Clues That You're About to be Fired

[cytoglycerine]

Greetings All,


I have a friend who believes, for various different reasons, that she may be fired or "let go" from her current job in the very near future. She has had a lot of job dissatisfaction recently, and since she expressed these concerns to her boss about a month ago in an attempt to find a solution, things have gone seriously downhill, and she believes she may be out the door at any second.


The whole thing has left me wondering - what sort of clues do management and employers generally give when they're about to fire someone? What sort of things have you seen in your time - or had happen to you? What sort of things do you think are just "Red Herrings" and nothing to worry about?


Thanks for the comments! ;D

[Deleted]

From what I've read: people avoid you. You're left out of meetings that you would ordinarily have been invited to. You have less work to do but even if you let people know or make suggestions about what else you could take on, no one is interested.

In my own case, I was set up. They rotated me into another related area, which was fine with me- I looked forward to learning new things. In the process, of course, I had to hand over all my files on my old work, document what I did, delegate it out, etc. Perfectly normal under the circumstances.

Then they told me that they'd determined that I didn't have the appropriate background for the new job (how could they tell after a couple of weeks?) and the old job had been eliminated, so I was being let go.

[jeffreymo]

Most of the "out of the blue" terminations I've seen have been the result of an employee being dishonest or violating company policy. If it's something your friend has a hunch on, I'd expect that he or she has been reprimanded more than once for poor job performance, and that the discussion was fully documented and placed in their employment file with HR.
Everything is being documented in advance of one of these types of firings. Most companies want to CYA to avoid wrongful termination settlements (usually Firings changed to severanced layoffs) and unemployment claims.

If it's just the fact that the manager doesn't want them around, they lay a person off with no notice and provide them a severance.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I agree with Athena people start to avoid you. When it happened to me everyone stopped talking to me for fear of getting into trouble.

I noticed my boss and her cronie talking to my co-workers but would never talk to me. With a little bit of prying I found out that they were mining my co-workers for dirt.

I also agree with Athena that you start having less and less work to do, you may also notice that yoru co-workers are suddenly a lot more busy and it appears they are busy doing things YOU used to do.

[Small Biz Owner]

How do I count the ways? Show up late, don't show up at all, have a continual bad attitude, disappear for hours on end, call in sick every Friday or Monday, or both, take 90 minutes for your 1 hr lunch, take 1 hr for your 30 minute break, put everything off until the last minute, then make excuses why it is all overdue. I have a lot more.

[cytoglycerine]

Apr 7, 2011 10:54:58 GMT -5 jeffreymo said:

If it's something your friend has a hunch on, I'd expect that he or she has been reprimanded more than once for poor job performance, and that the discussion was fully documented and placed in their employment file with HR.

Definitely possible - The only thing I know for sure that she got documented for was being late (constantly), but the outcome of that was that they permanently shifted her hours to a later shift, and she hasn't been late for work since then.

Apr 7, 2011 10:52:39 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

In my own case, I was set up. They rotated me into another related area, which was fine with me- I looked forward to learning new things. In the process, of course, I had to hand over all my files on my old work, document what I did, delegate it out, etc. Perfectly normal under the circumstances.

Then they told me that they'd determined that I didn't have the appropriate background for the new job (how could they tell after a couple of weeks?) and the old job had been eliminated, so I was being let go.

Wow, that's pretty sleazy! Did you have any legal recourse in that situation, or were you totally SOL?

[Deleted]

Apr 7, 2011 11:09:00 GMT -5 @cytoglycerine said:

Wow, that's pretty sleazy! Did you have any legal recourse in that situation, or were you totally SOL?

I got almost 6 months of severance and was in a new job in something like 3 weeks. I'm also in a small field and even though it was sleazy, a lawsuit would have labeled me a troublemaker. The guy who fired me hadn't been there that long himself- not his doing, really. He lasted less than a year before he was canned, and later the guy who canned HIM (CFO) was thrown out.

I know that I tend to be too easygoing when crap is thrown at me, but in this case it probably worked to the long-term advantage of my career.

[Deleted]

What is "wrongful termination"? People are always critical of teachers having "tenure," which simply means that they have to show cause in order to terminate you. The administration has to have a paper trail.

