbia St. Mary's.
Children's works with anyone. They've got some shared spaces with Ascension in this area but they have/had shared spaces with other Healthcare companies too.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,393
|
Post by thyme4change on Nov 6, 2019 10:07:53 GMT -5
I'm more concerned about having A hospital nearby, not so much whether it is Catholic or not. The hospitals remaining in the region are split roughly half in the Catholic network, other half in the Kaleida network. I haven't seen that the Catholic hospitals I've been in have limited access to procedures. When my first pregnancy was not going well (ultrasound showed no fetal parts) I was offered the option to have a D&C immediately, or wait for nature to take its course. My hospital roommate after one of the kids was born wanted her tubes tied before she was released - doc said ok, they'd schedule it. Maybe it depends on state rules whether they can refuse certain procedures? I think the Church has gotten stricter in the last few years. Because we are headed to Gilead.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,436
|
Post by Tennesseer on Nov 6, 2019 21:49:31 GMT -5
Judge strikes down new Trump rule on religious objectionsNEW YORK (AP) — A federal judge on Wednesday struck down a new Trump administration rule that could open the way for more health care workers to refuse to participate in abortions or other procedures on moral or religious grounds. U.S. District Judge Paul A. Engelmayer said the U.S. Health and Human Services Department overstepped its authority and went beyond existing law in issuing the rule. He also said that the measure could be costly, burdensome and damaging to emergency care and that the whole rationale for the rule was based on a lie. He said the department's claim that there was a significant increase in complaints about workers being forced to violate their conscience was "flatly untrue." The HHS rule, he said, is a classic "solution in search of a problem." An HHS spokeswoman had no comment. Nineteen states, the District of Columbia, three local governments, health organizations and others had sued to block the rule from taking effect Nov. 22, arguing that it would be discriminatory and would interfere with people's access to health care. "Today, the Trump administration has been blocked from providing legal cover for discrimination," said Alexis McGill Johnson, acting president of Planned Parenthood. "As the federal district court made clear, the administration acted outside its authority and made false claims to try to justify this rule." Complete article here: Judge strikes down new Trump rule on religious objections
|
|
OldCoyote
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:34:48 GMT -5
Posts: 13,449
|
Post by OldCoyote on Nov 6, 2019 21:55:57 GMT -5
I guess if you don't like the way that the Catholics run their hospitals,,
Run right build your own,, then you can make up your own rules!
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,393
|
Post by thyme4change on Nov 6, 2019 22:05:14 GMT -5
I guess if you don't like the way that the Catholics run their hospitals,,
Run right build your own,, then you can make up your own rules!
Yup. That is how the healthcare industry works.
|
|