Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 1, 2019 11:38:18 GMT -5
Ex-cop who killed neighbor in his own home found guilty of murderEx-Dallas police officer Amber Guyger was just found guilty of murder for the killing of Botham Jean, her unarmed, 26-year-old black neighbor. The murder conviction carries a sentence of up to life in prison. Ex-cop who killed neighbor in his own home found guilty of murderThe jury didn't believe her Castle Doctrine defense.
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justme
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Post by justme on Oct 1, 2019 12:35:32 GMT -5
I'm a little surprised (see Texas), but glad.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 1, 2019 12:38:34 GMT -5
that sounds like the appropriate verdict.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Oct 1, 2019 13:40:53 GMT -5
Remind me again why it's so important for everyone to walk around with a gun at all times? If she didn't have a gun, she would have run screaming from the apartment, and they all could have had a good laugh about how she'd gone into the wrong place. Maybe it would be a 'meet cute' incident, and they could have become friends, or better than friends.
Now - just tragedy all around - and this was a well trained cop who supposedly knew how to handle fire arms, not Jim Bob who lives next door to me and gets drunk and shoots at squirrels off his back deck on the weekends.
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justme
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Post by justme on Oct 1, 2019 13:49:15 GMT -5
Interesting watch. I was astonished at the conflict deescalation training vs weapons training time.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 1, 2019 14:02:31 GMT -5
I haven't really followed this story. so I'm making some basic assumptions in my pondering:
I'm still pondering the idea that one person's apartment key opens up another person's appartment - I get how all the doors in a hallway look the same so a mistake could be made. OK, I guess there's the possibility that everyone felt so safe they never locked their doors...
But, the biggest ponder is how exactly does one mistake a neighbor's furnishings for one's own? I get that all the doors in the hall way look the same, and I get that the apartment floor plans mostly all the same. But really, walking into someone else apartment and It doesn't smell different? The furniture and stuff on the walls didn't tip you off that something wasn't right? Not to mention I find it hard to believe one doesn't turn on a light when walking into their dark abode. How high/inebriated was she?? (sorry, I mostly witness drunk/high people make really bad decisions and who espouse really stupid points of view (um, yes, the alcohol does make you visibly drunk/stupid not smarter, better looking, more trust worthy).
That said, even before I found out she shot and killed a black guy - I thought it was an appropriate judgement.
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justme
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Post by justme on Oct 1, 2019 14:11:27 GMT -5
I believe one of the prosecution's arguments was that their doormats were very distinctly different.
I've seen a lot of comments on social media regarding the fact that the police did not drug or alcohol test her. I don't see why that's not like automatic? Hell, my employee handbook says they can test me after any incident at work - why don't police handbooks state that it'll happen after any incident at work or with any work-issued equipment. Fire your police weapon? Here's your drug and alcohol test.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 1, 2019 16:31:40 GMT -5
I haven't really followed this story. so I'm making some basic assumptions in my pondering: I'm still pondering the idea that one person's apartment key opens up another person's appartment - I get how all the doors in a hallway look the same so a mistake could be made. OK, I guess there's the possibility that everyone felt so safe they never locked their doors... But, the biggest ponder is how exactly does one mistake a neighbor's furnishings for one's own? I get that all the doors in the hall way look the same, and I get that the apartment floor plans mostly all the same. But really, walking into someone else apartment and It doesn't smell different? The furniture and stuff on the walls didn't tip you off that something wasn't right? Not to mention I find it hard to believe one doesn't turn on a light when walking into their dark abode. How high/inebriated was she?? (sorry, I mostly witness drunk/high people make really bad decisions and who espouse really stupid points of view (um, yes, the alcohol does make you visibly drunk/stupid not smarter, better looking, more trust worthy). That said, even before I found out she shot and killed a black guy - I thought it was an appropriate judgement. The lock and doorknob were not functioning properly, so the door pushed open. According to her, she thought someone had broken in and broken the doorknob. The lights were off. That said, she should have seen something - like the exterior. It seems like her attitude afterwards was a factor.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 1, 2019 17:29:01 GMT -5