The alternative is an "at will" employee. If the employer doesn't want you to work any more, you don't work. If there is cause, then they can fight unemployment. But they don't have to show cause. They just can't discriminate. (ETA: teachers are "at will" for only three years; then they are tenured.)

So what is "wrongful termination"? Athena, how could you possibly have sued for anything other than unemployment? How did you qualify for severance?

It seems that on some level, you guys may have a "better" system than tenure. But I still think that an employer should have to show cause or do a layoff.

[startsmart]

My warning was seeing three people leave the office with boxes, announcing on their way out downsizing was happening. Then I got called to the conference room.

Interesting part was I worked in two departments and had more productive output than anyone in our accounting group of 3. My other manager was P I S S E D that they let me go and told me later they basically kept one person in accounting because she had a kid, I did not.

The only other warning sign was the boss' daughter who was lazy an useless was even more useless in the days leading up to it. She had advanced notice of her layoff so she was later than usual, took 2 hour lunches, continued to watch movies on her computer without pretending to code invoices. And tied up the IT department for about 6 hours making them transfer her non work files off the work computer for her.

It worked out in the end. Had another full time job within 10 business days, got severance and a year later took the leap to working for myself and never dealing with bs in an office setting again. There's still bs in the virtual world but at least I can roll my eyes and curse in my home office without risk of being seen

[Deleted]

Apr 7, 2011 11:43:27 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

So what is "wrongful termination"? Athena, how could you possibly have sued for anything other than unemployment? How did you qualify for severance?

You may be right that I had no legal basis for a suit, although I was over 40 and female so maybe I could have scared them a little with the right lawyer. The real issue was that a couple of highly-placed people whose staff accountants gave me crap data put me on their hit list because instead of pushing the crap data back at them I tried to do reasonable estimates of our liabilities. Of course they were wrong and of course the "surprise" was always in the wrong direction. (I had great credibility with other people at the same rank, who had competent accountants working for them.) I could have used better coaching from my previous manager but it didn't happen.

The severance was just what they paid according to company policy, based on the number of years I'd been there. I was probably "entitled" to unemployment (ooh, there's that word again) but didn't bother filing- I was pretty sure I'd have another job again soon based on the interviews I had set up via recruiters and I was right.

[cytoglycerine]

A few of you have mentioned how employers tend to scale back on your responsibilities if you're about to be let go...Do they ever do it the other way around? Do they ever pile on the work?? My friend says she's always being slammed with more and more responsibilities, which is part of the reason why she talked to her boss about her job dissatisfaction in the first place.

[Deleted]

Apr 7, 2011 12:19:46 GMT -5 @cytoglycerine said:

Do they ever do it the other way around? Do they ever pile on the work??

Yes, that's certainly another tactic- give you more work than you can possibly handle. If they're lucky, you quit in frustration and they don't even have to fire you and pay unemployment.

[Cass]

Apr 7, 2011 12:19:46 GMT -5 @cytoglycerine said:

A few of you have mentioned how employers tend to scale back on your responsibilities if you're about to be let go...Do they ever do it the other way around? Do they ever pile on the work?? My friend says she's always being slammed with more and more responsibilities, which is part of the reason why she talked to her boss about her job dissatisfaction in the first place.

This was me. I had been there the longest of all employees (top of the pay scale) and our new manager had an entirely different set of expectations for me than the other staff. Far more responsibilities were heaped upon me and I was expected to come in whenever the phone rang on my days off. If I took issue with any of it I was labeled uncooperative. At the end of it it was a stand off to see who pulled the trigger first- I couldn't stand to work for that woman a day longer. Luckily she did and I got EI.

[Tiny]

Depends on WHY you are getting more work/responsibilities:
1.) is it because other workers have been let go? If the company is downsizing it can be pretty obvious YOUR own job may be in danger. There are very few people who are crucial to a work environment. Everyone is replaceable or can be done without. Don't delude yourself into thinking you'll have a job...
2.) Is the additional work/responsibilites - more busy work or stuff that's not really meaningful to the day to day functioning of the company? You have to realize that generally only 20% of the 'work' to be done is what actually keeps everything running. The other 80% can slip or simply not ever get done. If you are suddenly being pressured to do or saddled with the less important 80% of work... it's definitely a red flag that somethings up...

Of course, if you are the employee who hasn't figured out the 20% that's most important and you spend all your work time doing the 80% instead... and you're suddenly being pressured to actually DO the 20% stuff - it's definitely a red flag... maybe a heads up from a manager who likes you and wants to help keep you employeed.... this happened to a dear friend - she wrapped herself in doing the 80% of work and then resisted like a stubborn mule when her manager started pressuring her to do the 20% of important work. She couldn't do ALL the work and she couldn't let go (Not do a perfect job) of the meaningless work and so didn't do a very good job on the more important work. You're not a vary valuable employee if you can't do/or get done the important part of your job (and not ALL parts are equally important).

[busymom]

If there have been no layoffs & they keep adding more & more work for you to do, that's a definite red flag, especially if the boss complains that you're not finishing projects "in the allotted time" and if the boss is never satisfied, even if you work 60, 70 hours, etc.

If your friend hasn't updated her resume, it might be a good time to do it.

[dragonfly7]

When DH was fired from his PT position, our manager suddenly ramped up recommending places he could substitute teach, tutor, etc. A VP from corporate we had never met flew down the next day, handed him a letter telling him his position was terminated, and told him to immediately leave. They refused to tell us why.

[ziyia]

I had a colleague who was let go during a downsizing last year. His first clue that he was on the list was when his email account suddenly stopped working. He was called into the HR manager's office an hour or so later.

[Deleted]

Story with a happy ending, which I heard second-hand: employee of our company unexpectedly got a Meeting Notice for a meeting with his boss the next day. (These are sent through our Lotus Notes e-mail so they can be put into your Calendar if you accept.) We were going through a well-publicized 10% staff reduction. He called in sick. The day the meeting was to be held, another person in that department resigned. The meeting the first guy had with his boss got cancelled. He's still working here. He figures he dodged a bullet by calling in sick and then having someone else resign, so the company still needed him.

[thyme4change]

What is "wrongful termination"?

A huge company here in town lost a lawsuit for wrongful termination. They had habitually canned older workers at a disproportionate rate. They were found guilty of age discrimination, and had to pay out quite a bit of money.

My husband won a wrongful termination case against a girl who got fired after she refused to sleep with the boss.

[Deleted]

My husband won a wrongful termination case against a girl who got fired after she refused to sleep with the boss.

Um, your DH was arguing that she should be fired after she refused to sleep with the boss?

[TD2K]

When you can't log on in the morning. This happened to a friend of mine. He came in to work one morning and couldn't log on. Went down to see IT, they called up his account and said "umm, you need to talk to your supervisor". Turns out he had 'forgotten' to tell him he was going to be let go.

[wvugurl26]

At a company I temped for twice it was not uncommon for upper level managers and above to come and find their office door was locked and they couldn't get in.

As for me well by the time I put the pieces together it was way too late. I had no writeups, warnings, nothing just gone. I had thought some things were off in that week but again too late to head it off. I got paid for the rest of that month (let go near month end) and the following month and my health insurance was kept for the following month as well. Was told they wouldn't fight an unemployment claim and when I filed months later they didn't.

Partner in charge said he'd write me recommendation letters or anything I needed. Never took him up on that, did have him sign off on my experience when I passed the cpa exam and applied for my license.

All in all it sucks that I have to say that I was fired and that it took me so long to find a new career type job. On the other hand, I was hating having to go to that job every day. There wasn't a lot of training or guidance and I feel like I was set up to fail. I just don't see how you can expect a new graduate with no prior experience, no internships, nothing to be doing a complete review for a decently sized company within a year with no training.

Things that set off warning bells for me: new staff member hired to replace guy who quit during tax season and he and other staff guy were buddy buddy and going to lunch almost every day, other staff guy took two associates from another partner to an audit instead of taking me and one of them, and we were scheduled to be at a client's the following week and we always left on a Sunday. When I asked about travel arrangements the last day we were together at a training, I was told we all had cell phones and those details would be worked out later.

Come to find out they had been planning to fire me but wanted me to do the training we had that week first. So I got to plan meals and stuff for this training and run all that stuff. And I got to pack up all the files for the travel to the client's. After that Friday rolls around and I'm fired. Yeah I was p!ssed off for awhile about that whole mess.