Ex-cop who killed neighbor in his own home found guilty of murderEx-Dallas police officer Amber Guyger was just found guilty of murder for the killing of Botham Jean, her unarmed, 26-year-old black neighbor. The murder conviction carries a sentence of up to life in prison. Ex-cop who killed neighbor in his own home found guilty of murderThe jury didn't believe her Castle Doctrine defense. Castle doctrine was a horseshit defense. The fact is that while you would not have a duty to retreat in your own home-- or what she thought was her own home-- she wasn't in her own home before learning or at least suspecting there was an "intruder". She knew there was someone inside and she chose to enter and engage. The man she shot posed no threat- it wasn't dark. He was sitting on the couch eating ice cream. She deserves a lengthy prison sentence. What I wonder about in this case is why she was granted access to someone else's unit- and where the building management liability is on this?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 1, 2019 17:31:02 GMT -5
Ex-cop who killed neighbor in his own home found guilty of murderEx-Dallas police officer Amber Guyger was just found guilty of murder for the killing of Botham Jean, her unarmed, 26-year-old black neighbor. The murder conviction carries a sentence of up to life in prison. Ex-cop who killed neighbor in his own home found guilty of murderThe jury didn't believe her Castle Doctrine defense. Castle doctrine was a horseshit defense. The fact is that while you would not have a duty to retreat in your own home-- or what she thought was her own home-- she wasn't in her own home before learning or at least suspecting there was an "intruder". She knew there was someone inside and she chose to enter and engage. The man she shot posed no threat- it wasn't dark. He was sitting on the couch eating ice cream. She deserves a lengthy prison sentence. What I wonder about in this case is why she was granted access to someone else's unit- and where the building management liability is on this? The dead man's front door was not securely closed. No key necessary to enter.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 18:05:21 GMT -5
I haven't really followed this story. so I'm making some basic assumptions in my pondering: I'm still pondering the idea that one person's apartment key opens up another person's appartment - I get how all the doors in a hallway look the same so a mistake could be made. OK, I guess there's the possibility that everyone felt so safe they never locked their doors... But, the biggest ponder is how exactly does one mistake a neighbor's furnishings for one's own? I get that all the doors in the hall way look the same, and I get that the apartment floor plans mostly all the same. But really, walking into someone else apartment and It doesn't smell different? The furniture and stuff on the walls didn't tip you off that something wasn't right? Not to mention I find it hard to believe one doesn't turn on a light when walking into their dark abode. How high/inebriated was she?? (sorry, I mostly witness drunk/high people make really bad decisions and who espouse really stupid points of view (um, yes, the alcohol does make you visibly drunk/stupid not smarter, better looking, more trust worthy). That said, even before I found out she shot and killed a black guy - I thought it was an appropriate judgement. Just yesterday, DBF and I were walking to our car in a shopping center and there was a couple maybe in their early to mid 60’s at our car trying to get in. They were confused because the door wouldn’t open when they touched the handle. DBF unlocked the door with his key fob, just to see what they would do. The gentleman opened the door and looked even more confused. The lady opened the passenger door and stopped in her tracks, looking confused. Then they spotted us watching them and we all had a good laugh. They were actually parked next to us, and the lady explained they had just rented “their” car that morning. Since it was the same color as ours, and unfamiliar to them, it was a reasonable explanation and an honest mistake, and like I said, we all laughed about it. So, my point is that I’ve never bought the excuse that she didn’t realize it wasn’t her apartment. The only way I can see that as a possibility is if she was drunk or high. Surely they didn’t have the same furniture positioned exactly the same way, their homes probably didn’t even smell the same. Doesn’t “home” feel familiar as soon as you walk in the door? Many years ago, I came home from work and someone had broken into my house while I was at work, I knew something wasn’t right as soon as I walked in, even though nothing was missing from the room where the door was. It didn’t smell right. It smelled like bug spray and I hadn’t sprayed any. But the intruders did, in my dog’s face even though she was confined. " src="http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/angry2.png"> Closed doors that I hadn’t left closed were my next clue that sent me running back outside. So, I noticed things amiss as soon as I walked into my home (that was really MINE) and this couple yesterday could tell that the interior of the car they were trying to get into wasn’t the same as the one they’d rented just a few hours earlier, but a POLICE OFFICER can’t tell her own home from someone else’s?! And the castle doctrine was suppose to make it acceptable that she killed a man that was in his own home, minding his own damn business? BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! The thought of her going free anytime soon makes me SO angry. I’m glad she was found guilty. And I hope her sentencing was appropriate instead of a slap on the wrist. I haven’t followed the news today to find out, so idk.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 1, 2019 18:10:33 GMT -5
I haven't really followed this story. so I'm making some basic assumptions in my pondering: I'm still pondering the idea that one person's apartment key opens up another person's appartment - I get how all the doors in a hallway look the same so a mistake could be made. OK, I guess there's the possibility that everyone felt so safe they never locked their doors... But, the biggest ponder is how exactly does one mistake a neighbor's furnishings for one's own? I get that all the doors in the hall way look the same, and I get that the apartment floor plans mostly all the same. But really, walking into someone else apartment and It doesn't smell different? The furniture and stuff on the walls didn't tip you off that something wasn't right? Not to mention I find it hard to believe one doesn't turn on a light when walking into their dark abode. How high/inebriated was she?? (sorry, I mostly witness drunk/high people make really bad decisions and who espouse really stupid points of view (um, yes, the alcohol does make you visibly drunk/stupid not smarter, better looking, more trust worthy). That said, even before I found out she shot and killed a black guy - I thought it was an appropriate judgement. Just yesterday, DBF and I were walking to our car in a shopping center and there was a couple maybe in their early to mid 60’s at our car trying to get in. They were confused because the door wouldn’t open when they touched the handle. DBF unlocked the door with his key fob, just to see what they would do. The gentleman opened the door and looked even more confused. The lady opened the passenger door and stopped in her tracks, looking confused. Then they spotted us watching them and we all had a good laugh. They were actually parked next to us, and the lady explained they had just rented “their” car that morning. Since it was the same color as ours, and unfamiliar to them, it was a reasonable explanation and an honest mistake, and like I said, we all laughed about it. So, my point is that I’ve never bought the excuse that she didn’t realize it wasn’t her apartment. The only way I can see that as a possibility is if she was drunk or high. Surely they didn’t have the same furniture positioned exactly the same way, their homes probably didn’t even smell the same. Doesn’t “home” feel familiar as soon as you walk in the door? Many years ago, I came home from work and someone had broken into my house while I was at work, I knew something wasn’t right as soon as I walked in, even though nothing was missing from the room where the door was. It didn’t smell right. It smelled like bug spray and I hadn’t sprayed any. But the intruders did, in my dog’s face even though she was confined. " src="http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/angry2.png"> Closed doors that I hadn’t left closed were my next clue that sent me running back outside. So, I noticed things amiss as soon as I walked into my home (that was really MINE) and this couple yesterday could tell that the interior of the car they were trying to get into wasn’t the same as the one they’d rented just a few hours earlier, but a POLICE OFFICER can’t tell her own home from someone else’s?! And the castle doctrine was suppose to make it acceptable that she killed a man that was in his own home, minding his own damn business? BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! The thought of her going free anytime soon makes me SO angry. I’m glad she was found guilty. And I hope her sentencing was appropriate instead of a slap on the wrist. I haven’t followed the news today to find out, so idk. Her sentencing phase began this afternoon. Ended for the day and will resume tomorrow morning.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 1, 2019 20:43:52 GMT -5
She also didn't follow her police training / policy.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Oct 2, 2019 17:01:10 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 2, 2019 17:56:59 GMT -5
I do not know in cases like this what is "appropriate" punishment. I don't think she is a danger to society who needs to be locked away forever. I don't think a longer sentence would send a significant message to others to not engage in this type of behavior. Just not sure what would be gained by it being longer.
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justme
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Post by justme on Oct 2, 2019 18:18:45 GMT -5
I do not know in cases like this what is "appropriate" punishment. I don't think she is a danger to society who needs to be locked away forever. I don't think a longer sentence would send a significant message to others to not engage in this type of behavior. Just not sure what would be gained by it being longer. I kinda liked John legend's reaction to the felicity Huffman sentencing. Don't be mad that she got so little time for a non violent crime, be mad that those that don't look like her got so much. (Paraphrasing cuz I'm too lazy to Google it, but that's the first gist)
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irishpad
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Post by irishpad on Oct 2, 2019 20:51:14 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 2, 2019 21:20:40 GMT -5
Just as the two start hugging, in the upper right hand corner of the screen, you can see the judge wiping her own eyes.