[Phoenix84]

I was fired from my job last year (ultimately unjustly and I won a ensuing court case, but that's a different story).

Looking back, things did happen fairly suddenly. The first (and biggest) indiciation was being blindsided by a very negative mid term review. In said review, my boss had nothing good to say about me and even called me names. I had gotten a satisfactory 2009 annual review so I was totally dumbfounded.

Another indiciation was they stopped sending me places on travel and stopped sending me work. In March 2010 they obviously cared enough to send me to expensive training, but after that they wouldn't let me use it or send me anywhere. They started to slow down in giving me deadlines and projects.

A further indication is when they started having someone else take over some of my duties. And of course the biggie when they outright said I need to train said person in my job. Obviously they needed me enough to run a program since I was the only one who knew how to do it, but I wasn't good enough to be kept.

I also just had a "gut feeling" management was having closed door meetings about me.

All in all, it wasn't totally surprising when it happened.

[Phoenix84]

"What is "wrongful termination"? People are always critical of teachers having "tenure," which simply means that they have to show cause in order to terminate you. The administration has to have a paper trail."

I work for the federal government. In my case, "wrongful termination" was bsed on the fact they tried to terminate me based on the fact that I had been in the job for less than 1 year, and thus was on probation. The problem was it's (very clearly) written into federal law the terms and conditions of probation for federal employees, and I wasn't a probationary employee based on previous federal service. They could have still tried to get rid of me as a non probation employee, but then they couldn't just blindside me 1 week in advance. They would have to put me on offical notice, put me on a performance plan with goals to meet and so on. The difference is they need to provide cause and it puts the burden of proof on the employer. In my court ruling, the judge even went as far as to say they (the government) violated my constiutional rights for due process, since it was all so sudden and they never gave me a chance to defend myself.

As far as being labled a troublemaker for filing with the courts, it hasn't happened. The court ruling had me re instated in a manner such that my record was cleared. After getting my old job back I got the Hell out of Dodge while I could and didn't look back. I was "offically" never terminated my employer wasn't about to start badmouthing me to potential employers since they wanted me gone from the beginning.

[workpublic]

out of the blue on the last day of the 3rd quarter I was summoned to an empty office in our Danbury facility. My boss from NJ was sitting there. It took about a minute to sink in. My 3 year contract to perm position was eliminated after a year and a half due to budget cuts. My local boss(an employee who had gone through his 3 year contract to perm) is still there, literally on the verge of a breakdown or heart attack he is so stressed from covering both positions.

[thyme4change]

Um, your DH was arguing that she should be fired after she refused to sleep with the boss?

Oops - LOL. Bad wording. My husband represented the woman.

[shanendoah]

A good friend worked a tech support type job. The only people in the department were he and his boss (with NO plans to expand). One day his boss left early and forwarded his phone to my friend. My friend then got a phone call from somone with questions about an ad in the paper for the tech support job.
A few months later when my friend went out on medical leave for gall bladder surgery, he was called the day before he was supposed to return and told he could pick up his things at the front desk.

[Deleted]

shanendoah's story reminded me of the time I got a phone call from a recruiter lookimg for a Chief Actuary at a nearby company. I asked what happened to their current Chief Actuary, whom I knew. (Let's call her Jane.) "She's still there. She doesn't know they're replacing her." Yeah, like I'd want to interview for a company like that.

Later I saw Jane at a meeting. We had a pleasant conversation but I decided not to say anything about it. A month later, though, a good friend of mine at that company called and asked me if I'd heard any rumors that they were looking to replace Jane. Having been asked directly, I told the truth. And that's how Jane found she was on her way out.

[robbase]

Clues That You're About to be Fired

Donald Trump walks into the room

[cytoglycerine]

Apr 9, 2011 21:55:09 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Actually, one clue is when the mailroom guy warns you.

True story. My sister once worked for a well-known insurance company. This insurance company had a party with a drawing for tickets to the US Open Tennis Tournament in Queens as a prize. My sister said to the mailroom guy, "I'd love to win that."

He replied, "Trust me. Those are tickets you don't want to get."

She found out why when each of the people who won the tickets was told to pick them up after the party. All of the "lucky" recipients were handed the tickets---and a pink slip as well.

Nice severance package