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irishpad
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Post by irishpad on Oct 2, 2019 21:27:06 GMT -5
Tenn, thanks for pointing that out, I didn't notice that the first time
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Oct 2, 2019 21:47:29 GMT -5
Remind me again why it's so important for everyone to walk around with a gun at all times? If she didn't have a gun, she would have run screaming from the apartment, and they all could have had a good laugh about how she'd gone into the wrong place. Maybe it would be a 'meet cute' incident, and they could have become friends, or better than friends.
Now - just tragedy all around - and this was a well trained cop who supposedly knew how to handle fire arms, not Jim Bob who lives next door to me and gets drunk and shoots at squirrels off his back deck on the weekends.
This was a gun happy shoot them up cop!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Oct 2, 2019 21:49:07 GMT -5
I believe one of the prosecution's arguments was that their doormats were very distinctly different. I've seen a lot of comments on social media regarding the fact that the police did not drug or alcohol test her. I don't see why that's not like automatic? Hell, my employee handbook says they can test me after any incident at work - why don't police handbooks state that it'll happen after any incident at work or with any work-issued equipment. Fire your police weapon? Here's your drug and alcohol test. Police protect police!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Oct 2, 2019 21:53:53 GMT -5
Juries have real trouble convicting a police officer, no matter how bad it was! I am surprised she got 10 years.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 3, 2019 7:09:32 GMT -5
Castle doctrine was a horseshit defense. The fact is that while you would not have a duty to retreat in your own home-- or what she thought was her own home-- she wasn't in her own home before learning or at least suspecting there was an "intruder". She knew there was someone inside and she chose to enter and engage. The man she shot posed no threat- it wasn't dark. He was sitting on the couch eating ice cream. She deserves a lengthy prison sentence. What I wonder about in this case is why she was granted access to someone else's unit- and where the building management liability is on this? The dead man's front door was not securely closed. No key necessary to enter. I read that- however, it doesn't change the fact that she knew someone was in, in her mind- her unit, and rather than retreat and call 911 she chose to enter and engage. It was poor judgment. If I think someone is in my house- I'm not going in. I don't know how many there are, where they are positioned, whether or not they're armed- it's just a bad call all-around. And I don't think you're justified in shooting someone-- and no one is more liberal in their opinion of who can legitimately be shot than me-- because you're a flake. You don't get to whoopsie-daisy shoot your neighbor. Had we let this slide, we would have a precedent for the "whoops, wrong house" defense forever. Not something I want to see.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 3, 2019 7:09:44 GMT -5
She got 10 years, btw.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 3, 2019 7:13:12 GMT -5
Juries have real trouble convicting a police officer, no matter how bad it was! I am surprised she got 10 years.
She won't do 5 of it.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Oct 3, 2019 8:33:30 GMT -5
Juries have real trouble convicting a police officer, no matter how bad it was! I am surprised she got 10 years.
She won't do 5 of it. Think you are right,, did you see where the judge gave her a bible, after all of this?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2019 8:40:13 GMT -5
I thought given the elements of the crime manslaughter and 10 years was appropriate.
She was completely negligent leading to a horrible mistake, anyone suggesting she wanted or planned this has nothing to base that off of.
I really feel for Bothams family, I could never be so forgiving.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 3, 2019 9:39:31 GMT -5
The dead man's front door was not securely closed. No key necessary to enter. I read that- however, it doesn't change the fact that she knew someone was in, in her mind- her unit, and rather than retreat and call 911 she chose to enter and engage. It was poor judgment. If I think someone is in my house- I'm not going in. I don't know how many there are, where they are positioned, whether or not they're armed- it's just a bad call all-around. And I don't think you're justified in shooting someone-- and no one is more liberal in their opinion of who can legitimately be shot than me-- because you're a flake. You don't get to whoopsie-daisy shoot your neighbor. Had we let this slide, we would have a precedent for the "whoops, wrong house" defense forever. Not something I want to see. I agree she should not have entered the apartment if she thought someone might have been inside, or minimally, the door was open to what she thought was her apartment. She should have followed the advice she and other police give civilians-call the police for assistance if 'you' think something is amiss.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 3, 2019 9:41:10 GMT -5
Think you are right,, did you see where the judge gave her a bible, after all of this? Was the judge giving Guyger a bible wrong? Please clarify your statement.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 3, 2019 9:45:04 GMT -5
Think you are right,, did you see where the judge gave her a bible, after all of this? Was the judge giving Guyger a bible wrong? Please clarify your statement. Church and state?
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